View Full Version : M&P9 Accuracy with new barrel design.
FlatFender
07-27-12, 22:36
Is anyone else experiencing fantastic accuracy out of their M&P9 with the new barrel? Or I guess a better question would be, is anyone still having accuracy issues with the newest barrel? A friend of mine shot this group with my pro tonight, and we were both surprised. 5rds @ 25 yards, just a hair under 2.5"
13031
I read on the 10-8 performance blog that the newest barrels appear to have a slower twist rate, which is helping.
FlatFender
07-28-12, 06:11
Newer factory barrel?
Yes, check this out:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/s-m-barrels.html
What was the date on the fired casing? Will it shoot that way with different bullet weights?
CaptainDooley
07-28-12, 08:11
Now if only they would admit there was a problem and replace the older barrels… without me shipping the gun in so I don't have to remove all my Apex parts, only to reinstall them when it gets back.
Damn I've been holding off on a full size m&p 9 waiting on a fix. Now I gotta find some funds after breaking the bank with BCM two weeks ago. :D
FlatFender
07-28-12, 08:32
What was the date on the fired casing? Will it shoot that way with different bullet weights?
6/20
Not sure about the bullet weights, all I had with me was WWB 115gr range fodder.
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FlatFender
07-28-12, 09:06
2012?
Yeah
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holy crap. i have been holding off on an m&p9 pro 5" because of the accuracy issues. if you can replicate that group with 124gr and 147gr I would absolutely buy one.
Now if only they would admit there was a problem and replace the older barrels… without me shipping the gun in so I don't have to remove all my Apex parts, only to reinstall them when it gets back.
That will NEVER happen...
Yes, check this out:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/s-m-barrels.html
From my knowledge, S&W has not changed the twist rate (yet).
C4
That design has been around for awhile now. I have an FDE 9FS that I got from Grant last year that did not have the collar in front of the chamber.
My question is has S&W actually redesigned it further to improve lockup by increasing the hood dimensions? Or did you get lucky with the new gun?
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FlatFender
07-28-12, 10:24
That design has been around for awhile now. I have an FDE 9FS that I got from Grant last year that did not have the collar in front of the chamber.
My question is has S&W actually redesigned it further to improve lockup by increasing the hood dimensions? Or did you get lucky with the new gun?
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This I do not know. I was basing my assumption off of the 10-8 blog, but if Grant says they haven't changed the twist rate, then I dont know. Maybe I just got a hammer.
I'm happy either way.
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I don't own an M&P, but have been following the issues with accuracy in the 9mm guns, especially the FS models. My understanding is that the accuracy is poor in some, but by no means all, 9mm M&Ps. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) If that is the case, then good groups posted by the OP might, or might not, indicate any positive change on S&W's part. It may simply be that the gun he shot was one that didn't manifest the accuracy issues.
Hilton Yam's blogpost about accuracy testing was indicative that maybe S&W had fixed the problem, but was certainly not conclusive, IMO.
While I respect Mr. Yam, that is still a sample of one. Until we see more first hand accounts of improved accuracy or someone like Grant can get an inside scoop, I'm not convinced. Just trying to decide on a G&R replacement or Apex / Bar Sto.
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Hogsgunwild
07-28-12, 12:01
My 9MM FS (that was purchased less than one year ago) would group perhaps 5" @ 25 yards when new. It degraded to where even the close range accuracy was affected and was almost off of the paper at 25 yards.
S&W replaced the barrel several months ago and, much to my dismay, I am now back to about a 5" @ 25 yards gun.
Just remember, this is the internet and any new or improved barrel twist or lock-up revisions I would want verified from S&W, and from someone higher up than the person from customer service that answers the phone.
FlatFender
07-28-12, 13:19
I don't own an M&P, but have been following the issues with accuracy in the 9mm guns, especially the FS models. My understanding is that the accuracy is poor in some, but by no means all, 9mm M&Ps. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) If that is the case, then good groups posted by the OP might, or might not, indicate any positive change on S&W's part. It may simply be that the gun he shot was one that didn't manifest the accuracy issues.
Hilton Yam's blogpost about accuracy testing was indicative that maybe S&W had fixed the problem, but was certainly not conclusive, IMO.
Absolutely. In no way was I making the case that because my one pistol shoots good, that all the rest of them must as well. I was curious to know if others with the same style barrel were still having issues or not.
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FlatFender
07-28-12, 13:19
[QUOTE=FlatFender;1357581]Absolutely. In no way was I making the case that because my one pistol shoots good, that all the rest of them must as well. I was curious to know if others with the same style barrel were still having issues or not.
And I wanted to brag a little.
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Damn I've been holding off on a full size m&p 9 waiting on a fix. Now I gotta find some funds after breaking the bank with BCM two weeks ago. :D
Yes, me too..
