View Full Version : Oregon man sentenced for rain "reserviors"
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/oregon-man-sentenced-30-days-jail-collecting-rainwater-his-property
Excerpt:
A rural Oregon man was sentenced Wednesday to 30 days in jail and over $1,500 in fines because he had three reservoirs on his property to collect and use rainwater.
Gary Harrington of Eagle Point, Ore., says he plans to appeal his conviction in Jackson County (Ore.) Circuit Court on nine misdemeanor charges under a 1925 law for having what state water managers called “three illegal reservoirs” on his property – and for filling the reservoirs with rainwater and snow runoff.
“The government is bullying,” Harrington told CNSNews.com in an interview Thursday.
“They’ve just gotten to be big bullies and if you just lay over and die and give up, that just makes them bigger bullies. So, we as Americans, we need to stand on our constitutional rights, on our rights as citizens and hang tough. This is a good country, we’ll prevail,” he said.
Excerpt:
According to Oregon water laws, all water is publicly owned. Therefore, anyone who wants to store any type of water on their property must first obtain a permit from state water managers.
Harrington said he applied for three permits to legally house reservoirs for storm and snow water runoff on his property. One of the “reservoirs” had been on his property for 37 years, he said.
Reagans Rascals
07-27-12, 09:27
well that state can eat my asshole with a fork....
its right there in bold ****ing print.... the water is considered "publicly owned"... which means... he indeed owns it...as well as everyone else... and can do what he likes... that does not mean however; the state government can tell you what you can and cannot do with it
davidjinks
07-27-12, 09:38
It's frickin rain water for Pete's sake! Last I checked rain was free.
Not in Oregon, apparently. Just another example of how we're not as free as we might think.
QuietShootr
07-27-12, 10:25
They're pushing us.
It is a long going legal battle because of possible dams that divert water from what I read. I have heard of stories of people getting in trouble from rain barrels that collect water from the gutters on a persons house, but this doesn't seem the case. I think it is stupid that Oregon can claim any and all rights on water in the state, including bottled water.
TriumphRat675
07-27-12, 10:40
These laws are common, have been around forever, and are worthwhile.
There is a limited amount of fresh water, period. So the government regulates how you, or anybody, can use it, with the goal of making sure there is enough to go around for agriculture, residential and commercial use, power plants, etc.
This jackass has an over-exercised sense of entitlement and thinks that he can store more fresh water than he can ever possibly use. Perhaps his individual use has a negligible effect on everyone else downstream of him. Perhaps not. But certainly a thousand people acting the same way will have a bad effect on others. Hence, these laws exist - as noted, they have existed all over the US, not to mention the world, for a long time and are good uses of the government's police power.
And, FYI, "publicly owned" doesn't mean that you, individually, get to do whatever you want with it. That's like saying that since Yellowstone National Park is publicly owned you should be allowed to quarry El Capitan for gravel.
I can't stand the vast majority of these dirtbag journalists.
The headline says he was sentenced for collecting rainwater.
Then about 3/4 down the article it says he was damming the river. Of course, the defendant disagrees, saying that he owned that particular stream of water, but that's not the point.
The point is that this has nothing to do with ****ing "rain water" in the traditional sense of how people collect it, unless you want to consider the water flowing in a river to be "rain water."
In that way, it's ALL rain water. So if I steal a gallon of water from Walmart, I'm stealing rain water. Somebody call Kendra Alleyne, shitbag-journalist, of CNSnews.
well that state can eat my asshole with a fork....
oh thats going to hurt :fie: a spoon maybe but not a fork haha
I can't stand the vast majority of these dirtbag journalists.
The headline says he was sentenced for collecting rainwater.
Then about 3/4 down the article it says he was damming the river. Of course, the defendant disagrees, saying that he owned that particular stream of water, but that's not the point.
The point is that this has nothing to do with ****ing "rain water" in the traditional sense of how people collect it, unless you want to consider the water flowing in a river to be "rain water."
In that way, it's ALL rain water. So if I steal a gallon of water from Walmart, I'm stealing rain water. Somebody call Kendra Alleyne, shitbag-journalist, of CNSnews.
A stream running through your property, even it originates there (spring or such) isn't owned by you. This is a facet of common law going back since forever. There were days in the past when shitbirds like him who damned streams would have been killed by his neighbors.
Horrifically bloody wars have been fought over this very thing, right in this very nation. Before the Ogallala was discovered their were years long battles fought in the plain states that made the Hatfield/McCoy feud look like a schoolgirl tiff.
This simply isn't a "property rights" issue at all.
A stream running through your property, even it originates there (spring or such) isn't owned by you. This is a facet of common law going back since forever. There were days in the past when shitbirds like him who damned streams would have been killed by his neighbors.
Horrifically bloody wars have been fought over this very thing, right in this very nation. Before the Ogallala was discovered their were years long battles fought in the plain states that made the Hatfield/McCoy feud look like a schoolgirl tiff.
This simply isn't a "property rights" issue at all.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. But of course the author of the article just wants to write something inflammatory, so she focuses on the "collecting rain water" angle. Then the anti-civilization radicals get riled up because "the gummint's taken are wrane warter!1!11!!"
For ****'s sake.
