View Full Version : running a vertical foregrip and magpul afg... at the same time??
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 18:27
I have a buddy that tried something that I've never
seen before.. he was running a vertical foregrip and
an magpul afg on the bottom rail.. together! the
VFG was closer to the magwell while the afg was
out front.. I thought he was crazy until he let me
get ahold of it.. and it's kind of suprising how easy
you can change to the grip of your choice and them
not get in the way of each other. Has anyone else
doing this?? hell I've never even heard of this until
I saw it.. What's your guys thoughts about it.. heck..
I might do it.
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 18:53
But why utterly useless? because nobody does it. His
philosophy behind it was use the afg on quick closer
follow up shots that need a quick target acquisition
and transition and the VFG so he can brace his arm
against his side for longer single shots.. kinda makes
sense to me.
Sounds utterly useless.
BangBang77
08-04-12, 18:58
Doesn't make much sense to me?
I say pick a grip that works and stick with it. I don't see a need to have multiple grip attachments hanging off the forearm that can complicate decision making should said rifle ever be needed for something other than the square range.
Just my 2 cents.
justlikeanyoneelse
08-04-12, 19:16
I understand what your buddy was going for, its good in theory but very rarely are good theories practical. First you can achieve the afg "grip" without the afg...it just won't be as comfortable. Second, rifles should follow the KISS law, using both afg and vfg would be adding unnecessary bulk. Thirdly it would look very very odd....this is just imo. However if you want to do it more power to ya, its a free country...hell I have seen a lot weirder than that on ARs.
Unless you train for very specific applications such as precision shooting I believe that your grip should almost always be as close to the same as possible. Why? Because if your life is at stake you will default to your lowest level of training. A lot of people have reasons to strap on things and then try to validate them. Why not, as has been often repeated, "let the mission drive the gear train". In a stressful situation your training is what you rely on to live not the hope that the combat fairy will land on you and anoint you the combat God. Hope is not a course of action. As posted above the VFG can be used as you describe it and also as a hand stop for the AFG type of grip. Does he really train enough to properly use both well enough without any conscious thought to utilize what he sees as an advantage in one over the other?
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 19:35
ok, good input.. I guess he is trying to think outside of
the box.. he always considered himself somewhat of
a revolutionary..lol
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 19:38
No I don't think the trains enough but he is just one of
those "brain process things differently" kind of guys.
Who knows he may be able to pull it off. But I get what
your saying.
Unless you train for very specific applications such as precision shooting I believe that your grip should almost always be as close to the same as possible. Why? Because if your life is at stake you will default to your lowest level of training. A lot of people have reasons to strap on things and then try to validate them. Why not, as has been often repeated, "let the mission drive the gear train". In a stressful situation your training is what you rely on to live not the hope that the combat fairy will land on you and anoint you the combat God. Hope is not a course of action. As posted above the VFG can be used as you describe it and also as a hand stop for the AFG type of grip. Does he really train enough to properly use both well enough without any conscious thought to utilize what he sees as an advantage in one over the other?
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 19:41
But you gotta love the afg in the sense you can use your
index finger on the small front plate and get some rearward
pressure when firing to help stabalize. But he probably just
does need to pick one or the other.
Unless you train for very specific applications such as precision shooting I believe that your grip should almost always be as close to the same as possible. Why? Because if your life is at stake you will default to your lowest level of training. A lot of people have reasons to strap on things and then try to validate them. Why not, as has been often repeated, "let the mission drive the gear train". In a stressful situation your training is what you rely on to live not the hope that the combat fairy will land on you and anoint you the combat God. Hope is not a course of action. As posted above the VFG can be used as you describe it and also as a hand stop for the AFG type of grip. Does he really train enough to properly use both well enough without any conscious thought to utilize what he sees as an advantage in one over the other?
ok, good input.. I guess he is trying to think outside of
the box.. he always considered himself somewhat of
a revolutionary..lol
No offense to you or your friend, but if "the box" is proper technique, he's definitely thinking outside of it. One class with a reputable instructor will demonstrate why. I could go on and exposit why, but until it's applied tangibly, it will be wasted bandwidth. My best advice is to sell the AFG and put the $20 toward a carbine class. Show up to said class with the VFG in a bag - ready to be attached in case it becomes desirable after some instruction.