ANyway to tell them apart to make sure ya got the new one? Serial # range?
saddlerocker
07-28-12, 14:15
I was under the impression that S&W had an already slow twist rate.
The Storm Lake and Bar-Sto Barrels have a faster twist than factory dont they?
I would love if they fixed the issues, but I too am waiting for some concrete verification.
Hopefully we will be able to just buy a replacement factory barrel for $60 that will have any new dimensions/changes, sometime in the near future. If indeed there are changes in the current guns.
I am an owner of two brand new M&P 9 Pro 5" guns. Unfortunately they are going straight to Apex as they are going to be Bianchi guns.
But when I get the stock barrels back, I might throw one in my other M&P 9 Pro, and see what the groups are like. But that might be a while.
Is anyone else experiencing fantastic accuracy out of their M&P9 with the new barrel?
Yes, results similar to yours with a wide variety of ammo.
Not sure what they've changed, don't really care. Mine are shooting great.
Then again, I've always suspected that the whole accuracy issue thing is overblown so who knows.
Now if only they would admit there was a problem and replace the older barrels… without me shipping the gun in so I don't have to remove all my Apex parts, only to reinstall them when it gets back.
Have you talked to anyone about replacing the barrel at S&W?
Absolutely. In no way was I making the case that because my one pistol shoots good, that all the rest of them must as well. I was curious to know if others with the same style barrel were still having issues or not.
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My 5" looks exactly like Hilton Y's, it shot horribly with the stock barrel, and luckily shoots very well (with a fairly fresh recoil spring assembly) with a KKM barrel.
I922sParkCir
07-28-12, 22:11
Grant, do you think you'll have any of these barrels in stock?
mike benedict
07-29-12, 06:37
I shot a brand new Pro yesterday with the new barrel. The pistol shot 5 115gr S&B into a group no bigger than a nickle at 18 yards offhand.
I shot several groups around 2" with 147gr Winchester TMJs at the same distance.
I don't have any accuracy issues with any of my M&Ps but this pistol certainly shot well.
I shot a brand new Pro yesterday with the new barrel. The pistol shot 5 115gr S&B into a group no bigger than a nickle at 18 yards offhand.
I shot several groups around 2" with 147gr Winchester TMJs at the same distance.
I don't have any accuracy issues with any of my M&Ps but this pistol certainly shot well.
Wow, very nice.
Grant, do you think you'll have any of these barrels in stock?
Which barrels?? Factory or the Storm Lake Fitted barrels?
C4
I922sParkCir
07-29-12, 14:01
Which barrels?? Factory or the Storm Lake Fitted barrels?
C4
The "newer" S&W 9MM barrels.
I'd prefer to see an overall trend of increased accuracy before judging the "new" barrels from S&W. As we know there are already some old 9mm M&P's out there without accuracy issues.
The "newer" S&W 9MM barrels.
There are NONE to my knowledge (at this time).
C4
There are NONE to my knowledge (at this time).
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/s-m-barrels.html
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/s-m-barrels.html
Yes, I have read it. Remember that I am a S&W LE Distributor. My info comes DIRECTLY from S&W. ;)
C4
Hilton is showing two completely different barrels in his pics, would the slide have to be different as well for these to work? They look like they're from different manufacturers they're so different.
Yep I wonder what the deal is... checked mine and.its the older style but I really haven't paid attention to group size so don't know if I would even need.the new style (if it is truly improved). Very interested to find this out though.
FlatFender
07-29-12, 22:51
I have some friends who may have a couple older production 9mm M&P's that I'm trying to get my hands on. As soon as I do, I'll snap some pictures of the rifling so it can be compared.
Even so, we still have an incredibly small sample size, so the results will be in no way conclusive, but it may be interesting to look into.
saddlerocker
07-29-12, 23:21
My M&P is from Jan 2011
My barrel is the same as his "2012" barrel, and nothing like his "original" Barrel.
So they didnt just change, at least not the hood dimensions.
My accuracy sucks btw.
FlatFender
07-29-12, 23:44
My M&P is from Jan 2011
My barrel is the same as his "2012" barrel, and nothing like his "original" Barrel.
So they didnt just change, at least not the hood dimensions.
My accuracy sucks btw.
It looks like we have more and more people chiming in with the "new" style barrel and crappy accuracy, which is what I was wanting to know. Grant is saying that S$W isnt saying anything about any changes, and I guess, unfortunately, he's probably right.
Still going to get my hands on a couple older production 9mm M&P's to see if I can decipher any difference in the rifling.
My stock Pro 9, is as accurate as any gun I have. Have several MNP
ALL are outstanding.
My 5" 9mm Pro with a May 2012 spent casing grouped 5" at 15 yds with 115g, and slightly better with 147g. With a KKM barrel, groups shrank to 3" with 147g, but 115g hit 4" below point of aim. This same barrel showed no improvement when dropped into a buddy's Pro. His gun shot well with the factory barrel, and our reloads chrono'd 20-30 fps higher velocities through his stock barrel compared to mine.