That's what I was getting at. But of course the author of the article just wants to write something inflammatory, so she focuses on the "collecting rain water" angle. Then the anti-civilization radicals get riled up because "the gummint's taken are wrane warter!1!11!!"
For ****'s sake.
People get riled up by anecdotal evidence all the time. The first few posts in this thread prove that point.
People get riled up by anecdotal evidence all the time. The first few posts in this thread prove that point.
I really don't think many people bother to read the source articles.
I really don't think many people bother to read the source articles.
Why would they need to? Cherry picking statements from the source material to further your agenda is done by the media all the time, so why not cherry pick from media sources as well?
I may get a talking to for but............ it's a ****ing pond! How in the hell is that illegal?
I may get a talking to for but............ it's a ****ing pond! How in the hell is that illegal?
If the reporting is correct, it isn't the pond per se that he is getting the fine and jail time, but defying a court order, daming the stream, and not getting the permits issued again after they were taken away.
Belmont31R
07-29-12, 00:16
Collecting rain water isn't even close to the same thing as damming up a stream, and depriving people down stream of naturally flowing water through their property. Its not like having rain barrels getting filled off gutters.
Defying court orders isn't a very smart move.
GeorgiaBoy
07-29-12, 03:09
I think people take the term "publicly owned" to seriously sometimes.
It's like people that intentionally hunt and fish on state-run public lands and waterways without proper licensing and proper permits to prove a point that they shouldn't have to pay to hunt on "their" land/waterways.
Just because something is "owned" by the "public" does not mean that there are no rules or regulations regarding its use.
The same story from the local paper with a lot less vitriol and hyperbole. Seems that a jury of his neighbors didn't see it his way either, not to mention his attorney. Mr. Harrington was never arrested, he was issued a fine, several it seems, as well as a decade of cease and desist orders.
Local man disputes 9 water convictions
Gary Harrington says collecting runoff in ponds on his land isn't against the law
July 15, 2012
Mark Freeman
By Mark Freeman
Mail Tribune
A rural Eagle Point man vows to continue his decade-long legal fight with state water managers over what they say are three illegal reservoirs and what he says are merely ponds holding rain and snow runoff from his property.
Gary Harrington said Friday that he plans to appeal his conviction last week on nine misdemeanor charges for filling his reservoirs with rain and snow runoff that the state maintains is owned by the Medford Water Commission.
Harrington said he stores the water mainly for fire protection.
Harrington objects to the way the Oregon Water Resources Department interprets a 1925 state law granting the commission broad water rights to the Big Butte Creek Basin and believes he's been singled out for prosecution amid other pond owners in the basin.
"When it comes to the point where a rural landowner can't catch rainwater that falls on his land to protect his property, it's gone too far," Harrington said.
"This should serve as a dire warning to all pond owners."
State water officials hope Harrington's scheduled July 25 sentencing on the misdemeanors marks an end to what they consider a constant and tiring battle. The legal dispute has dragged through the state court system in one form or another since he was first convicted of illegally taking water without a permit in 2002.
"Water law is water law, whether you agree with it or not," Jackson County Water Master Larry Menteer said.
At the request of the Jackson County District Attorney's Office, Harrington's case was prosecuted by the state Department of Justice. DOJ prosecutor Patrick Flanagan handled the case; he declined to comment until after Harrington's sentencing.
After years of representation by a Medford attorney, Harrington fired his counsel in May and represented himself in his trial, which opened Tuesday. It ended Wednesday with a six-member jury ruling for convictions on three counts each on charges of illegal use of water denied by a watermaster, unauthorized use of water and interfering with a lawfully established head gate or water box.
The charges are either Class B or unclassified misdemeanors. Harrington pleaded guilty to similar charges in 2002 and applied for permits for his reservoirs, but they were denied.
At issue is the interpretation of a law passed in 1925 by the Oregon Legislature giving the water commission exclusive rights to all the water in Big Butte Creek, its tributaries and Big Butte Springs — the core of the city's municipal water supply.
In court filings Harrington has argued that he's not diverting water from the creek system, merely capturing rainwater and snowmelt from his 172 acres along Crowfoot Road.
Harrington has maintained that this runoff, called "diffused water," does not fall under the state water-resources jurisdiction and does not violate the 1925 act.
In the past, water managers have concluded that the runoff is a tributary of nearby Crowfoot Creek and thus subject to the law.
"It's a 10-year-old case," said Janelle McFarland, the original Oregon State Police trooper who investigated the initial complaints but has since retired. "Mr. Harrington was given every opportunity to comply with the water law and he chose not to."
Bold italics are mine.
A wee bit more info on water in the local area. Again, I have highlighted a few points that I think demonstrate a clear and convincing public interest in the local government controlling water rights in this area. Read below and decide for yourself.
Little Butte Creek is a 17-mile (27 km) long tributary of the Rogue River located in the U.S. state of Oregon. Its drainage basin consists of approximately 354 square miles (920 km2) of Jackson County, and another 19 square miles (49 km2) in Klamath County. The north fork of the creek begins at Fish Lake, while the south fork begins near Brown Mountain. The two forks flow generally west until they meet near Lake Creek. The creek then flows through the communities of Brownsboro, Eagle Point, and White City, finally emptying into the Rogue River about 3 miles (4.8 km) west of Eagle Point.
