View Full Version : Behind the scenes at Colt
Including pictures of bolt and carrier manufacturing and front sight base installation.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/07/03/behind-the-scenes-at-colt-making-the-nations-favorite-rifle/
Very Cool! Thanks for the link.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/behind-the-scenes-at-colt/15.jpg
"Next stop on the tour.....well this here is our room where we ding up the finishes to make people :cray:." :D
Those are some awesome photos, thanks for sharing.
Magic_Salad0892
08-01-12, 03:01
http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/behind-the-scenes-at-colt/15.jpg
"Next stop on the tour.....well this here is our room where we ding up the finishes to make people :cray:." :D
Those are some awesome photos, thanks for sharing.
How old is that? Those look like 6520 (A2 upper, LW carbine barrel) uppers... which are discontinued right?
Cool to gain some insight bout how my rifle was made.
Note that the FSB install is done after barrel installation with a station carry handle to ensure that the FSB is ture. Very cool.
everyusernametaken
08-02-12, 12:21
Note that the FSB install is done after barrel installation with a station carry handle to ensure that the FSB is ture. Very cool.
Yeah, that jig setup is a big advantage for getting consistent alignment. As a point of reference, I have seen several complaints lately about zeroing brand-new PSA builds. Some of them could not be zeroed at all because windage adjustment was way out of range! These were sent back to PSA to have the FSB adjusted. Funny thing is, PSA claimed that "in range" for windage was up to 13 clicks to either side!
In contrast, when I mounted a brand-new Colt factory carry handle that I picked up recently to my 6920, without making a single click adjustment, it was precisely zeroed with windage adjustment centered, and elevation knob was two clicks from bottom, with the front sight post flush! And when I mounted a brand-new ACOG to this same rifle, I was amazed to find that it was just 2 clicks off zero right out of the box! Trijicon stated that they get the ACOG NSNs roughly near zero by zeroing them on an M4A1 at the factory.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/behind-the-scenes-at-colt/15.jpg
"Next stop on the tour.....well this here is our room where we ding up the finishes to make people :cray:."
So thaaaaaaats where my dents came from!:)
Thanks for sharing this.
Blankwaffe
08-02-12, 15:26
Yeah, that jig setup is a big advantage for getting consistent alignment. As a point of reference, I have seen several complaints lately about zeroing brand-new PSA builds. Some of them could not be zeroed at all because windage adjustment was way out of range! These were sent back to PSA to have the FSB adjusted. Funny thing is, PSA claimed that "in range" for windage was up to 13 clicks to either side!
In contrast, when I mounted a brand-new Colt factory carry handle that I picked up recently to my 6920, without making a single click adjustment, it was precisely zeroed with windage adjustment centered, and elevation knob was two clicks from bottom, with the front sight post flush! And when I mounted a brand-new ACOG to this same rifle, I was amazed to find that it was just 2 clicks off zero right out of the box! Trijicon stated that they get the ACOG NSNs roughly near zero by zeroing them on an M4A1 at the factory.
Pure speculation on my part,but I'd assume PSA is using the "in range" as a default statement.
For example,in my reading I noted that MIL-C-71186(AR) states in 3.4.6 Accuracy and Testing "rear sight centrally located in the slot for windage within plus or minus twelve clicks."
That said I'd certainly hope PSA typically can do better than minimum standard acceptance in practice.
Yeah, that jig setup is a big advantage for getting consistent alignment. As a point of reference, I have seen several complaints lately about zeroing brand-new PSA builds. Some of them could not be zeroed at all because windage adjustment was way out of range! These were sent back to PSA to have the FSB adjusted. Funny thing is, PSA claimed that "in range" for windage was up to 13 clicks to either side!
In contrast, when I mounted a brand-new Colt factory carry handle that I picked up recently to my 6920, without making a single click adjustment, it was precisely zeroed with windage adjustment centered, and elevation knob was two clicks from bottom, with the front sight post flush! And when I mounted a brand-new ACOG to this same rifle, I was amazed to find that it was just 2 clicks off zero right out of the box! Trijicon stated that they get the ACOG NSNs roughly near zero by zeroing them on an M4A1 at the factory.
