View Full Version : A sad day.
PA PATRIOT
07-20-12, 13:29
Another mass shooting this time in Aurora, CO.
Fox News TV interview of Aurora Police Chief stated the shooter was armed with a AR-15, Remington 870 Shotgun and two Glock .40 pistols.
The shooter was also wearing full body armor with leg, arm, throat and groin flap and a ballistic helmet.
And lastly the shooter used two unknown types of expelling gas canisters.
71 killed or wounded.
This nut was ready for war.
It would have been very difficult for a CCW to have stopped him without scoring a face shot or a hit to a unarmored gap on the torso but this nut goes to show how far some will go to commit a evil act.
Imagine hundreds of like supplied persons running the streets which we could see during a collapse of civil order.
This is just another example of why we need to be vigilant, be equipped and to be always armed with a effective caliber/ammunition choice.
Scorpaznatica
07-20-12, 14:17
Is that confirmed information? I haven't been able to glean any of the specifics from any of the media reports, but I'm guessing by your username that you have an inside line?
If that's accurate, that's pretty wild. I can't imagine how long this must have been premeditated and planned-out for. For a civilian (a 24yo, no less) to acquire all of that armor isn't cheap... He also wired his whole apartment. I'm wondering if he didn't have outside funding and/or assistance.
Do you have any idea what the status is on the suspect? Are they holding him in custody or have things progressed any further yet?
Yeah, Philly's got it right on the weapons. I saw the same conference where the Chief of Police listed those items.
The guy is in custody.
A sad day for sure. My prayers go out to those innocent folks. Sad, sad.
Philly, you're right man. That is a sobering thought going up against a guy armored like that. Reminds me of the LA shoot-out and those bad guys were acting like they were annoyed by bees when hit with 9's.
The repercussions for gun owners with similar weapons and folks who buy armor is not going to be good. One A-hole will be used to paint a wide stroke that will paint the majority of good citizens in a bad light.
Great, right before Hillary's supposed to announce the UN Arms Treaty crap come Monday.
Moose-Knuckle
07-20-12, 23:15
No doubt.
When Mrs. Moose-Knuckle and I attend the cinema I always have a CCW, extra 17 round mag, SF E1L, and my ever present Kershaw Blur.
I'm reading A LOT of reports from the survivors about how they were thrown, kicked, stepped on, et al. as the heard panicked. It was utter chaos. Makes one stop and ponder as to what they would do if thrown in such a situation.
A good topic for this particular sub-forum.
Agreed - this is a sad event.
I have no personal knowledge of the situation - but multiple news stories say the building was posted as a No CCW area. I have seen these in the past in my area.
Also - news stories say the shooter may have used an emergency exit in the process of the murders. This report bothers me just as much as the "details" of the weapons used. Emergency Egress is also one of those things that is not really needed - unless you really need it.
Lasty - read all you can on this event. Learn everything there is to learn from the people who survived the PANIC ! Panic Kills ! The emergency Egress thing is there for a reason. Look at the Chicago night club tear gas event for proof. There are more than a few fires also if you don't get the point. I read that more than a few survivors "played dead" to avoid being targeted. As long as you don't get stompled - I can't find fault in this.
Reagans Rascals
07-20-12, 23:53
I believe this man should never have reached police custody... alive....
there are some times in life when its just time to do what needs to be done.... and that includes dead checking a few shitbags...
I'll make it very simple..... responding officer arrives on scene... confronts said shit bag... takes said shit bad into custody... drives down an alley... shoots said shit bag in the brain stem... claims said shit bag was going for a weapon... said shit bag is gone... responding officer goes home to his family... end of story
I refuse to pay taxes to try this man in court, spend years and millions of dollars, for him to simply be put in a looney bin for the remainder of his life, and after all is said and done... the families of the victims receive no retribution or harmony... which is specifically what justice is....
I volunteer if no one else is up for the job... I have a new lawnmower that I just sharpened the blades on...
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 00:00
Agreed - this is a sad event.
I have no personal knowledge of the situation - but multiple news stories say the building was posted as a No CCW area. I have seen these in the past in my area.
Also - news stories say the shooter may have used an emergency exit in the process of the murders. This report bothers me just as much as the "details" of the weapons used. Emergency Egress is also one of those things that is not really needed - unless you really need it.
Lasty - read all you can on this event. Learn everything there is to learn from the people who survived the PANIC ! Panic Kills ! The emergency Egress thing is there for a reason. Look at the Chicago night club tear gas event for proof. There are more than a few fires also if you don't get the point. I read that more than a few survivors "played dead" to avoid being targeted. As long as you don't get stompled - I can't find fault in this.