Little Butte Creek's watershed was originally settled by the Takelma, and possibly the Shasta tribes of Native Americans. In the Rogue River Wars of the 1850s, most of the Native Americans were either killed or forced onto Indian reservations. Early settlers named Little Butte Creek due to its close proximity to Mount McLoughlin, formerly known as Snowy Butte. In the late 19th century, the watershed was primarily used for agriculture and lumber. The city of Eagle Point was incorporated in 1911, and remains the only incorporated town within the watershed's boundaries.
Large amounts of water are diverted from Little Butte Creek to aid in irrigation and water storage. Systems of canals deliver the water to nearby Howard Prairie Lake and the Klamath River watershed, Agate Lake, and the Rogue Valley.
Despite being moderately polluted, the creek is known to be one of the best salmon producing tributaries of the Rogue River. Coho and Chinook salmon migrate up the creek each year; however, several dams hinder their travel upstream. A fish ladder was built in 2005 to help fish swim past a dam constructed in Eagle Point in the 1880s, but was destroyed by flooding three months later. It was rebuilt in 2008. Plans to restore a 1.3-mile (2.1 km) section of the creek below Eagle Point that was bulldozed in 1955 have also been proposed.
COURSE
Little Butte Creek begins in the Cascade Range near Mount McLoughlin and Brown Mountain. It flows generally west over approximately 17 miles (27 km) to its confluence with the Rogue River.[3][5] There are two main forks of Little Butte Creek: the north fork and the south fork. The south fork of the creek drops from 5,713 feet (1,741 m) above sea level at its source, the north fork from 4,638 feet (1,414 m).[Note 3] They meet each other at 1,647 feet (502 m).[Note 1] The creek's mouth is located at 1,204 feet (367 m).[4] Overall, Little Butte Creek drops approximately 25 feet per mile (4.8 m/km).[3]
The north fork begins at Fish Lake, near Mount McLoughlin.[10] It flows west, collecting only minor tributaries, before merging with the south fork.[10] The south fork's headwaters are just south of the 7,311-foot (2,228 m) tall Brown Mountain.[3] The Pacific Crest Trail passes through this area.[11] It flows west, receiving Beaver Dam Creek and Dead Indian Creek on the left bank.[10] Beaver Dam Creek drains approximately 28 square miles (73 km2), while Dead Indian Creek has a watershed of about 22 square miles (57 km2).[3] The Dead Indian Soda Springs are located on Dead Indian Creek, about a mile south of its confluence with the south fork.[12] The south fork then turns northwest, collecting water from Lost Creek on the left, near the Lost Creek Bridge, built in 1919.[10] Lost Creek drains about 17 square miles (44 km2).[3]
Just after the two forks merge about 15 miles (24 km) northeast of Medford,[13] Little Butte Creek receives Lake Creek on the left bank, flowing through the community of the same name at river mile (RM) 17 or river kilometer (RK) 27.[5][10] Lake Creek drains 15 square miles (39 km2).[3] The creek is crossed by South Fork Little Butte Creek Road in Lake Creek.[5] Water is diverted here into the Joint System Canal to provide irrigation for the Medford region and to fill Agate Lake.[6] A few miles west, it receives Salt Creek and Lick Creek on the right bank, which have watersheds of 17 and 16 square miles (44 and 41 km2), respectively.[3] Oregon Route 140 crosses the creek at RM 10 (RK 16).[14]
The creek turns southwest, flowing through Eagle Point.[3] Two roads span the stream in Eagle Point: East Main Street at RM 5 (RK 8), and Oregon Route 62 at RM 4 (RK 6).[15] Near RM 3 (RK 5), Little Butte Creek receives Antelope Creek on the left. Antelope Creek is its largest tributary, draining 58 square miles (150 km2).[3][6] Agate Lake on Dry Creek is located in the Antelope Creek watershed.[3][10] At RM 1.5 (RK 2.4) the creek is crossed by Agate Road.[16] It then flows into the Rogue River 132 miles (212 km) from its mouth at the Pacific Ocean.[17] Little Butte Creek's mouth is located approximately 3 miles (4.8 km) south of Eagle Point, and about 1 mile (1.6 km) southeast of Upper Table Rock, in the Denman Wildlife Area.[3][1
DISCHARGE
The United States Geological Survey monitored the flow of Little Butte Creek at seven different stream gauges: two on the south fork, three on the north fork, and two on the main stem. The first was opened in 1908 at the newly constructed Fish Lake Dam on the north fork, while the last was opened in 1927 near the Big Elk Ranger Station on the south fork. By 1989, all seven were closed. The data recorded by the lowermost gauges of both forks and the main stem are listed below.
