View Full Version : Mass shooting in Aurora Colorado movie premiere of Batman movie.
SW-Shooter
07-20-12, 03:38
http://www.9news.com/news/article/278707/71/Shooting-in-Aurora-:mad:
****ing scumbags.
What a perfect place for a mass murder. Midnight premier I am assuming considering The Dark Knight Rises opens today, and a low lit room with tons of people packed in like sardines distracted and not looking at anyone else.
This just makes me sick to my stomach and I pray the victims who are in the hospital can recover.
Not trying to sound like a hero but I swear every time I hear about one of these shootings lately a very large part of me wishes he could've been there and tried to stop this.
-Jax
Good Lord,
Here is another report. Take it with a grain of salt considering this is just coming out and we all know the story will change over time.
http://www.rt.com/news/shooting-dark-knight-rises-batman-denver-aurora-654/
-2 gunmen
-Perps were wearing B.A. and gas masks
-An explosive device was set off
-Tear gas was set off which may or may not tie in with reports of an explosion
-10 killed, 39 wounded
SW-Shooter
07-20-12, 04:36
Just reported, One shooter. 14 dead, over 40 wounded. Shooter stood up at the beginning and used what was reported as a SHOTGUN.
davidjinks
07-20-12, 05:01
Updated so far:
14 dead
50 wounded
Possible IEDs in suspects car and apartment.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-20-12, 05:36
FBI says it is not terrorism. Just a killer, didn't mean to terrorize people.
Sounds like the movie is so loud and violent that some people couldn't tell the difference between the reality and the movie.
What a sick ****er. Tear gas, body armour, 3 runs (rifle, 2 handguns?).
When I moved to Denver, I was amazed how all the bad things happen in Aurora.
The_War_Wagon
07-20-12, 06:05
Waiting for Sarah Brady, to call for a ban on action movies... :rolleyes:
FBI says it is not terrorism. Just a killer, didn't mean to terrorize people.
Seems to be a reoccurring theme with the FBI. Isn't that what they said about the Ft. Hood shooting? :rolleyes:
I'm waiting to see if the gunman turns out to be a jihadi or jihadi convert.
montanadave
07-20-12, 06:38
Tragic. Condolences to the families of the dead and I hope the wounded can recover quickly.
I have yet to see a report providing any details as to the ethnicity of the shooter. Whoever this POS turns out to be, the media will go into hyperdrive making conjectures as to his motivations.
"Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night!"
Death toll up to 14. 50 wounded.
Looks like some explosives involved.
Heard one victim was 9 haven't been able to confirm yet.
This is just awful.
http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=16817842
Media reports that the shooter was wearing a gas mask to look like the character Bane. Thus, it want be long before the Dems lay the blame at Mitt Romney's feet.
What a perfect place for a mass murder. Midnight premier I am assuming considering The Dark Knight Rises opens today, and a low lit room with tons of people packed in like sardines distracted and not looking at anyone else.
I've long been worried about this in terms of a terrorist attack. Curious to find out what this assholes' motive was if any.
I'm out there often on business and will be there next week - very eerie to see the Aurora area on tv. Not that it matters, but a very nice area from what I've seen. Truly a very sad morning :( and my prayers go out to those affected.
Just heard a 3 month old was the youngest injured...WTF was a 3 month old doing in a movie theatre?!!!
ffhounddog
07-20-12, 06:52
I am upset about this and trying to bite my tougne so I do not go off on people saying that the NRA is to blame. I hate working in DC.
davidjinks
07-20-12, 06:54
Confirmed earlier:
Definite IED in suspects car. It was stated as being an "Incendiary Device". That could be a loose description (Kind of a catch all) or in fact it's a true incendiary device. Which could go to further motives of the shooter...
Suspects apartment complex was evacuated, unknown at this time if any IEDs were found there.
I could care less what this dudes ethnicity is, what his motives were. Bottom line...bad guy did bad stuff and many people died. Bad guy should go away, mixed in with some dirt.
I don't mean for the above statement to be crude in any way. It sucks to know that children were murdered. Losing a child is something that I wish no one ever experiences. I have and it steals your soul.
It seems to me, lately, that no matter what a criminals ethnicity or intent was, it gets chalked up to...mental issues that everyone knew about and guns are bad.
Very sad indeed. I always carry when I go to a movie and this is why, always seemed like an easy target: families and kids....
Obama has made a statement, his administration will do everything it can for the victims of Aurora...
Media is going to have a field day on guns....
Seems to be a reoccurring theme with the FBI. Isn't that what they said about the Ft. Hood shooting? :rolleyes:
I'm waiting to see if the gunman turns out to be a jihadi or jihadi convert.
Workplace shooting was the last I heard.
Prayers.
bottom line...bad guy did bad stuff and many people died. Bad guy should go away, mixed in with some dirt.
Yea. Doubt anyone will disagree with that.
Here we go,
Just heard on the radio while headed to work:
White guy/24 years old/name of James Holmes.
QuickStrike
07-20-12, 07:28
Terrible to see Aurora on the news. Lots of my co-workers live there.
Hope the turd gets a healthy dose of pain for the rest of his life.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-20-12, 07:36
I'm out there often on business and will be there next week - very eerie to see the Aurora area on tv. Not that it matters, but a very nice area from what I've seen. Truly a very sad morning :( and my prayers go out to those affected.
Aurora is like Naperville outside of Chicago- it is huge. It recently wanted to become its own county. North Aurora is not the best, south Aurora is better. I grew up in Chicago, so I don't consider either anywhere near bad. Buckley AFB is right there.
Someone was interviewing a black guy who made an offhand comment about the theater not being the 'safest'. I've seen one or two movies there and its was a bit run down (well worn?) and some sketchy people, nothing serious.
I chuckly when Denverites talk about 'bad neighborhoods'. Most of them would soil themselves if dropped into the non-business district of an eastern big city.
Room full of superhero wannab's and nobody took the guy out.
polymorpheous
07-20-12, 07:48
https://plus.google.com/102728491539958529040/posts
They are saying he had an "assault rifle".
I wondered that. One shotgun with that many hit seemed odd. Prayers for the families and prayers for this to not turn into a witch hunt.
prayers for this to not turn into a witch hunt.
Sadmin,
Me too man but this event in particular has me concerned.
-Jax
polymorpheous
07-20-12, 08:18
Sadmin,
Me too man but this event in particular has me concerned.
-Jax
You and me both.
First to confirm Ross & Stephanolpoulos from ABC, a tea party guy.. Here we go..:rolleyes:
http://tinyurl.com/7zsosyn
I don't know if it would have changed the outcome or not, but around here, for some big opening of a movie that is bound to be crowded, etc, there's at least 2 cops working a detail for it. As always, we can "what if" it to death have no real answers (shooter would probably have simply picked another target of opportunity and so forth) but in this day and age, crowds pre planned and known is a magnet for such scum and (armed) security not an option if the theater feels like paying for it, or a mall does not want to pay for it, and so forth.
Most will of course blame the tools used vs the person(s) using them, and or the fact we simply can't continue to stick head in sand regarding the realities of what people are willing to do to each other.
Something written by Professor Joseph Olson, J.D., LL.M., Hamline University School of Law after another well known shooting:
"A terrible tragedy. I know, I teach on college campus.
Once he starts to act, the only thing that can stop a single, psychotic killer who is willing to die is the rapid delivery of counter fire by whoever is near. Cop, civilian, it doesn't matter who or their job status. The more people who are nearby and capable of delivering return fire, the fewer and less serious the injuries (there's criminological data on this).
Virginia Tech. is a "gun free" zone guaranteeing that the psychotic killer had the only gun. He came prepared. He waited until there were no police in sight and then commenced his murderous acts certain that he would encounter no effective resistance. And , he didn't.
Twenty-one innocent*dead because there was no one capable of fighting back. All they could do was cower or run."
First to confirm Ross & Stephanolpoulos from ABC, a tea party guy.. Here we go..:rolleyes:
http://tinyurl.com/7zsosyn
Looks like the story has been updated, and.........
ABC ****ed up and got the wrong guy. What a surprise. :rolleyes:
The Tea Party member guy is 50yrs old. Not the 24yr old scumbag. Won't be surprised if the rest of the libtard media does the same thing and blame the Tea Party. Like that article says, interesting that ABC immediately checked to see if the shooter was a Tea Party member.
Duplicate to post right before me.
Edit: I wonder kind of body "armor" the shooter was wearing.
I dont want to derail this thread and disrespect the sincerity of the original content, but my comment is so brief and speculated, its not worth making a new thread.
I find it extremely unsettling that this occurs soon after homeboy made the self inflicted comment re: reliance on govt. even when you didnt recognize it.
thats all, forgive my goofy hypothetical and tact.
President to make an address within the hour....
This is a tragedy indeed, but this does not come at a good time for gun owners, NATO talks, election etc...
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-20-12, 09:27
It might come up in house or senate races, but Obama and Romney won't touch the gun aspect with a 10ft poll, and I mean poll, not pole.
30 cal slut
07-20-12, 09:33
Can we get confirmation that this theater was posted no guns?
CO has CCW.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/gunfreezone.png
Disgusting act of a coward! Condolences and prayers to all effected by this tragedy.
The setting that was used, was one that would have been a very difficult fight for anyone trying to intervene. It simply doesn't get more difficult than this example.
Low light:
Smoke/gas: (ever tried to get a sight pic in low light with tear gas burning your eyes)
Armored assailant:
Handgun to a rifle fight:
Countless innocents including many children:
Complete chaos:
There are many of us who pride ourselves in our training, but IMHO this is about as close as you can come to a "worst case scenario" for taking down an active shooter, regardless of who you are and what your level of training is.
It sounds like there was about a 15-30 second window to end it quickly, and even that would have depended upon your location in the theatre when he entered.
Train harder and stay safe...
I wouldn't count on Obama not touching this one. Not after he came to VA and told the people no successful business was every created without the help of the Government.
I honestly think he is fully prepared to speak his mind now. He's off the prompter this go round.
==========
One thing I have noticed in watching the news. The people that were close to the shooter seemed to be extremely lucid. This one girl had his gun in her face and she jumped away. She seemed to have a very clear recollection of everything going on.
What a mess. Man I feel sorry for all the family and friends of those that got killed.
Mental illness is a real problem. It's a bit of an "undiagnosable" problem in our society. Even when recognized it is often beyond our control to deal with.
Can we get confirmation that this theater was posted no guns?
CO has CCW.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/gunfreezone.png
cinemark posts all their theatres. I wrote them a nasty email about it.
(i also carried in their damn theatre, they didn't find my glock and they didn't find bag of m&m's either, if you don't take your security seriously then neither will I)
Disgusting act of a coward! Condolences and prayers to all effected by this tragedy.
The setting that was used, was one that would have been a very difficult fight for anyone trying to intervene. It simply doesn't get more difficult than this example.
Low light:
Smoke/gas: (ever tried to get a sight pic in low light with tear gas burning your eyes)
Armored assailant:
Handgun to a rifle fight:
Countless innocents including many children:
Complete chaos:
There are many of us who pride ourselves in our training, but IMHO this is about as close as you can come to a "worst case scenario" for taking down an active shooter, regardless of who you are and what your level of training is.
It sounds like there was about a 15-30 second window to end it quickly, and even that would have depended upon your location in the theatre when he entered.
Train harder and stay safe...
it's a total nightmare scenario. ideally you'd have a friend also with a gun.... otherwise i don't know what your options are... die trying i guess?
Now reporting a sophisticated "booby trapped" device in the apartment.
The Police reporting that apartment does indeed have explosives.
montanadave
07-20-12, 09:54
Some of the eyewitnesses stated it was difficult to see the shooter due to the darkness and his attire and, initially, thought it was some kind of staged event associated with the movie opening. By the time it became apparent what was happening, people were panicking, screaming, up and moving ... total chaos.
For an armed person to have intervened would have required being in a seat almost right in front of the guy, otherwise you'd be getting jostled and swept around by the crowd making it virtually impossible to get a clear view of the shooter. I'm not arguing against folks carrying concealed. Just making the observation that, in this type of situation, the ability to successfully intervene would be almost as much luck as skill or preparation.
Room full of superhero wannab's and nobody took the guy out.
Really? That's the comment you'd make. Wow. Just wow.
@30 cal slut
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/cinemark-theaters-no-legal-firearms-allowed/
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html
"The shooter used at least four guns -- an "AK type" rifle, a shotgun and two handguns, a federal law enforcement official told CNN. The source also said the shooter used tear gas."
30 cal slut
07-20-12, 10:29
@30 cal slut
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/cinemark-theaters-no-legal-firearms-allowed/
TY.
Unleash the tort lawyers.
Very sad.
No weapons signs are on the doors of my local theater, I still carry everytime I go. I was there last night seeing Ted and by the time I left the place was already crowded (about 10:30) for the batman premier. It was also crawling with police.
I'm extremely concerned that this happened now, while the UN treaty details are being locked down.
diving dave
07-20-12, 10:47
Prayers out to the victims and their families. Just senseless ...All the usual suspects will be flapping their pie-holes about gun control, but you can't outlaw crazy. The worst scenario for a CCW holder or off duty LEO, but I always wonder if there were just one person, trained and carrying, how things might have been different.
This is why I usually avoid the local theater that doesn't allow weapons.
I am work so limited on free time. Has anyone found out anything about the shooter's background, intentions, associations? Thanks,
-Jax
@30 cal slut
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/cinemark-theaters-no-legal-firearms-allowed/
The key is know your state's laws. Here in PA it is NOT unlawful to ccw in an establishment that has signs that say no guns. In some states it is unlawful.
http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/at-least-14-killed-dozens-injured-in-shooting-at-aurora-movie-theater/
Info about him on this link
Including photo of him
Quick info from that link:
Police reports state the suspect in this shooting, James Holmes, moved to Colorado from San Diego to pursue a PhD. The owner of the booby-trapped apartment said that Holmes just moved in to his building.
CU-Denver Medical Campus said that suspected shooter was a student in the Fall of 2011. He was studying some form of neuroscience at the Medical Campus and withdrew in June.
More on him here now to
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/reports-suspect-in-dark-knight-rises-shooting-identified/
From the blaze
According to ABC, a San Diego woman identifying herself as Holmes’ mother said she had not been aware of the shooting but “immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved.”
Statements like that make me wonder ?
I am work so limited on free time. Has anyone found out anything about the shooter's background, intentions, associations? Thanks,
-Jax
The key is know your state's laws. Here in PA it is NOT unlawful to ccw in an establishment that has signs that say no guns. In some states it is unlawful.
Same here. Only a few places is it actually illegal to do so (government buildings, etc) but anyone can put up a sign. Worst they can do is ask you to leave if they find out (concealed means concealed). If you are asked to leave and refuse you can be charged with trespassing.
Just awful. I can't imagine how chaotic it must have really been with an action flick, low light and a shooter in mostly black garb open firing. Most must have been so off gaurd in the first place being in such an environment.
Browsing through the MSM's, the comments on most of the articles are really disparaging. I think we are in for some very rough waters ahead.
Some of the stories I have seen come out calling for stricter Gun control and outright gun bans since this story broke are attrocious, appalling and ignorant as ****; this will be used as cache to further anti-2A agendas. One such article used Rio De Janero as an example of what we should do; ban all citizen owned guns...:suicide:
Rio is one of the most dangerous and violent places on the planet and has triple the murder rate the US does?!?!?!?!?!
This guy was a recent transplant from California..:( Enough Cali weirdos have come to this fine state and f'd all sorts of things up- it is getting so effin rediculous.
I wonder what the motive was; if any or if he just snapped mentally?
Prayers to those injured and those who have lost loved ones in this massacre.
What a sad day for Colorado and the Nation in general.
AZ-Renegade
07-20-12, 12:03
This is why I try avoid overly crowded venues whenever possible.
