Surefire Scout Light LED upgrade? [Archive]

CA_Shooter

07-19-12, 19:52

Picked up a really cheap Scout Light recently. It is in really good shape and working condition but has an incandescant head/bulb (MN03 I was told) assembly. Think this makes it an M600B model?

The output is only 65 lumens from what I read on Surefire's site which seems fine but was wondering if upgrading to an LED head/bulb would be worthwhile. What I am looking for are cost effective options for upgrading to LED if so. I see if necessary I can get replacement MN03's for like $20.

I'm civ not LE/MIL and live in a pretty urbanized area so I dont see myself crawling through the bush taking on baddies. But I agree with many of the SME's that having a light on your longarm is worthwhile even if for just in case.

Thanks!

skatz11

07-19-12, 21:16

nanners83

07-19-12, 23:28

VME and Malkoff head is a good option but it might just be cheaper to get a KX2C head.
They're what the current scout lights use. 200 lumens with the TIR optic. I've come across them for around 100 bucks at a few places.

one

07-20-12, 16:09

KX2C is what I run on mine. It's been a phenomenal performer.

CA_Shooter

07-20-12, 18:57

Thanks for the info.

Saw the Surefire upgrade (cheapest I've seen it is $119 so far) but am looking into the other recommendations to see what is the most cost effective.

The TNVC one looks pretty nice and priced right vs. the SF one.

Checked on the VME/M61 setup but looks like the VME heads are out of stock currently.

Time to do some research/review search on the above to see which may be the better choice.

Thanks again!

uwe1

07-20-12, 23:20

The KX2C appears to be in-stock here:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/fl-sf-acc-ck-kx2c-bk-wh.html

WS6

09-24-12, 18:46

I got in an XP-G2 setup pumping out about 380 lumens...

...and left my KX2C in place. You simply cannot beat the TIR optic with the XR-E pill driven at about 0.8-1.0A for throw. Spill? Sure. But you won't be out-throwing your KX2C very easily by any meaningful margin.

jaxman7

09-24-12, 20:48

If you go for the KX2C post a WTB add on the EE. You may find one quick. There's probably a few guys on here wanting to go to Vampire (KM2) heads and would be willing to sell the KX2C.

-Jax

jonconsiglio

10-10-12, 20:19

I posted this in the other thread and figured it may help here just for reference.

The m600 is getting a bump to 250 lumens while the m300a mini scout is getting a bump to 170 or 200 lumens. In addition, by February there will a 500 lumen scout head available.

It's amazing how far we've come. Not long ago the advertising was "60 lumens of blinding light".

jaxman7

10-10-12, 20:29

I must've missed the part about the 500 lumen scout head. Thanks for that. Was wondering when that was gonna happen. This is another reason I love Defender, LX2, and Scout series of lights. The parts can be swapped out/upgraded. No need to buy an entirely new light. How I wish X300 lights could do this.

And yeh it is amazing how far in such a short time lumen output (in particular smaller size lights) has come.

-Jax

jonconsiglio

10-10-12, 21:00

It was just confirmed a few days ago and I don't think there's been an official announcement yet.

jaxman7

10-10-12, 21:27

Copy that Jon. Thanks again,

-Jax

JBecker 72

10-10-12, 21:49

170-200 lumen M300A you say? Awesome!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

jonconsiglio

10-10-12, 22:22

The 300b mini scout with 200 lumens will be available mid November, as should the m600 with 250 lumens. The 500 lumen m600u will be available in February.

JBecker 72

10-10-12, 22:38

Thanks for the heads up. I was gonna get another M300A, but I'm gonna wait for the new model.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

WS6

10-11-12, 08:35

Thanks for the heads up. I was gonna get another M300A, but I'm gonna wait for the new model.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?332672-SureFire-EB1-Backup-200-Lumen-Flashlight

Surefire has a nasty habit of pushing back deadlines. When it finally does see the market though, it is as advertised, though!