My father and I had the same results when first zeroing the carry handles on our 6920s and then when both added Aimpoints to them. IIRC, I needed one click of the windage knob on my T1.
We both had the same experience with our BCM rifles, too. Mine required exactly one click of windage on the carry handle.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/behind-the-scenes-at-colt/11.jpg
At first I couldn't believe how many nicks and dings were on my SP6920 when I picked it up. I was almost ready to tell my FFL to box it back up and send it right back, but I did the paperwork on it anyway. Then I examined a few off-the-shelf ones at other shops and found out that mine was no anomaly. Colt obviously doesn't need to care about the ones being sold to the government, but us consumers would really like to buy new firearms without any cosmetic blemishes on them.
For example,in my reading I noted that MIL-C-71186(AR) states in 3.4.6 Accuracy and Testing "rear sight centrally located in the slot for windage within plus or minus twelve clicks.".
"A series of 10 rounds fired from each carbine at a range of 91.4 meters shall be within the extreme spread and targeting area (heavy outline) specified in Figure I" with "rear sight centrally located in the slot for windage within plus or minus twelve clicks."
The width of the heavy outline shown in Figure 1 is 16 inches so theoretically the carbine could have the max 12 clicks and still be 8 inches away from the center of the target and still be within spec. You have to factor in the max 5" 10-shot group but you get the idea. The M4 has goofy click values I'm too lazy to look up but they're between .5 MOA and 1MOA so even going large that's 12 clicks allowable plus the 8 (give or take) to get to center.
Page 11 here (http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/milspec/MIL-C-71186_(AR).pdf)
How old is that? Those look like 6520 (A2 upper, LW carbine barrel) uppers... which are discontinued right?
Very recently, 03JUL12. that's the .mil side of the house by the auto lowers in some of the pictures and the article, I'm sure Colt will sell a military any combination they order.
We toured Colt back in May, and since we couldn't take the pictures you see here I didn't feel the need to post about. They gave us a coin, t-shirt, and one of the used buttons used to rifle the barrels, it is still sharp after 200 passes.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/behind-the-scenes-at-colt/11.jpg
At first I couldn't believe how many nicks and dings were on my SP6920 when I picked it up. I was almost ready to tell my FFL to box it back up and send it right back, but I did the paperwork on it anyway. Then I examined a few off-the-shelf ones at other shops and found out that mine was no anomaly. Colt obviously doesn't need to care about the ones being sold to the government, but us consumers would really like to buy new firearms without any cosmetic blemishes on them.
All the ARs are made on the military side then sold to Colt's civilian side for distribution. They can currently make 700 rifles a day and are working to get that up to 900. They also make the entire 240B and M249 barrels.
Hmm I swear some expert on the interweb told me that Colt doesn't produce any of their own parts. Obviously the G&A article is a hoax.
On a more serious note, I would like to get my mitts on a couple of those 6520 uppers.
Beat Trash
08-03-12, 09:30
I was under the exact opposite impression. I was told that Colt either does make or has the ability to make all parts in-house. This includes everything down to the smallest pin and spring.
Colt kinda makes you re-think the BCM "blem" components, huh?;)
I heard this somewhere
It's not a fashion show.
Colt obviously doesn't need to care about the ones being sold to the government, but us consumers would really like to buy new firearms without any cosmetic blemishes on them.
This is incorrect. Colt does care about how the guns are built and following the TDP. It is the GOVT that DOESN'T care about Fit and Finish (as they realize that there are more important things to be concerned about).
As I said in the other Colt thread, Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies. ;)
C4
I was under the exact opposite impression. I was told that Colt either does make or has the ability to make all parts in-house. This includes everything down to the smallest pin and spring.
Correct. They also sub out certain parts so that if they have a machine down, they still have parts coming in.