It would be bad enough to try and deal with a monster like this in a theater holding maybe half its total occupancy, but to be in this situation with your family and over 100 other people in a theater with stadium seating is an absolute nightmare.
Prayers for the victims, their families and our nation.
First to confirm Ross & Stephanolpoulos from ABC, a tea party guy.. Here we go..:rolleyes:
http://tinyurl.com/7zsosyn
And if he turns out to be a OWS or ocupy guy wonder if they will say sorry to the Tea Party and go after OWS crowd ?
Fact he was on a PHD program etc.. Shows he must have had some inteligence and also shows who cares what he is OWS or TP he is a nut case ! unless he says this is why I did it ?
With his education etc.. Makes me wonder what his agenda is cause in this case I might think while he is a nut he is a nut with a agenda ! And he is not talking
it's a total nightmare scenario. ideally you'd have a friend also with a gun.... otherwise i don't know what your options are... die trying i guess?
Funny you should mention that. I almost never go to movies at the theater. When I do, it's usually some big action flick. Last one was The Expendables. Strike that, we went to see True Grit after that. Anyway, the only time I go is when a group of us make an outing out of it. It's always 4-8 of us, all well armed and very well trained. We ignore the gunbuster signs, as they don't carry the weight of law in OK. All they can do is ask you to leave.
One armed CCW'er would have a tough time of it. Four to eight armed competitive shooters would be a different story altogether.
I should mention that we all carry Surefires as well.
http://kdvr.com/2012/07/20/at-least-14-killed-dozens-injured-in-shooting-at-aurora-movie-theater/
Info about him on this link
Including photo of him
Quick info from that link:
Police reports state the suspect in this shooting, James Holmes, moved to Colorado from San Diego to pursue a PhD. The owner of the booby-trapped apartment said that Holmes just moved in to his building.
CU-Denver Medical Campus said that suspected shooter was a student in the Fall of 2011. He was studying some form of neuroscience at the Medical Campus and withdrew in June.
More on him here now to
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/reports-suspect-in-dark-knight-rises-shooting-identified/
From the blaze
According to ABC, a San Diego woman identifying herself as Holmes’ mother said she had not been aware of the shooting but “immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved.”
Statements like that make me wonder ?
Honu,
Thanks man. I appreciate that.
-Jax
I wonder what the motive was; if any or if he just snapped mentally?
Hard to believe there would be any rational motive. I expect this guy snapped a long time ago.
I keep seeing a quote from his mom "you have the right person."
What does she know and how long has she known it?
ForTehNguyen
07-20-12, 12:46
Look no normal person just "snaps" There is no such thing. Its always people that have had mental problems or some troubled past. I knew it when I read the bit about how his mom "knew it was him, when she heard about it"
jut saw an ABC video and they said he had an AR15, two glocks, and a shotgun. Stupid anchor was trying to sensationalize the 30 round mags.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-14-people-dead/story?id=16817842#.UAmXC7RfFN1
After looking at how it went down a CHL would have a difficult time being effective here: dark, smokey tear gassed room, people running all over chaotic. Would be very tough to get a clear shot. Greater chance of surivival would be hiding in the smoke somewhere while shooter is occupied with runners. Not to mention you would have to fight a guy with a helmet, gas mask, bulletproof vest that had an AR.
Mauser KAR98K
07-20-12, 12:59
The solution would have been a triple tap to him. Achieving that in the environment he created would be near impossible. Do wonder what would have happened if someone had shot at him, since he surrendered to the police so quickly?
Prayers to the victims and families.
BTW: wonder if any of the victims were CCW holders but chose to obey the rules?
PA PATRIOT
07-20-12, 13:07
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html
"The shooter used at least four guns -- an "AK type" rifle, a shotgun and two handguns, a federal law enforcement official told CNN. The source also said the shooter used tear gas."
Fox News TV interview of Aurora Police Chief stated the shooter was armed with a AR-15, Remington 870 Shotgun and two Glock .40 pistols.
The shooter was also wearing full body armor with leg, arm, throat and groin flap and a ballistic helmet.
And lastly the shooter used two unknown types of expelling gas canisters.
71 killed or wounded.
This nut was ready for war.
After looking at how it went down a CHL would have a difficult time being effective here: dark, smokey tear gassed room, people running all over chaotic. Would be very tough to get a clear shot. Greater chance of surivival would be hiding in the smoke somewhere while shooter is occupied with runners. Not to mention you would have to fight a guy with a helmet, gas mask, bulletproof vest that had an AR.
It sounds like he walked down the aisle. It sounds like one should have hidden in their aisle, played dead, hunkered down, and if armed, engaged the guy from behind after he passed.
It is hard to MMQB such a tragedy afterwards.
Prayers and condolences to the victims and their families.
Now being reported that one of the weapons was an AR-15 and also a .40 Glock...
Bloomberg comments:
<snip>"There are so many murders with guns every day, it's just got to stop," Bloomberg told the John Gambling radio show. "And this is a real problem. No matter where you stand on the Second Amendment, no matter where you stand on guns, we have a right to hear from both of them concretely, not just in generalities -- specifically what are they going to do about guns?" </snip>
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/bloomberg-obama-romney-act-prevent-colorado-style-massacres/story?id=16819968#.UAmgaqBn6P4
polymorpheous
07-20-12, 13:39
If the shooter did indeed use an AR-15, dollars to donuts the politicians are going to use it against us.
I don't like this situation at all.
As another poster alluded, the timing is just really bad.
Bloomberg comments:
<snip>"There are so many murders with guns every day, it's just got to stop," Bloomberg told the John Gambling radio show. "And this is a real problem. No matter where you stand on the Second Amendment, no matter where you stand on guns, we have a right to hear from both of them concretely, not just in generalities -- specifically what are they going to do about guns?" </snip>
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/bloomberg-obama-romney-act-prevent-colorado-style-massacres/story?id=16819968#.UAmgaqBn6P4
I wouldn't say the witch hunt has began Sadmin but they definitely have gotten larger torches and sharpened their pitchforks.
-Jax
Room full of superhero wannab's and nobody took the guy out.
A comment like this is just shameful. Wow.
My thoughts are with the lives and families affected.
I feel bad and dont mean to dimune what has happened last night in Aurora and to families that have lost so much but man you can almost feel the hatred from some of these people and this is THEIR chance to deal their deathblow to 'assault weapons' and I am quite sure many of the sheep will follow.
-Jax
parishioner
07-20-12, 14:41
Fox is now reporting a 100 round drum style magazine was used in the AR. Weapons were purchased legally at gander mountain and bass pro shops.
There's something about this shooting that leaves me more worried about political action than previous ones. Maybe it's the timing.
Also "AR 15" is trending on twitter meaning the phrase is being used at a greater rate than other topics. Not good.
Do wonder what would have happened if someone had shot at him, since he surrendered to the police so quickly?
He wanted to be arrested, because he wants the attention.
Senseless bloodshed perpetrated by the weak. :mad:
I see another AWB coming...... What a ****ing piece of shit. I hope they fry his ass within the next year.
Rattlehead
07-20-12, 15:00
Room full of superhero wannab's and nobody took the guy out.
I don't have to read through this thread to realize how ridiculous this comment is.
I guess the 'wannabe' kids that were shot in the theatre should have taken him out?
lifebreath
07-20-12, 15:01
Fox is now reporting a 100 round drum style magazine was used in the AR. Weapons were purchased legally at gander mountain and bass pro shops.
There's something about this shooting that leaves me more worried about political action than previous ones. Maybe it's the timing.
Also "AR 15" is trending on twitter meaning the phrase is being used at a greater rate than other topics. Not good.
My gut says similar.
The one "good" thing these days is that ARs have gone mainstream. More people own them than ever. Those people will be upset when they are tarred with the gunbanner's brush and someone threatens to take their toys away.
I'm wondering if the crowds will move away from the handgun counter to the rifle counter this weekend at the lgs. I agree, this doesn't look good.
What an unfortunate mess.
ridgerunner70
07-20-12, 15:33
Right now on CNN they are talking about the type of Tactical Glove he was wearing...?
"I see another AWB coming...... What a ****ing piece of shit. I hope they fry his ass within the next year."Tzook
"This guy was a recent transplant from California.. Enough Cali weirdos have come to this fine state and f'd all sorts of things up- it is getting so effin ridiculous." THCDDM4
The Virginia Tech shooting resulted in 32 deaths. What is it about this tragedy that makes it any worse or politically significant?
Blathering on the 'internuts' about what could possibly happen (legislative ramifications) is not constructive in any form.
Perhaps, looking into any memorial funds set-up for the victims or the families affected is a more worthwhile activity.
The last time I checked, there are murderers, psychotics, and violent criminals in every State in the Union.
Any ****ing coward can walk into a soft target area such as a school campus, shopping mall, stadium, or a movie theater and attack unarmed persons incapable of fighting back in an effective manner.
Prayers to those souls lost and their famililies left behind.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
The local Century Theater here posted "No Guns" signs (as in No CCW) in the ticket windows about a month ago. Morons just made it a lot less safe. I assume it's the same in Colorado, but would like to hear from a CO local if that's the case.
The only visible security last week was a kid (18ish) on a bicycle watching the parking lot.
The Virginia Tech shooting resulted in 32 deaths. What is it about this tragedy that makes it any worse or politically significant?
Blathering on the 'internuts' about what could possibly happen (legislative ramifications) is not constructive in any form.
Perhaps, looking into any memorial funds set-up for the victims or the families affected is a more worthwhile activity.
The last time I checked, there are murderers, psychotics, and violent criminals in every State in the Union.
Any ****ing coward can walk into a soft target area such as a school campus, shopping mall, stadium, or a movie theater and attack unarmed persons incapable of fighting back in an effective manner.
Prayers to those souls lost and their famililies left behind.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
You aren't worried in the SLIGHTEST that there will be serious political ramifications from this?
polymorpheous
07-20-12, 16:12
The Virginia Tech shooting resulted in 32 deaths. What is it about this tragedy that makes it any worse or politically significant?
Blathering on the 'internuts' about what could possibly happen (legislative ramifications) is not constructive in any form.
Perhaps, looking into any memorial funds set-up for the victims or the families affected is a more worthwhile activity.
The last time I checked, there are murderers, psychotics, and violent criminals in every State in the Union.
Any ****ing coward can walk into a soft target area such as a school campus, shopping mall, stadium, or a movie theater and attack unarmed persons incapable of fighting back in an effective manner.
Prayers to those souls lost and their famililies left behind.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
The timing is different for one.
The political climate also, (Clinton pushing the UN small arms treaty).
If Obama wins in November, (and the R's lose seats), this will likely make for a good excuse to ram some form of legislation down or throats.
Chicago over memorial day some 40 people were shot 10 dead or so ? Also seem to remember reading 32 deaths in one week recently in chicago ?
They have all the guns are bad and evil ammo they want but this might be played up more as the media attention will be huge and the old dont let a crisis go to waste
Since it was kids/people at a movie vs innocent kids in a house they will use it as much as they can
Its a screwed situation since they are so eager to use peoples deaths for their gains !
Sad day for all the people that lost family memebers for sure
You aren't worried in the SLIGHTEST that there will be serious political ramifications from this?
Why should I worry about something that I cannot control?
If the legislative branch of our government intends to restrict the 2nd Amendment or push for more restrictive measures to control the private ownership of firearms or suppress the freedom of its citizens, what can you or I do about it?
Other than the obvious, write your congressman, join the NRA, and call your senators...
I have long ago settled and accepted that death comes to all of us in one form or another. We here are all grown men and must decide at some point in life what we will or will not accept.
Belmont31R
07-20-12, 16:53
Damn what a piece of shit human being. Why can't these ****ers just go off themself in the bathtub so its easy to clean out, and leave the rest of us alone?
Unfortunately the anti-gunners are chanting for gun control while there are still bodies laying where they died. **** them, too. I swear these cocksuckers wake up in the morning and the first thing they do is check the news to see if theres some horrific thing like this so they can dance in the blood.
The timing is different for one.
The political climate also, (Clinton pushing the UN small arms treaty).
If Obama wins in November, (and the R's lose seats), this will likely make for a good excuse to ram some form of legislation down or throats.
Polymorpheous, your voice and opinion is respected here.
I see where you are coming from, but I believe most on this forum and other similar places are of the understanding that gun control was always on the agenda of the Obama Administration. And Hillary Clinton's thoughts on the matter are widely known.
I believe in this instance, we are simply preaching to the choir Brother.
The Virginia Tech shooting resulted in 32 deaths. What is it about this tragedy that makes it any worse or politically significant?
Blathering on the 'internuts' about what could possibly happen (legislative ramifications) is not constructive in any form.
Perhaps, looking into any memorial funds set-up for the victims or the families affected is a more worthwhile activity.
The last time I checked, there are murderers, psychotics, and violent criminals in every State in the Union.
Any ****ing coward can walk into a soft target area such as a school campus, shopping mall, stadium, or a movie theater and attack unarmed persons incapable of fighting back in an effective manner.
Prayers to those souls lost and their famililies left behind.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
You're right, people from everywhere are capable of great evil. My cali comment was made out of great frustration from so many cali transplants moving to Colorado over the past 10 years that have really been messing this state up in all sorts of ways/areas.
I should have left it out of the conversation as my personal frustrations are irrelevant to this instance and unecessary. My apologies blokes.
With everything that has been going on lately (politically, socially and in general all the craziness) I am on edge and my nerves are at their limits, it's hard to keep emotions under control all the time.
Thanks for calling me out on it, I appreciate it.
I just wish everyone affected by this the best and pray for those injured & with lost loved ones to make it through.
Why should I worry about something that I cannot control?
If the legislative branch of our government intends to restrict the 2nd Amendment or push for more restrictive measures to control the private ownership of firearms or suppress the freedom of its citizens, what can you or I do about it?
Other than the obvious, write your congressman, join the NRA, and call your senators...
I have long ago settled and accepted that death comes to all of us in one form or another. We here are all grown men and must decide at some point in life what we will or will not accept.
Pretty sad to see that you have accepted dying on your knees...
Why should I worry about something that I cannot control?
If the legislative branch of our government intends to restrict the 2nd Amendment or push for more restrictive measures to control the private ownership of firearms or suppress the freedom of its citizens, what can you or I do about it?
Other than the obvious, write your congressman, join the NRA, and call your senators...
I have long ago settled and accepted that death comes to all of us in one form or another. We here are all grown men and must decide at some point in life what we will or will not accept.
This statement is troubling...
Do you truly believe you can do nothing?
Or are you just complacent to do nothing and unwilling to fight for your rights?
Pretty sad to see that you have accepted dying on your knees...
That's sort of what I'm thinking..... That, or I'll have some of what HE's having, cause all I ****ing do is worry
Mauser KAR98K
07-20-12, 18:04
I was rummaging through Facebook and saw a "Trendy Article" that titled "Why Don't Mass Shootings Lead to Gun Control?"
Here we go. When was the last mass shooting like this? America has a very short attention span.
Consider the amount of firearms, including AR-15s and the like that have been bought in the past years after the AWB, these incidents are incredibly rare. But when one happens, here comes the politics and the banning screams even before a prayer leaves someone's lips.
If anything needs to be banned or controlled, it is the medie and the violence they are promoting. The screamed about this when Gifford's was shot, but when it is so evident when their stuff causes this, it goes back to blaming the gun.
Belmont31R
07-20-12, 18:19
I was rummaging through Facebook and saw a "Trendy Article" that titled "Why Don't Mass Shootings Lead to Gun Control?"
Here we go. When was the last mass shooting like this? America has a very short attention span.
Consider the amount of firearms, including AR-15s and the like that have been bought in the past years after the AWB, these incidents are incredibly rare. But when one happens, here comes the politics and the banning screams even before a prayer leaves someone's lips.