Read the book The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes and Why.... I have it in .pdf if you'd like it
but multiple news stories say the building was posted as a No CCW area. I have seen these in the past in my area.
Stuff to ponder - should you choose to visit such a business/event that both prevents you from protecting yourself & placing you in a "trap" of sorts?
Personally, I don't like such places and won't frequent them unless required. If I must, I will not sit with my back to the door and like to sit right next to the exit. My buddy is the one who awakened me to this mentality. I hassled him a bit at first about being paranoid - but I was just stupid :fie: Now I see his point - and I try and do this whether carrying or not. This sad story just reaffirms this in my mind.
I have no personal knowledge of the situation - but multiple news stories say the building was posted as a No CCW area. I have seen these in the past in my area.
In Colorado, "No Gun" signs like that don't have the force of law. There is no penalty for ignoring such posted signs and carrying a weapon anyway.
TacCommE21
07-21-12, 11:54
I second Reagan's Rascals suggestion on "The Unthinkable..." He was kind enough to share it with me and it is a solid read.
I was shocked to hear about one of the victims narrowly avoiding a shooting in Toronto. Most of us will never encounter one active shooter scenario let alone two. Bad luck I suppose.
I guess it seems too hopeful to expect that the political and knee-jerk reactionary fallout from this can be mitigated.
I believe this man should never have reached police custody... alive....
there are some times in life when its just time to do what needs to be done.... and that includes dead checking a few shitbags...
I'll make it very simple..... responding officer arrives on scene... confronts said shit bag... takes said shit bad into custody... drives down an alley... shoots said shit bag in the brain stem... claims said shit bag was going for a weapon... said shit bag is gone... responding officer goes home to his family... end of story
I refuse to pay taxes to try this man in court, spend years and millions of dollars, for him to simply be put in a looney bin for the remainder of his life, and after all is said and done... the families of the victims receive no retribution or harmony... which is specifically what justice is....
I volunteer if no one else is up for the job... I have a new lawnmower that I just sharpened the blades on...
You're sick.
Every citizen deserves due process of law. That's what makes us better than the scumbags. Read the constitution, stop worshiping Jack Bauer and grow up
As sad and tragic as this is ,on any given 3 day holiday at least as many people are slaughtered by drunk and cell phone distracted drivers. Where is the outrage!!!
I believe this man should never have reached police custody... alive....
there are some times in life when its just time to do what needs to be done.... and that includes dead checking a few shitbags...
I'll make it very simple..... responding officer arrives on scene... confronts said shit bag... takes said shit bad into custody... drives down an alley... shoots said shit bag in the brain stem... claims said shit bag was going for a weapon... said shit bag is gone... responding officer goes home to his family... end of story
I refuse to pay taxes to try this man in court, spend years and millions of dollars, for him to simply be put in a looney bin for the remainder of his life, and after all is said and done... the families of the victims receive no retribution or harmony... which is specifically what justice is....
I volunteer if no one else is up for the job... I have a new lawnmower that I just sharpened the blades on...You have no choice but to pay taxes for what ever the government wants it for. Otherwise a man with a gun will come and take you to jail.
alienb1212
07-21-12, 15:46
You're sick.
Every citizen deserves due process of law. That's what makes us better than the scumbags. Read the constitution, stop worshiping Jack Bauer and grow up
Said it before I could.
<edit> I'm really wondering if there isn't so much more to this whole story that is not being broadcast or reported. It just does not all add up....
Said it before I could.
<edit> I'm really wondering if there isn't so much more to this whole story that is not being broadcast or reported. It just does not all add up....
The news media is piss poor and agenda driven.
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 20:53
ummm.... no... the second you commit such an act, stripping life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness from another law abiding citizen, without affording them due process... you forfeit all of your rights... and you deserve what ever life happens to have in store for you... even if that is a rusty lawnmower blade.....
the problem is... there are too many of you that are hung up on the constitution and believe its a pretty warm little blanket that protects everyone.... well it doesn't... if you don't obey it and take the life of someone that does... why should you yourself still be entitled to its protection?
but I guess its more than fine to hit a 23 year old man on a mountain in Afghanistan with a Hellfire from 22,000ft over 3 miles away.... a man might I remind you, that had never once stepped foot in this country, or infringed on your rights in any single way.... but happens to be protecting his land from those he believes to be invading.... yeah.... but some **** face that shoots up a theater of people, or a college class room is innocent until proven guilty?.... **** that
montanadave
07-21-12, 20:59
ummm.... no... the second you commit such an act, stripping life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness from another law abiding citizen, without affording them due process... you forfeit all of your rights... and you deserve what ever life happens to have in store for you... even if that is a rusty lawnmower blade.....
the problem is... there are too many of you that are hung up on the constitution and believe its a pretty warm little blanket that protects everyone.... well it doesn't... if you don't obey it and take the life of someone that does... why should you yourself still be entitled to its protection?
