View Full Version : Ohio man arrested with weapons in theater, Lawyer with gun at Batman movie arrested
Ohio man arrested with weapons in theater
http://usat.ly/O2O2PK
An Ohio man faces weapons charges after police in Westlake say he walked into a movie theater to see The Dark Knight Rises carrying a satchel full of weapons, WKYC-TV reports.
A theater manager and off-duty Westlake police officer, who was working security, stopped Scott Smith shortly after he sat down in his theater seat Saturday night, WKYC says. The officer asked to search his bag, and Smith complied. A loaded 9mm Glock handgun, two additional loaded magazines and two knives were in the bag, WKYC says. A third knife was found under the man's clothes, police said.
Police Lt. Ray Arcuri tells cleveland.com that no one was taking any chances after the July 20 shooting spree that left 12 people dead at a Colorado screening of the movie. He said the officer, Jeremiah Bullins, had followed the man when he walked into the theater a half hour before showtime.
"When Bullins asked why he carried the weapons into the theater, the man said, 'No problem. I'll put them in my car.' But it was too late for that," Arcuri says.
The 37-year-old Smith was taken to the Westlake jail, where he refused to talk to police. He was charged Monday and is being held without bail.
Westlake police executed a search warrant at Smith's North Ridgeville home Monday night. Arcuri says they found about eight rifles and handguns along with "survivalists gear" such as gas masks and bulletproof vests.
EDIT 8/9/2012:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/08/08/20120808connecticut-man-had-right-carry-gun-movie-lawyer-says.html
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- The arrest of a prominent Connecticut attorney who police say had a loaded handgun at a movie theater showing the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" was baseless, his lawyer said Wednesday.
Sung H. Hwang, president-elect of the New Haven County Bar Association, had a right to carry the gun into the movie theater Tuesday night, his attorney Hugh Keefe said.
Hwang was charged with breach of peace and interfering with police after officers said they found a handgun in his waistband. He had a permit to carry the weapon, police said. He was released Tuesday night on a promise to appear in court on the misdemeanor charges, said police spokesman David Hartman.
"You have a highly prominent lawyer here," Keefe said. "You have a leading citizen of the city of New Haven. He's doing everything by the book. He has a permit to carry. He's out at a movie theater. Suddenly people are pointing guns at him."
Last month during a screening of the same film in Aurora, Colo., a man opened fire, killing 12 moviegoers and wounding 58. James Holmes, a former neuroscience student, has been arrested.
On Tuesday, officers arrived at the Criterion-Bow Tie Cinemas in New Haven shortly after 10 p.m. after managers reported a man inside with a gun. It wasn't clear whether the call was about Hwang or someone else.
About a dozen people were inside waiting for the movie to begin, police said. Officers asked each of them to raise their hands and file out, where they were patted down, according to a news release.
Police said they identified the suspect and with weapons drawn they ordered Hwang to put his hands up. They said he remained in his seat while using his cellphone and did not comply with their commands and was taken into custody by force.
The gun was found in his waistband near the small of his back, police said.
Keefe said it was his understanding that police were not going to arrest Hwang once they realized he had a gun permit, but New Haven Chief Dean M. Esserman ordered the arrest. He said Hwang lives near the theater and "has a perfect right to bring a gun anywhere he wants except an airport."
"If somebody has a problem with that law then they ought to go to Hartford and change it, not make baseless arrests," Keefe said.
A message was left for Esserman, who has praised officers who responded to the call. City officials planned a news conference Wednesday afternoon at City Hall, where they planned to issue a statement about guns in public places.
Since the Colorado shootings, several instances of people bringing weapons to showings of the film have been reported across the country.
Over the weekend, a man in northeast Ohio brought a gun, ammunition and several knives to a screening because he wanted to protect himself in case someone tried to replicate the shooting, his attorney said. The man was arrested.
ForTehNguyen
08-07-12, 18:51
so what exactly was illegal about this. I am unfamiliar with any Ohio CHL restrictions
It is an unconventional method of carry... I'm more alarmed that being arrested for CCW was somehow enough PC for a warrant to search his home!! WTF?!?