If anything needs to be banned or controlled, it is the medie and the violence they are promoting. The screamed about this when Gifford's was shot, but when it is so evident when their stuff causes this, it goes back to blaming the gun.
Liberals are perverse people, and put their ideology/agenda ahead of humanity at large.
Michelle Malkin had a good point today:
Predictably, Nanny NYC Michael Bloomberg has already called for more gun control. So has Piers Morgan.
Many Coloradans will remember that the mass shooting in Colorado Springs at New Life Church in 2007 (http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/09/sunday-horror-church-shootings-in-colorado-gunman-reportedly-killed-by-armed-female-church-security-staffer/) was stopped by a citizen hero, Jeanne Assam, because she was armed and shot back — saving hundrds of lives.
Let me repeat that for the gun control zealots: Armed Colorado citizens have SAVED lives in mass shootings. The knee-jerk gun-grabbers have no shame. And no clue.
Mauser KAR98K
07-20-12, 18:56
Michelle Malkin had a good point today:
Lets also not forget that there was a CCW holder running towards the shooting in Tuscon, Arizona.
outrider627
07-20-12, 19:01
Room full of superhero wannab's and nobody took the guy out.
Wow, what the **** is your problem? The majority of that room was probably between the ages of 15 to 25. Do you really expect kids and young adults who still act like kids to throw themselves at a guy with multiple firearms, gas grenades, and explosives?
Why don't we put you in a dark room with loud noises, filling up with gas, and multiple innocent bystanders, and see if you can take out a gunman. Think you can handle that?
Mauser KAR98K
07-20-12, 19:15
The Daily Mail has photos of the scene, including one with the AR used.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/The-Dark-Knight-Rises-theater-shooting--James-Holmes-looked-like-said-JOKER.html
They are claiming it is a Colt.
Cagemonkey
07-20-12, 19:17
Liberals are perverse people, and put their ideology/agenda ahead of humanity at large.I agree. They believe and practice "The ends justify the means". I wouldn't put anything past these people. They are relentless.
Moose-Knuckle
07-20-12, 19:18
This is a tragedy indeed, but this does not come at a good time for gun owners, NATO talks, election etc...
I'm extremely concerned that this happened now, while the UN treaty details are being locked down.
Bingo!
This douche reeks of MK-ULTRA.
This douche reeks of MK-ULTRA.
The deep end...you're off it.
Wonder if we'll see a run on AR-15's now.
Pretty sad to see that you have accepted dying on your knees...
Negative. What I am saying is that when and if the time comes, I will stand-up to any aggressor in our country, Foreign or Domestic.
I will not get on my knees for anyone.
Best wishes go out to the victims' families.
Was it so important the UK Daily Mail plaster pictures of the Gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shops where he supposedly shopped?
I can practically see the headlines now...these "lax" gun laws allow anyone to just drop into one of these mega-stores and arm up for a massacre...that or these shops need to be investigated :rolleyes:
I read the theaters are supposed to be pulling trailers with guns in them. Knee jerk. Now let's pull all movies and TV with guns :rolleyes:
Bingo!
This douche reeks of MK-ULTRA.
Just looked that up.........Not agreeing or disagreeing but here's some things to ponder, IF, reported accurately.
1. One news report said 100 FBI and ATF agents were on scene almost immediately.
2. Shooter just bought those firearms within 60 days. The drum or rifle malfunctioned before being emptied. That's ALOT of hits. TOO good, even considering the circumstances in my opinion.
polymorpheous
07-20-12, 21:04
1. One news report said 100 FBI and ATF agents were on scene almost immediately.
2. Shooter just bought those firearms within 60 days. The drum or rifle malfunctioned before being emptied. That's ALOT of hits. TOO good, even considering the circumstances in my opinion.
That does seem odd.
Any sources that you can site?
QuickStrike
07-20-12, 21:07
So did the theater really have "no gun" signs???
BrigandTwoFour
07-20-12, 21:07
Terrible. Absolute tragedy that was not easily preventable. If an intelligent person decides they are going to do something like this, and takes the time to research, plan, and acquire the equipment necessary to pull it off- there is little that can be done short of stopping them before it happens. Which, for someone who gave no signals, seems nearly impossible in this case.
Out of morbid curiosity, I occasionally browse the comment sections of articles about events like this on sites like HuffPo. I never understand the endless over-the-top rhetoric about the NRA rather than focusing on the person who did it. It is as if they truly believe that gun owners take pride and joy in events like these and the devastation they cause.
I also get extremely frustrated at the willful ignorance of those who know nothing about firearms and then seek to enact new laws to regulate the things they do not own or understand. I get more frustrated that these individuals also vote.
Terrible. Absolute tragedy that was not easily preventable. If an intelligent person decides they are going to do something like this, and takes the time to research, plan, and acquire the equipment necessary to pull it off- there is little that can be done short of stopping them before it happens. Which, for someone who gave no signals, seems nearly impossible in this case.
Out of morbid curiosity, I occasionally browse the comment sections of articles about events like this on sites like HuffPo. I never understand the endless over-the-top rhetoric about the NRA rather than focusing on the person who did it. It is as if they truly believe that gun owners take pride and joy in events like these and the devastation they cause.
I also get extremely frustrated at the willful ignorance of those who know nothing about firearms and then seek to enact new laws to regulate the things they do not own or understand. I get more frustrated that these individuals also vote.
They do realize the deadliest massacre on US soil used planes as weapons and the 2nd deadliest act of terror used diesel fuel and fertilizer?
Heavy Metal
07-20-12, 21:21
They do realize the deadliest massacre on US soil used planes as weapons and the 2nd deadliest act of terror used diesel fuel and fertilizer?
That and the fact we have become jaded to the fact they are no longer novel is what makes it nearly impossible now for the anti-gunners to gain any lasting traction from these events.
They will get even less from this one as the shooter is still alive and did not take his own life. So he and not the gun will be symbol of this massacre.
Bingo!
This douche reeks of MK-ULTRA.
We really don't need this type of BS here.
Just looked that up.........Not agreeing or disagreeing but here's some things to ponder, IF, reported accurately.
1. One news report said 100 FBI and ATF agents were on scene almost immediately.
2. Shooter just bought those firearms within 60 days. The drum or rifle malfunctioned before being emptied. That's ALOT of hits. TOO good, even considering the circumstances in my opinion.
These comments are an embarrassment. Let's preserve the forum's integrity and stop making them.
That and the fact we have become jaded to the fact they are no longer novel is what makes it nearly impossible now for the anti-gunners to gain any lasting traction from these events.
They will get even less from this one as the shooter is still alive and did not take his own life. So he and not the gun will be symbol of this massacre.
I seriously hope that will be the case :(
But this being deadlier than the AZ shooting and him having a "stockpile" of weapons. It's mind boggling to some people that a person is allowed to own one gun much less 4 or 5.
We really don't need this type of BS here.
These comments are an embarrassment. Let's preserve the forum's integrity and stop making them.
Agreed.
This is no place for off the wall, grassy knoll theories.
We really don't need this type of BS here.
THANK YOU.
I know it's hard for some to understand but there are a lot of broken people out there. Jared Loughner, Mark David Chapman, John Hinkley, Kleibold and Harris, etc.
None of their motivations make any kind of logical sense, it isn't political and it's not a conspiracy plot.
It's no different than serial killers, child kidnappers / rapists and other really ****ed up people.
QuickStrike
07-20-12, 21:38
That and the fact we have become jaded to the fact they are no longer novel is what makes it nearly impossible now for the anti-gunners to gain any lasting traction from these events.
They will get even less from this one as the shooter is still alive and did not take his own life. So he and not the gun will be symbol of this massacre.
Sounds reasonable, and I hope you're right.
BrigandTwoFour
07-20-12, 21:43
I seriously hope that will be the case :(
But this being deadlier than the AZ shooting and him having a "stockpile" of weapons. It's mind boggling to some people that a person is allowed to own one gun much less 4 or 5.
I was talking about it with my wife about this earlier today, and I think that this guy purposely did not shoot himself that he could use his newfound infamy as a platform for whatever else he wants to preach, much lie Ted Kaczynski.
I think that there will be some traction on this, but not as much as they want. They will win on emotional appeal, but they lose traction because they are so willfully ignorant about the facts.
I get headaches every time I see one of them argue something to the effect of, "There is absolutely no reason for a regular person to own an automatic AR-15 with 100 round clips. They have no reason to exist other than killing people. But the NRA dances in the blood of the victims to make sure that teaparty wackos get to keep them."
In the mean time, I continue to introduce "antis" to my collection and take them shooting. While my collection of six firearms is modest by some people here, it would be considered excessive by any one of the antis- right up until they begin to understand that each one has a specific purpose that it's good for.
Well this is just a crying shame.
And I heard there were some pretty young kids that got shot too.
What a bastard. :mad:
That being said- this strikes me as a little weird.
The guy goes through all that- guns, smoke grenades, body armor, and then afterwards just surrenders without a fight?
And then TELLS the police about his booby trapped apartment?
But I thought he wanted to kill lots of people? Especially with the theory of him using loud music to supposedly lure people to his apartment....
Not to mention the explosives- he had enough (or at least the expertise to manufacture) to booby trap his appartment, and apparently had a bunch in his car as well.
WHY go for the "guns blazing" option, when he could have just blasted the place and probably caused 10 times the casualties?
And wasn't the guy on unemployment? Ain't all that stuff a little expensive for a broke guy?
Yeah, pretty thin, but still...
Given those questionable issues, not to mention the absolutely awful timing, and the weapons used (practically 3 of the most "evil" hated firearms), one can't help but wonder....
Agreed.
This is no place for off the wall, grassy knoll theories.
Yes please put your head in the sand and believe he was one o' them there terrorists sent from alqaeda to kill you because you's a free man with freedom..
lol
Heavy Metal
07-20-12, 21:54
I seriously hope that will be the case :(
But this being deadlier than the AZ shooting and him having a "stockpile" of weapons. It's mind boggling to some people that a person is allowed to own one gun much less 4 or 5.
They couldn't even get a mag ban thru the Conneticut(sic) Legislature over Giffords. The lowest of low hanging fruits and they could not take it.
This is a major election year we are in the middle of, there are many Democrats who are scared to effing death right now of their chances of holding their seats and want NOTHING to do with even the whisper of gun control and the Republicans wont touch it.
Obama didn't even mention gun control today. Clinton would have been dancing in the blood of the victims like he did after Columbine. He is scared and he set the tone for the other Democrats to follow. As much as he may want ti personally, he knows tactically that is is a battle he cannot win and to fight it will only cost the Democrats with nothing but additional loss to show for it. They are afraid to poke the Bear with the stick and for good reason because the Bear bites HARD!
No, expect this to fade away over the next few weeks.
Belmont31R
07-20-12, 22:01
As soon as the illegitimate One gets re-elected, you better believe it will be a high priority push.
I would call FF a high priority push....
Heavy Metal, very astute observations regarding political actions based on Aurora Colorado shooting. I agree.
If the Va Tech or Columbine incidents didn't generate any legislation then this one will not either.
Condolences to all losses in Aurora.
Belmont31R
07-20-12, 22:07
Heavy Metal, very astute observations regarding political actions based on Aurora Colorado shooting. I agree.
If the Va Tech or Columbine incidents didn't generate any legislation then this one will not either.
Condolences to all losses in Aurora.
Last year a sitting Congresswoman was shot in the head....no new laws....
Heavy Metal
07-20-12, 22:15
As soon as the illegitimate One gets re-elected, you better believe it will be a high priority push.
Even if he gets re-elected in his best-case scenario, by the barest skin of his teeth, which I don't believe he will, he is almost certain to lose the Senate on top of the House. He can push all he wants but he ain't gonna get any traction. He isn't close to having the numbers to pass any draconian legislation now and will be less so then.
Heavy Metal
07-20-12, 22:17
We need to push back politically on the whole "Gun Free Zone" issue.
It is literally killing people.
not sure why it irks me so much that this guy was so book smart...only to see him snap (although the reports stated his mom wasn't too surprised)
Anyway, his IQ really doesn't matter but it still sticks in my craw??
I think my wife got a little better understanding of why I conceal at church, movies, etc. today.
sad day...prayers up.
Belmont31R
07-20-12, 22:22
not sure why it irks me so much that this guy was so book smart...only to see him snap (although the reports stated his mom wasn't too surprised)
Anyway, his IQ really doesn't matter but it still sticks in my craw??
I think my wife got a little better understanding of why I conceal at church, movies, etc. today.
sad day...prayers up.
Snapping is a liberal term like anyone of us can be normal one day and snap the next....thus going to shoot up a theatre. There are always signs. No everyone will know what they are...but looking back we see them. We often toss out mental problems/defects in people as 'they're stressed out' or 'going through a rough period'. In reality they were batshit nuts from the get go but hid it or people didn't pick of signs of increasing danger to others.
Moose-Knuckle
07-20-12, 22:53
We really don't need this type of BS here.
So you can refute the evidence complied by the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities found in 1975?
Mauser KAR98K
07-20-12, 23:15
Reports are coming that this guy had 6,000 rounds of ammunition. If this guy was unemployed, moved to Colorado for a Ph.D, how could this guy get so much damn ammo, weapons and gear? Most graduates I know are surviving on Roman.
Heavy Metal
07-20-12, 23:20
6,000? I bet the bulk of it was .22lr for the M&P 15-22.
6K of 22 is easy to afford.
6,000? I bet the bulk of it was .22lr for the M&P 15-22.
6K of 22 is easy to afford.
what 15-22? haven't seen that noted anywhere
Well this is just a crying shame.
And I heard there were some pretty young kids that got shot too.
What a bastard. :mad:
That being said- this strikes me as a little weird.
The guy goes through all that- guns, smoke grenades, body armor, and then afterwards just surrenders without a fight?
And then TELLS the police about his booby trapped apartment?
But I thought he wanted to kill lots of people? Especially with the theory of him using loud music to supposedly lure people to his apartment....
Not to mention the explosives- he had enough (or at least the expertise to manufacture) to booby trap his appartment, and apparently had a bunch in his car as well.
WHY go for the "guns blazing" option, when he could have just blasted the place and probably caused 10 times the casualties?
I'm gonna guess that it was because despite his education he was still a massive **** tard. I'm certain in his imagined scenario he duked it out with cops killing many before he was killed or escaped and then his "apartment of death" claimed several more victims.
Then came reality and he probably found out fighting cops who can shoot back isn't as much fun as shooting unarmed people and he didn't have the stones for a shootout and then he told the cops everything about the apartment (if he actually is the source and they didn't discover it on their own) in an effort to start trying to save his own ass.
Generally guys who think they are evil super villains turn out to be pussies. I remember Danny Rolling crying during his trial.
Reports are coming that this guy had 6,000 rounds of ammunition. If this guy was unemployed, moved to Colorado for a Ph.D, how could this guy get so much damn ammo, weapons and gear? Most graduates I know are surviving on Roman.
Dear Mom and Dad, I'm doing very well and should soon have my PhD in neuroscience. Classes are hard but my efforts should soon pay off.
However, I'm having financial difficulties and there are several expensive books I need to buy and some lab seminars I'd like to attend. Also with all my studying I usually can't get to the local cafeteria during hours and I need some money for food.
Please send any money you can.
Your soon to be "Dr. Holmes."
Thanks.
They do realize the deadliest massacre on US soil used planes as weapons and the 2nd deadliest act of terror used diesel fuel and fertilizer?
The 3rd was a simple Molotov Cocktail. Google "Happy-Land Murders". :(
Snapping is a liberal term like anyone of us can be normal one day and snap the next....thus going to shoot up a theatre. There are always signs. No everyone will know what they are...but looking back we see them. We often toss out mental problems/defects in people as 'they're stressed out' or 'going through a rough period'. In reality they were batshit nuts from the get go but hid it or people didn't pick of signs of increasing danger to others.
