Why do people ask for advice, then go against it?

[PaulL]

If someone has some understanding of psychology that can break this down for me, I'd love to hear it.

I have people that ask for advice on a fairly regular basis. I am generally passing on what I've learned through personal experience or through the experience of an informed community (such as here). I bet fewer than 1% have ever actually done what I suggested they do. Now, I'm not an expert on everything, but I can sure tell you that a Glock is a better choice than a Hi-Point, based on the aforementioned experience. Why, then, do people INSIST on going out and choosing the Hi-Point? Is it some injury to their ego to take advice? Why did they ask in the first place?

I have one now that asked about ARs, and I recommended BCM, Colt, etc. Dude goes out and pays MORE money for a Sig. WTF? Ask my advice on a subject I'm at least marginally well-versed in and then completely throw it out the window.

This is so common that there has to be some sort of well-documented psychological aspect to it.

Sorry for the rant. I'm frustrated. http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj523/paulmlaw/Smilies/a6f9a1b4.gif

[Don Robison]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

[Hmac]

Likely has nothing to do with credibility. He found someone else that gave him the advice that he wanted to hear.

Sounds like you're ego is bruised and you've taken it personally. Ya gotta let it go. A big part of my job is giving people advice (doctor). Often they take it, sometimes they don't. You learn to shrug it off.

[warpigM-4]

I have many friends that call with "what about this is cheaper" :rolleyes: I tell them like it is even send them info that states the problems with the Cheaper items:rolleyes: sometimes you just can't fix stupid .
they Buy junk it jams doesn't shoot right and i give the I told you so look :dance3:

[SeriousStudent]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

So very this.

Mods: Go ahead and lock and sticky the thread now, please.

[SteyrAUG]

Sometimes people want to consider all the options before making their decision, other times (as noted) they were seeking nothing more than validation.

[PaulL]

Sounds like you're ego is bruised and you've taken it personally. Ya gotta let it go. A big part of my job is giving people advice (doctor). Often they take it, sometimes they don't. You learn to shrug it off.

You're probably right. I do detect a bit of sand betwixt my nether crevices... :D

If I'm reading this right, I should lead with, "What have you looked at already?" If it's crap, just shut up and move along because that's probably what they'll get regardless of my (or anyone's) advice.

That sounds like a good plan.

[Gentoo]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

I know this is the wrong forum, but first post wins again.

[TomMcC]

If someone has some understanding of psychology that can break this down for me, I'd love to hear it.

I have people that ask for advice on a fairly regular basis. I am generally passing on what I've learned through personal experience or through the experience of an informed community (such as here). I bet fewer than 1% have ever actually done what I suggested they do. Now, I'm not an expert on everything, but I can sure tell you that a Glock is a better choice than a Hi-Point, based on the aforementioned experience. Why, then, do people INSIST on going out and choosing the Hi-Point? Is it some injury to their ego to take advice? Why did they ask in the first place?

I have one now that asked about ARs, and I recommended BCM, Colt, etc. Dude goes out and pays MORE money for a Sig. WTF? Ask my advice on a subject I'm at least marginally well-versed in and then completely throw it out the window.

This is so common that there has to be some sort of well-documented psychological aspect to it.

Sorry for the rant. I'm frustrated. http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj523/paulmlaw/Smilies/a6f9a1b4.gif

Just ask them why they went the way they did. You never know, they might actually answer.

[rob_s]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

Correct, however...

Most people also offer advice based on their own wants and needs not based on whats best for the person asking for the advice. I've been house shopping lately and notice this a lot when I ask people's opinions of some of the houses I'm looking at. I get a lot of "only two bedrooms?" and "oh, you need to get the one with the pool!" when it's them that has three kids and they forget it's me and the dog and I'm too busy for pool cleaning. Hell, many of them know already that I don't want a pool. Or they see that the house is east and tell me to look west even though they know my first criteria is being east of I95.

So yes, people often don't actually want advice but very often those, offering the advice aren't coming at it correctly.

To correlate this to guns, sometimes the Oly is the right answer. Nobody on a forum like this wants to hear that, but it's the truth.

