View Full Version : LMT Patent on Monolithic Rails (MEGA Halts Production)
saddlerocker
07-18-12, 21:18
Apparently LMT was granted the patent for the monolithic rail platform.
MEGA Arms has stated they will stop producing their monolithic uppers rather than dealing with litigation.
Will be interesting to see what other companies like Vltor/Colt ect... will do.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/07/18/mega-arms-halts-sale-of-monolithic-uppers/
Thats pretty far reaching! I wonder if this will affect commercial businesses marketing MRP barrel conversions too.
I doubt Vltor will be affected. It is a two piece design and they clearly call it polylithic.
Wow! Glad I already got mine! Patents last 7 years?
Heavy Metal
07-18-12, 21:43
Wow! Glad I already got mine! Patents last 7 years?
17 years and can be extended once IIRC.
ICANHITHIMMAN
07-18-12, 21:54
As long as its not the same design why would it matter? Can u patten an idea?
Very interesting. hmm maybe i'll pick up a 6940 before more legal bs hits other mfgs.
Freedoooom
07-18-12, 21:59
I doubt Vltor will be affected. It is a two piece design and they clearly call it polylithic.
You haven't been paying attention then, Apple apparently patented the hyperlink in 1994 and has gotten products banned cause some old 60 year old senile judge in Texas hasn't a ****ing clue about technology.
MOUNT-N-SLOT
07-18-12, 22:12
As long as its not the same design why would it matter? Can u patten an idea?
What's protected in a Patent is contained in the specific claims. If the idea of the Monolithic Rail can be adequately explained and claimed in the Patent, then you can claim infringement from someone who makes something similar. Patents are like locks... how can you pick them to get your idea launched and not infringe on the Patent.
We have a killer product that's passed field testing, but are waiting to launch until the current company's patent is issued. Thus avoiding the embarrassment of launching, then having to pull the product off the market. IMHO, respecting the term "Patent Pending" is the moral path all businesses should take. Wait until the patent issues, then launch an improved or better, unique device that does not infringe.
MOUNT-N-SLOT
SomeOtherGuy
07-18-12, 22:30
Looking at what was stated in the article:
"In the broadest interpretation of their patent, it covers a monolithic rail platform that has:
a handguard portion adapted to receive the barrel
an upper receiver portion that houses a bolt carrier and is integrally formed with handguard
a coupling at a forward end of the upper receiver, integrated with the handguard portion, that has a releasable clamp to hold the barrel"
I have to wonder if MEGA is being too cautious, or if they have a clamping feature I didn't know about. I can understand how LMT could patent their overall MRP system with the quick-change barrels. I'm skeptical of whether the simple fact of an integrated handguard is patentable, and the description above seems to state that the patent covers a platform that has all three features, not just the monolithic handguard.
Disclaimer: I haven't read the actual patent.
Well, that sucks. I was hoping to pick up a Mega set in the future. As was asked , how will this affect Colt and the others making monolithic uppers. This also explains why the US probably has the the highest number of lawyers in the world...
I doubt Vltor will be affected. It is a two piece design and they clearly call it polylithic.
While Colt's is a one piece design, I think LMT would be hard pressed to bring suit against them as Colt was awarded a patent on their design. You have to believe that the LMT MRP was considered during the patent examination process.
Was the Mega Arms unit ever patented?
everyusernametaken
07-18-12, 22:51
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20060236582.PGNR.
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20060236582.PGNR.
Good grief. That's a long patent.
eternal24k
07-19-12, 08:26
that is unfortunate, MEGA has been producing a high quality product at a decent price point.
You haven't been paying attention then, .
Point to Ponder....
This is a...ummm, less than ideal...method of addressing any other member, but it's especially ill-advised to do this to ANYbody who's screen-name appears in any color other than black.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1948/treeofwoe.png
That's not his peterbug hanging out, is it?
I'm a noob regarding patent system but this seems odd...
well, Colt has its ass covered since the 6940 upper is patented.
...and Mega should be more worried about Colt than LMT since the way the barrel is kept in place on the MRP is way different.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/italianwjt/AR15/USPATENT.jpg
pic not mine, stolen from the Colt forum on TOS
The whole patent process today is a disaster. The patent office seems perfectly happy approving patents that are broad and vague, and then letting various companies work it out in the court system. If anyone really wants to see patent craziness, read up on the state of patents in the tech world.
Damnit MEGA. This is just f**king great. Get your shit together and release whatever it is you have that's supposed to be "better".
I'd really like to see LaRue style upper to rail bolting... I'm going to guess that LaRue has that patented.
SomeOtherGuy
07-19-12, 13:49
The whole patent process today is a disaster. The patent office seems perfectly happy approving patents that are broad and vague, and then letting various companies work it out in the court system. If anyone really wants to see patent craziness, read up on the state of patents in the tech world.
Yes, absolutely.
I skimmed/read the patent and it isn't clear to me exactly what is covered. Part of that may be because I'm not a patent lawyer, and they have their own odd way of doing things.