If you needed to stabilize yourself for a standing, long distance shot couldn't you simply transition to an "Olympic Offhand" style stance to brace your forearm against your side, without the need for another grip? I've shot this way before with an AR fairly effectively, although it pales in comparison to a kneeling or prone shot.
http://jimgetzen.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ft-offhand.jpg
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 19:52
sell the afg huh? not a fan I guess. Do the advice
against these in carbine courses?
No offense to you or your friend, but if "the box" is proper technique, he's definitely thinking outside of it. One class with a reputable instructor will demonstrate why. I could go on and exposit why, but until it's applied tangibly, it will be wasted bandwidth. My best advice is to sell the AFG and put the $20 toward a carbine class. Show up to said class with the VFG in a bag - ready to be attached in case it becomes desirable after some instruction.
If you needed to stabilize yourself for a standing, long distance shot couldn't you simply transition to an "Olympic Offhand" style stance to brace your forearm against your side, without the need for another grip? I've shot this way before with an AR fairly effectively, although it pales in comparison to a kneeling or prone shot.
http://jimgetzen.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ft-offhand.jpg
I would categorize that stance as a "specific application" if ever there was one as far as it pertaining to a combat carbine.
Seen people run a cut down version of the AFG with a VFG here ala
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz338/nohs_wrestling/8b75c9f1.jpg
Heavy Metal
08-04-12, 20:08
I have never understood why people put their VFG all the way back. It kind of defeats some of the advantage.
If you are going to do that, you may as well use a magwell hold.
Magic_Salad0892
08-04-12, 20:18
Seen people run a cut down version of the AFG with a VFG here ala
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz338/nohs_wrestling/8b75c9f1.jpg
seems unnecessary to me. People will bolt anything on a rifle....
Y'know.... that's not that bad... I can definetely see what the user was trying for here.
I still wouldn't use it though.
But why utterly useless? because nobody does it. His
philosophy behind it was use the afg on quick closer
follow up shots that need a quick target acquisition
and transition and the VFG so he can brace his arm
against his side for longer single shots.. kinda makes
sense to me.
Does your friend post on here? I seem to recall someone posting a rifle set up that way with the same reasoning this year. If so and he hasn't stopped using both, you may want to keep your distance or have an intervention and get him to a reputable class.
It's ssracer that posted this pic not too long ago. He's got the cut down rig on this SBR.........
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7579893420_dc82845ecb_b.jpg
It's ssracer that posted this pic not too long ago. He's got the cut down rig on this SBR.........
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7579893420_dc82845ecb_b.jpg
I remember him posting that because it was his buddy in the pic using the magwell grip and ignoring the VFG/AFG.
But that's not who I was remembering. This guy had a VFG close to the receiver and the AFG out a bit. His reasoning was exactly what the OP posted and he got chewed up for it.
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 20:39
I guess he isn't the only one. awesome
It's ssracer that posted this pic not too long ago. He's got the cut down rig on this SBR.........
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7579893420_dc82845ecb_b.jpg
Honorthecall81
08-04-12, 20:41
I mean I guess if it's working for him. I'm not gonna
chew him up about it. I guess he is just practicing
AR- jeet kune do lol expressing himself through his
rifle.
I remember him posting that because it was his buddy in the pic using the magwell grip and ignoring the VFG/AFG.
But that's not who I was remembering. This guy had a VFG close to the receiver and the AFG out a bit. His reasoning was exactly what the OP posted and he got chewed up for it.
I guess he isn't the only one. awesome
I'm actually trying to do the same thing as well. I only use the front half of the afg and would like like to mate the two together and get the advantage of both.
Running them separately seems assanine but some my experiment may be as well. I wish magpul would make a 1/2 size afg.
Found it: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60345&highlight=VFG+AFG&page=3
Scroll down to post 58. Is sneekemt your buddy?
I found the AFG useful for one class, long enough to learn the grip technique that that AFG was designed around, after that I found the AFG to be cumbersome and of very limited utility and I removed it and put my vertical grip back on. Cutting an AFG down, as SSRacer's picture demonstrates, replaces a section of rail cover and gains a forward stop; it beats tossing the AFG in the trash.