[PaulL]

I realize the Oly is metaphorical, but at least you'd be saving money with that. How can anyone justify lower quality for the same money? Maybe they just have too much money. Maybe it's mental illness... :eek:

[rob_s]

I realize the Oly is metaphorical, but at least you'd be saving money with that. How can anyone justify lower quality for the same money? Maybe they just have too much money. Maybe it's mental illness... :eek:

It's not the same money (at least it didn't used to be, maybe it's changed). It's not metaphorical, it's taking into account someone ELSE'S requirements and putting our own on hold while we try to help them make the best choice FOR THEM. If a guy only has $600, isn't going to shoot much, just wants to own an AR to say he has one, and doesn't want to buy online or accumulate parts for his ultimate internet hole-in-soul-filling wonder-build then the Oly is the best choice for him. Or whatever the cheapest equivalent is today.

Look at any one of the "what should I buy" threads here. The vast majority are "well I have an XYZ and I love it". Utterly and completely useless post. If you don't tell me what you do with it, why you like it, and what else you've tried, you may as well have just saved us all the pain of reading your drivel and yourself the wear and tear on your keyboard. And, what's worse, many of the posts will completely ignore the OP's parameters (in the rare instances that they've offered them).

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/concepts/an-unqualified-opinion

Both the requester and the responder have responsibilities.

[C4IGrant]

Normal. I see it all the time (in my shop, on the range and on the net).

People ask me my professional opinion all the time and do the exact opposite (as they know more than I). Every stinkin time it happens, a little part of my screams out; "I DO THIS FOR A LIVING! NOT PART TIME, NOT ON THE WEEKENDS AND NOT JUST ON THE ERRORNET! BUILDING GUNS, FIXING GUNS AND SHOOTING GUNS IS MY JOB!!!'

Ugh.

It is kind of like asking an auto mechanic a question and then totally ignoring their opinion (as you know more) just because you have owned a car. :rolleyes:



C4

[Moltke]

Olympic Arms is never the answer. ;)

[rob_s]

It is kind of like asking an auto mechanic a question and then totally ignoring their opinion (as you know more) just because you have owned a car. :rolleyes:



C4

it's exactly like that... Asking e guy that stands to make a buck and who has an agenda and is least likely to actually listen to what you want and need.

[Don Robison]

It's not the same money (at least it didn't used to be, maybe it's changed). It's not metaphorical, it's taking into account someone ELSE'S requirements and putting our own on hold while we try to help them make the best choice FOR THEM. If a guy only has $600, isn't going to shoot much, just wants to own an AR to say he has one, and doesn't want to buy online or accumulate parts for his ultimate internet hole-in-soul-filling wonder-build then the Oly is the best choice for him. Or whatever the cheapest equivalent is today.

Look at any one of the "what should I buy" threads here. The vast majority are "well I have an XYZ and I love it". Utterly and completely useless post. If you don't tell me what you do with it, why you like it, and what else you've tried, you may as well have just saved us all the pain of reading your drivel and yourself the wear and tear on your keyboard. And, what's worse, many of the posts will completely ignore the OP's parameters (in the rare instances that they've offered them).

http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/concepts/an-unqualified-opinion

Both the requester and the responder have responsibilities.


I don't disagree Rob except for the Oly part. ;)

[C4IGrant]

it's exactly like that... Asking e guy that stands to make a buck and who has an agenda and is least likely to actually listen to what you want and need.

Not everyone is corrupt as you think Rob. ;)


I talk more people out of ACOG's, Colt 6940's and $400 dollar muzzle breaks than I can count.

There are some good dealers out there that actually ask the right questions, define their budget and then save them money on crap that isn't needed so that they can get into a better gun.


C4

[RWK]

it's exactly like that... Asking e guy that stands to make a buck and who has an agenda and is least likely to actually listen to what you want and need.

I hear this a lot. Most of the time it's the excuse used to rationalize not heeding professional advice; usually because the person asking got a different answer than they were fishing for, or they were told it'd cost them more than they wanted to hear.

[RWK]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

^ This. Especially if the lead-in is something along the lines of "what do you think about the xyz I just bought?".


Sorry for the rant. I'm frustrated.

My advice: just walk away. So long as you've provided the best advice you can, you've done your part. If the same people repeatedly ask for advice and repeatedly ignore it, just tell them to look elsewhere from then on. "I don't have an opinion about that" works for me.

[CarlosDJackal]

I know an AD USAF NCO who is convinced that his Olympic Arms AR is superior to anything out there even though the most he's shot through his "baby" is about 200-rounds on a weekend.