If the protections afforded by the Constitution are nullified by anyone who breaks the law, when the Constitution contains specific provisions to protect the rights of those accused of violating those same laws, then it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 21:02
If the protections afforded by the Constitution are nullified by anyone who breaks the law, when the Constitution contains specific provisions to protect the rights of those accused of violating those same laws, then it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
the issue is... that man is not accused of anything.... he is flat ass guilty... there's a difference between cases where it behooves one to tread lightly because an innocent man may indeed be imprisoned, and where the ****er did it, admits to it, there is surveillance footage of him doing it, witnesses of him doing it, and he was caught at the scene
alienb1212
07-21-12, 21:05
the issue is... that man is not accused of anything.... he is flat ass guilty... there's a difference between cases where it behooves one to tread lightly because an innocent man may indeed be imprisoned, and where the ****er did it, admits to it, there is surveillance footage of him doing it, witnesses of him doing it, and he was caught at the scene
If he is flat-ass guilty what's the harm in going through the process?
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your point of view. You don't get to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution you like and choose to follow, while ignoring the rest. That's what the current administration does. Are you an Obama supporter? (I doubt it)
montanadave
07-21-12, 21:18
The law provides for due process and everyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty. The Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as several centuries of case law, assure that we all receive equal protection under the law.
Circumventing the system out of emotional or moral outrage is simply a recipe for mob rule and vigilante justice.
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 21:55
If any of you were directly involved in this situation, as in, sitting in the theater or had a love one sitting there... I highly doubt your stern Constitutional views would still be present... just my .002
There are times in life when actions warrant more than a paper response...
but its fine... because I'm more than sure this man will be dealt with just fine in prison... if he ever makes it to general pop... which is highly unlikely
alienb1212
07-21-12, 22:01
If any of you were directly involved in this situation, as in, sitting in the theater or had a love one sitting there... I highly doubt your stern Constitutional views would still be present... just my .002
There are times in life when actions warrant more than a paper response...
Your responses are full of emotion. This is why you are not seeing reason.
This may be a clear-cut case. Or it may appear to be. The point every mature and well-balanced adult in the thread is trying to make to you is that, while due process does have it's flaws, it's still the best system we have in place.
What if you were to take the man's life...only to find out later that he was coerced into doing it for some reason or another? Or perhaps has some kind of mental illness? I would bet my life on the fact that the media is not reporting all the information available on the shooting and shooter.
Your emotional burdens are why we have these systems in place, however flawed they may be. Your snap judgements do no-one justice.
PA PATRIOT
07-21-12, 22:07
Gentleman,
Hoping that this thread survives long enough to discuss and possibly learn something form this tragic event can we please refrain from the emotional responses.
Thank you
the issue is... that man is not accused of anything.... he is flat ass guilty...
That's right. He was caught in the act, red handed, open and shut case.
So it shouldn't be any problem for the DA to nail his bitch ass to the wall. He'll get what's coming to him.
But talking about brutally executing someone, even a scumbag mass murderer, without following the law in a civilized manner, makes it obvious that you're letting your emotions get the better of you. Calm down and remember that we have a justice system because we're better than Iran or North Korea. We are better.
He will get his just deserts, without us having to stoop to his level.
We are all outraged and angry. But good honorable intelligent men do not let emotions take control.
apparently some people think there is a conspiracy behind this event
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html
alienb1212
07-21-12, 22:43
apparently some people think there is a conspiracy behind this event
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html
Eh. May be a bit far fetched at this point in time....
We're not getting all of the information though.
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 22:48
I think you gentlemen are becoming hampered with the notion of vigilantism and emotional retribution and due process and so on and so forth...
I believe my point was not made clearly.... I do not wish to injure this man or to kill him out of emotion or hatred or some profound sense of retribution...