JBecker 72

10-11-12, 10:04

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?332672-SureFire-EB1-Backup-200-Lumen-Flashlight

Surefire has a nasty habit of pushing back deadlines. When it finally does see the market though, it is as advertised, though!

True, I'm curious if this will be like the X300 Ultra. I thought that was gonna be available 6 months ago.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

WS6

10-18-12, 08:39

Is there any hard data on this, or just second hand reports from sf dealers?

jonconsiglio

10-20-12, 18:12

Is there any hard data on this, or just second hand reports from sf dealers?

Hard data that a scout ultra head will be available? It was posted by a Surefire employee and he said it was confirmed, not just a some day type of thing. As to a document, I don't know.

Agile53

10-20-12, 19:05

Hard data that a scout ultra head will be available? It was posted by a Surefire employee and he said it was confirmed, not just a some day type of thing. As to a document, I don't know.

JC knows what he is talking about as we both have the same source on this.

Again hard data no, but our source is a SF rep. we + known SMEs/trainers trust.

WS6

10-20-12, 20:09

JC knows what he is talking about as we both have the same source on this.

Again hard data no, but our source is a SF rep. we + known SMEs/trainers trust.

Gotcha. Well, I hope your source is accurate. That would be a great upgrade. Will the heads be sold separate at the same time, or will all production be going to complete m600's, or will they be dicks about it and make the heads not compatible with previous m600 bodies?

jonconsiglio

10-21-12, 10:32

Gotcha. Well, I hope your source is accurate. That would be a great upgrade. Will the heads be sold separate at the same time, or will all production be going to complete m600's, or will they be dicks about it and make the heads not compatible with previous m600 bodies?

My understanding is the head will be sold separately in February and will be compatible with previous scout models. New production scouts will be the 200 lumen mini scout m300a, the 250 lumen scout m600 (a, b or c, I can't think of the designation right now) and the 500 lumen m600u scout ultra.

I'm pretty sure all heads will be available separately, but the ultra head being sold separately in February was confirmed.

As to Michael and I having the same source, so does Pat Rogers and other guys posting this same info. It was in a thread on Lightfighter where we all first started talking about this stuff.

I'm looking forward to it as well... I need to replace a couple stolen lights (and upper, optics, etc.) so this is needed ASAP for me. I'm thinking in January I'll pick up a 620v then buy the 250 and 500 lumen heads when they're available. Then again, the 250 lumen head may just be a waste of money.

WS6

02-03-13, 02:34

Well, its Feb. And we have none of the above.

jaxman7

02-03-13, 02:48

Well, its Feb. And we have none of the above.

Yep. And I just bought another M600A super cheap hoping for this upgrade soon. :(

-Jax

patriot_man

02-03-13, 05:07

Well, its Feb. And we have none of the above.

I am surprised no one asked for the date of these releases at SHOT. They are all in the catalog but the lingering question is WHEN!? :D

JBecker 72

02-03-13, 10:06

Yep, holding off on buying another M300 at this point because I want the updated version. Such a tease...

WS6

02-03-13, 10:11

Yep, holding off on buying another M300 at this point because I want the updated version. Such a tease...

I just bought one from G&R.

The new M300 is likely as not going to use the same head as the EB1, just with on/off only, and those are 100% compatible with M300a/E1B bodies.

There will be plenty of people who will pay good money for your M300a head (E1B) as Surefire no-longer makes the E1B. A lot of people are mad that the EB1 is "poorly regulated" and begins decreasing significantly in output the second it's turned on. The E1B and M300A are very well regulated, and lose only about 10% output over the first 45 minutes or so of run-time, so having a single-mode E1B head doesn't exactly make you a pariah in the flashlight world. There will be PLENTY of market for it, and who knows when you will get the new M300?

When you can buy the head, just flip the M300a head like we did the KL4 heads for the KX2C. I sold KL4 heads like candy for $85 a pop off of old M600a's in gently-used condition. KX2C heads ran me around $120. Lost $35+S&H. I could live with that. The M300a should be a near identical story. Weapons aren't the only reason people buy lights. The M300a head has value, now, and in the future for sure, with the death of the E1B and the "poor" regulation of the EB1. Lots of flashlight whores are seriously disappointed in the EB1 because of this.