WATERSHED
Little Butte Creek drains approximately 373 square miles (970 km2) of southern Oregon. Farmland accounts for about 32 percent of the total area of the watershed, while 65 percent is forested. The remaining three percent is within the Eagle Point city limits. Elevations range from 1,204 feet (367 m) at the mouth of the creek to 9,495 feet (2,894 m) at the summit of Mount McLoughlin, with an average of 3,496 feet (1,066 m).[3] Forty-eight percent of the watershed is federally owned, 50 percent is privately owned, and Eagle Point accounts for the remaining two percent.[6] Over 10,000 people live within the watershed's boundaries.[3]
Temperatures average from 90 °F (32 °C) in the summer to 20 °F (−7 °C) in the winter. The climate in the region is Mediterranean.[3] The average precipitation in the area ranges from 19 inches (480 mm) in the lower regions to over 50 inches (1,270 mm) in the upper reaches. July through October are the driest months, while December through April are the wettest. Thirty-four percent of the surface runoff in the watershed is collected from rain, 31 percent from rain on snow, and 35 percent from snowmelt.[3]
As of 2003, there were 581 water rights recorded in the watershed, 394 of them for various types of irrigation. 466 water diversions were also recorded. These factors have led to frequent water shortages along the lower portion of the creek. In the summer, many streams in the watershed have more rights to water than there is water in the stream.[3][24]
The two main geologic regions in the Little Butte Creek watershed are the High Cascades and the western Cascades. The western Cascades make up the western two thirds of the watershed, generally below 4,800 feet (1,500 m) in elevation. Steep, rugged canyons are common in this region. The lower stretches of the watershed contain soils such as decomposed lavas, clay, and gravel.[3][25] The High Cascades are located in the eastern third of the watershed, including volcanoes such as Brown Mountain and Mount McLoughlin, and plateaus made of lava. In some places, streams descend over 300 feet per mile (56.9 m/km).[3] Nearby watersheds include two Rogue River tributaries—Big Butte Creek to the north and Bear Creek to the south—and small Klamath River tributaries to the east.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Butte_Creek_%28Rogue_River%29
montanadave
07-29-12, 07:09
Water rights law, particularly in western states, is complicated and a legal specialty in its own right. And folks take their water rights DAMN SERIOUS. Some of this shit may seem beyond silly to most people, but to livestock producers and irrigators down stream, any diversion of surface waters is going to raise a red flag. And in most western states, due to the makep of the state legislatures and a hundred plus years of water law, the deck is stacked in the ag industries favor and those holding water rights dating back years.
I'd like to put rain gutters on my pole barn, drain them into a couple of pipes, and run the pipes into a stock tank 100' away for the wildlife on my property. The fact that the rainwater will simply fill a hundred gallon stock tank with an overflow seems like a no-brainer but I'm still going to have to make a few inquiries.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
PA PATRIOT
07-29-12, 12:03
A little off subject but another water related issue.
In Philadelphia we are charged a fee for rain water run off from are property's which enter the sewer system. The water commission assigns square footage values depending on the neighborhood you live in and that is used to calculate your run off bill.
I call this total bull shit since its a fixed monthly amount and not based on actual rain fall totals for the area. Your paying even when there is a drought or if you collect the rain water and use it for garden irrigation.
Just another way the system screws everyone to collect fee's.
I may get a talking to for but............ it's a ****ing pond! How in the hell is that illegal?
Let's say you dam a wet weather creek that flows through your property to create a 1 acre pond. During normal rainfall it isn't any issue at all. The excess water flows over your spillway and on to your neighbors. Now you get a drought. Your pond dries up. Then you get rain, but only enough to fill up your pond. Nothing runs off. You just deprived everyone downstream of their water rights. Your livestock are great, theirs have to be sold off at well below market value because they can't provide them with enough water.
See the issue? :(
GeorgiaBoy
07-29-12, 23:30
Let's say you dam a wet weather creek that flows through your property to create a 1 acre pond. During normal rainfall it isn't any issue at all. The excess water flows over your spillway and on to your neighbors. Now you get a drought. Your pond dries up. Then you get rain, but only enough to fill up your pond. Nothing runs off. You just deprived everyone downstream of their water rights. Your livestock are great, theirs have to be sold off at well below market value because they can't provide them with enough water.
See the issue? :(
Not exactly. Most people won't rely on a "wet weather creek" to supply livestock water, much less the runoff from other ponds. Damming up a low-lying area's stream to make a pond isn't a big deal, and it works the same way you describe. Most people down-stream won't be greatly affected by it.
Its damming up major creeks, usually those than run into rivers, that mainly causes problems like you describe. Creek tributaries are what you are talking about.
Low area -> swamp -> wet weather creek/creek tributary -> major creek -> river
Not exactly. Most people won't rely on a "wet weather creek" to supply livestock water, much less the runoff from other ponds. Damming up a low-lying area's stream to make a pond isn't a big deal, and it works the same way you describe. Most people down-stream won't be greatly affected by it.
Its damming up major creeks, usually those than run into rivers, that mainly causes problems like you describe. Creek tributaries are what you are talking about.
Low area -> swamp -> wet weather creek/creek tributary -> major creek -> river
You should look at the topography around the area in question; it isn't anything like Georgia.
GeorgiaBoy
07-30-12, 01:58
You should look at the topography around the area in question; it isn't anything like Georgia.
Yeah, I suppose you are right. But I'm not sure of what type of topography glocktogo was referring too, either.