I think the problem for most is we're just not around people descending into gross evil much. We're used to the run of the mill sinner. This guy, just a guess here, is probably going to wind up a loner that not many people had serious regular contact with. I would also think that interpreting the signs of the descent into gross evil would be tough until the end, most of us have a "mine your own business" attitude until something really off the wall happens.
Dear Mom and Dad, I'm doing very well and should soon have my PhD in neuroscience. Classes are hard but my efforts should soon pay off.
However, I'm having financial difficulties and there are several expensive books I need to buy and some lab seminars I'd like to attend. Also with all my studying I usually can't get to the local cafeteria during hours and I need some money for food.
Please send any money you can.
Your soon to be "Dr. Holmes."
Thanks.
Or just charge up a credit card that you think you'll never have to pay off....
I'm less concerned with how he paid for all the stuff as I am the training in using them and his quick surrender and telling about the other explosives. Just doesn't exactly make sense why he would go through all the trouble in the first place...
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-21-12, 00:16
6,000? I bet the bulk of it was .22lr for the M&P 15-22.
6K of 22 is easy to afford.
what 15-22? haven't seen that noted anywhere
That is what I was wondering becuase there were so many wounded. I did hear that it was 223 and he had a 100 round drum on it, but it jammed?
Thank God they got him so fast, who knows where he was headed after the theater or if he was going to go 'North Hollywood' with all that body armour. Body armor is legal in CO as long as you are not comitting a crime.
Watching the local news, they still haven't cleared his apartment. Something about a 'central triggering device'? Be interesting to see where he learned how to put something together that has stymied the EOD guys for this length of time.
I wonder if all of the body armor is because he didn't want to die and intended to live through this. It was insurance incase he started taking fire before he could surrender.
This clearly took a good deal of planning. I am very curious as to what his motives were in all of this.
SeriousStudent
07-21-12, 00:19
Prayers sent for the fallen, and may the wounded be healed. Hope and courage to the families of the victims. :(
6,000? I bet the bulk of it was .22lr for the M&P 15-22.
6K of 22 is easy to afford.
the Police captain or the one main guy doing the talking not sure his rank ?
said 3000 rounds .223
3000 rounds .40
and 600 shells for the shotgun
said he bought the guns local and the magazines and stuff from the internet
I wonder if all of the body armor is because he didn't want to die and intended to live through this. It was insurance incase he started taking fire before he could surrender.
This clearly took a good deal of planning. I am very curious as to what his motives were in all of this.
I couldn't say, however I can speculate that with his choice of attire he was emulating(to perfection)the protagonist of another Hollywood motion picture that detailed a deranged twenty-something, shooting up an entire town, it was titled "Rampage!"
I'll add that I gave up listening to the equally deranged media frenzy after cnn actually went to NYC's police commish, mind you not for his analysis, but for what he was presenting as a release of "intimate factual evidence" from an investigation not yet 24 hours old, and 2000 miles away!
I'm gonna guess that it was because despite his education he was still a massive **** tard....
I think that's the best explanation of this I've heard all day.
I think the problem for most is we're just not around people descending into gross evil much. We're used to the run of the mill sinner. This guy, just a guess here, is probably going to wind up a loner that not many people had serious regular contact with...
Yes, I read that somewhere earlier today- supposedly one of those classic "shy, introverted RPG-playing gamer turned spree shooter" types.
Forget gun legislation- pretty soon it's going to be a crime if you're not an extremely over-the-top friendly and outgoing blabbermouth.
Mauser KAR98K
07-21-12, 01:40
I wonder if all of the body armor is because he didn't want to die and intended to live through this. It was insurance incase he started taking fire before he could surrender.
This clearly took a good deal of planning. I am very curious as to what his motives were in all of this.
Which makes me ask again: what would have happened if someone started returning fire to him? Would he have dropped his weapon and ran, or continued?
Also, his planning looks very similar to Anders Behring Breivik's plan from the Norway Massacre. I think Holmes set a date and just slowly got stuff to make it happen.
Or just charge up a credit card that you think you'll never have to pay off....
I'm less concerned with how he paid for all the stuff as I am the training in using them and his quick surrender and telling about the other explosives. Just doesn't exactly make sense why he would go through all the trouble in the first place...
Could be on credit cards as well.
As for the second part, you are making the mistake of assuming logic and reason applied to everything he did. It could be as simple as him trying to play "Joker" in real life and found he wasn't up for the big finish, might also have been trying to impress Jodie Foster.
polymorpheous
07-21-12, 08:58
The are purposefully trying to create an uproar over this, no doubt in my mind.
"All the ammunition he possessed, he possessed legally, all the weapons he possessed, he possessed legally, all the clips he possessed, he possessed legally," an emotional Oates said.
The chief declined to say whether the weapons were automatic or semi-automatic, but "he could have gotten off 50 to 60 rounds, even if it was semi-automatic, within one minute," Oates said.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-14-people-dead/story?id=16817842#.UAq0cXimc7w
QuietShootr
07-21-12, 09:15
We really don't need this type of BS here.
Seriously, just shut the **** up. You are so far out of your lane you can't even see the road from where you are.
Another good M4Carbine standard aphorism applies to you in this area too: You don't know what you don't know. And clearly, you don't know about any of this. Some light reading if you care to learn, even though I know you don't:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB222/index.htm
http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2010/04/0413mk-ultra-authorized/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/01/mkultra-lawsuit/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/21/AR2008042103399_pf.html
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/06/spooks-behavori/
Now go home and get your ****ing shine box.
QuietShootr
07-21-12, 09:20
THANK YOU.
I know it's hard for some to understand but there are a lot of broken people out there. Jared Loughner, Mark David Chapman, John Hinkley, Kleibold and Harris, etc.
None of their motivations make any kind of logical sense, it isn't political and it's not a conspiracy plot.
It's no different than serial killers, child kidnappers / rapists and other really ****ed up people.
I don't know what the other poster's intent was in expressing that point, but my point is that 90+% of the time you're right. But to dismiss the other possibility as impossible is naive.
polymorpheous
07-21-12, 09:36
Right now is the time when we need to be asking A LOT of questions.
Before the media washes the whole thing and force feeds an accepted truth down the masses throats.
Arguing and attacking each other will fulfill nothing but getting this thread locked.
Keep it clean boys or take it to PM's.
Seriously, just shut the **** up. You are so far out of your lane you can't even see the road from where you are.
Now go home and get your ****ing shine box.
If you think you're impressing anyone with the tough guy talk combined with the unrelated links you're wrong, mental patient. All you proved here is how dumb and unstable you are. Congratulations.
Please don't have children.
QuietShootr
07-21-12, 09:42
Right now is the time when we need to be asking A LOT of questions.
Before the media washes the whole thing and force feeds an accepted truth down the masses throats.
Arguing and attacking each other will fulfill nothing but getting this thread locked.
Keep it clean boys or take it to PM's.
I agree. An (albeit remote) possibility was expressed, and our resident Yankee crew immediately started screaming "Tinfoil"!! Yes, it's less likely than this guy was simply nuts, but it is a nonzero probability, so the "TINFOIL!! ALEX JONES LISTENER!! CHEMTRAILS!!!" bullshit is the inappropriate part, not the suggestion that events like this are sometimes more than random entropy.
High Tower
07-21-12, 09:47
Reports are coming that this guy had 6,000 rounds of ammunition. If this guy was unemployed, moved to Colorado for a Ph.D, how could this guy get so much damn ammo, weapons and gear? Most graduates I know are surviving on Roman.
I am curious about this as well. I wouldn't be surprised if he has ties to some counter culture group, but I suspect he paid for much of this with "mailbox money." This welfare state we currently have has got to end!
QuietShootr
07-21-12, 09:48
If you think you're impressing anyone with the tough guy talk combined with the unrelated links you're wrong, mental patient. All you proved here is how dumb and unstable you are. Congratulations.
Please don't have children.
Tell you what. You think I'm a mental patient, unstable, and dumb, why don't you email Homeland Security and have them come and check me out?
Here, let me google that for you: http://www.in.gov/iifc/2373.htm
I'll expect you to post a copy of the email report here, otherwise I think you should shut your mouth.
GENTLEMEN:
PLEASE TONE IT DOWN. REMEMBER WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT A MASS MURDER WHO SLAUGHTERED INNOCENT PEOPLE. TRY NOT TO LOWER YOURSELF TO THE SAVAGE LEVEL. SHOW CIVILITY.
polymorpheous
07-21-12, 09:51
GENTLEMEN:
PLEASE TONE IT DOWN. REMEMBER WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT, IT'S ABOUT A MASS MURDER WHO SLAUGHTERED INNOCENT PEOPLE. TRY NOT TO LOWER YOURSELF TO THE SAVAGE LEVEL. SHOW CIVILITY.
Thank you Sam.
So you can refute the evidence complied by the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities found in 1975?
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, although to be honest I'm not sure I should have to. I'm not saying the government didn't take part in questionable activities, but rather that they have absolutely nothing to do with the wackjob (no, not Quietshooter) at the base of this thread.
Voodoochild
07-21-12, 10:01
QuietShootr/SafetyHit both of you better simmer the **** down right now....You want a pissing match do it offline. Stay on topic and contribute worth while info or see your way out of this thread.
No problem, my apologies. Although I'm rather surprised that a post like 145 was allowed here, seemed a bit much but oh well.
But really, why on earth would the government covertly induce a med student into mass murder at a midnight Batman showing? Are we not better here as a collective than to seriously suggest that? This was my only point.
Edit: And while I do believe that F&F may have been a literal conspiracy to gain support for firearm restrictions, there no way this shooting was anything of the sort. None.
I was choked up several times listening the news yesterday, especially when I heard the radio traffic of an officer calling for medics to help with a child victim. Then I went to a silent rage and wanted to kill the scumbag.
My son was in the truck with me, he loves shooting. He told me he wished they'd never invented guns. I explained that bad people were doing bad things long before guns. He asked if I had my gun with me. I told him I had and wished someone there had one so they could have shot him in the head.
Then all the reports started talking about his body armor including leggings, groin protection and a ****ing helmet. Douche Bag/Coward. In the chaos I am not sure how effective I would have been. My first thought would be for my children. I can only imagine the chaos as people crushed each other trying to get out. I imagine if he started taking incoming he would have pissed his pants and run, but we will never know.
I used to carry a JFrame with three reloads. I switched to a Glock 27 and one 15 round reload. I know next time I go to the movies my kids are going to be scared. The way stadium seating is set up in our area there is only one route out, to go down towards the screen, hit an exit or walk up an out the ramp. The older theaters in this area give the exit down near the screen and the entrance/exit towards the rear, at least there you have two options.
SeriousStudent
07-21-12, 10:44
I used to carry a JFrame with three reloads. I switched to a Glock 27 and one 15 round reload. I know next time I go to the movies my kids are going to be scared. The way stadium seating is set up in our area there is only one route out, to go down towards the screen, hit an exit or walk up an out the ramp. The older theaters in this area give the exit down near the screen and the entrance/exit towards the rear, at least there you have two options.
Which is why I go to a movie theater about once every four years, and go during the most sparsely attended times. I just do not feel comfortable in one.
That's a tough policy to apply, however, when you have little ones. They want to go see every new Pixar movie, and probably should.
Good luck with your children, I know they are safe with you.
One thing most of these psychopaths usually have in common is they are social deviants, introverts, outcasts, maybe have been bullied, talked some extreme rhetoric, and usually have mental problems or have sought psychiatric help. I'm not at all saying someone seeking help with mental health is going to go nuts...I'm saying several of these signs culminated together.
I'm not making any kind of excuses for them but we all know the warning signs and most people who've know the perp is nuts has usually done nothing to warn anyone. They are ususally apathetic or at least hesitant to report to appropriate authorities and even then the authorities' hands may be tied due to the threat (perceived or not) of litigation.
For example, look at other social mammal species such as dogs. We know an unsocialized dog will be defensive and violent. The same could probably be said for many other species such as primates. Once the animal withdraws, even if they aren't in a cage they're imprisoned by their own mind and act out to get attention.
If a large part of the population can't figure out hints and warning signs as simple as those exhibited by their own pets how can we expect them to know what to do with a complex human or child? People aren't involved in their children's lives anymore to force them to be sociable instead of sitting at the first person shooter console for 10-20 hours straight. We have a society where "kids" can stay on the parental/governmental tit until their mid twenties and later.
I'm probably preaching to the choir...but we have to start looking at legitimate ways to combat psychopathic behavior before it's so ingrained in them its too late. We all know banning guns will only make them find other ways to carry out there sick plans.
I'm 52, and growing up in the 1960's and 1970's I don't recall very many mass shootings (although there were certainly cases such as Charles Whitman). Back then you, really didn't hear much about gun bans either. Those of us in my age bracket got to watch the slow liberalization of society over the years, and the apparent proliferation of whackos as well.
Cagemonkey
07-21-12, 11:20
Seems the Suspect liked to cheer for the Villains in movies. When his Mother was contacted by the media, she didn't seem too surprised her Son was a suspect. I expect to see more information about this guy surface showing that the suspect had a history of Phycological issues. I'm willing to bet this is another case of someone falling through the cracks.
I don't know what the other poster's intent was in expressing that point, but my point is that 90+% of the time you're right. But to dismiss the other possibility as impossible is naive.
I don't find them impossible, I find them extremely unlikely. I find them as likely as him being a Manchurian plant psychically programmed by the Taliban.
I find if far more likely that he is another Loughner, Hinkley, Chapman kinds of **** tard who pulls shit like this for reasons that only make sense to him.
I strongly doubt it was Project Joker courtesy of the CIA.
polymorpheous
07-21-12, 11:38
But will anyone ever note that (A) he likely couldn't aim all those shots very well if he fired them that fast so it's a meaningless statistic intended to influence against standard magazine capacity and (B) one armed civilian could potentially have stopped him well before he got that many rounds off.
Doubtful that we will hear any kind of reasoned intelligence from the media.
Emotional hyperbole is all we get.
montanadave
07-21-12, 11:38
I question whether there is not too much emphasis being placed on the comments made by the shooter's mother when contacted by the media. I would be more inclined to interpret the "you've got the right person" as a "yes, I'm his mother" as opposed to the prevailing sentiment implying "yeah, they caught the right guy and I was afraid something like this was coming."
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Most parents would be saying things like
No way not my kid
Cant be my child
You have to have the wrong person ?
Not sure if ya have kids ? But you would not be thinking yeah you got the right guy when they call about one of the bigger mass shootings in our recent history
Most would be in complete denial and shock
I question whether there is not too much emphasis being placed on the comments made by the shooter's mother when contacted by the media. I would be more inclined to interpret the "you've got the right person" as a "yes, I'm his mother" as opposed to the prevailing sentiment implying "yeah, they caught the right guy and I was afraid something like this was coming."
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Watched that CNN lefty piers whatever his name is
Oh my gosh of course purely the guns fault and the two from the theater he interviewed were massive anti gun types and basically his whole thing was about how bad guns are and self promotion for his agenda
Makes me puke these left wing f)$& faces spout their own agenda rather than just be sorry for the folks
Of course he said how you can buy these guns over the internet ! Again typical anti gun BS
Most parents would be saying things like
No way not my kid
Cant be my child
You have to have the wrong person ?
Not sure if ya have kids ? But you would not be thinking yeah you got the right guy when they call about one of the bigger mass shootings in our recent history
Most would be in complete denial and shock
That's not what he's saying dude.
He's saying that it's very possible that this is how the conversation went:
POLICE: Is this Mrs. Holmes?
PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE PHONE: Yes.
POLICE: Mrs. Holmes, father of James Holmes?
PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE PHONE: Yes, you've got the right person (Identifying herself as the person they want to speak to, NOT that James was the shooter).
The media often gets things like this wrong because of a lack of context. The "you've got the right person" quote could have just been the mother properly identifying herself as James Holmes' parent.
Get it?