Colt has its own patent on its monolithic design, but that doesn't automatically mean they are safe - it's not only possible but common for different design elements to be patented by separate parties and both elements are needed to make something workable. Usually the patent holders reach terms, but not always. See the reference above to the disaster in technical stuff - especially for cell phones, routers, and similar networked electronics.
I continue to suspect that the patent only applies to a system with a quick-change barrel design like the MRP, and in that case it isn't obvious why MEGA would be in any trouble. But I don't know and I could easily be wrong.
Dammit LMT!!! I mean, the more the merrier..... Right?
everyusernametaken
07-19-12, 20:39
You thought that was bad, here's more:
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20110005384.PGNR.
FWIW if you install a TIFF viewer plugin and click on the "images" link, there are some very detailed and high resolution engineering drawings bundled with each of these patents.
I cant seem to get worked up that one company is copying another's improvement on a rifle that all parties are copying anyway.
There is a lot of ways they (mega) CAN improve that "type" of system like adding to it as long as they take it back to the drawing board-then slap a patent on it.There's more that one way to skin a cat!
The bottom line is that a company will use any means possible to block competition. LMT has the resources to block a smaller player like Mega. So of course they will do it.
justin_247
07-22-12, 12:49
I'm willing to bet that Mega's mono uppers weren't selling so well anyways...
sinlessorrow
07-22-12, 13:09
did they really try to patent the BCG for the AR-15 in the patent?
also isnt colts 6940 Mono upper already patented? how does that work with LMT then?
midSCarolina
07-23-12, 09:20
Would VLTOR really have a problems since their monolithic platform since their "monolithic" isn't really monolithic. They refer to it as polylithic so would this be covered under LMT's patent?
Also... I rather LMT have it than anyone else. The MRP series is 100% badass but I do wish that Karl Lewis would license other companies to produce it.
Without LMT's massive in house capabilities, second to none test/proof/firing procedures, and most importantly their impeccable machining abilities....the MRP would be extremely diminished and certainly not the MRP we know of now.
If I were Karl, the only person I would let play is the minds at KAC. If Stoner trusted those guys, Karl should to. LMT and KAC are friends with benefits anyway.
I'm willing to bet that Mega's mono uppers weren't selling so well anyways...
You kidding? MEGA was struggling keeping up with demand on these things.
Heavy Metal
07-23-12, 10:41
Don't forget MGI has a Monolithic Upper too.
lifebreath
07-23-12, 11:03
17 years and can be extended once IIRC.
20 years from the filing date of the earliest patent application for utility patents.
14 years from the grant date for design patents.
Patents cannot generally be extended once granted.
as personally working for Karl Lewis he doesn't screw around especially with patents and money, he will take litigation to the highest level. any platform that is a one piece design he will go after. 2 piece designs shouldn't be affected
sinlessorrow
07-25-12, 21:45
as personally working for Karl Lewis he doesn't screw around especially with patents and money, he will take litigation to the highest level. any platform that is a one piece design he will go after. 2 piece designs shouldn't be affected
I would love to see him go after Colt for their monolithic platform:blink:
sad news, esp since Vltors recent announcement
sinlessorrow
07-25-12, 22:37
sad news, esp since Vltors recent announcement
VLTOR are polylithic so they would not be targeted.
mkmckinley
07-25-12, 22:38
How can you patent something that's essentially just a shape? It's just one piece with no moving parts. I understand how you can patent a method, process, a mechanism or a kind of technology, but if you can patent a monolithic AR-15 upper couldn't you patent like, I don't know, a spoon and sue all the other people that make spoons?
Anyway this is really bad news in my opinion. It will reduce innovation in the industry and consumers will be worse off. I'm sorry to hear about Mega as they're a good company and I hope Vltor isn't affected. LMT's designs do nothing for me so I hope they lose whatever BS lawsuits they decide to pursue.
sinlessorrow
07-25-12, 22:41
How can you patent something that's essentially just a shape? It's just one piece with no moving parts. I understand how you can patent a method, process, a mechanism or a kind of technology, but if you can patent a monolithic AR-15 upper couldn't you patent like, I don't know, a spoon and sue all the other people that make spoons?
Colts 6940 mono upper has a patent on it as well.
VLTOR are polylithic so they would not be targeted.
Not sure what the difference is, but thanks for clarifying!
sinlessorrow
07-25-12, 22:53
Not sure what the difference is, but thanks for clarifying!
it starts its life as a two piece assembly and is then turned into a 1 piece polylithic upper.
I would love to see him go after Colt for their monolithic platform:blink:
since the bottom rail is removable I wonder if it's enough to be considered a 2 piece design.. :confused:
--> ETA: from TOS "We had a LMT rep here at our shop last week. He said Colt's is not an infringement due to the two piece design. Mega is ****ed though..."
if it's true other design like the VLTOR VIS or ArmaLite/OregonAero are safe
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.