That design has been around for awhile now. I have an FDE 9FS that I got from Grant last year that did not have the collar in front of the chamber.
My question is has S&W actually redesigned it further to improve lockup by increasing the hood dimensions? Or did you get lucky with the new gun?
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My M&P 9 full size is a late 2010 model and it has the "new" barrel design. I bought it slightly used a couple months ago. Do ya'll think it came with the new barrel originally, or did the previous owner replace the old barrel with the new one? Conspiracy!
Hilton is showing two completely different barrels in his pics, would the slide have to be different as well for these to work? They look like they're from different manufacturers they're so different.
Yes, S&W has changed the barrel PROFILE to help strengthen it. They will fit in an older slide.
C4
To help with the confusion, S&W has changed the profile on the barrel to help strengthen it.
The twist rate and hood dimensions are the same still.
C4
I didn't understand the Yam article. He says all groups are shot offhand. then for the new barrel he says it's from a rest.
Doesn't offhand mean no rest of any sort? If so, it seems the new barrel is no better or maybe even worse as it seems like if it was shot offhand the groups would open up an inch or so.
I realize the whole thing is sort of a casual testing but it seems like the "new" is no better then the "old".
On the other hand it looks like the things Grant is doing with new barrels is clearly pulling in small groups that don't leave a lot to the imagination.
We're the accuracy issues only a problem on the full size M&Ps? I have a local guy with a M&P9c that I'd like to pick up. Would it benefit from a fitted barrel?
We're the accuracy issues only a problem on the full size M&Ps? I have a local guy with a M&P9c that I'd like to pick up. Would it benefit from a fitted barrel?
Typically, the smaller 9mm M&P's shoot fair groups.
Last Summer, S&W changed out the SHB for a bigger detent and spring (dealt with dead trigger issues). Then about 6 months ago, S&W put a new extractor in their guns to help with shallow rimmed ammo.
So it is a good idea to inspect the gun (specifically the SHB) and see if it has the small detent or large detent.
C4
Typically, the smaller 9mm M&P's shoot fair groups.
Last Summer, S&W changed out the SHB for a bigger detent and spring (dealt with dead trigger issues). Then about 6 months ago, S&W put a new extractor in their guns to help with shallow rimmed ammo.
So it is a good idea to inspect the gun (specifically the SHB) and see if it has the small detent or large detent.
C4
Okay will do. Is it easy to swap that stuff out if it has the older parts in it now?
Okay will do. Is it easy to swap that stuff out if it has the older parts in it now?
Yes, but drives the cost. A new SHB is $30 (for instance).
C4
Yes, but drives the cost. A new SHB is $30 (for instance).
C4
No worries. I'm still waiting to hear back from the guy but worst case $30 isn't bad.
FlatFender
07-30-12, 19:23
Got my hands on an early 2010 production M&P9. Rifling looks identical to my June 2012 production barrel.
Is be interested to see if Mr. Yam could snap a couple pics of his barrels.
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GLOCKMASTER
07-30-12, 19:39
Then about 6 months ago, S&W put a new extractor in their guns to help with shallow rimmed ammo.
C4
Do you consider SPEER GDHP to be shallow rimmed ammunition?
I pick my new M&P tomorrow. Hopefully it'll shoot good for me. I guess I'll have to go to PPQ's or back to CZs if it doesn't shoot well.
Do you consider SPEER GDHP to be shallow rimmed ammunition?
Generally not. Winchester mostly.
C4
I pick my new M&P tomorrow. Hopefully it'll shoot good for me. I guess I'll have to go to PPQ's or back to CZs if it doesn't shoot well.
Or get a fitted barrel for it. ;)
C4
GLOCKMASTER
07-30-12, 22:31
Generally not. Winchester mostly.
C4
Ok because we had a failure to extract issue with the old extractor. S&W is going to replace all of our pistols because of this and a few other problems.
Or get a fitted barrel for it. ;)
C4
Grant, do you have your your barrels in from SL yet?
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Ok because we had a failure to extract issue with the old extractor. S&W is going to replace all of our pistols because of this and a few other problems.
Understand.
C4
Grant, do you have your your barrels in from SL yet?
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Not yet.
C4
Well, mine came in. It's got a squishy reset but an otherwise good trigger. I'll get out this weekend to test it for accuracy. I've got a June dated casing btw.
My 2009 M&P9 has the accuracy issue and I have written about it & discussed it with many people, not just in Brian Enos website. (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=157995&st=0&p=1765766&fromsearch=1&#entry1765766).
As of now, based on 25ft shooting distance, the new S&W gen2 bbl has clearly eliminated the accuracy issue.
When I stretched the shooting distance longer, my initial shooting results were inconclusive but I want to leave that for another day to confirm. Perhaps I was too tired that day.