Now, this very well might not be the case. And it's possible that she really did mean it in the way that it's been reported. But it's also completely conceivable that the media got it wrong.
This is what Montanadave was saying.
And could be the other way !
It was a question about her son it was not a question of who she was !
The fact you think it was the police show you dont even know whats going on with it :) hahhahahaha typical
It was abc that called her !
I am sure MontanDave knows this also since he even said when the media contacted her !
That's not what he's saying dude.
He's saying that it's very possible that this is how the conversation went:
POLICE: Is this Mrs. Holmes?
PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE PHONE: Yes.
POLICE: Mrs. Holmes, father of James Holmes?
PERSON WHO ANSWERED THE PHONE: Yes, you've got the right person (Identifying herself as the person they want to speak to, NOT that James was the shooter).
The media often gets things like this wrong because of a lack of context. The "you've got the right person" quote could have just been the mother properly identifying herself as James Holmes' parent.
Get it?
Now, this very well might not be the case. And it's possible that she really did mean it in the way that it's been reported. But it's also completely conceivable that the media got it wrong.
This is what Montanadave was saying.
And could be the other way !
It was a question about her son it was not a question of who she was !
The fact you think it was the police show you dont even know whats going on with it :) hahhahahaha typical
It was abc that called her !
I am sure MontanDave knows this also since he even said when the media contacted her !
Of course it could be the "other way." In fact I even agree with what you're saying, so I don't know why you're talking to me like I'm a ****ing idiot. The report I read said it was the police that called, not ABC. Apparently they got the story wrong. So obviously the "media" sometimes gets confused and reports things incorrectly. If you read my reply to you I actually said:
Now, this very well might not be the case. And it's possible that she really did mean it in the way that it's been reported. But it's also completely conceivable that the media got it wrong.
It seems that she really did have a gut-reaction that her son was guilty, especially given the context of the question. But given how common it is for the collective "media" to get confused, especially regarding the circumstances of little sound-bites, I still don't read too much into initial reporting like this until the story has a few days to settle.
But yeah, again, it seems like she knew her son was the culprit right away. I don't know why you have to go into full adversarial mode when people are just talking about little details that could have possibly been misconstrued in the media.
montanadave
07-21-12, 13:08
a0cake was correct in interpreting my previous post. I was suggesting the mother's comment was nothing more than her correctly identifying herself as the mother of the suspect rather than any reflection on her son's guilt or innocence.
Was not trying to say your a idiot trying to say get the facts and I know what he was trying to say :)
I am sure the police also called her but the statement in question was about the abc call
Have not heard any contriversy or read any transcript of the police call if they even released it ?
Even the fbi folks who have been on news channels as guests are saying the abc call reveals something cause parents dont respond like this unless they knew something about their kids etc..
The mother told ABC news that her son was most likely the alleged culprit saying "You have the right person"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/aurora-dark-knight-shooting-suspect-identified-james-holmes/t/story?id=16818889
montanadave
07-21-12, 13:38
The mother told ABC news that her son was most likely the alleged culprit saying "You have the right person"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/aurora-dark-knight-shooting-suspect-identified-james-holmes/t/story?id=16818889
Given ABC's track record on this story to date, I'd like to hear the actual conversation. Regardless, it's a minor point and hardly worth wasting this much bandwidth debating.
Mauser KAR98K
07-21-12, 14:04
What a retarded article. Law Suits likely. Yeah, like suing the theater for not allowing CCW holders to take their weapons inside. Instead, the dip-shit writer saws that there should have been pat-downs to go in.
Holy Christ, people are throwing shit fits about getting groped at airports, and he is suggesting we should do it at movie theaters.
Not to mention the author doesn't acknowledge Holmes went through the theater, probably unarmed, went to the back exit, propped it open, and retrieved his weapons.
It seems Holmes is smarter than the media.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/20/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-injured-idUS387141306620120720
I question whether there is not too much emphasis being placed on the comments made by the shooter's mother when contacted by the media. I would be more inclined to interpret the "you've got the right person" as a "yes, I'm his mother" as opposed to the prevailing sentiment implying "yeah, they caught the right guy and I was afraid something like this was coming."
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
a0cake was correct in interpreting my previous post. I was suggesting the mother's comment was nothing more than her correctly identifying herself as the mother of the suspect rather than any reflection on her son's guilt or innocence.
Given ABC's track record on this story to date, I'd like to hear the actual conversation. Regardless, it's a minor point and hardly worth wasting this much bandwidth debating.
Then why did you bring it up ?
And when confronted with the facts try to discredit them trivialize and try to deflect it ?
Prayers for the victims & their families. Hopefully justice will be served.
I'll be making a donation to the NRA today. This doesn't look good for the rest of us 2A supporters. At least from the way the media is demonizing guns & gun owners.
And with election time around the corner...
Part of me wonders if the news should just call these people by the place and no name no publicity
Just the Aurora shooter thats it
Get the info they need and quick trial and execute him not give these people the all week coverage notariaty etc..
Not sure if it would do anything or not though ?
PA PATRIOT
07-21-12, 15:23
The media makes up its own story to sensationalize the event based very loosely on the facts if at all so to be the first to break the story or just to cover air time.
Now its fluff time with the gun angle since all the covering reporters are trying to get face time now that the basic story is out.
This is when I ignore and by pass the news channels after the first day of a major event.
Hell look what NBC did to Zimmerman with the creative editing to in flame the story.
So arguments based on information received from these sources is retarded.
VooDoo6Actual
07-21-12, 16:14
It's the INDIAN not the ARROW....
Tragedy & predictable Pavlovian responses, leveraging & exploitation forthcoming from Progressives/Neo-Cons by using the tragedy/crisises/overton window etc. to further their agenda etc.
Control, Containment & ruling POWER Eliteism through the guise & ruse of the UN under the auspices of Global Goverence..
Biggest SCAM perpetrated on humanity.
Why did no one fight back? (http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_james_holmes_batman_shooting.html)
Definite must read article regarding the CO shooting.
Interesting to note that the AR was indeed a S&W M&P 15, it jammed once during the massacre...
I would be interested to see what sort of psychotropic drugs he had been prescribed over the course of his life.
You will notice a disturbing trend here. Whenever one of these guys flips out, you will find a long history of MAOI drug use. I would argue a good deal of military suicides are also related to the use of these drugs. In the medical industry they are almost universally prescribed with very little supervision or follow on care.
As gun owners we need turn this argument around. I would turn the MAOI drug problem into a talking point. We need to plant this seed everywhere we go. What exactly is causing these people to go on these killing sprees?
number1olddog
07-21-12, 17:13
another great story from these people who use a tragedy to push their goals:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/blood-hands-obama-mitt-nra-article-1.1119049
Belmont31R
07-21-12, 17:17
another great story from these people who use a tragedy to push their goals:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/blood-hands-obama-mitt-nra-article-1.1119049
Disgusting people....is sarah brady standing at the side of every unarmed rape or murder victim?
And to be honest I don't give a **** what the "NEW YORK Daily News" has to say on my gun rights. They can go **** themselves in the ass with a rusty spork chucked in a drill for all I care. I don't need a "new yorka's" opinion on anything.
number1olddog
07-21-12, 17:27
Disgusting people....is sarah brady standing at the side of every unarmed rape or murder victim?
And to be honest I don't give a **** what the "NEW YORK Daily News" has to say on my gun rights. They can go **** themselves in the ass with a rusty spork chucked in a drill for all I care. I don't need a "new yorka's" opinion on anything.
I agree with you 100%. It just pisses me the hell off to see these people writing these stories for one reason only.
On a side note I am a firm believer that these twisted people keep committing these hanus acts of violence only because the media from all spectrums runs these stories day and night and twisted people watching get a great idea to commit some other sort of violence and it keeps going on and on. I bet if holmes would have been tied to a tree and shot with his own gun these idiots would not be doing this shit all the time. That I guarantee you would send a message to these twisted ass people.
What a perfect place for a mass murder. Midnight premier I am assuming considering The Dark Knight Rises opens today, and a low lit room with tons of people packed in like sardines distracted and not looking at anyone else.
This just makes me sick to my stomach and I pray the victims who are in the hospital can recover.
Not trying to sound like a hero but I swear every time I hear about one of these shootings lately a very large part of me wishes he could've been there and tried to stop this.
-Jax I had pretty much the same thought. I usually have three kids with me at the movies and a smallish G27 in my pocket. 10 in the gun and 15 in a spare mag. I used to think that was a lot of ammo. I have several spares in my truck but this was a shit sandwich. Having friends with guns with you would have been the best option to deal with this shit head. I need to start carrying a flashlight again too.
Something written by Professor Joseph Olson, J.D., LL.M., Hamline University School of Law after another well known shooting:
"A terrible tragedy. I know, I teach on college campus.
Once he starts to act, the only thing that can stop a single, psychotic killer who is willing to die is the rapid delivery of counter fire by whoever is near. Cop, civilian, it doesn't matter who or their job status. The more people who are nearby and capable of delivering return fire, the fewer and less serious the injuries (there's criminological data on this).
Virginia Tech. is a "gun free" zone guaranteeing that the psychotic killer had the only gun. He came prepared. He waited until there were no police in sight and then commenced his murderous acts certain that he would encounter no effective resistance. And , he didn't.
Twenty-one innocent*dead because there was no one capable of fighting back. All they could do was cower or run."
The setting that was used, was one that would have been a very difficult fight for anyone trying to intervene. It simply doesn't get more difficult than this example.
Low light:
Smoke/gas: (ever tried to get a sight pic in low light with tear gas burning your eyes)
Armored assailant:
Handgun to a rifle fight:
Countless innocents including many children:
Complete chaos:
There are many of us who pride ourselves in our training, but IMHO this is about as close as you can come to a "worst case scenario" for taking down an active shooter, regardless of who you are and what your level of training is.
It sounds like there was about a 15-30 second window to end it quickly, and even that would have depended upon your location in the theatre when he entered.
Train harder and stay safe... This and a school or day care. Things I think about a lot with three little kids at home. My son has already told me he doesn't want to go to the movies again for a long time. I don't blame him but it really pisses me off. I honestly though next time I go I am wearing my G22 and two spare mags.
Funny you should mention that. I almost never go to movies at the theater. When I do, it's usually some big action flick. Last one was The Expendables. Strike that, we went to see True Grit after that. Anyway, the only time I go is when a group of us make an outing out of it. It's always 4-8 of us, all well armed and very well trained. We ignore the gunbuster signs, as they don't carry the weight of law in OK. All they can do is ask you to leave.
One armed CCW'er would have a tough time of it. Four to eight armed competitive shooters would be a different story altogether.
I should mention that we all carry Surefires as well. I think any courageous person who chose to fight back would have helped. I think your group of 4-8 with training, the right mindset and equipment would have freaking shut him down very, very quickly. I'd like to see some asshole try this in Israel.
It sounds like he walked down the aisle. It sounds like one should have hidden in their aisle, played dead, hunkered down, and if armed, engaged the guy from behind after he passed.
It is hard to MMQB such a tragedy afterwards.
Prayers and condolences to the victims and their families. With his armor and helmet I think a face shot was really the only option with a handgun. I supose a shot to the ass or back of his legs would have put him down too.
Any ****ing coward can walk into a soft target area such as a school campus, shopping mall, stadium, or a movie theater and attack unarmed persons incapable of fighting back in an effective manner.
Prayers to those souls lost and their famililies left behind.
This is something Grossman has been talking about for about ten years. I stopped carrying my JFrame because of something that happened to me. I was sitting on a hill watching a parade with my wife and son, he was about two. There were two teenagers sitting near us looking at the crowd. One of them said, I wonder how many people we could shoot before the cops showed up. I leaned over to them and said not many because someone in the crowd will ****ing shoot you. They stopped talking. We all need to carry enough gun, I am starting to re-evaluate my choices and we need to do little things like that. Confronting them is important, those kids sent a chill up my spine with their casual conversation about shooting people watching a Labor Day Parade.
I think my wife got a little better understanding of why I conceal at church, movies, etc. today.
sad day...prayers up.
This is one of the good things that will come from this event. More like minded people will carry, and train. I know I need to improve on my shooting from a distance. I don't think I could have made the necessary head shot at fifty feet to stop him. I'm gonna work on that. Center mass, yup I can make that shot, I train for that. I need to start training/shooting more. i have a few Evil Roy targets I need to use more. I think one has a 6 inch and the other a 8 inch round steel target.
Which is why I go to a movie theater about once every four years, and go during the most sparsely attended times. I just do not feel comfortable in one.
That's a tough policy to apply, however, when you have little ones. They want to go see every new Pixar movie, and probably should.
Good luck with your children, I know they are safe with you.
Man I have been to more movies in the past 3 or 4 years than I have in the twenty years prior. We go almost every week. The closest we came to a premier was Harry Potter and we went to the ten am show. The day after it was released, the crowd was small.
I would be interested to see what sort of psychotropic drugs he had been prescribed over the course of his life.
You will notice a disturbing trend here. Whenever one of these guys flips out, you will find a long history of MAOI drug use. I would argue a good deal of military suicides are also related to the use of these drugs. In the medical industry they are almost universally prescribed with very little supervision or follow on care.
As gun owners we need turn this argument around. I would turn the MAOI drug problem into a talking point. We need to plant this seed everywhere we go. What exactly is causing these people to go on these killing sprees?
Yep... I would like to know that too. I see this as a clear mental illness issue. Drug related or not. combination problem... I don't know.. but that guy's brain or at least part of it was clearly not functioning properly.
Mauser KAR98K
07-21-12, 18:38
It is appearing through recent reports that he got a lot of stuff through mail order. Probably went through the Cheaper than Dirt catalogue. I fear this will be a reprocaution above all else. Thing is I know almost everyone on here mail orders many of their shooting supplies.
Cagemonkey
07-21-12, 19:09
For people willing to have an open mind or tin foilers. http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/21/colorado-batman-shooting-shows-obvious-signs-of-being-staged/. With the UN arms treaty negotiations going on and the Congressional contempt charges against AG Eric Holder for Fast and Furious, the timing couldn't have been better. By the way the Mexican President is already talking shit again. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/21/us-usa-shooting-mexico-idUSBRE86K0IL20120721. Don't crucify the messenger for this. Its just food for thought.
montanadave
07-21-12, 20:52
I would be interested to see what sort of psychotropic drugs he had been prescribed over the course of his life.
You will notice a disturbing trend here. Whenever one of these guys flips out, you will find a long history of MAOI drug use. I would argue a good deal of military suicides are also related to the use of these drugs. In the medical industry they are almost universally prescribed with very little supervision or follow on care.
As gun owners we need turn this argument around. I would turn the MAOI drug problem into a talking point. We need to plant this seed everywhere we go. What exactly is causing these people to go on these killing sprees?
I'm not clear where you are getting the information regarding MAOIs. This class of anti-depressant drug has largely been replaced by tricyclics and, even more recently, the SSRIs and SNRIs, all of which have significantly lower side-effect profiles than the MAOIs.
Currently, MAOIs are usually only prescribed as a last resort when these other classes of anti-depressants have failed and the prevalence of their use is quite low.
For people willing to have an open mind or tin foilers. http://theintelhub.com/2012/07/21/colorado-batman-shooting-shows-obvious-signs-of-being-staged/. With the UN arms treaty negotiations going on and the Congressional contempt charges against AG Eric Holder for Fast and Furious, the timing couldn't have been better. By the way the Mexican President is already talking shit again. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/21/us-usa-shooting-mexico-idUSBRE86K0IL20120721. Don't crucify the messenger for this. Its just food for thought.
From the first article:
"In other words, this guy was equipped with exotic gear by someone with connections to military equipment. SWAT clothing, explosives, complex booby-traps… c’mon, this isn’t a “lone gunman.” This is somebody who was selected for a mission, given equipment to carry it out, then somehow brainwashed into getting it done."
