View Full Version : M-4 reloading powder options?
Hey I'm new to the forum, but have a question about reloading for an M-4.
Since it's a gas gun, I am curious if there is a "sweet spot" as far as the powder burn rate when looking for a powder to reload with? I have seen some info here and there about reloading for the AR-15, but figured the shorter M-4 may change the type and amount of powder used since the barrel is shorter.
The reason I ask, is I have shot some store bought ammo and I'm having a problem with ejection. The casings are stuck in the chamber, and the extractor has ripped a chunk out of the rim of the casing. I'm thinking it might have to do with chamber pressure at the time of extraction is causing the problem.
Thanks for any help!!
Boxerglocker
08-02-12, 11:28
Store bought, factory new ammo (brand) or re-manufactured?
The ammo I shot before was some cheapy stuff I found at a gun show a while back. That may have had as much to do with it as anything.
I'm just looking to load up some ammo and wondering where the breaking point is for powder being too fast, or too slow for an M-4 gas system. I assume for a short barrel, it would tend to need a bit faster burn rate.
Select powder based on bullet weight. Slower powders for 75/77 loads (RE-15, Varget, TAC) and quicker powders for 55 loads (H335, 2230, TAC). TAC may not be the ideal, but it's pretty versatile and covers the spectrum nicely.
If you shoot heavy loads and you find reliability issues, you may need to back off a bit and/or switch to a slightly quicker powder and give up some velocity.
More than the bbl length, you'll find you'll need to match your powder/load to your gas system length. The fact that you are sticking cases and ripping rims makes me wonder if you are overgassed in which case you'll need to back off a bit.
Thanks for the info.
I am wanting to use some 52gr bullets to hunt with. I have some Benchmark, H322, and IMR3031 and see what happens. I was just curious what the breaking points were as far as what is too fast, and what is too slow as far as burn rates for what I'm going to be shooting?
It's an M-4 so the length of the gas system is pretty short.
polymorpheous
08-02-12, 17:24
Billy Ray,
You may also have an out of spec chamber.
Who made the barrel?
Is this a kit gun or a custom build?
It was sort of a custom build I suppose. A buddy of mine helped me order everything off the internet quite a few years ago. Can't even remember the site I ordered the upper from. Right after I bought it I went to shoot it with that cheapy ammo I bought at the gun show and within a few rounds the extractor was ripping the rims of cases and the brass sticking in the chamber. Sadly I kept putting off looking to fix it until recently.
Is the manufacturer usually marked on an upper that I can find on it? Are out of spec chambers something that happens from time to time?
I had a gunsmith look at the chamber not long ago. I had read elsewhere that my problem could happen if the chamber was rough and unfinished. He checked it out and said it looked fine. He did remove the extractor and put a small oring with the spring and said that extractor problems have been known to cause this problem.
I am loading up some ammo tonight and heading to the range in the morning to see if either that fixes it, or some ammo with proper powder does the trick.
polymorpheous
08-02-12, 17:42
My bet is tight chamber.
You can either get it gauged and reamed.
Or buy a new barrel and mount it on your existing upper.
I would get it gauged for sure.
Okay thanks for the info man!!!
If things don't go well at the range in the morning, the gunsmith we use is on the way home and I will be paying him another visit. I'll ask him to gauge the chamber and see if it's out of spec like you mention.
Okay thanks for the info man!!!
If things don't go well at the range in the morning, the gunsmith we use is on the way home and I will be paying him another visit. I'll ask him to gauge the chamber and see if it's out of spec like you mention.
Ideally it will be a 5.56 chamber or at least something like 223 wylde
Tell the gunsmith that is what you are interested in. Not whether it is "in spec" but if it is "in spec" for a true 556 chamber.
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Well just back from the range and still having issues with the extractor deforming/bending the rim of the casings. It didn't rip any chunks out of the rim though. But it deformed and bent the rim enough to where it ruined the casing from being worth reloading.
I shot loads with Benchmark, H322, and IMR3031. All of the them I shot on the lightest recommended powder charge. So I don't think it's an issue of being overgassed.
Stopped by the gunsmith's shop I use, and he wasn't there. So I guess I'm just stuck in limbo till I can get him to check the chamber again.
Boxerglocker
08-03-12, 11:42
The ammo I shot before was some cheapy stuff I found at a gun show a while back. That may have had as much to do with it as anything.
I'm just looking to load up some ammo and wondering where the breaking point is for powder being too fast, or too slow for an M-4 gas system. I assume for a short barrel, it would tend to need a bit faster burn rate.
I would suggest case gauging those rounds.... gun show reloads can be hit or miss. A buddy of mine bought 500 rounds of LC brass .308 reloads that ALL were out of spec and jammed in the chamber of his new Sig. I had to pogo several rounds before we decided that it just wasn't worth it anymore. I ended up pulling all the bullets, resizing, trimmed the cases and reloaded all of them for him to recoup some cost back.
Are you running a heavy enough buffer? H2 minimum... Possibly H3. I have some Carbeans that need H3s to calm them down.
There seems to be something wrong with the rifles timing, buffer or gas problem.