Moose-Knuckle
07-30-12, 03:42
“Multinational companies now run water systems for 7 percent of the world’s population, and analysts say that figure could grow to 17 percent by 2015. Private water management is estimated to be a $200 billion business, and the World Bank, which has encouraged governments to sell off their utilities to reduce public debt, projects it could be worth $1 trillion by 2021. The potential for profits is staggering: in May 2000 Fortune magazine predicted that water is about to become ‘one of the world’s great business opportunities’, and that ‘it promises to be to the 21st century what oil was to the 20th.” —John Louma, “Water Thieves,” The Ecologist, March 2004
After he acquired more water rights than any other individual in the US back in '08 (by perfectly legal Capitalist means mind you); T. Boone Pickens was quoted in an interview saying 'If I could find a way to charge people for the air they breathe I would'.
The 'people's water' (has a Marxist ring to it doesn’t ;)) really isn't the 'people’s' water so much as it is those who are in positions of power.
This whole thing sounds like the plot of "Quantum of Solice"
Moose-Knuckle
07-30-12, 15:31
This whole thing sounds like the plot of "Quantum of Solice"
"Art imitates life".
There are some informative publications on the matter by Beltway think tanks staffed by former Joint Chiefs that suggest within the next few decades nation states will be warring over potable water.
"Art imitates life".
There are some informative publications on the matter by Beltway think tanks staffed by former Joint Chiefs that suggest within the next few decades nation states will be warring over potable water.
The Darfur conflict is largely about potable water. Water scarcity fears in Africa and parts of the Middle East (particularly the UAE) are some of the central reasons for cooperation with the US, as we provide them desalinization equipment and know-how. It's already a large part of the diplomatic /strategic equation for sure.
Yeah, I suppose you are right. But I'm not sure of what type of topography glocktogo was referring too, either.
Since it was Oregon, I was assuming western type terrain. I'm sure they probably have some low lying areas as well, but you're correct that it's more of an issue for western states. I had two ponds on 35 acres in Eastern OK (hill type country). I also has a wet weather creek, but neither pond was a result of damming the creek. Doing so would've caused issues with neighbors due to rainfall stats, not to mention issues with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which can bring federal regulatory authority to bear.
It's frickin rain water for Pete's sake! Last I checked rain was free.
No its not, its command & control...
If this guy was getting the book thrown at him for collecting rain off his roof into cisterns or barrels, it would be a justifiable outrage. But you can't screw with a stream that many other peoples' land borders.
montanadave
07-31-12, 07:07
Most folks are absolutely clueless with respect to water rights. Think water is just free for the taking? Guess again. Here's the relevant language from the Montana state constitution:
“All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for beneficial uses as provided by law.”
And the "appropriation for beneficial uses as provided by law" refers to water rights, which are considered by courts to be as real as the property your house is built on with one critical difference. Water rights are a "use it or lose it" proposition. You may have a piece of paper which says you own water rights on a particular piece of land, but if that right has not been exercised, don't be surprised if somebody else doesn't challenge your efforts to initiate diversion or irrigation.
Additionally, in 1973, the Montana state legislature passed the Montana Water Use Act, which required anyone seeking to change the point of diversion, place of use, or purpose of use of a water right to seek prior approval from the DNRC (Department of Natural Resources and Conservation), with the burden of proof on the applicant to demonstrate any proposed changes do not adversely affect the water rights of anyone else.
Like I said before, water rights are complicated shit and if a landowner doesn't do his homework, he's likely to end up in court. Water rights might not be as central an issue in states with more rainfall and surface water, but the tide is turning (pardon the pun). Here's a primer on Montana water rights and don't be surprised if something similar isn't on the legislative agenda of your state, if it isn't already in place.
http://www.tu.org/atf/cf/%7B0D18ECB7-7347-445B-A38E-65B282BBBD8A%7D/TU%20WATERRIGHTS%20CORRECTED%20web.pdf
Many people consider potable water to become a dominant issue in the coming years. As certain population centers explode, new and improved methods of water diversion for irrigation and the potential for extended droughts are realized, something will have to give. :(
QuietShootr
07-31-12, 11:12
This is exactly why I'm having a fight with my town right now over water/sewer. I have a (recently tested again) perfectly good well and septic system, and the town is INSISTING that I shut them down and pay $15,000 to connect to the town water and sewer, which did not exist when this house was built. **** you, jack. And if for some reason they do manage to legally force me to connect to the town water, I'm going to put in a gate valve and just not use any of it. **** you, jack.
And before someone starts in with environmental reasons for sewers blah blah blah, I live in the woods, in sandy soil that is textbook perfect for a septic system, and I have no neighbors that could be affected by the system even if it DID fail and started pumping raw shit into my yard.
It's all about control.
Finding extra water in the pacific northwest is as rare as finding chinamen in china.
QuietShootr
07-31-12, 18:36
Finding extra water in the pacific northwest is as rare as finding chinamen in china.
Dude, Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
Finding extra water in the pacific northwest is as rare as finding chinamen in china.
An overly broad generalization.
The weather in Eagle Point more closely resembles Flagstaff, AZ, than Portland, OR or Seattle, WA, with their high rainfall levels.
Average Annual Precipitation 18.37 inches
Monthly Average Precipitation, Eagle Point, Oregon
January 2.47 Inches
February 2.1 Inches
March 1.85 Inches
April 1.31 Inches
May 1.21 Inches
June 0.68 Inches
July 0.31 Inches
August 0.52 Inches
September 0.78 Inches
October 1.31 Inches
November 2.93 Inches
December 2.9 Inches
montanadave
07-31-12, 20:34
Finding extra water in the pacific northwest is as rare as finding chinamen in china.