Seriously man? Is this the direction we want to go with this?
Here's a good article to post far and wide:
http://cnsnews.com/blog/ron-meyer/auroras-strict-gun-laws-didnt-prevent-shooting-if-one-law-abiding-person-theater-had
Drudge headlined it with "Aurora, CO ALREADY had strict gun laws..."
I'm not clear where you are getting the information regarding MAOIs. This class of anti-depressant drug has largely been replaced by tricyclics and, even more recently, the SSRIs and SNRIs, all of which have significantly lower side-effect profiles than the MAOIs.
Currently, MAOIs are usually only prescribed as a last resort when these other classes of anti-depressants have failed and the prevalence of their use is quite low.
Oh yes, I am well aware of all of this. And your right, I should have referenced SSRI/SNRI because they are more commonly used. Thus begging the question, what is the medical history of these guys who go on killing sprees? You see, that question is not allowed to be asked. The Medical Industry will move heaven and earth to protect this secret. "Suicidal Ideation" and "dissociative disorders, cognitive disorders and loss of contact with reality" are known side effects of these drugs. I will guarantee you that all of these guys were on some sort of prescription psychotropic drug for a period of time during or prior to these attacks.
I have seen too many service members commit suicide who were supposedly being treated for anxiety/depression. They just give you the drugs and then basically tell you to **** off - very little follow up or monitoring. Then, everyone is shocked when someone "goes crazy."
Here gang, read this. Seriously, read the whole thing. Millions of people take these drugs (somewhere around 20 million - no shit!) and most are under very poor medical supervision. 1/10 of one percent of one million is still a population 10000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor
QuietShootr
07-21-12, 22:27
Disgusting people....is sarah brady standing at the side of every unarmed rape or murder victim?
And to be honest I don't give a **** what the "NEW YORK Daily News" has to say on my gun rights. They can go **** themselves in the ass with a rusty spork chucked in a drill for all I care. I don't need a "new yorka's" opinion on anything.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlGKbloZlUKUXd2pCETUvnfUD4jHsNg0vBJjmKhAqLAO_zenLv
Why did no one fight back? (http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_james_holmes_batman_shooting.html)
Definite must read article regarding the CO shooting.
What a complete jackass.
I'd like to sit Mike Adams down in a dark theater with his loved ones and start shooting at him. Then Mr. Tough Guy might figure out why "nobody tried to tackle him to the ground, shoot back with their own gun, or even fight back in any way whatsoever" and he can stop being baffled.
I'm not aware of ANYONE in the theater having a firearm or any other weapon to "fight back" with. And even if somebody did have a Glock, if the shooter was wearing genuine body armor they'd probably have the same kind of luck as the cops in North Hollywood did taking on bank robbers armed with rifles and protected against handguns.
When an entire police department can't "tackle two guys" and they have handguns and shotguns I'm stunned that this jackass would expect movie goers to do anything but try and escape. He then goes on to explain how "easy it is to disarm an attacker with a gun." WTF?!?
He then goes on to suggest that he isn't trying to "blame the victims" but that is exactly what he's doing. Maybe he thinks he's ****ing Batman. What an asshole.
It was a very weird sensation tonight. I just got home from watching The Dark Knight Rises. There were 5 police cars parked out front and just as many policemen/women inside. I am enjoying the movie but part of me much of the time is imagining what those people went through in Aurora. Part of me is watching people enter and exit the theater hall. Part of me is making a plan of what to do if something happens. Where to take cover. Part of me is rehearsing mentally the presentation of my concealed M&P9 and my Surefire. Another side of me is thinking about the small child sitting directly in front me and what would happen if he was hit or in immediate danger.
I can't imagine what those people went through. All they wanted to do was enjoy a movie and this sh#$bag comes along. Its a shame that you can't even do that without your mind wondering off to the evil side of human beings.
-Jax
Mauser KAR98K
07-22-12, 00:45
What a complete jackass.
I'd like to sit Mike Adams down in a dark theater with his loved ones and start shooting at him. Then Mr. Tough Guy might figure out why "nobody tried to tackle him to the ground, shoot back with their own gun, or even fight back in any way whatsoever" and he can stop being baffled.
I'm not aware of ANYONE in the theater having a firearm or any other weapon to "fight back" with. And even if somebody did have a Glock, if the shooter was wearing genuine body armor they'd probably have the same kind of luck as the cops in North Hollywood did taking on bank robbers armed with rifles and protected against handguns.
When an entire police department can't "tackle two guys" and they have handguns and shotguns I'm stunned that this jackass would expect movie goers to do anything but try and escape. He then goes on to explain how "easy it is to disarm an attacker with a gun." WTF?!?
He then goes on to suggest that he isn't trying to "blame the victims" but that is exactly what he's doing. Maybe he thinks he's ****ing Batman. What an asshole.
Dude, if that is your reaction to a very honest question, then just turn your guns and ammo in. His question isn't pointed to the people at the movie theater, but at the Country.
For people like us, it is another CCW scenario we need to start playing in our minds, and working on during training. I know what I am going to be doing in the dark for a while. Hell, might find me some smoke bombs to use and start working Mozambique drills.
If the dark movie theater, freaked out crowd and smoke makes you want not to fight, but flee like the rest of sheep, then just turn your stuff in, save a spot for someone that does want to fight back in some capacity in a nightmare scenario, and put yourself as a MMQB. With all the gadgets we talk about on here to put on our pistols: lights, night sights, lasers, you think those are there as a tool and not a tacti-cool factor. Granted the smoke would make the light become something akin to highbeams in the fog, and hell might even make you a target, but I am pretty sure those night sights don't silhouette you.
Stop pissing and moaning, cowering and cringing; cowboy up, train, and fight the **** back!
Oh yes, I am well aware of all of this. And your right, I should have referenced SSRI/SNRI because they are more commonly used. Thus begging the question, what is the medical history of these guys who go on killing sprees? You see, that question is not allowed to be asked. The Medical Industry will move heaven and earth to protect this secret. "Suicidal Ideation" and "dissociative disorders, cognitive disorders and loss of contact with reality" are known side effects of these drugs. I will guarantee you that all of these guys were on some sort of prescription psychotropic drug for a period of time during or prior to these attacks.
I have seen too many service members commit suicide who were supposedly being treated for anxiety/depression. They just give you the drugs and then basically tell you to **** off - very little follow up or monitoring. Then, everyone is shocked when someone "goes crazy."
Here gang, read this. Seriously, read the whole thing. Millions of people take these drugs (somewhere around 20 million - no shit!) and most are under very poor medical supervision. 1/10 of one percent of one million is still a population 10000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor
It is faily well known that the effectiveness of SSRI's is not what we initially thought - especially when it comes to improving one's mood in casses of depression. There were a number of negative studies on SSRI'S that were suppressed by pharma. What we suspect is that if they do help, it is most likely by releaving some of the "negative" symptoms of depression such as apathy and loss of energy. Thus, there appears to be a danger period for suicide in the first few weeks when these medications are started. Basically, the person still has a depressed mood, but more drive and energy to act on suicidal impulses. While there is no data on mass murder, one could speculate what the effects might be...
What a complete jackass.
I'd like to sit Mike Adams down in a dark theater with his loved ones and start shooting at him. Then Mr. Tough Guy might figure out why "nobody tried to tackle him to the ground, shoot back with their own gun, or even fight back in any way whatsoever" and he can stop being baffled.
I'm not aware of ANYONE in the theater having a firearm or any other weapon to "fight back" with. And even if somebody did have a Glock, if the shooter was wearing genuine body armor they'd probably have the same kind of luck as the cops in North Hollywood did taking on bank robbers armed with rifles and protected against handguns.
When an entire police department can't "tackle two guys" and they have handguns and shotguns I'm stunned that this jackass would expect movie goers to do anything but try and escape. He then goes on to explain how "easy it is to disarm an attacker with a gun." WTF?!?
He then goes on to suggest that he isn't trying to "blame the victims" but that is exactly what he's doing. Maybe he thinks he's ****ing Batman. What an asshole.
Haven't you heard about all the teenagers and women that were trained in martial arts and disabling armed assailants :rolleyes:
The dumbass can throw out all the hypotheticals he wants but until Hero is put in that situation he has absolutely no ****ing idea how it would go down. All the tough talk and for all we know he'd piss his pants and run. Has he thought that possibly any parents didn't want to abandon their children and leave them unprotected to take on the gunman? He makes a hell of a lot of assumptions.
I don't think I even have to go into all the hypotheticals involving any CCWs that MAY have been there. How many CCWs do you know that have never had to draw let alone shoot or kill? By saying they should've drawn and taken him down is like asking a 1st year Med student to take a scapel to someone dying except in this case the reciprocal threat isn't a lawsuit it's almost certain death from a guy armored like a tank. The perp. could fire at will but Hero honestly expects somebody so freaked out by such a surreal scene to have presence of mind to acquire in a smoke filled room and shoot in mass chaos? Un-****in-real.
His misguided rant did make sense in a few places but only where he admits he has no ****ing clue what happened just like anyone else with common sense. Shocker!
Again, it's difficult to second guess what really went down there with all the confusion, the screaming, the smoke and so on. Maybe there were concealed carry weapon holders in the room but they couldn't get a clear shot. One thing concealed carry holders are always taught is to never shoot at a bad guy if there are innocent civilians behind him. (You're always trained to know what's BEHIND your target.) This might have made target acquisition difficult, but given the reality of what was unfolding, it would seem logical to pull the trigger anyway, as allowing the shooter to stand would clearly result in a great number of additional deaths.
Also, there is the distinct possibility that perhaps someone did pull a gun on Holmes, but they got shot by him first. We don't know the real story on this until more information is released by investigators. So perhaps there was someone who had the courage to fight back and we just haven't learned about them yet.
Moose-Knuckle
07-22-12, 03:23
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, although to be honest I'm not sure I should have to. I'm not saying the government didn't take part in questionable activities, but rather that they have absolutely nothing to do with the wackjob at the base of this thread.
No, you shouldn't have to nor do I for that matter. If it makes it easier for you then place me on your ignore list.
I'm not saying the government didn't take part in questionable activities, but rather that they have absolutely nothing to do with the wackjob at the base of this thread.
So you know this for fact?
Well I for one do not.
What I do know is this whole case stinks. Things don't add up (as usual) you have a young man of military age who has no criminal background and or affiliations with any terrorist/extremist groups and is describe by one former educator as "extraordinarily genius".
This will only serve to promote future restrictions on everything from civilian ownership of body armor to online sales of ammunition.
But really, why on earth would the government covertly induce a med student into mass murder at a midnight Batman showing?
Don't worry about, just keep moving along.
Are we not better here as a collective than to seriously suggest that?
God forbid some one questions the status que. . .
Edit: And while I do believe that F&F may have been a literal conspiracy to gain support for firearm restrictions, there no way this shooting was anything of the sort. None.
Well of course it doesn't, Brian Terry's blood isn't on the hands for Obama and Holder either.
Moose-Knuckle
07-22-12, 03:37
One thing most of these psychopaths usually have in common is they are social deviants, introverts, outcasts, maybe have been bullied, talked some extreme rhetoric, and usually have mental problems or have sought psychiatric help.
These are the exact prerequisites that were sought out in OSS recruits. Just saying. . .
I'm probably preaching to the choir...but we have to start looking at legitimate ways to combat psychopathic behavior before it's so ingrained in them its too late. We all know banning guns will only make them find other ways to carry out there sick plans.
Read Philip K. Dick's 'Minority Report' to see what road this leads us down.
Just saw a photo of a beautiful six year old little girl, Vernoica. Dead now with many others because of this asshole. I hope Colarado has the death penalty.
Colorado does have the death penalty.
I think when this POS starts talking, I have a bad feeling he will align himself with the Norway shooter. There's a number of parallels there, and has it not been almost year to date since that happened?
These types commonly view as role model/hero some prior POS and pattern their approach to it while trying to do it "better" and much of it seems too similar to the Norway shooter.
I think this POS will start rambling on about some "cause" he's decided to support, will say he was "inspired" by other POS and it required killing a bunch of people in a cowardly fashion to "bring attention to it" or some such twisted nonsense of the ilk.
ForTehNguyen
07-22-12, 10:38
if you look at the picture of the victims most were pretty young, probably couldnt even buy a handgun. Young kids out of school are the only ones that have the time to watch a movie at midnight. Seeing all the gear he had and the fact that he was collecting unemployment I wonder how did he get the funds to purchase this equipment.
polymorpheous
07-22-12, 10:40
Where exactly is this 100 round magazine?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/20/article-2176377-14264342000005DC-51_306x423.jpg
ForTehNguyen
07-22-12, 10:45
probably found the jammed mag on teh floor in the theater. I read some of the police comm transcripts and one part they said they saw "multiple AR magazines watch out for an AR!"
I think when this POS starts talking, I have a bad feeling he will align himself with the Norway shooter. There's a number of parallels there, and has it not been almost year to date since that happened?
I hope that you are wrong since the Norway shooter was, at least in part, politically motivated. The last thing we need as a country is people going on shooting sprees and claiming immigration, lack of welfare, etc. as a cause for their actions.
I'm betting and hoping this guy was like the AZ, Columbine, and VA Tech shooters - another disaffected loaner who watched too much internet porn and played too much Dungeons & Dragons.
polymorpheous
07-22-12, 11:21
I'm reading rumblings that he was involved with the occupy movement in San Diego.
There was a picture floating around of him,(or what looks like him), being arrested at a protest.
I hope that you are wrong since the Norway shooter was, at least in part, politically motivated. The last thing we need as a country is people going on shooting sprees and claiming immigration, lack of welfare, etc. as a cause for their actions.
I'm betting and hoping this guy was like the AZ, Columbine, and VA Tech shooters - another disaffected loaner who watched too much internet porn and played too much Dungeons & Dragons.
I hope so too but I see more similarities to this guy than I'd like to the Norway POS. That he didn't suicide and (perhaps) intended to be taken alive makes me think we have Norway copy cat. I guess we'll find out once he talks.
montanadave
07-22-12, 11:32
As others have mentioned, I'm still curious why he would take such elaborate measures to booby-trap his apartment and then tip off the police after being taken into custody.
But perhaps, as Steyr has alluded to multiple times in this thread and others, it may be simply an exercise in futility to try to ascribe some rational motive or purpose to these types of individuals.
As others have mentioned, I'm still curious why he would take such elaborate measures to booby-trap his apartment and then tip off the police after being taken into custody.
Isn't that what comic book villains do? They get caught by the hero and then to buy more time for their sinister motive they have the "time bomb" ticking down.
The guy is a nut case. You can't be a comic book villain without a bomb or death ray. If he didn't tell the LOEs then there would have been no more suspense in his story. He's acting out a role. He's intelligent but he's still a nut case.
Dude, if that is your reaction to a very honest question, then just turn your guns and ammo in. His question isn't pointed to the people at the movie theater, but at the Country.
For people like us, it is another CCW scenario we need to start playing in our minds, and working on during training. I know what I am going to be doing in the dark for a while. Hell, might find me some smoke bombs to use and start working Mozambique drills.
If the dark movie theater, freaked out crowd and smoke makes you want not to fight, but flee like the rest of sheep, then just turn your stuff in, save a spot for someone that does want to fight back in some capacity in a nightmare scenario, and put yourself as a MMQB. With all the gadgets we talk about on here to put on our pistols: lights, night sights, lasers, you think those are there as a tool and not a tacti-cool factor. Granted the smoke would make the light become something akin to highbeams in the fog, and hell might even make you a target, but I am pretty sure those night sights don't silhouette you.
Stop pissing and moaning, cowering and cringing; cowboy up, train, and fight the **** back!
So is that how you feel about all the armed cops who got tore up trying to take on the North Hollywood Bank Robbers? I don't think you are realistically assessing this situation.