My sole concern... was erradicating that disease from the populous... as in.... completely removing that cancer from the blood line, so as to keep it from infecting other organisms...
in plain English.... it is in our best interest to deal harshly and swiftly with these types of parasites, to keep them from spreading their mental defect or disease to even 1 single other person...
we give this man a trial... we make a media spectacle out of it... we allow this man to make his final statement and to spew more of his Mein Kompf -like propaganda, allow his deranged message to reach just one other person who may be on the brink of a psychotic break... and we've got the same bullshit again...
the second you find out the lump is cancer.... you cut it out, irradiate it, or kill it with chemo... you do anything you can to keep it from spreading.... the more and more we allow this bullshit to continue the more and more it will continue....
PA PATRIOT
07-21-12, 22:51
This is a question I have been asking myself about the event.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_james_holmes_batman_shooting.html
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 22:58
This is a question I have been asking myself about the event.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_james_holmes_batman_shooting.html
its easy to pick apart things from the outside.... its a much different predicament when you are actually living it
Six Feet Under
07-21-12, 23:13
I don't know what I would do in that situation, whether I would play dead, try to shoot back, or just run like hell.
I do know, however, there ain't no ****in' way I'd run out leaving my girlfriend, infant son, and four year old daughter to fend for themselves like that one asshat.
Reagans Rascals
07-21-12, 23:28
I don't know what I would do in that situation, whether I would play dead, try to shoot back, or just run like hell.
I do know, however, there ain't no ****in' way I'd run out leaving my girlfriend, infant son, and four year old daughter to fend for themselves like that one asshat.
I concur.... that's the only certainty I know of in that situation...
that dude is one class act.... kinda like when the oxygen masks fall from the overhead cabins and you basically shove your wife and kids outta the way to get one....
It's entirely possible that some team tied to the UN captured this Holmes guy, drugged the shit out of him, sent their own man into the theater to do the deed, and then left Holmes in his car wearing the same gear and holding the same weapons that were used in the massacre. Patsy. No one saw the real shooters' face because of the gas mask. Convenient I'd say.
Not saying I believe what I just offered.
There's no tangible evidence to support this conspiracy theory at the moment, but it's still a possibility.
The motive is obvious. The Arms Trade Treaty.
Reagans Rascals
07-22-12, 00:47
It's entirely possible that some team tied to the UN captured this Holmes guy, drugged the shit out of him, sent their own man into the theater to do the deed, and then left Holmes in his car wearing the same gear and holding the same weapons that were used in the massacre. Patsy. No one saw the real shooters' face because of the gas mask. Convenient I'd say.
Not saying I believe what I just offered.
There's no tangible evidence to support this conspiracy theory at the moment, but it's still a possibility.
The motive is obvious. The Arms Trade Treaty.
Its also possible that I could use my penis as a pogo-stick and bounce myself to the moon.... doesn't mean its likely...
I think the real conspiracy was Bush and Katrina.... it was an Inside Job
Its also possible that I could use my penis as a pogo-stick and bounce myself to the moon.... doesn't mean its likely...
I think the real conspiracy was Bush and Katrina.... it was an Inside Job
Or you could make an argument instead of acting like a baby
Fast and Furious JUST HAPPENED, so we know these folks are willing to use a false flag operation to strengthen their case for gun restrictions.
There should not be any tin foil hat comments anymore. There are on-record, real conspiracies committed against the 2A. People need to wake up
Reagans Rascals
07-22-12, 01:16
Or you could make an argument instead of acting like a baby
I believe that was more than a valid argument... solely because something is possible.. does not warrant even the slightest belief that it is likely...
so now the UN is putting infiltrators into the US, committing acts of sabotage and terrorism... killing infants and women...then framing the mentally unstable as fall guys, all for the sole purpose of escalating the violence until the US succumbs to the Arms Treaty?
People fail to understand that shit like Ocean's 11 doesn't work.... there is always an unforeseen variable.... what would have happened... if somehow... the plan had went to shit... and the original perpetrator was subdued before they could swap in the fall guy...
there are more variables to the contrary of the plan... than there are to its success... thus... one way or another... at some point or another... the plan would be compromised and the entire thing would be brought to light...
its basic mathematics and probability.... the odds of something happening and ****ing the entire thing far outweigh the odds of success and ultimate secrecy.... it doesn't matter how well they have thought it out.. or how many people are involved... it'll come to light one way or another
Well it's only been 3 days, perhaps some strange details will break the surface.
And the MSM won't touch any of them
Reagans Rascals
07-22-12, 01:26
Well it's only been 3 days, perhaps some strange details will break the surface.
And the MSM won't touch any of them
anything is possible
Moose-Knuckle
07-22-12, 02:09
apparently some people think there is a conspiracy behind this event
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html
The timing (UN small arms treaty/election), the fact BATFE/FBI was so fast on scene much like OKC, combined with how fast the suspect was caught and taken into custody, et al.