I will post the complete pics in the link above in a few days when I complete the tests, in comparison with the KKM bbl and other similar pistols from other manufacturers.
brushy bill
09-29-12, 21:15
based on 25ft shooting distance, the new S&W gen2 bbl has clearly eliminated the accuracy issue.
Do you mean 25 feet (about 8 yards) or 25 yards? Not tracking your meaning as posted because the accuracy issues are 15 yards and beyond, not 8 yards.
jbourneidentity
09-29-12, 21:38
My M&P 9mm had the newer barrel (early 2012 manufacture). It wouldn't group at all at 25 yards with Federal or Remington 124-grain FMJ (12-14 inch vertical strings from rested position). High quality JHPs (Federal 124-grain HST) shot much better but still not within acceptable limits to me (8 inches spreads). Despite this, I liked the gun and wanted to hold on to it, but after seeing these "groups," I lost confidence and let it go.
Despite the risks, I replaced it with a Gen 4 G19. I guess I got lucky because it's a shooter. Far superior groups (4-5 inch groups at 25 yards) and positive ejection. When I buy another M&P, it'll be a .45, which is supposed to exhibit phenomenal accuracy.
Do you mean 25 feet (about 8 yards) or 25 yards? Not tracking your meaning as posted because the accuracy issues are 15 yards and beyond, not 8 yards.
My original bbl had accuracy issue even at 25 ft (not yards).
jonconsiglio
01-28-13, 21:49
Just wanted to revive this thread to mention that I have two 2010 M&P's and a threaded barrel from the same time and I just picked up a 12/06/12 M&P9 and the barrel has a noticeable faster twist rate.
Does anybody know what the faster twist rate is and when they started using it?
GUNSLINGER733
01-29-13, 09:52
3" groups at 25 yards. I shoot idpa sized steel up to 130 yards with mine stock. I just installed a apex aek but havent had enough time to test.
2012
Just wanted to revive this thread to mention that I have two 2010 M&P's and a threaded barrel from the same time and I just picked up a 12/06/12 M&P9 and the barrel has a noticeable faster twist rate.
Does anybody know what the faster twist rate is and when they started using it?
So all new m&p9's are shipping sporting a 1/10 ROT barrel? which I can only assume is a direct streamlining of the C.O.R.E. sieries pistols. Correct me if I am off here.
jonconsiglio
01-29-13, 12:27
So all new m&p9's are shipping sporting a 1/10 ROT barrel? which I can only assume is a direct streamlining of the C.O.R.E. sieries pistols. Correct me if I am off here.
I don't know. All I know is my 12-06-12 test fired M&P9 has a noticeably faster twist than my 2010 M&P's and 2010 purchased M&P threaded barrel.
I'd like to know as well.
I can try to get a pic if needed of both the new and old M&P. I have some pics of the way the slide catch works with the trigger bar for a more tactile reset as well as video.
For now, here's the older M&P's trigger action without the side catch assisting. I don't know how to embed Flickr videos, so if anyone does, feel free to do so.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24925870@N00/8411953196/
Here's the new M&P with the slide catch assisting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24925870@N00/8411951136/
S&W and changed to a 1/10 twist a couple months ago (at least on the LE side and now on the Commercial side).
C4
jonconsiglio
01-29-13, 12:41
S&W and changed to a 1/10 twist a couple months ago (at least on the LE side and now on the Commercial side).
C4
From a 1:18 or similar, right? I also heard mention of a 1:20+, though i have no clue when each one was used.
One of the guys on Lightfighter was getting 6" groups or larger at 25 yards with his couple year old M&P9. So, the other day he order 3 or 4 locking blocks ($12 at Brownell's) and tried different ones. Now, he's shooting under 6" groups at 50 yards and considerably better at 25.
So, I wonder how much it has to do with lock up and how much it has to do with twist rate. Either way, my newest one is quite accurate, keeping 5 rounds of 147gr Ranger T-Series a hair under 3" from a sandbag.
From a 1:18 or similar, right? I also heard mention of a 1:20+, though i have no clue when each one was used.
One of the guys on Lightfighter was getting 6" groups or larger at 25 yards with his couple year old M&P9. So, the other day he order 3 or 4 locking blocks ($12 at Brownell's) and tried different ones. Now, he's shooting under 6" groups at 50 yards and considerably better at 25.
So, I wonder how much it has to do with lock up and how much it has to do with twist rate. Either way, my newest one is quite accurate, keeping 5 rounds of 147gr Ranger T-Series a hair under 3" from a sandbag.
The locking blocks were changed awhile ago as well so there can be some advantage to getting a newer one. At the end of the day, nothing beats a fitted barrel (which is why we have been able to produce half inch groups with our Storm Lake barrels).