This is NOT a case of a planeful of 911 hijackers who feared taking on terrorists armed with box cutters. And when it became apparant that they were doomed it seems at least one planeload did fight back.
I'm all for fighting back, more than you can understand. But at the same time I know when I'm looking at a stacked deck. And I sure as hell have seen enough things to know you can't "easily tackle and disarm a shooter."
I think if the theater stormed the shooter we'd have a lot more than 12 dead at the moment. So many things might have happened. They "might" have gotten lucky, they might have ended up with twice the body count.
When shit like that happens you don't know what is actually going on. What if they tactical vest is a suicide vest? What if there is another shooter out in the hall? What if there is another shooter in the theater? It only took two shooters to give the FBI a nightmare back in 1986 and that was out in the open. Wonder why the FBI didn't just "tackle" and disarm those guys.
Now I would have really loved it if somebody took this guy out. Hell I wish YOU and the author of that story were there to "do your thing." I even wish you two were there and were actually successful and completely prove me wrong. But if you failed I'm not gonna blame you, and I'm not gonna blame anyone else for not trying to take this guy on.
If you and the author want to blame the victims, you go right ahead.
I'm reading rumblings that he was involved with the occupy movement in San Diego.
There was a picture floating around of him,(or what looks like him), being arrested at a protest.
Poly,
Not trying to call you out but where did you read this? I am curious.
-Jax
...When shit like that happens you don't know what is actually going on. What if they tactical vest is a suicide vest? What if there is another shooter out in the hall? What if there is another shooter in the theater?...
I hate Monday morning quarterbacking and people saying "I woulda done such and such if I'da been there", but I have to say that all these "what if's" are almost the opposite end of the spectrum and essentially enable these incidents to be "successful" (in the eyes of the perp).
The fact is that our society has been highly feminized over the last few generations, and there is a decided lack of "fighting spirit" amongst most people. I don't know what I would have done - depends on where I was sitting, what I could see, who was stampeding over the top of me, whether I got shot in the first volley, etc... But I would like to think SOMEBODY who was close and not already shot would say to themselves, "**** it - this has to stop" and jumped in the middle of this guys shit.
But that is not what usually happens. It HAS happened - couple of football player students taking down a school shooter in Washington(?) or Oregon(?) a few years back (if I remember right)... the 9/11 example you mentioned... maybe others that the news media didn't cover because the body count wasn't high enough to rate lead story.
Bottom line is that the pussification of America is predominant, and in my opinion, cowardly shitbirds like this Joker psycho are also the result of that trend.
I hate Monday morning quarterbacking and people saying "I woulda done such and such if I'da been there", but I have to say that all these "what if's" are almost the opposite end of the spectrum and essentially enable these incidents to be "successful" (in the eyes of the perp).
The fact is that our society has been highly feminized over the last few generations, and there is a decided lack of "fighting spirit" amongst most people. I don't know what I would have done - depends on where I was sitting, what I could see, who was stampeding over the top of me, whether I got shot in the first volley, etc... But I would like to think SOMEBODY who was close and not already shot would say to themselves, "**** it - this has to stop" and jumped in the middle of this guys shit.
But that is not what usually happens. It HAS happened - couple of football player students taking down a school shooter in Washington(?) or Oregon(?) a few years back (if I remember right)... the 9/11 example you mentioned... maybe others that the news media didn't cover because the body count wasn't high enough to rate lead story.
Bottom line is that the pussification of America is predominant, and in my opinion, cowardly shitbirds like this Joker psycho are also the result of that trend.
I actually HATE that I am arguing this side of the issue because "generally" I'm in agreement with criticizing those who won't stand up to criminals. As an example: People who watch somebody break into their car, in their driveway but REFUSE to stop it and just look out the window while they call the police.
Some on this forum would say it would be reckless to even confront a criminal in that scenario, I personally disagree.
But I think a guy who "appears" to be wearing body armor who is armed with multiple firearms and is actively shooting people, especially in an environment that provides virtually no cover or even a concealed approach of any worth, is well beyond the expected "call to duty" of your average movie goer.
Now I would have LOVED it if a couple of guys feel down and played dead, or some folks who had only slight injuries were given the opportunity to lay hands on this asshole and stopped that shit. Even better would have been someone in the theater who had a CCW and realized they had no real viable escape option and engaged the shooter long enough for someone to get hands on him, or even better got a lucky shot and killed the ****er.
I think all of us would have loved any scenario that stopped that shit short and saved lives. But sadly that isn't as easily done as some folks seem to believe it is.
There have been a few times it has worked, such as the example you provided. But there have been several examples where even armed and trained responders got in over their heads. And with that knowledge, and what I believe is a fair understanding of the impossibly crappy situation the victims faced, I'm not going to lay any blame at their feet. I feel it dishonors them and I think it is wrong.
We also need to remember that most folks aren't trained. Most folks aren't armed. Most of them have never been in a situation like that at all and are actually damned lucky if they still have the presence of mind to even attempt to escape. I saw a few people interviewed who were frozen into place and couldn't even run. This wasn't a SWAT convention or even a theater full of firearm message board members, these were ordinary people seeing a movie and the whole thing was a tragedy.
@jaxman7 ... I believe the Occupy stuff stems from this site....
http://cheatersflorida.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/updated-is-james-e-holmes-a-occupy-black-bloc-member-he-plotted-to-kill-cops-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater-killing-12-and-wounding-59-as-batman-movie-slams-ows/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/22/massacre-suspect-james-holmes-gun-range-application-drew-red-flag-for-owner/
As others have mentioned, I'm still curious why he would take such elaborate measures to booby-trap his apartment and then tip off the police after being taken into custody.
I think there's something to this. He set his stereo to blare music at midnight and left his door cracked open with a wire right by the door. A neighbor talked about banging on the door and it coming slightly open. This coupled with the fact that the shooter didn't turn the gun on himself and police found him at his car leads me to believe that this could have actually been much worse than it really was. He clearly thought shit out and is an intelligent man based on what we already know. Putting all of this together my guess is that this booby trapped apt was a ploy that he had hoped would send all area emergency crew to his apt prior to his starting. I think this was meant to buy him some more time before first responders could arrive and my thoughts are he had intended to create more chaos elsewhere. This is just a thought but I'm glad if this was his plan it at least partially backfired.
Also, for those who keep saying they don't understand because he was so intelligent that really doesn't mean anything. If anything, those with incredibly high IQ's are more apt to snap and lose their shit. Most people who do premeditated mass murders end up being of incredibly high IQ. Just remember, anyone is capable of anything at anytime.
SteyrAUG,
I'm not really arguing with you. Just saying that in the middle of the situation, not having time to think or evaluate beyond a few seconds (if even that), I am surprised somebody didn't say to themselves, "**** it, I'm dead anyway - might as well take this POS with me."
Hell, maybe somebody DID and we just haven't heard about it yet.
Prayers out to the victims.
SteyrAUG,
I'm not really arguing with you. Just saying that in the middle of the situation, not having time to think or evaluate beyond a few seconds (if even that), I am surprised somebody didn't say to themselves, "**** it, I'm dead anyway - might as well take this POS with me."
Hell, maybe somebody DID and we just haven't heard about it yet.
Prayers out to the victims.
I get that. I hope if I found myself in such a situation where I didn't have chance I'd take a shot at it. For all we know any one of the victims did make the attempt before they were killed or wounded.
But as much as I understand that wish, I won't hold anyone in judgement for not taking a shot at it.
@jaxman7 ... I believe the Occupy stuff stems from this site....
http://cheatersflorida.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/updated-is-james-e-holmes-a-occupy-black-bloc-member-he-plotted-to-kill-cops-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater-killing-12-and-wounding-59-as-batman-movie-slams-ows/
Thanks for the link.
The P.I. writing this article maybe stretching it a little thin IMHO. He claims that James Holmes had the same M.O. as the Black Bloc. A spin off terrorist group of occupy wall street whose main goal is to kill LEOs. He links Holmes' act of rigging his house with explosives with an attempted Chicago fire bombing and a Cleveland bridge bomb plot this year. Both done by Black Bloc. He says and I quote, "Occupy Black Bloc wants to Kill Cops".
Yet what does James Holmes do after shooting all those people and is confronted by law enforcement? He throws down his weapons. So I am not sure about his ties with occupy wall street and the Black Bloc spin off group. Or maybe he got cold feet when the wus saw a weapon pointed his way. Who knows.
-Jax
First and foremost, my heart and thoughts go out to those affected by this madman's act. As someone who has lost a child suddenly, without warning, there is no greater feeling of emptiness and loss.
While this is still a fluid situation, based on what little we know, I was thinking...
- Given how quickly and quietly James Holmes surrendered, was the body armor solely for his protection, or was it also meant to terrify? One of the less obvious reasons the SAS wear gas masks when performing hostage rescue is that they found it made their troopers look more imposing, almost inhuman, providing shock value that slows the reactions of hostiles.
I can only imagine how your average civilian would react to being confronted by a shooter covered head to toe in black clothing and body armor wearing a helmet and gas mask. Thankfully, it's likely that wearing all that kit slowed him down, affected his shooting, and probably spared other people being shot.
- Why go through the trouble and difficulty of creating an elaborate series of booby traps in your apartment, and then after surrendering peacefully, volunteer that information?
People have speculated that in his shattered mind, James Holmes sees himself as a villain in the mold of Bane or the Joker; that master criminals always reveal their plans in films. Well, they typically do that when they believe the person they are telling cannot do anything about it.
James Holmes knew law enforcement would go to his apartment to further the investigation, so it stands to reason the bombs were meant for them. Yet, he reveals his plan? Very peculiar.
- How does a neuroscience PhD. candidate acquire the knowledge to construct IED's sophisticated enough that EOD weren't even sure how to enter the apartment safely, while James Homes was able to exit? Such devices require a width berth of knowledge to build from scratch: chemistry, electronics, mechanics, plus practical skills such as soldering, wiring, testing, likely tubing and glassware, perhaps welding, along with chemical processing.
- The Aurora police chief seemed all too eager to emphasize everything James Holmes purchased was legal, and that much of it came from the internet. I can already hear the call for "common sense" legislation, calling for restrictions on internet sales of magazines, body armor, and ammunition.
The reasoning will be "The gun store owner should be allowed to talk to the customer, to evaluate them, and if they so choose, deny the sale." (unless as in F&F, the ATF and FBI tell them to complete the sale anyway)
- Senator Dianne Feinstein is already calling for bans on rapid fire weapons and large magazines. Feinstein said "Weapons of war don't belong on the streets. We've got to sit down and really come to grips on what is sold to average citizens."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/22/johnson-defends-gun-rights-calls-alleged-shooter-ick-demented-evil/?test=latestnews
Feinstein also says she has no problem with citizens owning a registered gun. Only reason to register a gun is so you can take it away later.
- I notice relatively few industry professionals or SME's commenting on the Aurora shooter threads. Given that any restrictions will affect their way of life, and unless they are active duty military or on a police force; the government will be coming for their guns, too. I hope they, along with every other member and reader of this forum, are contacting their Senators and Representatives,
- Those who say no new gun control measures will come from this, I wish I was as optimistic. If the Marxist currently in office returns, he will be a lame duck president.
Remember, he was caught on an open mike telling Russian Premier Medvedev that he will have more freedom after the election.
Even if BHO loses, he still has almost three full months to issue Executive Orders and do as much damage to our Second Amendment rights as possible.
- It has come out James Holmes applied to a gun club.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/22/massacre-suspect-james-holmes-gun-range-application-drew-red-flag-for-owner/
It will stand to reason that part of the "common sense" restrictions will be to limit access to training facilities AND training classes.
If Senator Feinstein sees no reason why average citizens should have "weapons of war", then why should average citizens be allowed to train for war?
Mr. Vickers, Mr. Falla, Mr. DeFoor, Mr. Pannone, Mr. Howe, et. al. all accommodate civilians, LE and military students, alike. How much longer will they be permitted to train civilians, including military contractors?
And given that LEO are now being taught that current combat veterans are too well trained to handle the way police typically deal with people, will the aforementioned instructors be considered civilians who are too dangerous? If a civilian takes a shooting class, will that class information then be stored in a database somewhere?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-01-24/police-training-combative-veterans/52794974/1
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/july-2011/police-negotiations-with-war-veterans
- The worst thing for our Second Amendment rights will be another shooting like this in the next several months.
Make no mistake, we must be ever vigilant. We must contact our state and federal officials, emphasizing that we will not vote for anyone who even mentions new gun control laws, let alone acts on the same.
We must point out that what is to blame is not an inanimate object, but the damaged mind of James Homes. What has changed in society where some people feel this is their only way out?
ForTehNguyen
07-22-12, 17:53
woohoo lawsuits incoming? The theater shouldve known that it needed to hire special forces to guard the place :rolleyes:
BTW, locking the emergency doors is a gigantic fire hazard, #2 patdowns and detectors wouldnt have done squat because he came through the emergency door.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/20/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-injured-idUS387141306620120720
Colorado Shooting: Civil Lawsuits Likely
By Andrew Lu at FindLaw.com
Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:46pm EDT
Police have identified 24-year-old James Holmes as the suspect in the Colorado shooting at the "The Dark Knight" premiere.
At least 12 people have been killed and 59 people wounded in the Aurora shooting. There is still no word on a motive, though the shooter's mother reportedly said she was not surprised that her son committed the crime.
Details about the shooting and James Holmes continue to trickle out from around the country. "He had his hair painted red," said NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly (a friend of Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates), New York Daily News reports. "He said he was the Joker, enemy of Batman." ABC News reports that Holmes made the Joker remark to police, not during the shooting.
In the next few weeks, as investigators piece together exactly what happened, the victims of the attack will likely also think about potential lawsuits.
James Holmes himself would be the most obvious target of the lawsuit. Suing the medical school dropout would likely be merely a symbolic act to hold him both civilly and criminally liable for the horrendous shooting.
Another potential target for civil lawsuits would be Century Theaters, where the shooting took place. It was reported that Holmes entered the theater through an emergency exit before throwing off gas canisters and using at least two guns in the shooting. One may wonder just how Holmes got in through the emergency exit and if the theater did enough to protect the crowds. That said, metal detectors and pat-downs aren't standard at most U.S. movie theaters.
While movie-going is usually not a dangerous activity, the Batman premiere was a midnight showing and Century Theaters likely should have expected large crowds.
As a business that is attracting a late-night audience, Century Theaters owed a duty to its patrons to keep them safe. So steps like keeping emergency doors closed and having security personnel to conduct pat-downs of ticket holders may have been a good idea. Then again, it could be Century Theaters took all the reasonable precautions.
It's still not clear what safety measures Century Theaters took, but James Holmes allegedly made it into the theater while armed to the teeth. One can only speculate if enhanced security measures could have prevented the Colorado shooting.
ForTehNguyen
07-22-12, 18:04
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/explosives-removed-from-james-holmess-apartment-and-destroyed-officials-say/2012/07/22/gJQAL9XN2W_print.html
just an excerpt:
Colorado shooting spree could have been worse; shooter’s gun jammed, official says
By David A. Fahrenthold, Thomas Heath and Joel Achenbach, Updated: Sunday, July 22, 2:15 PM
AURORA, Colo. — New details about the midnight-movie shooting rampage here suggest that the death toll could have been even worse, as the gunman’s semiautomatic assault rifle jammed and prevented him from emptying a 100-round clip of ammunition, a law enforcement source said Sunday.
There also emerged a new twist in the narrative that indicates that the alleged shooter, identified by authorities as James Holmes, did not immediately surrender to police and could have come close to eluding capture by slipping away in the guise of a SWAT team officer.
The law enforcement source, who is close to the investigation but not authorized to speak publicly, said something went awry in the killer’s planned assault at the Century 16 theater during the midnight screening Friday of the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises.” Police said the alleged gunman had three weapons: a Remington shotgun, a Smith & Wesson M&P assault rifle, and a Glock 40-caliber handgun.