Ever spend much time out around Burns?
platoonDaddy
08-02-12, 10:20
Juneau man gets DUI on raft in Chena River
Aug 01, 2012 | 47944 views | 19 19 comments | 28 28 recommendations | email to a friend | print
FAIRBANKS — A Juneau man faces a rare DUI charge for allegedly having a 0.313 breath-alcohol content as he floated through Fairbanks on an inflatable raft Sunday night.
Alaska’s driving under the influence law applies to people operating motor vehicles, water craft and airplanes. The vast majority of charges are for terrestrial motor vehicles.
But when Alaska State Troopers received a report of a “heavily intoxicated” man floating down the Chena River near the Parks Highway bridge at 6:40 p.m. Sunday, a wildlife trooper boat responded and arrested 32-year-old William Modene.
“Modene had been floating on the river for the day and consuming alcoholic beverages the entire time,” troopers wrote in their “daily dispatches” log on their website.
At 0.313, Modene’s breath-alcohol content was almost four times the legal limit for operating a vehicle, 0.08.
http://newsminer.com/bookmark/19659421-Juneau-man-gets-DUI-on-raft-in-Chena-River
Sorry but this kinda crap kills me. When they make a law stiffer to get the really bad guys and then a LEO who should know when to use "professional judgement" to arrest or not to arrest abuses the law. When I lived in MT the town was 18 blocks long and people would go to the bars and get drunk and drive home and the responsible drinkers would not drive motor vehicles, but would often have a bike, skateboard or whatever. I knew one gal who got a DUI for riding her scooter (Jack & Jill type no motor) the 12 blocks to her house and she had gone to college to be a teacher & was a being hired as a school teacher in the Fall... teaching career OVER! 24 yrs old and her career is F'd because the cop thought it would be cool to give someone a DUI on a push scooter. Ridiculous! I just don't get the lack of common sense these days:rolleyes:
Sorry but this kinda crap kills me. When they make a law stiffer to get the really bad guys and then a LEO who should know when to use "professional judgement" to arrest or not to arrest abuses the law. When I lived in MT the town was 18 blocks long and people would go to the bars and get drunk and drive home and the responsible drinkers would not drive motor vehicles, but would often have a bike, skateboard or whatever. I knew one gal who got a DUI for riding her scooter (Jack & Jill type no motor) the 12 blocks to her house and she had gone to college to be a teacher & was a being hired as a school teacher in the Fall... teaching career OVER! 24 yrs old and her career is F'd because the cop thought it would be cool to give someone a DUI on a push scooter. Ridiculous! I just don't get the lack of common sense these days:rolleyes:
"Ahh" why would her career be over? Its a DUI, its not like she molested a boy or something...
As to the rest of it all, we simply have to much law enforcement....
Its a felony and you can't get hired to work with children if you are a felon.
Its a felony and you can't get hired to work with children if you are a felon.
DUI, is not generally a felony in most jurisdictions without some aggravating circumstances, like a death as a result of an accident or it is your upteenth conviction for DUI. I'm sure there is much more to this story, than "she was on a scooter after a few beers". An "arrest" for DUI carries almost no stigma or employment repercussion. A guilty plea or conviction may but when it comes to DUI, it is a long line from arrest to conviction. I can not see a DA anywhere, taking a scooter DUI case to trial, it just isn't worth the time, energy, or expense. If true, there is more to this, like she was smashing out car windows with the scooter, she had a half ounce of methamphetamine in her pocket, or something else in the extreme was up. As stated above, that story makes no legal sense at all.
61-8-714. Penalty for driving under influence of alcohol or drugs -- first through third offense.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-714.htm
Sorry but this kinda crap kills me. When they make a law stiffer to get the really bad guys and then a LEO who should know when to use "professional judgement" to arrest or not to arrest abuses the law. When I lived in MT the town was 18 blocks long and people would go to the bars and get drunk and drive home and the responsible drinkers would not drive motor vehicles, but would often have a bike, skateboard or whatever. I knew one gal who got a DUI for riding her scooter (Jack & Jill type no motor) the 12 blocks to her house and she had gone to college to be a teacher & was a being hired as a school teacher in the Fall... teaching career OVER! 24 yrs old and her career is F'd because the cop thought it would be cool to give someone a DUI on a push scooter. Ridiculous! I just don't get the lack of common sense these days:rolleyes:
I'm calling bullshit.
Post a case record or it didn't happen.
It's frickin rain water for Pete's sake! Last I checked rain was free. free, nothing is free ,all is owned by big brother !all things are illegal until proven wise !
I'm calling bullshit.
Post a case record or it didn't happen.
Naive. Try living around Ft. Campbell and see if you don't see stuff like this happening all the time - on AND off post. I personally know people who have gotten DUI's for cutting their grass on riding mowers while having a six-pack. I also know people who've gotten DUI's for riding bicycles right in front of their homes. This shit happens. When it started happening to our soldiers, we couldn't do anything about the civilian side legal issues, but would not punish them under UCMJ. If it moves and has wheels, motorized or not, somebody out there will try, and sometimes succeed, in issuing a DUI for operating it.
Still calling bullshit...
"Knowledge" of these types of things spread fast, but is rarely accurate.