The suspect is described by his educators as a genius and has no criminal record and or affiliations with known terrorists/extremists groups.
This is reminiscent of the old MK-ULTRA program.
Moose-Knuckle
07-22-12, 02:12
This is a question I have been asking myself about the event.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_james_holmes_batman_shooting.html
Great read, 'A culture of passive victims' is right. We didn't arrive here by accident
The timing (UN small arms treaty/election), the fact BATFE/FBI was so fast on scene much like OKC, combined with how fast the suspect was caught and taken into custody, et al.
The suspect is described by his educators as a genius and has no criminal record and or affiliations with known terrorists/extremists groups.
This is reminiscent of the old MK-ULTRA program.
The news conferences that morning smelled real fishy. Repeated references to Federal response, government services "there for you", emphasis on how "fast" response time was to the call.
It was just ODD - it just seemed to be slanted towards "the government is there for you in your time of need and we'll take care of you". However, I am more aware of such claims than others I guess.
montanadave
07-22-12, 10:05
that dude is one class act.... kinda like when the oxygen masks fall from the overhead cabins and you basically shove your wife and kids outta the way to get one....
George Costanza and the Bozo Birthday party fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnfbhdELQLA
VooDoo6Actual
07-22-12, 10:34
The news conferences that morning smelled real fishy. Repeated references to Federal response, government services "there for you", emphasis on how "fast" response time was to the call.
It was just ODD - it just seemed to be slanted towards "the government is there for you in your time of need and we'll take care of you". However, I am more aware of such claims than others I guess.
Agreed. That is Pavlovian conditioning using 4GW/5GW @ it's finest.
Agreed. That is Pavlovian conditioning using 4GW/5GW @ it's finest.
OK I got the Pavlov reference, but I was at a loss to you're reference to "4GW/5GW". :confused:
So I googled at got this first link http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4916.html
Interesting read and I want to know more.
Hop, you have any other recommended sources perhaps?
I'll make it very simple..... responding officer arrives on scene... confronts said shit bag... takes said shit bad into custody... drives down an alley... shoots said shit bag in the brain stem... claims said shit bag was going for a weapon... said shit bag is gone... responding officer goes home to his family... end of story
I think no one on this forum would openly condone the mere suggestion that "street justice" is superior to a trial.
Being on a third (and going down) country... I think the potential for disaster is simply enormous.
This weekend was an eye-opener for me. I just took a shortcut through an are that my BIL told me. Gee. Now I understand why it is called third world. I felt like being the only clean, educated person in some random shithole, except that I was with my wife.
Now I understand the expression "shady place". I really was in the wrong place. No amount of time saving is worth the risk I unknowingly took yesterday.
K.L. Davis
07-22-12, 18:22
Very good advise.
Gentleman,
Hoping that this thread survives long enough to discuss and possibly learn something form this tragic event can we please refrain from the emotional responses.
Thank you
VooDoo6Actual
07-22-12, 21:19
OK I got the Pavlov reference, but I was at a loss to you're reference to "4GW/5GW". :confused:
So I googled at got this first link http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4916.html
Interesting read and I want to know more.
Hop, you have any other recommended sources perhaps?
"The Sling & the Stone"
Col. Thomas X. Hammes USMC
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sling-Stone-21st-Century/dp/0760320594
"The Sling & the Stone"
Col. Thomas X. Hammes USMC
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sling-Stone-21st-Century/dp/0760320594
Very cool.
One can glean a lot of information from reading the reviews.
alienb1212
07-23-12, 07:07
"The Sling & the Stone"
Col. Thomas X. Hammes USMC
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sling-Stone-21st-Century/dp/0760320594
Think I found my next book purchase..
montanadave
07-23-12, 07:48
Think I found my next book purchase..
I started reading it last night. I found the author's writing style more accessible and engaging (to me, anyway) than, say, Nagl's Learning To Eat Soup With a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons From Malaya and Vietnam, although both books touch upon very similar subject material.
"The Sling & the Stone"
Col. Thomas X. Hammes USMC
http://www.amazon.com/The-Sling-Stone-21st-Century/dp/0760320594
Thanks! Just ordered it on ebay used for $3.98 delivered :D
VooDoo6Actual
07-23-12, 10:31
Thanks! Just ordered it on ebay used for $3.98 delivered :D
My pleasure Sir.
Enjoy & PLEASE share it's wisdom.
People need to know this knowledge regarding media, Pavlovian influential Conditioning et al etc.
Here's another interesting read:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/4gw-as-a-model-of-future-conflict
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