It is also my understanding that parts made by outside sources get much more scrutiny than parts made in house.
C4
Traveshamockery
08-03-12, 10:33
I heard this somewhere
All things being equal, I prefer to apply my own dings, scratches, and scuffs. Each has a story. I'd rather the tale not be, "Yeah, this big scrape is from the pick bin in Colt's factory."
All things being equal, I prefer to apply my own dings, scratches, and scuffs. Each has a story. I'd rather the tale not be, "Yeah, this big scrape is from the pick bin in Colt's factory."
At the end of the day, it matters not. If you are buying an AR to be pretty or think there is some value in adding your own "dings" there isn't. History/Story on a ding, scratch or scuff? Who cares??? All my guns have marks on them from training classes. First, you will never know when it occurred and won't find it till after the class. If you do realize it at that instant, it is probably because you were trying to do something with a tool and gouged the chit out of the gun (as it slipped). Going to tell people that story? No, probably not.
What matters is the system used to build your fighting weapon is correct and produces a great AR. This is what matters and what you should be concerned about more than anything.
C4
scoutfsu99
08-03-12, 10:45
Jesus Christ, are people crying over Colt's scratches and scrapes here too? Don't like it, don't buy it.
Traveshamockery
08-03-12, 10:46
At the end of the day, it matters not. If you are buying an AR to be pretty or think there is some value in adding your own "dings" there isn't.
What matters is the system used to build your fighting weapon is correct and produces a great AR. This is what matters an what you shold be concerned about more than anything.
C4
Grant, I agree 100%, which is why I said "all things being equal". I think all of us would purchase a pristine unblemished AR over a scuffed up functionally identical version. I also know our members here would take a beat-to-heck Colt over a beautiful-on-the-outside BM.
I would never compromise on performance of a tool like an AR just to obtain a prettier finish. Fortunately, I didn't have to, because Tier-1 quality and a clean factory finish aren't mutually exclusive. My Noveske was pristine when I bought it. The scratches and scrapes are mine alone, and I prefer it that way.
Grant, I agree 100%, which is why I said "all things being equal". I think all of us would purchase a pristine unblemished AR over a scuffed up functionally identical version. I also know our members here would take a beat-to-heck Colt over a beautiful-on-the-outside BM.
I would never compromise on performance of a tool like an AR just to obtain a prettier finish. Fortunately, I didn't have to, because Tier-1 quality and a clean factory finish aren't mutually exclusive. My Noveske was pristine when I bought it. The scratches and scrapes are mine alone, and I prefer it that way.
Would they prefer it? Ya problably. Do they put much thought into it? Not much.
Small shops like BCM, Noveske, etc are able to produce AR's without a mark on them. The reason for it is because they do not have to produce the volume that Colt does. If they did, we would see many more marks on their guns. So comparing Colt to Noveske just isn't fair IMHO.
C4
but us consumers would really like to buy new firearms without any cosmetic blemishes on them.
Curious, I wanted a firearm I could send torrents of lead downrange with..
A reliable friend I can count on for training/recreational purposes and especially if god forbid the 1% chips go down......
I guess I'm missing something..........
Jesus Christ, are people crying over Colt's scratches and scrapes here too? Don't like it, don't buy it.
^^^^^ Logic award of the year
The linked article contains a link to another article that states, "Remington Arms Company, LLC (“Remington”), a member of the Freedom Group family of companies, is pleased to announce the award of an indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity contract for the procurement of a maximum of 120,000 M4/M4A1 carbines by the US Army Contracting Command in Warren, Michigan, on Friday, April 20, 2012." It also states, "The M4 and M4A1 carbines are the US Army’s primary individual combat weapons and will be produced by Remington to the US Army’s M4 technical data package."
So now that Remingtons will be made to the TDP, does that mean they'll be "just as good" as a Colt? Maybe it's too early to tell what Remington's QC will be like, but it is an interesting question.