C4
jonconsiglio
01-29-13, 12:59
The locking blocks were changed awhile ago as well so there can be some advantage to getting a newer one. At the end of the day, nothing beats a fitted barrel (which is why we have been able to produce half inch groups with our Storm Lake barrels).
C4
I'm all for a fitted barrel and even with my newest one printing like it does, I'm still interested in purchasing one.
Are the fitted barrels silver or black? Do they have anything besides 9mm visible when installed? I saw the G&R stamp in the pic, but that's covered by the slide if I'm not mistaken, so is the exposed side blank?
As for the locking block that they changed, is this something noticeable or is it a subtle change in size, for example?
I'm all for a fitted barrel and even with my newest one printing like it does, I'm still interested in purchasing one.
Are the fitted barrels silver or black? Do they have anything besides 9mm visible when installed? I saw the G&R stamp in the pic, but that's covered by the slide if I'm not mistaken, so is the exposed side blank?
As for the locking block that they changed, is this something noticeable or is it a subtle change in size, for example?
They are SS and only have "9mm" showing. There is NO G&R Stamp on them (was something we photoshopped in). ;)
The locking block change was actually for the 40 M&P's (not 9mm) and had to do with reliability and NOT accuracy. So I don't know how much of a change they would make.
C4
jonconsiglio
01-29-13, 13:20
So, the change was not in the 9mm with the locking blocks?
What he said was after trying a couple different locking blocks in his M&P9, his gun shot considerably better. My guess is it tightened the fit.
Thanks for the info. What's the turnaround time on the barrel install?
So, the change was not in the 9mm with the locking blocks?
What he said was after trying a couple different locking blocks in his M&P9, his gun shot considerably better. My guess is it tightened the fit.
Thanks for the info. What's the turnaround time on the barrel install?
The 9 and 40's use all the same parts. So if one caliber makes a change, they all get it.
Once we get to your name on the back order list (several months), it is usually a 2 week turn around.
C4
jonconsiglio
01-29-13, 13:49
The 9 and 40's use all the same parts. So if one caliber makes a change, they all get it.
Once we get to your name on the back order list (several months), it is usually a 2 week turn around.
C4
I knew that, but when you said it was the 40, I wasn't sure if you meant only the 40 caliber guns got it or both.
Thanks for the info. Now I just need to get on the list....
JoshuaJJackson
02-02-13, 07:23
S&W and changed to a 1/10 twist a couple months ago (at least on the LE side and now on the Commercial side).
C4
Is there a certain date of production this was implemented? I haven't really be able to find any mention of this other than here. Been putting off picking up an M&P because of this, so just looking to make sure getting the newer design.
Is there a certain date of production this was implemented? I haven't really be able to find any mention of this other than here. Been putting off picking up an M&P because of this, so just looking to make sure getting the newer design.
It has been pretty recently. So your best bet is to buy one that was made in the last 1-2 months.
C4
JoshuaJJackson
02-02-13, 08:26
It has been pretty recently. So your best bet is to buy one that was made in the last 1-2 months.
C4
Awesome thanks for the info. I figure that shouldn't be to hard to find with all the panic buying, would figure most of the stuff coming in would be new production.
jonconsiglio
02-02-13, 10:21
Awesome thanks for the info. I figure that shouldn't be to hard to find with all the panic buying, would figure most of the stuff coming in would be new production.
Mine has a test fire date of Dec 06, 2012. The difference in the trigger is once and I don't need the Apex parts. While the reset sound isn't that big of a deal to me, the forward push is. The new M&P9 has that push and no longer has that false reset they had before.
The new barrel, so far, is very accurate. I'm glad to have it and this one will save me some money, other than sights.
Mine has a test fire date of Dec 06, 2012. The difference in the trigger is once and I don't need the Apex parts. While the reset sound isn't that big of a deal to me, the forward push is. The new M&P9 has that push and no longer has that false reset they had before.
The new barrel, so far, is very accurate. I'm glad to have it and this one will save me some money, other than sights.
My recent manufacture M&P mirrors your experience. I am very happy with its trigger and accuracy.
outrider627
02-03-13, 11:51
Any way to get the new barrel and trigger parts? Do these new parts have a different item number than old ones?
GUNSLINGER733
02-03-13, 21:35
Midway, brownells, speed shooter specialties has oem parts.
Any way to get the new barrel and trigger parts? Do these new parts have a different item number than old ones?
I highly doubt you would find one of the newer barrels. Also keep in mind that the newer twist rate CANNOT overcome for a loose fit hood to slide.
C4
I just picked up a M&P9 that has the pronounced false reset. It is very strange to get used to and several times when shooting, I did not reset to the second detent.
An Apex will have to be in my future. Otherwise it seems to be fine weapon.
jonconsiglio
02-05-13, 11:26
I just picked up a M&P9 that has the pronounced false reset. It is very strange to get used to and several times when shooting, I did not reset to the second detent.
An Apex will have to be in my future. Otherwise it seems to be fine weapon.