However, I do find its best to mix dangerous machinery and alcohol. Pushing something that has a high RPM steel blade capable of cutting off your foot, while consuming a product that has the potential to effect your judgement and/or balance is awesome.
Granted, I don't care what idiots do, until they need tax dollars to pay for their life-time disability or medical bills.
Still calling bullshit...
"Knowledge" of these types of things spread fast, but is rarely accurate.
However, I do find its best to mix dangerous machinery and alcohol. Pushing something that has a high RPM steel blade capable of cutting off your foot, while consuming a product that has the potential to effect your judgement and/or balance is awesome.
Granted, I don't care what idiots do, until they need tax dollars to pay for their life-time disability or medical bills.
The riding mower incident was with a civilian in Oak Grove. Not the smartest idea, but my point was that you can get a DUI for a lot of things other than driving an automobile on the road. The bike DUI was a soldier living off-post in Clarksville. Clarksville PD targets soldiers specifically - often charging them with absurd things.
If you still want to "call BS" (read: call me a liar), I suggest that you GFY.
Still no proof...just an anecdote.
I'm sure in your mind you're telling the truth, so it's not that you're a liar, or intending on not telling the truth, it's just that I don't believe it. If one or more elements is left out of the story, it can drastically change the theme of it.
Some guy get's a DUI on a bike. Most people would think its a little ****ed. Now let's say some dickbag is blasted while riding a bike doing other such things drunk dickbags do. Something to otherwise attract attention to themselves and continue to act like a dickbag when confronted. I could care a less then.
Right back at you with the GFY.
I'm calling bullshit.
Post a case record or it didn't happen.
It did happen and I don't have a "case record":rolleyes: and I guess the newspaper lied about it too and you are quite the excitable little muppet aren't you! :p
I have another friend who got a DWI in TX and she lost her job as a child counselor and couldn't get work with children here and so is now working as a counselor in Thailand for Child Sex Traffic Victims. That is true and I don't have a "case record":rolleyes: for her either you muppet:p
Still no proof...just an anecdote.
I'm sure in your mind you're telling the truth, so it's not that you're a liar, or intending on not telling the truth, it's just that I don't believe it. If one or more elements is left out of the story, it can drastically change the theme of it.
Some guy get's a DUI on a bike. Most people would think its a little ****ed. Now let's say some dickbag is blasted while riding a bike doing other such things drunk dickbags do. Something to otherwise attract attention to themselves and continue to act like a dickbag when confronted. I could care a less then.
Right back at you with the GFY.
Who pissed in your Post Toasties? I get where you're coming from, but you're being pretty douchey about it. :rolleyes:
Still no proof...just an anecdote.
I'm sure in your mind you're telling the truth, so it's not that you're a liar, or intending on not telling the truth, it's just that I don't believe it. If one or more elements is left out of the story, it can drastically change the theme of it.
Some guy get's a DUI on a bike. Most people would think its a little ****ed. Now let's say some dickbag is blasted while riding a bike doing other such things drunk dickbags do. Something to otherwise attract attention to themselves and continue to act like a dickbag when confronted. I could care a less then.
Right back at you with the GFY.
The reason your responses are insulting is that I'm not relaying third party information. It's not a "my brother's friend's cousin's dog's" story. I'm telling you that I have first hand knowledge of such things happening, and I'm smart enough to understand how stories can get twisted and misrepresented as they are retold and reported. There is no such game of telephone going on here, and there were no "aggravating circumstances" in either the riding mower or bicycle DUI's that led to the charges.
Heavy Metal
08-02-12, 21:58
An overly broad generalization.
The weather in Eagle Point more closely resembles Flagstaff, AZ, than Portland, OR or Seattle, WA, with their high rainfall levels.
Average Annual Precipitation 18.37 inches
Monthly Average Precipitation, Eagle Point, Oregon
January 2.47 Inches
February 2.1 Inches
March 1.85 Inches
April 1.31 Inches
May 1.21 Inches
June 0.68 Inches
July 0.31 Inches
August 0.52 Inches
September 0.78 Inches
October 1.31 Inches
November 2.93 Inches
December 2.9 Inches
The heaviest rains fall out on the western slopes. I suspect eastern Oregon gets quite a bit less. Hell, there are really dry areas in Idaho.
Heavy Metal
08-02-12, 22:00
Sorry but this kinda crap kills me. When they make a law stiffer to get the really bad guys and then a LEO who should know when to use "professional judgement" to arrest or not to arrest abuses the law. When I lived in MT the town was 18 blocks long and people would go to the bars and get drunk and drive home and the responsible drinkers would not drive motor vehicles, but would often have a bike, skateboard or whatever. I knew one gal who got a DUI for riding her scooter (Jack & Jill type no motor) the 12 blocks to her house and she had gone to college to be a teacher & was a being hired as a school teacher in the Fall... teaching career OVER! 24 yrs old and her career is F'd because the cop thought it would be cool to give someone a DUI on a push scooter. Ridiculous! I just don't get the lack of common sense these days:rolleyes:
I suspect their main concern is he would drown.