Shao

02-03-13, 10:38

Malkoff drop-in + their VME head is a great setup. TNVC also makes a complete head assembly. No experience with it though.

I bought a used E1b body and put a VME head with M31 drop-in to make a DIY mini scout light. So far I'm pleased with the performance.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

VME and Malkoff head is a good option but it might just be cheaper to get a KX2C head.
They're what the current scout lights use. 200 lumens with the TIR optic. I've come across them for around 100 bucks at a few places.

This - Get a Malkoff and VME head or E2C adapter with any Surefire C/P/G/Z bezel - the KX2C head is a winner for sure, but you can also use the KL4 head from a M600A. Less lumens than a KX2C, but also smaller and cheaper.

Brian Brazier

02-12-13, 14:36

I just picked up a NIB M600A for $180, I will probably just pickup a KX2C head for it since I only use my light for Home Defense and 200 lumens works good for me. I can always add a higher lumen head later if I decide I need it.

JBecker 72

02-12-13, 18:05

Yeah, I got tired of waiting and picked up a second M300A. I figure I will get one of the new heads if and when they become available.

I just picked up a NIB M600A for $180, I will probably just pickup a KX2C head for it since I only use my light for Home Defense and 200 lumens works good for me. I can always add a higher lumen head later if I decide I need it.

I had a M600A for a bit that was near brand new when I got it for $175, and I never used it because I didn't like the beam. I sold it on TOS for $150 but kept the UE07 tailcap and picked up a lightly used M600C model for $175. Wasn't worth it spending the extra money on the KX2C head IMO. Long story short I upgraded for $25 rather than $100+.

Shao

02-12-13, 19:34

Guys... for roughly the same price as a M300A, you can build a superior VTAC/Surefire clone using a Malkoff that will put out more than double the lumens in the same size package. I just ordered this last night for my BCM middy:

Gear sector offset E series mount: $63
Malkoff M31 + VME head: $104
Scout tailcap: $30
E2b body: $50

Total cost: $247

It's more than twice as bright as the M300A, has an offset mount included, same Surefire lifetime warranty (and Malkoff too), just as bombproof (if not moreso), has the ability to upgrade easily (when Gene comes out with a new module, but can also use any P60 style drop in), uses newer technology, weighs about the same, and can be used easily as a hand-held light if need be.

Superior M600C setup:
VLTOR mount - $35
Malkoff M61 + VME head - $104
Scout tailcap + E2D Body or E2D with head removed - $85

Total cost - $224

Brian Brazier

02-12-13, 19:39

I figure the head it comes with will be fine for the time being, maybe when I am ready to upgrade the new 500 lumen head will be out

lobstradomus

02-12-13, 20:45

[snip] has the ability to upgrade easily (when Gene comes out with a new module, but can also use any P60 style drop in)

The VME/M31 combo is definitely a great upgrade for an M300 or E1 series, but last I checked the VME will not accept standard P60 drop-ins. You could of course go with an LU60A from Surefire or any other aftermarket E2C type adapter and Z44/P60 type bezel to fit standard P60 drop-ins but I still think the M31 is the best choice for a single cell weapon light upgrade.

Shao

02-12-13, 21:42

The VME/M31 combo is definitely a great upgrade for an M300 or E1 series, but last I checked the VME will not accept standard P60 drop-ins. You could of course go with an LU60A from Surefire or any other aftermarket E2C type adapter and Z44/P60 type bezel to fit standard P60 drop-ins but I still think the M31 is the best choice for a single cell weapon light upgrade.

That's right.. You can always use an E to C adapter and stick any C/P/G/Z/M2 bezel on it.