What is the test fire date, and does it have that nub I posted a pic of on the right side slide catch?
Just curious....
Jon
I'll look when I get home. Though I doubt it is new enough to have the updates.
I recently got one from Grant that has a test-fire date of 12/17/12. Other than a buddy's Spec-Ops edition, I don't have much to compare it to, but my trigger has a positive reset and a fairly clean break. I thought about just getting the Apex sear to lighten it up a little, but after a few hundred rounds, I'm not even sure that will be necessary.
I haven't shot it enough yet at 25 yards to come to any conclusions about its accuracy, but it seems to shoot where I point it.
What is the test fire date, and does it have that nub I posted a pic of on the right side slide catch?
Just curious....
Jon
4/12.... :(
fingerbanged the demo M&P's at shot, trigger break was very crisp.
grant is there any revisions you have been able to confirm in your new/13 models?
PathofPain
02-20-13, 22:37
As I just ordered one, I'd be interested in any additional information.
Thanks!
fingerbanged the demo M&P's at shot, trigger break was very crisp.
grant is there any revisions you have been able to confirm in your new/13 models?
Nothing new. Most of the major changes were made at the end of 2012.
C4
PathofPain
02-21-13, 09:10
Nothing new. Most of the major changes were made at the end of 2012.
C4
Grant,
Do you happen to have a range of test fire dates (roughly) from the latest M&P9s you've seen?
Thanks!
jonconsiglio
02-21-13, 09:54
Grant,
Do you happen to have a range of test fire dates (roughly) from the latest M&P9s you've seen?
Thanks!
Mine is a 6 Dec test fire. A buddy of mine has one with an early November test fire date and his does not have all the changes.
Grant,
Do you happen to have a range of test fire dates (roughly) from the latest M&P9s you've seen?
Thanks!
End of Nov to Dec 2012 from looking at a couple of them.
They have all the latest changes.
C4
PathofPain
02-21-13, 15:16
End of Nov to Dec 2012 from looking at a couple of them.
They have all the latest changes.
C4
That's exactly what I wanted to know. I'm excited to to receive mine soon.
Thank you.
PathofPain
03-04-13, 23:09
Just got my new M&P9. Test fire date of 11/21/12.
I started checking out the barrel to slide fit. If I grab the top of the barrel hood and gently wiggle it (in battery) it doesn't move, but if I pinch it more tightly and wiggle it, there is some play. Here are some numbers:
barrel hood width (at loaded chamber indicator) - .397
Slide notch (at loaded chamber indicator) - .403
Barrel hood OAL - 1.2125
Slide opening OAL - 1.2195
When locked up, things aren't sloppy, but if the recoil spring tension is reduced, the play becomes a little more obvious.
As soon as I have it out to the range, I'll put it on the 25 yd line and see how accuracy corresponds to those numbers above.
marklbucla
03-04-13, 23:14
Has anything been done in the new revision set to address the ease of auto-forwarding?
I highly doubt you would find one of the newer barrels. Also keep in mind that the newer twist rate CANNOT overcome for a loose fit hood to slide.
C4
Is this something you can fix on a stock barrel or is an aftermarket barrel required? Just curious if a stock barrel can be improved, or is a custom about one's only option???
Is this something you can fix on a stock barrel or is an aftermarket barrel required? Just curious if a stock barrel can be improved, or is a custom about one's only option???
An aftermarket barrel (that needs fitted) is about the only way to guarantee accuracy.
C4
I highly doubt you would find one of the newer barrels. Also keep in mind that the newer twist rate CANNOT overcome for a loose fit hood to slide.
C4
A question of mine is what exactly constitutes a loose hood-to-slide fit?
I have a recent production M&P9 (Oct 12 2012) and thought that the fit was a little loose. I broke out the feeler gauge and measured .010 of gap between the front edge of the barrel hood and the slide when the gun is in battery. To me, that seems pretty sloppy, but I don't have near the experience some here have. The immediate unlocking once the slide is moved any perceptible amount aft also seems a bit suspect.
The gun is still barely beyond break-in due to ammo shortages, but seems to group well enough at 7 yards (nowhere near the 25 yard benchmark, I know).
I have an FNX, FNS, and Kahr P9. On each of these, there is literally no slop that I can detect - I can't even get a .0015 gauge in there on any of them, and lockup feels much more stout with them.
Thoughts?
A question of mine is what exactly constitutes a loose hood-to-slide fit?
I have a recent production M&P9 (Oct 12 2012) and thought that the fit was a little loose. I broke out the feeler gauge and measured .010 of gap between the front edge of the barrel hood and the slide when the gun is in battery. To me, that seems pretty sloppy, but I don't have near the experience some here have. The immediate unlocking once the slide is moved any perceptible amount aft also seems a bit suspect.
The gun is still barely beyond break-in due to ammo shortages, but seems to group well enough at 7 yards (nowhere near the 25 yard benchmark, I know).