Belmont31R
08-02-12, 23:39
“Multinational companies now run water systems for 7 percent of the world’s population, and analysts say that figure could grow to 17 percent by 2015. Private water management is estimated to be a $200 billion business, and the World Bank, which has encouraged governments to sell off their utilities to reduce public debt, projects it could be worth $1 trillion by 2021. The potential for profits is staggering: in May 2000 Fortune magazine predicted that water is about to become ‘one of the world’s great business opportunities’, and that ‘it promises to be to the 21st century what oil was to the 20th.” —John Louma, “Water Thieves,” The Ecologist, March 2004
After he acquired more water rights than any other individual in the US back in '08 (by perfectly legal Capitalist means mind you); T. Boone Pickens was quoted in an interview saying 'If I could find a way to charge people for the air they breathe I would'.
The 'people's water' (has a Marxist ring to it doesn’t ;)) really isn't the 'people’s' water so much as it is those who are in positions of power.
In some cases private control of public utilities is a good thing. I don't think extreme capitalism is any better than extreme communism. The company, in those cases, simply replaces the government in the amount of control over the individual. Would you like to be paid in "company credits", have to shop at the company "store", and rent from the company "apartments"? There has to be a balance between government, private industry, and the individual.
Moose-Knuckle
08-03-12, 01:12
In some cases private control of public utilities is a good thing. I don't think extreme capitalism is any better than extreme communism. The company, in those cases, simply replaces the government in the amount of control over the individual. Would you like to be paid in "company credits", have to shop at the company "store", and rent from the company "apartments"? There has to be a balance between government, private industry, and the individual.
Whether it be a multinational corporation or a sovereign government; anyone who controls the ability to turn your water off and on yields much power. This is the fundamental issue people take when this subject comes up.
QuietShootr
08-03-12, 09:18
Naive. Try living around Ft. Campbell and see if you don't see stuff like this happening all the time - on AND off post. I personally know people who have gotten DUI's for cutting their grass on riding mowers while having a six-pack. I also know people who've gotten DUI's for riding bicycles right in front of their homes. This shit happens. When it started happening to our soldiers, we couldn't do anything about the civilian side legal issues, but would not punish them under UCMJ. If it moves and has wheels, motorized or not, somebody out there will try, and sometimes succeed, in issuing a DUI for operating it.
Me too, on both counts. One was a neighbor when I lived in the city a little more than I do now - was cutting his lawn with two beers in the cupholders on his Dixie Chopper, and he happened to take a sip when a cop drove by. He thought it was a joke until he was in cuffs.
The other thing they liked to do in that area was really bust balls for DUI, but if you took any other mode of transportation including the leather Cadillacs they'd bust you for public intox.
QuietShootr
08-03-12, 09:19
The riding mower incident was with a civilian in Oak Grove. Not the smartest idea, but my point was that you can get a DUI for a lot of things other than driving an automobile on the road. The bike DUI was a soldier living off-post in Clarksville. Clarksville PD targets soldiers specifically - often charging them with absurd things.
If you still want to "call BS" (read: call me a liar), I suggest that you GFY.
True in almost every Army town.
Dirk Williams
08-03-12, 11:07
I was present when a state trooper took a cowboy for DUII off of his horse. Happened here in Klamath Falls back in 91 . No I can't provide a case number, nor do I give a **** if you be
I've it.
Regarding the water issue, I live about 100 miles from there. The water shed is referred to as the Klamath basin water shed. A lot of the problem with this is that a percentage of this water is harvested and sent to southern California for their consumption.
Back in 93 or so we went thru WATER WARS here. The US govt decided to allow zero water to the farmers here due to a sucker fish which is supposed to be sacred to the local Klamath Indian tribes.
As our world population grows, I predict we will fight more and more over water then any other resource on this planet. It's interesting, farmers here and in the central valley of calif purchase water at a reduced rate for their crops. I can agree with that as they are feeding us.
Yet those same farmers are now selling that cheap water to municipalities at a huge profit. You and I are subsidizing the water and these farmers are selling it at a profit.
In essence they are now water farmers and are pumping ground water to care for the crops. Around Marysville Ca it's not uncommon for the farmers to use so much water that the folks living in the foot hills are running out of water.
When it comes to water your going to find that the oldest water users have historical water rights thus they will control the flow of water. In most cases those oldest rights are being deeded to all the Indian tribes.
Water is and has been the new black gold.
dW
.
You want to see scary water stuff. According to this documentary corporations are sneaking around finding locations they can legally drill wells and pull water. They go in suck up as much as they can and truck it away and sell it.
http://www.tappedthemovie.com/
Moose-Knuckle
08-03-12, 17:28
You want to see scary water stuff. According to this documentary corporations are sneaking around finding locations they can legally drill wells and pull water. They go in suck up as much as they can and truck it away and sell it.
http://www.tappedthemovie.com/
Yeap, great documentary. Water Wars is a good read on the matter.
Hell, just Google Swiss owned Nestle water and see all the shit there up to.
True in almost every Army town.
Many of those SM's earn those charges in spades.
Its a felony and you can't get hired to work with children if you are a felon.
No, its not! Here in Wisconsin, a first offense isn't even a criminal tag, its a civil one! DUI's are all misdemeanors, if you're a multiple offender you can experience felony enhancements, or if you are involved in an extremely serious accident resulting in great bodily injury, or death you can count on being enhanced, aside from that, the first two or three convictions are almost never felonies....
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