JBecker 72

02-12-13, 21:56

One of these days, I'm gonna try a hot rodded Surefire. All of mine are completely original and I find them to be sufficient for my needs.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

WS6

02-12-13, 21:59

One of these days, I'm gonna try a hot rodded Surefire. All of mine are completely original and I find them to be sufficient for my needs.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

It's just cool to have a 700+ OTF lumen 6P.

jaxman7

02-13-13, 13:03

WS6

02-13-13, 15:54

Another stop gap option fellas is getting the 'older' LX2 200 lumen light. I paid less than $100 for it. If I recall a KX2C head is around the same price. Why not just buy an entire new light and swap out the head?

I got a 600A for $40. Guy didn't know what he had. ;) Placed the LX2 head on there on voila! Beam pattern is the same.

-Jax

My latest "invention" is an M300A with a Malkoff M31 with XP-G2 led (280 otf lumens, 40 minutes fully regulated full-output run-time), a VME head to put it in, and a sapphire lens with AR coating.

jaxman7

02-13-13, 16:26

Would love to try out that setup WS6.

What's the beam like? More of a flood or narrow? How does it compare with an X300 or 600C? have zero experience with Malkoff.

-Jax

WS6

02-13-13, 19:35

Would love to try out that setup WS6.

What's the beam like? More of a flood or narrow? How does it compare with an X300 or 600C? have zero experience with Malkoff.

-Jax

Module is here, but it's locked up in my apartment office. I will provide beamshots next week. In the mean-time, check your PM.

jaxman7

02-13-13, 19:44

Copy that WS6 and thanks for the pm'd link. That last post in the link answers my question.

Looking forward to your review.

-Jax

patriot_man

02-13-13, 23:55

Mid March - M300B, tentative release.

Shao

02-14-13, 05:41

Another stop gap option fellas is getting the 'older' LX2 200 lumen light. I paid less than $100 for it. If I recall a KX2C head is around the same price. Why not just buy an entire new light and swap out the head?

I got a 600A for $40. Guy didn't know what he had. ;) Placed the LX2 head on there on voila! Beam pattern is the same.

-Jax

Good idea, but I wouldn't do it because my OCD would bug me everytime I saw that gray LX2 bezel poking off the end of my black 600A. Definitely a way to save money and have some extra light parts floating around. That way when/if you decide to upgrade your Scout down the line, you can always reassemble the LX2 and have a great flashlight as well.

WS6

03-28-13, 02:18

Mid March - M300B, tentative release.

Holy crap, you're pretty spot on. It's up now on SF's site and many retailers sites as "sold out".

jaxman7

03-28-13, 10:15

Holy crap, you're pretty spot on. It's up now on SF's site and many retailers sites as "sold out".

And now the email notifications and waiting begins!

-Jax

WS6

04-19-13, 22:30

Just an update, my 200 lumen m300b mini arrives Monday.

jaxman7

04-20-13, 15:45

Just an update, my 200 lumen m300b mini arrives Monday.

Very cool. Keep us posted.

-Jax

JBecker 72

04-20-13, 16:06

I had almost forgotten about this. Can't wait to hear first hand reports.

Tapatalk ate my grammar

jpmuscle

04-20-13, 16:20

So when the hell are the Scout Ultra's going be hitting the streets? Im running a x300 ultra on my 14.5 but its going to be getting switched out.

Shao

04-20-13, 17:54

WS6

04-20-13, 18:13

While it's nice that the M300A is getting un upgrade, I'm much happier with my 300 OTF Lumen Malkoff M31/VME Head/E1B body/Z68 tailcap mutant weapon light. It costs a little less than the M300B, it's brighter, and when removed makes a nice ergonomic flashlight. I like it so much that I'm making another for another rifle.

I ran that combo, vme head, sapphire lens, neutral m31, regular m31, etc. I don't like them. Not for that. The beam just isn't hot enough for me. My m300a did a better job and I reverted back to it.

Shao

04-21-13, 10:57

I ran that combo, vme head, sapphire lens, neutral m31, regular m31, etc. I don't like them. Not for that. The beam just isn't hot enough for me. My m300a did a better job and I reverted back to it.