I have an FNX, FNS, and Kahr P9. On each of these, there is literally no slop that I can detect - I can't even get a .0015 gauge in there on any of them, and lockup feels much more stout with them.
Thoughts?
That is VERY loose. My guess is that the gun shoots (at best with a good shooter) 7-8" @ 25yds.
C4
That is VERY loose. My guess is that the gun shoots (at best with a good shooter) 7-8" @ 25yds.
C4
I suspected as much. As you can imagine, if I hold the gun up to the light when in battery it is easy to see daylight in the slide/barrel hood gap. I can only assume tooling inconsistencies are what creates some M&Ps like this one.
I suppose I'll take my chances and send it back once, with a note about the slop. Failing resolution that way, it's probably not a gun I want to pursue further and I'll put it on the chopping block.
Thanks for your feedback.
Does anyone have any pictures of a loose fit vs. a fitted fit? Just curious if the issue is easy to see or if it is more at the micro level? Thanks.
Ask and ye shall receive....one sloppy-arse slide to barrel fit, coming right up...
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d2M6ef-zWtI/UUyUXAdwRlI/AAAAAAAABnY/GEok4WLJZLM/s1127/IMG_0720.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iXgoNpjIZjU/UUyUXi4PT_I/AAAAAAAABn4/aT17n7WSCPQ/s1127/IMG_0722.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UIQFfLMe5zg/UUyUXroo6II/AAAAAAAABnk/k1giKawSVsY/s1127/IMG_0723.JPG
Lovely, isn't it? :fie:
Got my M&P 9 a week ago. Loving the out of the box accuracy so far.
Got my M&P 9 a week ago. Loving the out of the box accuracy so far.
How's the barrel to slide fit on your example? On one like mine, I can't imagine it being able to go more than 1000 rounds or so without some kind of peening or edge wear going on.
How's the barrel to slide fit on your example? On one like mine, I can't imagine it being able to go more than 1000 rounds or so without some kind of peening or edge wear going on.
Be pretty darn cool if the new ones did not need the barrel fitting and Apex kit.... I am on a list for a FS C.O.R.E... If I could just pull it from the box and be good to go I'd be very happy!
No rubbing here. The barrel seems to float dead center in the slide.
Now for some M&P pr0n:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GE7Aalfe2Qg/UU0QnbI_pKI/AAAAAAAABp0/7T86xUHgKPo/s800/IMG_1486.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VoksalwNJUU/UU0QouGlwAI/AAAAAAAABp8/iESXAG0DguA/s800/IMG_1487.jpg
Took mine out to the range for some more testing. It is not nearly as accurate as my P228 I shot during the same session.
From 20 yards, the groups were much larger using the same ammo.
Inside 10 yards, it is not so far off that I would refuse to rely on it but it is not the most precise weapon. Even my XDc is a better shooter. I do not have any of the fit issues illustrated above. Mine was manufactured earlier in '12 though I bought in Dec.
Is S&W doing anything under warranty?
brushy bill
03-23-13, 15:12
deleted post
Took mine out to the range for some more testing. It is not nearly as accurate as my P228 I shot during the same session.
From 20 yards, the groups were much larger using the same ammo.
Inside 10 yards, it is not so far off that I would refuse to rely on it but it is not the most precise weapon. Even my XDc is a better shooter. I do not have any of the fit issues illustrated above. Mine was manufactured earlier in '12 though I bought in Dec.
Is S&W doing anything under warranty?
We shall see - I have a shipping label en route and am going to give S&W a chance to tighten things up on this gun. We'll see how they respond.
Well my M&P just arrived back home from the mothership. They replaced the barrel and slide. The barrel is on of the new 1:10 twist rate pieces and the slide-to-barrel fit is much, much tighter than before. I suspect this will only help. I'll get it to the range soon enough and wring it out.
gc-seattle
05-15-13, 13:56
Fn D00d did the change fix your accuracy issue?
My new (10/1/12) M&P9 has a similar gap (can see daylight when in battery). Did not want to waste the ammo wringing it out for accuracy so instead sent it back to Smith. I just received it back with a note that said that nothing was wrong and it met their accuracy standard. I have a hard time believing that it will be accurate past 15yds with daylight shining between the barrel hood and slide.
Now do I waste the ammo to prove it is inaccurate and send it back again or just send it back stating that a gap like that is unacceptable?
My 2012 M&P 9 FS seems plenty accurate for its intended purpose. I get tight groups at 15 yards and hit steel easily at 25 yards. The barrel lockup is very tight. There is no discernible gap between the barrel hood and the slide.
saddlerocker
05-15-13, 16:59
Fn D00d did the change fix your accuracy issue?