The linked article contains a link to another article that states, "Remington Arms Company, LLC (“Remington”), a member of the Freedom Group family of companies, is pleased to announce the award of an indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity contract for the procurement of a maximum of 120,000 M4/M4A1 carbines by the US Army Contracting Command in Warren, Michigan, on Friday, April 20, 2012." It also states, "The M4 and M4A1 carbines are the US Army’s primary individual combat weapons and will be produced by Remington to the US Army’s M4 technical data package."
So now that Remingtons will be made to the TDP, does that mean they'll be "just as good" as a Colt? Maybe it's too early to tell what Remington's QC will be like, but it is an interesting question.
That's old info....recent info is that colt is fighting to get it back from Remington and the outcome is uncertain....
Eta:
http://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/anleihen/Colt-Defense-LLC-Moody-s-confirms-Colt-Defense-s-CFR-at-Caa1-outlook-negative-1978400
More positively, as of July 24, 2012, Colt's bid protest regarding a five-year contract awarded to Remington to supply up to 120,0000 M4/M4A1 carbines, worth $84 million over the term of the contract for the U.S. Army was sustained according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office bid docket. The outcome is uncertain.
If "the outcome is uncertain," it seems more correct to say that the contract will "likely" go back to Colt, not that it "is going" back.
I was curious because I was wondering whether Colts would become less expensive due to increased competition and a need to boost civilian sales to make up for the lost contract. Looks like we'll have to wait and see.
If "the outcome is uncertain," it seems more correct to say that the contract will "likely" go back to Colt, not that it "is going" back.
I was curious because I was wondering whether Colts would become less expensive due to increased competition and a need to boost civilian sales to make up for the lost contract. Looks like we'll have to wait and see.
Cheaper?? You can commonly find Colt's for $1k and under. How much cheaper do they need to be??
C4
Cheaper?? You can commonly find Colt's for $1k and under. How much cheaper do they need to be??C4"Need to be" is irrelevant. I've been considering another purchase. If the market situation changes so that prices go down, I'm willing to wait so I can pick up another Colt for the lowest price I can find. What's unreasonable about that?
"Need to be" is irrelevant. I've been considering another purchase. If the market situation changes so that prices go down, I'm willing to wait so I can pick up another Colt for the lowest price I can find. What's unreasonable about that?
Well, as a Colt Commercial Distr. I know what I pay. I also know what Colt has in the gun (roughly).
So if you are going to wait for Colt AR's to come down, I am afraid you will be waiting FOREVER. On top of this, we are in an election year and am quite surprised that we are seeing them as cheap as we are. This will change very soon I think.
C4
On top of this, we are in an election year and am quite surprised that we are seeing them as cheap as we are. This will change very soon I think.I'm with you on all that.
I've been thinking about waiting until right after the election, in case there's a reason for prices to drop (that is, if things go well). Then again, prices could also skyrocket, if things go badly. It's a gamble. So in the meantime, I'm stocking up on spare parts and expendable items, which eats into the budget.
jonconsiglio
08-04-12, 10:07
If "the outcome is uncertain," it seems more correct to say that the contract will "likely" go back to Colt, not that it "is going" back.
I was curious because I was wondering whether Colts would become less expensive due to increased competition and a need to boost civilian sales to make up for the lost contract. Looks like we'll have to wait and see.
My understanding is that Remington can only use the TDP to produce military rifles. They cannot use the TDP to build civilian rifles as Colt does.
So, it will not affect the civilian market.
I'm with you on all that.
I've been thinking about waiting until right after the election, in case there's a reason for prices to drop (that is, if things go well). Then again, prices could also skyrocket, if things go badly. It's a gamble. So in the meantime, I'm stocking up on spare parts and expendable items, which eats into the budget.
I personally don't think prices will go down if the Republican wins. What trumps who the President is, is the constant talk of a AWB, Mag/ammo ban/limitation. So as long as Congress keeps talking about this and attempting to sneak them into bills, people will continue with the panic buying.
C4
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.