Some people prefer flood, some prefer throw. For my uses, I like a floodier weapon light, it's better for indoor uses.

jaxman7

04-22-13, 20:25

Just an update, my 200 lumen m300b mini arrives Monday.

Well WS6. It's Monday. It's nighttime. I know you've been playing with that new Surefire. ;)

-Jax

WS6

04-22-13, 20:39

Well WS6. It's Monday. It's nighttime. I know you've been playing with that new Surefire. ;)

-Jax

Yep! My M600C is currently mounted on my M4 right now, hardmount, and I don't want to walk around my neighborhood with it, so the pictures I took in the past will have to suffice, but...new pix coming in the next hour or two. For now...

http://i50.tinypic.com/35ar5h5.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/v98qd.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/98hy88.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/28gtjjp.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/15zjo9g.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/34ynz39.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/rr2uxs.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2q16szk.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/29lgrdg.jpg

one

04-22-13, 20:42

Glad to know of this upgrade.

jaxman7

04-22-13, 20:42

Cool deal! Hopefully when you post the new pics the little 300B will look just like the 600C.

-Jax

WS6

04-22-13, 20:46

Cool deal! Hopefully when you post the new pics the little 300B will look just like the 600C.

-Jax

I don't think it will :cool:

jaxman7

04-22-13, 20:51

I don't think it will :cool:

Interesting :)

-Jax

jonconsiglio

04-22-13, 20:51

I don't think it will :cool:

Why not? They'll both be the same size head with 200 lumens. Does one have a wider beam?

WS6

04-22-13, 21:00

Why not? They'll both be the same size head with 200 lumens. Does one have a wider beam?

Because I think Surefire is not being truthful with their ratings, or, they are arriving at their rated output in a different manner.

jonconsiglio

04-22-13, 21:07

Because I think Surefire is not being truthful with their ratings, or, they are arriving at their rated output in a different manner.

That sucks. It does have a different label on the head than the one from your current mini scout, right? Hopefully they didn't send you the 110 lumen head accidentally.

WS6

04-22-13, 21:14

That sucks. It does have a different label on the head than the one from your current mini scout, right? Hopefully they didn't send you the 110 lumen head accidentally.

No it doesn't.
The new head is labeled "KE1A".

http://i37.tinypic.com/r1lpmr.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/ibvtat.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/2igymtw.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2rzwg.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/2q9w4te.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/krwvs.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/34hxsnq.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/2l8ufci.jpg

*Dynamic lighting in my neighborhood has obviously changed, hence all-new controls.

WS6

04-22-13, 21:17

Tint, beam profile, power, EVERY performance aspect of the M300B is superior to the M600C, except probably run-time, obviously.

ALCOAR

04-22-13, 21:24

Damn I want that upgrade now!

Great pics, and the M300b is the WL to beat imho.

I already loved the M300a....how can one not be thrilled with it on steroids:)

WS6

04-22-13, 21:53

Damn I want that upgrade now!

Great pics, and the M300b is the WL to beat imho.

I already loved the M300a....how can one not be thrilled with it on steroids:)

I was shining it across that 100m field diagonally from across the street from it and with an RDS still could have hit a large dog if I took my time, etc. It has some serious throw! On CPF, the LUX has been estimated at around 11,000 for the EB1 (hand-held version, 2-mode). Other tests show the M600X/E2DL to be around 8500 LUX, give/take. I don't know how accurate these tests are, but they seem accurate given what I saw. I LOVE the M300B's beam profile and tint (both are identical to the X300U).

It's an awesome light.

jonconsiglio

04-22-13, 22:10

Ha, that's great! I'm really looking forward to the scout ultra, but for my short rifle(s) I want as much output in a small package as possible. I've been contemplating an x300u and even going back to a pressure switch, but I'd much rather have a push button tailcap on a true rifle light, so this is great news.

You made it sound as if it was a bad thing at first!

How bright does it appear at 50 to 100 meters compared to the x300u?

jonconsiglio

04-22-13, 22:17

Oh, where did you find the head? I just looked on Surefire's site and can't find it.

WS6

04-22-13, 22:52