My new (10/1/12) M&P9 has a similar gap (can see daylight when in battery). Did not want to waste the ammo wringing it out for accuracy so instead sent it back to Smith. I just received it back with a note that said that nothing was wrong and it met their accuracy standard. I have a hard time believing that it will be accurate past 15yds with daylight shining between the barrel hood and slide.
Now do I waste the ammo to prove it is inaccurate and send it back again or just send it back stating that a gap like that is unacceptable?
Wow, really!?
Go shoot the gun dude.
PathofPain
05-15-13, 21:12
Just following up on my previous post with a data point on the M&P9. Had a production date of late Nov 2012. Measurements of the barrel and slide:
barrel hood width (at loaded chamber indicator) - .397
Slide notch (at loaded chamber indicator) - .403
Barrel hood OAL - 1.2125
Slide opening OAL - 1.2195
It is a 5-6" gun. That is from me bench resting it at 25 yards. I imagine it would open up a bit if offhand shooting. As a small comparison, my gen 2 Glock 17 will shoot about 4-5" at 25 yards. I imagine with a better shooter, both of those numbers may come down a bit, but I do believe the M&P to be a slightly less accurate firearm at 25 yards. Is it horrendous? No. Could it be better? Absolutely.
I will update if these numbers or my shooting skills change:D
I'm seeing some of the retailers have stock M&P 9mm barrels in stock, I've read elsewhere that they are indeed the newer barrels with the new twist rate. Would it be worth purchasing one of these and testing it out in my M&P?
Obviously it wouldn't provide the level of accuracy that one of the fitted barrels would, but it might improve some of the guns that are >8" guns. It might make them 4-5" guns while waiting for their turn on the fitted barrel list.
Assuming that what I read (on another forum) isn't complete bull. This IS the internet after all.
Fn D00d did the change fix your accuracy issue?
I'll just quote myself from another forum...
Well I had an interesting day at the range with my newly returned M&P9. I started with 60 rounds of crappy Tulammo - and it shot much more accurately. Shortly thereafter the range master approached and said I couldn't use Tula. Said steel case was fine, but those were steel core. He broke out a magnet and showed me. I'll be....they are steel cored. So I bought a 100 box of WWB. The instant I started using WWB.....bigtime vertical stringing at 10 yards. Horizontal spread was a couple of inches....vertical was an honest-to-goodness 8+ inches. I just couldn't fathom it. I broke out the Kahr P9, my little compact....that thing was a tack driver at the same distance. One ragged hole. Broke out the FNX-45....wow, what a gun. Too bad I only had 50 rounds of .45. It was not quite one ragged hole (almost), but that was my first time firing it. Back to the M&P....sheer embarrassment.
Now believe me, I subscribe to the 'Its the Indian not the arrow' mentality. But I don't know what to do with this gun. I came home ready to put it up for sale immediately. Before I do that, though, I need to bring my stepson with me. He is an outstanding awarded marksman and loves the M&P platform. I need him to take it out and make sure it isn't just me.
So far, it ain't lookin' good.
One interesting note about the Tula vs the WWB....the Tula was a pretty soft load. Consistent but low on power. The WWB was noticeably stouter. Unless it was my shooting falling apart, that still points to early unlocking. A softer charge might have let the gun remain locked for a sufficient amount of time while a stouter charge may have found the unlocking happening earlier after ignition.
Right now I think my M&P is the most ergonomic, comfortable, reliable way to miss my target. But I'll reserve full judgement until I get back to the range with my stepson.
After all was said and done, I sold it. Indian or arrow, I saw little point in keeping it when I have several guns I shoot well already. Chasing down the problem seemed like a fool's errand.
I like the quality and ergos of the M&P line though, and I would consider another, just not a 9mm.
Does that range guy look like this...?
http://imageshack.us/a/img163/531/phillip2c.jpg
The ferrous material in Tula and similar bullets is in the jacket, so while it'll still spark on steel targets and traps, it's not bloody well "steel-cored" or "armor-piercing."
Take an extra moment on the next go-around to do the shooting world a favor; ask to borrow the magnet for a moment, then explain to him the flaw in his knowledge base (or his deliberate decision to blow smoke up your bum; could be either one...) while you pull out The Executive Branch and piss on the magnet.
I sold two out of three of my M&P 9mm FS models and put the money towards a CZ 75 SP-01. It happily punches groups less than half the size of the M&Ps and has been a joy to shoot in Steel Challenge matches. The third M&P will go to Grant for barrel fitting when my name gets to the top of the list, but in the mean time I'm having CZ Custom slick up the trigger on a second CZ…
Does that range guy look like this...?
Yeah, that was part range dumbass and part incorrect wording on my part. I already knew the Tula had a bi-metal jacket, but the range master definitely said steel core, making some comment about somehow the ruskies must get steel cheaper than lead (leading me to believe he genuinely thinks they are steel core).
Been in the same scene. Frustrating, moreso when it's an obvious "buy our super expensive ammo" ploy.
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