"Shoulda never gave you *****s rail space!!"
http://img.tapatalk.com/aee8102c-4084-bac7.jpg
Could not help myself.
ETA: **** yo couch...
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12052.jpg
ummmmmm, definitely reinventing the wheel ;)
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/sneekeedanno/2011-06-12052.jpg
ummmmmm, definitely reinventing the wheel ;)
Agreed - that's like taking a perfectly usable steering wheel and replacing it with levers and pulleys.
All that clutter on there would: piss me off/get in the way/make me fumble around more/get caught in equipment and environment. Added weight too.
I tend to look to competition...do you see any 3-gunners using multiple forward grips? Do you see any of them use a forward grip at all? I realize 3-gun isn't combat but I've participated in both and the shooting skills don't change. Just my opinion...
Failure2Stop
08-05-12, 12:38
This had been brought up before. It's a useless addition. Learn how to use them for real before trying to combine them.
Thinking outside the box is fine, but first have use for and mastery of the box before deviating from the sound and solid knowledge contained within.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Just laughed watching Stars Earn Stripes when I saw Nick Lachey with a SCAR with an AFG and a vertical grip.
This is a case of "I can fit more shit on my gun than you".
I have felt that there's for sure a difference between long-term ideals in shooting and then there's short term ideals.
By this I mean that when we're shooting thumb over bore with an AFG we're utilizing our grip and muscles to go full speed with the most control. This isn't the first choice when you're very fatigued, however.
A VFG and / or other grip styles do suit fatigue more than an AFG. We end up with our hand further back, we begin using other muscles that are more commonly used, all that.
What the AFG is great for to ME is taking strain of the typical thumb over bore off the wrist, which does cause one to get fatigued. That doesn't mean it makes it perfect, but you get the point.
Where I see both the AFG plus a VFG coming in FOR ME is if I'm on a hunt and my backpack, jacket, and all that ckrap is hanging on me and these layers vary through my day. It is more productive to broomstick further back to get the butt in my shoulder which is covered in straps than to go all tactical some times for sure. Would I use a VFG as a pressure point? why the heck not.
I do not run both, but I wouldn't feel bad trying it for myself in the applications I personally have. A VFG is a handstop for me half the time, but I like the idea shown in the images posted.. the AFG VFG hybrid is perfection.
Whitebrad25
08-27-12, 23:11
But why utterly useless? because nobody does it. His
philosophy behind it was use the afg on quick closer
follow up shots that need a quick target acquisition
and transition and the VFG so he can brace his arm
against his side for longer single shots.. kinda makes
sense to me.
I read this far in the thread so someone after might have touched on what I am going to say: I would simply use the magwell grip if you feel that close quarters movement is impaired with a standard grip.
Frankly, between the AFG, standard VGs, and simple hand stops, they all function in 1 way; they all help you get a consistent grip. All consistency is lost when you have two grips made for convenient changes....It is easier to train with consistency than adding un-needed variables, IMHO. If your, and his, experience is different, more power to you. Just seems like a more complicated rig than it has to be...
Whitebrad25
08-27-12, 23:13
Just laughed watching Stars Earn Stripes when I saw Nick Lachey with a SCAR with an AFG and a vertical grip.
As hilarious as it would be to watch that show, don't. I hate thinking that those douchebags look at their ratings and think about how awesome they are when, in reality, they are comic relief.
sinlessorrow
08-27-12, 23:17
reminds me of these two guys I saw pics of who were in the military running a grippod and a VFG.
reminds me of these two guys I saw pics of who were in the military running a grippod and a VFG.
Any time I found myself on a Super-FOB for some reason, pointing and laughing at those people was a great way to unwind. Pure, unadulterated, unfiltered - assclownery.
I guess he is trying to think outside of the box..
One should find the box in the first place, then live in it for a while before venturing forth..
It's not useles because "...nobody does it..." :rolleyes: That's you taking facts and trying to shoehorn them into fitting a pre-conceived conclusion, instead of using facts to arrive at a reasonable one.
He's not a revolutionary for doing some weird, unnecessary, inconsistent hand-jive; he's just a spazz...
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