The semiautomatic assault rifle, which is akin to an AR-15 and is a civilian version of the military’s M-16, could fire 50 to 60 rounds per minute, and is designed to hold large ammunition clips. Holmes allegedly had obtained a 100-round drum magazine that attached to the weapon, the source said, but that such large magazines are notorious for jamming.
The law enforcement official said authorities believe Holmes first used the shotgun — some victims in the hospital have buckshot wounds — and then began using the assault rifle, which jammed. Then he resorted to the handgun.
Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates, interviewed on Fox News Sunday, did not confirm or deny that the gun jammed, but said police found the 100-round magazine lying on the floor of the theater. He said he didn’t know whether it was empty.
Holmes is accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 in one of the worst mass shootings in American history.
woohoo lawsuits incoming?
Maybe one of those will be about posting "no firearms allowed" signs and preventing people from being able to protect/defend themselves.
Emergency exits at all the theaters I used to use, always had alarms on them. Those alarms became too bothersome in a place where kids LOVE to play pranks on their buddies working there. :blink:
It seems like somewhere around the mid-90's, the newer theater designs starting incorporating the "emergency" exits as egress from the theaters, allowing the people who just watched the movie to exit while never interacting with the patrons heading in to the next showing down the hall, even putting bathrooms along those "emergency" routes.
Anyway, from the narrative being posted all over the net, he bought a ticket, left the through the back, propped the door open, and then came back in with the gear.
Well, they typically do that when they believe the person they are telling cannot do anything about it.
James Holmes knew law enforcement would go to his apartment to further the investigation, so it stands to reason the bombs were meant for them. Yet, he reveals his plan? Very peculiar.
For a rational person maybe but not for the irrational. What you are asking is not unlike a a person with an arm that doesn't work. You toss them a ball and they keep catching it with their one good arm. You keep wanting them to catch it with the other arm because that's normal. The problem is... they are not normal.
He could have episodes of normal / abnormal... who knows. Maybe he was less high on drugs after the shooting and became more normal and realized he better tell them. Maybe he thought it would help his case. Who knows. He could say any number of reasons why he did it but we may never know if it's true or not. The good thing is that he actually did tell them.
I've read this theory elsewhere. It's also another similarity to the Norway shooter as he also used a distraction before his rampage.
I think there's something to this. He set his stereo to blare music at midnight and left his door cracked open with a wire right by the door. A neighbor talked about banging on the door and it coming slightly open. This coupled with the fact that the shooter didn't turn the gun on himself and police found him at his car leads me to believe that this could have actually been much worse than it really was. He clearly thought shit out and is an intelligent man based on what we already know. Putting all of this together my guess is that this booby trapped apt was a ploy that he had hoped would send all area emergency crew to his apt prior to his starting. I think this was meant to buy him some more time before first responders could arrive and my thoughts are he had intended to create more chaos elsewhere. This is just a thought but I'm glad if this was his plan it at least partially backfired.
Also, for those who keep saying they don't understand because he was so intelligent that really doesn't mean anything. If anything, those with incredibly high IQ's are more apt to snap and lose their shit. Most people who do premeditated mass murders end up being of incredibly high IQ. Just remember, anyone is capable of anything at anytime.
I don't think we will ever know what his intent was. I doubt his attorney will let him take the stand and ifnanything he will only blockage about his grand plan blah blah blah.
Clearly this was something he thought long and hard about, luckilasia was was not as well planned as he would have liked to be. Or maybe it was, who knows.
It seems like somewhere around the mid-90's, the newer theater designs starting incorporating the "emergency" exits as egress from the theaters, allowing the people who just watched the movie to exit while never interacting with the patrons heading in to the next showing down the hall, even putting bathrooms along those "emergency" routes.
Doubt it. You can not place bathrooms in a means of egress exit passageway. It's against every form of the International Building Code in use around the US. In an Assembly occupancy such as a theater the second means of egress must lead directly to the public right of way of be connected to the right of way by means of a rated exit passage way. A movie theater with a floor plan doing anything but that would never be permitted for construction.
Also, the panic hardware installed on that door should sound an alarm when opened. The bar itself should say on it "Emergency Exit, Alarm Will Sound" but it does not have to be connected to any central monitoring station and most are not hard wired for power, though the better quality ones are hard wired through a power transfer hinge. This could have been a cheap model running of a 9v battery. Simply pop the cover open, pull the battery and poof... no alarm.
Obama just got off the news. told a story of a girl that stood up and got shot. the other girl with her dragged her back the asile adn applied pressure to the wound, in her neck I believe, and she is alive and well.
I saw another girl say she had the gun in her face and thought to jump away.
There were several news-caster comments about people jumping in front of bullets to save others.
That right there shows how responsible the average citizen can be. That right there is why citizens should be armed if they choose to do so.
Yet, Obama closed with the comment that basically after the dust settles on this one we( and I believe he meant the government) need to get together and prevent these types things from happening.
Something tells me he's not going to feel like that needs to happen before the first week in November.
woohoo lawsuits incoming? The theater shouldve known that it needed to hire special forces to guard the place :rolleyes:
BTW, locking the emergency doors is a gigantic fire hazard, #2 patdowns and detectors wouldnt have done squat because he came through the emergency door.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/20/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-injured-idUS387141306620120720
Probably gonna install metal detectors and the TSA at theaters. You know...to make sure we are safe.
These are the exact prerequisites that were sought out in OSS recruits. Just saying. . .
Of course they're the prerequisites because they're the most vulnerable to psychological manipulation. Cult leaders also capitalize on this. It doesn't necessarily mean the govt. was involved. I respect your right to question and disagree but it's easy to point the finger at the govt. for society's failings.
Read Philip K. Dick's 'Minority Report' to see what road this leads us down.
I'm aware of the premise. I'm not at all suggesting we gravitate toward thought police...that's a far stretch from what I posted. See below.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/22/massacre-suspect-james-holmes-gun-range-application-drew-red-flag-for-owner/
This is exactly what I'm saying. Hindsight is 20/20 but there were warning signs. I'm not at all suggesting we lay blame at the feet of the range owner. I suspect even though the lab partner had very limited interaction said he would've never thought him to be capable of this, there will be more that saw the warning signs. The mother, even though the media probably distorted what she said, may have known more.
We live in such a litigious time that people, doctors, friends, family all have their hands tied but accusations can ruin an innocent person's reputation. I don't have an answer at this point but there's a large gap between what we have now and the thought police. We can't force an adult to interact socially but we can encourage our children and be proactive and not be dead beat parents. Of course it won't stop every case but how many signs are so obvious even in early childhood?
I would be interested to see what sort of psychotropic drugs he had been prescribed over the course of his life.
You will notice a disturbing trend here. Whenever one of these guys flips out, you will find a long history of MAOI drug use. I would argue a good deal of military suicides are also related to the use of these drugs. In the medical industry they are almost universally prescribed with very little supervision or follow on care.
As gun owners we need turn this argument around. I would turn the MAOI drug problem into a talking point. We need to plant this seed everywhere we go. What exactly is causing these people to go on these killing sprees?
Yep... I would like to know that too. I see this as a clear mental illness issue. Drug related or not. combination problem... I don't know.. but that guy's brain or at least part of it was clearly not functioning properly.
I'm not clear where you are getting the information regarding MAOIs. This class of anti-depressant drug has largely been replaced by tricyclics and, even more recently, the SSRIs and SNRIs, all of which have significantly lower side-effect profiles than the MAOIs.
Currently, MAOIs are usually only prescribed as a last resort when these other classes of anti-depressants have failed and the prevalence of their use is quite low.
Oh yes, I am well aware of all of this. And your right, I should have referenced SSRI/SNRI because they are more commonly used. Thus begging the question, what is the medical history of these guys who go on killing sprees? You see, that question is not allowed to be asked. The Medical Industry will move heaven and earth to protect this secret. "Suicidal Ideation" and "dissociative disorders, cognitive disorders and loss of contact with reality" are known side effects of these drugs. I will guarantee you that all of these guys were on some sort of prescription psychotropic drug for a period of time during or prior to these attacks.
I have seen too many service members commit suicide who were supposedly being treated for anxiety/depression. They just give you the drugs and then basically tell you to **** off - very little follow up or monitoring. Then, everyone is shocked when someone "goes crazy."
Here gang, read this. Seriously, read the whole thing. Millions of people take these drugs (somewhere around 20 million - no shit!) and most are under very poor medical supervision. 1/10 of one percent of one million is still a population 10000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor
I also think pharmacology is an easy scapegoat. I can see the point that handing out drugs is a lot like handing out loaded guns without any training. People aren't really warned about the potential side effects. At the same time it's up to the patient to know the potential side effects and react accordingly just like the responsibility to train before using a gun. Problem is when someone goes OFF antidepressants and/or anti-anxiety meds like I believe was the case with the VA Tech shooter. There was a report laying blame at all sorts of levels of school admin. and mental health care as it should've been.
QuietShootr
07-22-12, 21:14
apropos of nothing:
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/explosives-removed-from-james-holmess-apartment-and-destroyed-officials-say/2012/07/22/gJQAL9XN2W_print.html
just an excerpt:
The part about "almost slipping away as part of swat" ads a twist to the full body armor that I hadn't thought of. Interesting.
I wonder if we will every know what the hell he was thinking.
The part about "almost slipping away as part of swat" ads a twist to the full body armor that I hadn't thought of. Interesting.
I never have heard why he didn't get away. Did he just not try? It seems like if he had wanted to he could actually be walking the streets right now.
polymorpheous
07-23-12, 01:03
Poly,
Not trying to call you out but where did you read this? I am curious.
-Jax
Sorry I'm late with a reply.
I hadn't seen that site that the other poster linked.
Just this picture.
http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/James-Holmes-Occupy-San-Diego.jpg
- Senator Dianne Feinstein is already calling for bans on rapid fire weapons and large magazines. Feinstein said "Weapons of war don't belong on the streets. We've got to sit down and really come to grips on what is sold to average citizens."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/22/johnson-defends-gun-rights-calls-alleged-shooter-ick-demented-evil/?test=latestnews
Feinstein also says she has no problem with citizens owning a registered gun. Only reason to register a gun is so you can take it away later.
- Those who say no new gun control measures will come from this, I wish I was as optimistic. If the Marxist currently in office returns, he will be a lame duck president.
Remember, he was caught on an open mike telling Russian Premier Medvedev that he will have more freedom after the election.
Even if BHO loses, he still has almost three full months to issue Executive Orders and do as much damage to our Second Amendment rights as possible.
- The worst thing for our Second Amendment rights will be another shooting like this in the next several months.
Make no mistake, we must be ever vigilant. We must contact our state and federal officials, emphasizing that we will not vote for anyone who even mentions new gun control laws, let alone acts on the same.
We must point out that what is to blame is not an inanimate object, but the damaged mind of James Homes. What has changed in society where some people feel this is their only way out?
Barack Obama's Gun Control Plan Focuses On 'Existing Law'
Posted: 07/22/2012 9:05 pm Updated: 07/22/2012 9:14 pm
by Sam Stein
["]"I would say that the president's views on this are as he has stated and as he spelled out in the op-ed that was published in an Arizona newspaper," said Carney, "which is that he believes we need to take steps that protect Second Amendment rights of the American people but that ensure that we are not allowing weapons into the hands of individuals who should not, by existing law, obtain those weapons."["]
["]But the repeated citation of "existing law" did suggest that both the White House and the Department of Justice will look to close current loopholes -- whether on background checks or coordination between federal and state authorities -- rather than focus on new bills. Asked at one point about the prospect of a renewed push for an assault weapons ban, Carney agreed with the questioner that "there has been opposition to that since it expired within Congress" in 2004.["]
["]If the reaction to the 2011 shooting of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) serves as a guide, there will likely to be little political appetite to pursue new gun policy in the wake of the Aurora shootings. Back then, lawmakers made a push to limit high-capacity magazines that allows a shooter to fire 30-plus rounds without having to reload.["]
Complete article
Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/barack-obama-gun-control_n_1693650.html
Will Colorado shootings inject gun control into 2012 race?
Gun control activists say the Colorado shootings should be a wake-up call, but Americans' views on guns aren't swayed by individual tragedies, polls show. The candidates know that.
By Peter Grier / July 20, 2012
"If history is any guide, however, Bloomberg is likely to be disappointed. In recent years high-profile tragedies similar to the Colorado killings have generally not produced sustained, high-level political debate about possible gun control legislation, said gun control expert Kristin Goss in an interview with Current TV."
["]“I don’t think either party has any interest in touching the subject of gun control in an election year,” said Goss, an associate professor at Duke’s Sanford School of Public Policy, on Current TV’s news blog.["]
"Polls tend to bear this assertion out. In the wake of the 2011 Tucson shootings, which left six dead and Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords gravely wounded, there was no significant change in public attitudes toward gun control and gun rights, according to the Pew Research Center."
["]“Gallup trends on gun control show that Americans have grown less supportive of strengthening gun laws in the United States over the last two decades, notwithstanding a number of tragic gun attacks during that period,” wrote Gallup’s Frank Newport and Lydia Saad in 2011.["]
"Politicians can read polls, of course, and this trend shows why it is unlikely that President Obama or other Democrats will use the Aurora tragedy as a reason to push an ambitious new gun law agenda."
Complete Article
Link: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Deco...into-2012-race
Why Don’t Mass Shootings Lead to Gun Control?
by Adam Winkler Jul 20, 2012 1:33 PM EDT
After the horrific Dark Knight massacre in Colorado, there are already calls for greater gun control. But if history is any guide, Adam Winkler says it’s unlikely that anything but sympathy will result.
"Virginia Tech may be the exception that proves the rule: no matter how many people die, gun control does not move."
"When Democrats lost their majority in the House of Representatives for the first time in 1994—which no less an expert than President Bill Clinton blamed on the passage of the Brady Bill—the party traditionally open-minded about gun control dropped the issue."
"Today, most of the major gun control advocacy groups are struggling to stay afloat. The leader of one West Coast gun control group told me recently that her group was out of money and no new grants were expected."
"Another reason for the inability of gun control to move is the difficulty of finding effective laws to prevent the shootings."
"But there are already tens of millions of such guns already in circulation."
"Unfortunately, the Dark Knight shootings in Colorado, like the previous tragedies in Columbine, Tucson, and Fort Hood, aren’t likely to inspire such political action."
Complete Article
Link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...n-control.html
Sorry I'm late with a reply.
I hadn't seen that site that the other poster linked.
Just this picture.
http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/James-Holmes-Occupy-San-Diego.jpg
thought they said he had no priors ?
could be him could be someone else as easy ?
unless I missed cause I have not bothered listening to TV today was he arrested in OWS thing or was this just a site that said he was ?
polymorpheous
07-23-12, 07:31
thought they said he had no priors ?
could be him could be someone else as easy ?
unless I missed cause I have not bothered listening to TV today was he arrested in OWS thing or was this just a site that said he was ?
Don't know.
Can't find verification on that pic.
No mention on mainstream media websites.
apropos of nothing:
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
Care to expound?
thought they said he had no priors ?
could be him could be someone else as easy ?
unless I missed cause I have not bothered listening to TV today was he arrested in OWS thing or was this just a site that said he was ?
Arrested is not convicted of a crime. Maybe the judge said gtfo of here????
Arrested is not convicted of a crime. Maybe the judge said gtfo of here????
true but would it not show he was arrested and not charged ? again not sure
just remember the other day they said he had no priors arrests ?
montanadave
07-23-12, 15:12
Apparently there was nothing on his record of sufficient concern to trigger any red flags during his background check prior to his recent purchase of the firearms he utilized during his shooting spree.
In case it hasn't been posted yet, here's a video clip of him in court this morning. Crazy ****er looks higher than a kite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOVEbqVRFM
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