Are you running a heavy enough buffer? H2 minimum... Possibly H3. I have some Carbeans that need H3s to calm them down.
Actually I was wondering the same thing earlier today when i was thinking about this. I'm really not sure what buffer I currently have. It's just the one that came with the rifle. I know it's weighted cuz I can feel and hear a weight sliding around inside the buffer. I was thinking of just going with the H3 and see what happens. Maybe it will slow down the bolt carrier just enough to take care of the problem.
Okay I weighed my buffer and it weight almost exactly 3oz. I have read where the H3 weights 5.6oz, so I think I will order an H3 and see if that helps with the issue.
Also, as far as the buffer, anybody happen to know if there is an absolute maximum length they can be? My father has a machine shop and I am thinking of first trying to machine out a long metal piece and take the buffer apart and put it in for extra weight. But thinking I would have to add overall length to get the weight up enough.
Leonidas24
08-03-12, 23:53
Okay I weighed my buffer and it weight almost exactly 3oz. I have read where the H3 weights 5.6oz, so I think I will order an H3 and see if that helps with the issue.
Also, as far as the buffer, anybody happen to know if there is an absolute maximum length they can be? My father has a machine shop and I am thinking of first trying to machine out a long metal piece and take the buffer apart and put it in for extra weight. But thinking I would have to add overall length to get the weight up enough.
Stop and cease fire. A standard or "carbine" buffer as they're called if I recall correctly weigh between 2.8 and 3.0 oz so it sounds like that's what you have. Generally, a "H" buffer or heavy buffer comes in at a whopping 3.9 oz and is generally the accepted standard for rifles operating under normal pretenses. Judging from the way your rifle is behaving it's likely over gassed, so, yes an H3 is likely the best thing suited for your particular issue; however, if your current rifle's buffer is properly put together it should have a roll pin holding it together and that roll pin can be removed and you can use the weights inside the H3 buffer to "tune," for lack of a better term, your rifle to spec.
Also the weights inside an H3 buffer are tungsten and the weights inside a carbine buffer are steel. Play around with the steel and tungsten weights until you find what works, or just buy a bunch of buffers and be done with it.
polymorpheous
08-04-12, 06:05
I had no idea that an over gassed system could cause stuck cases and torn rims with both factory ammo and reloads.
Someone wanna clue me in?
Leonidas24
08-04-12, 07:49
I had no idea that an over gassed system could cause stuck cases and torn rims with both factory ammo and reloads.
Someone wanna clue me in?
I think it is probable that issue A is compounded by issue B and is causing the OP's issue of stuck cases and torn rims. Issue A being a tight chamber and issue B being over gassed.
More than anything else I was trying to clue him in that the bubbafication of one's rifle is not an acceptable way to attempt to solve a problem.
polymorpheous
08-04-12, 07:51
More than anything else I was trying to clue him in that the bubbafication of one's rifle is not an acceptable way to attempt to solve a problem.
110% agreed!
Stop and cease fire. A standard or "carbine" buffer as they're called if I recall correctly weigh between 2.8 and 3.0 oz so it sounds like that's what you have. Generally, a "H" buffer or heavy buffer comes in at a whopping 3.9 oz and is generally the accepted standard for rifles operating under normal pretenses. Judging from the way your rifle is behaving it's likely over gassed, so, yes an H3 is likely the best thing suited for your particular issue; however, if your current rifle's buffer is properly put together it should have a roll pin holding it together and that roll pin can be removed and you can use the weights inside the H3 buffer to "tune," for lack of a better term, your rifle to spec.
Also the weights inside an H3 buffer are tungsten and the weights inside a carbine buffer are steel. Play around with the steel and tungsten weights until you find what works, or just buy a bunch of buffers and be done with it.
LOL, ya we held off on totally bubbaficating my buffer. We got it apart, then messed around and found it wasn't going to be possible to add length. We did have some tungsten weight laying around and were able to get the weight of the buffer up to about 4.25oz. May be a few days before I can get up to the range and see if it cures the problem. I'm hopeful that it does slow the bolt carrier enough to end the issue with bending/ripping case rims.
If you are in/near Louisiana I have a Christensen reamer for insuring you have a 5.56 chamber. It worked on my non-5.56 barrels that were marked 5.56. That and h2 or H3 buffers fixed them all. You could pay me a visit and borrow the use of said reamer. It won't leave my possession though.
Get your chamber checked and squared away then google search AeroE's Accuracy Load which uses 52gr SMK, 27gr RE15, and Remington 7 1/2 Primers.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Graystroke
08-08-12, 18:09
I've found the IMR-8208-XBR works great for both my .204 and .223.
The .204 load range with 32gr bullets is 27.5-29.0 and it shoots best right at 28.0.
The .223 load range with 60gr bullets is 21.5-23.6 and I just shot a 4 shot group under 1" at 100 yards with 22.4 grains.
I use RL10. It burns a little fast so I'm hoping it's all gone by the time it reaches the end of a 16 inch barrel. I've had good luck and performance with it in Mid length and M-4 length barrels. kwg
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