This same individual once asked me what I thought about people who carry a handgun with a full magazine but unloaded (no round int he chamber). Despite the facts and anecdotes I gave him of my experiences on the matter; he still argued that he was safer carrying it this way.

Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that people will do what they want and no amount of proof will convince them otherwise. :fie:

[LHS]

I have a friend who came to me regarding his first AR purchase. I told him to get a 6920, an Aimpoint ML3 or C3 (this was before the PRO was introduced), and some good mags. He said he wanted something 'cool', and that money was no object as he had been raking in overtime money like mad. So, I pointed him to Noveske. He was drooling over the stuff.

So imagine my surprise when he shows up at the range with a DPMS topped by a low-end EOTech. He got a 'deal' on it as a package. The EOTech never even turned on, he had to send it back and get it refurbished at the factory, then sold it and bought a PRO. "I should have listened to you."

No shit, Sherlock.

[The_War_Wagon]

That way, you can have the smug satisfaction of, "I TOLD you so," in perpetuity! :D

[munch520]

OP - I've sent the this thread to a few friends to see if they'll recognize it's them you're talking about. One is particularly hilarious. Bought a used, non-functional AP just because it 'looked cool'. He's got no desire to repair it, or buy irons.

Like someone else said on page 1...breathe...and walk away.


Not everyone is corrupt as you think Rob. ;)


I talk more people out of ACOG's, Colt 6940's and $400 dollar muzzle breaks than I can count.

There are some good dealers out there that actually ask the right questions, define their budget and then save them money on crap that isn't needed so that they can get into a better gun.


C4

It's true rob, I heard a conversation where Grant talked someone out of the high dollar MBs. Ohio has some few honest people left ;)

[Wiggity]

That way, you can have the smug satisfaction of, "I TOLD you so," in perpetuity! :D




A very arrogant and self-righteous response indeed

[munch520]

That way, you can have the smug satisfaction of, "I TOLD you so," in perpetuity! :D

Ah the 'wife reflex'. Very clever :secret:

[Moltke]

I have a friend who came to me regarding his first AR purchase. I told him to get a 6920, an Aimpoint ML3 or C3 (this was before the PRO was introduced), and some good mags. He said he wanted something 'cool', and that money was no object as he had been raking in overtime money like mad. So, I pointed him to Noveske. He was drooling over the stuff.

So imagine my surprise when he shows up at the range with a DPMS topped by a low-end EOTech. He got a 'deal' on it as a package. The EOTech never even turned on, he had to send it back and get it refurbished at the factory, then sold it and bought a PRO. "I should have listened to you."

No shit, Sherlock.

Aww.. what an uplifting story.

[PaulL]

Just to be clear, this is the scenario:

Them: I want a good quality, reliable AR. I want to keep it a long time and shoot it a lot. I don't want some cheap piece of crap. I know you're into this stuff, so what do you recommend?

Me: Cool, your head's in the right place. How much money do you have to spend on the rifle?

Them: $1200

Me: No prob. Look at Colt, BCM, etc. Buy the gun and some ammo and have fun. Shoot it and see what else you need later.

Them: Check out my new Del-Ton I got for $1000! I got this one 'cause the guy at the gun store said these were the best! It came with this NCStar light/laser/survival knife combo, too. The total was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it's ok.

Me: Did you get some ammo? Mags?

Them: I got a box of Zombie MAX and it came with a mag. Why do you ask?

Me: :suicide2:


That's honestly just almost a completely true story. I think I'm just going to STFU and walk away from now on. I forget that's often the best way to avoid most of life's problems.

Glad to see I'm not the only one, though. :D

Thanks for the input.


ETA: I just realized this sounds very close to that video with the cartoon bears or whatever. That should have been my first clue that things would not end well. Hindsight...

[d90king]

Because many times they don't actually want advice; they want validation of the decision they've already made.

I believe this to be the correct answer. They will continue down the line until they find the idiot who says "hell yeah, Sig makes the best stuff evAR, that's the reason SEAL's use them"...

[Dienekes]

Einstein once stated his belief that stupidity was the greatest force in the universe.

I sort of think he may have been on to something there. :secret:

[Gramps]

Ask them, "Why do you want my opinion"? "Is your mind already made up"? "If you just want validation, then just tell me what your going to buy, no matter what advice I give you". If you are really going to listen, then I will answer your question.