Failure2Stop
08-07-12, 19:20
OP, please post the full article.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Moose-Knuckle
08-07-12, 19:34
The 37-year-old Smith was taken to the Westlake jail, where he refused to talk to police. He was charged Monday and is being held without bail.
Westlake police executed a search warrant at Smith's North Ridgeville home Monday night. Arcuri says they found about eight rifles and handguns along with "survivalists gear" such as gas masks and bulletproof vests.
1.) No he didn't refuse to talk to the police he CHOSE to excersice his Fifth Amendment rights.
2.) WTF is "about" eight rifles and handguns. It's either eight firearms or it's not. :confused: And who gives a ****, eight LOL that is a starter kit. :D
3.) "Survivalists gear" LOL a little dated don't you think? I'm surprised they didn't use the dreaded "prepper". :rolleyes:
Now maybe this guy is mental, we don't know as of yet. Maybe he wanted to be a copy cat, maybe he wanted to have his gun there with some exrta mags for self defense in case of a shooting during the showing he was at. If he broke OH CCW law by not having the firearm on his person then that is that.
To many questions remain.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-batman-arrest-20120807,0,6641095.story
"A search of Smith's home following his arrest turned up additional weapons, according to another report on Cleveland.com. That report said those items included eight rifles and handguns as well as "survivalist's gear" such as gas masks and bulletproof vests. The site additionally said that Smith was believed to have spent some time in the military."
All irrelevant details designed to influence the reader.
"...and the fact that the patron arrived extra early and took a seat with his back to the wall at the top of the theater, a position that Westlake Police Lt. Ray Arcuri said gave Smith a "tactical advantage."
sigh...
[Lt.] Arcuri added: "When you consider the movie he was going to and what happened in Colorado, you have to wonder what would make him want to bring the weapons into that particular film. Our police officer did a great job spotting him."
Arguably, it doesn't make you wonder, Lt. Obvious.
Many questions remain. What was he charged with?
Moose-Knuckle
08-07-12, 20:33
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-batman-arrest-20120807,0,6641095.story
All irrelevant details designed to influence the reader.
sigh...
Arguably, it doesn't make you wonder, Lt. Obvious.
Yeah that's kinda of what I was thinking.
Something sounds fishy about this one.
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/attorney-ohio-moviegoer-had-gun-for-protection/e68640c5edb84ef2bebd313004f52319
Arcuri said one of the charges police may pursue for Smith is having weapons under disability. He said Smith was taking daily medication, but he would not elaborate on what that medication is.
"Our contention is that he's drug dependent," he said. "And as a result, he should not be possessing a firearm."
The theater manager first noticed Smith and a beige bag he carried over his shoulder, Arcuri said. When approached, Smith told the manager it had medical supplies inside. He then showed the manager a portion of the bag that didn't reveal the weapons.
The off-duty Westlake police officer also noticed Smith and his bag. After checking with the manager, the officer followed Smith into the empty theater.
The officer said Smith consented to a search inside the theater. Arcuri said the officer was more familiar with the bag, and he knew where to look when he found a loaded 9 mm Glock pistol with two extra loaded magazines, Arcuri said. The officer also found three knives in the bag and another knife on Smith, he said. There were also medical supplies, but Arcuri would not elaborate on what they were.
When the officer asked Smith why he brought the weapons into the theater, Smith offered to put them in his car.
...
Smith had no previous criminal record, Arcuri said. He said Smith did not have a concealed carry permit and should not have brought any weapon to the theater.
Maybe some of you can answer this for me, But following the link, and reading the article, it seems this guy showed up a 1/2 hr early, and was asked by the theater manager(also a off duty cop) to search his bag, and found a Glock, and a couple of mags.. What right does a off duty cop have to search anyone's bag?If this guy had a valid Ohio CC License,If the theater did'nt allow CC, I'm thinking all the manager/cop could do is ask him to leave. (at least that's what I was taught when I took my CC course here in OH)Getting a search warrant and searching his house? That's a little overkill is'nt it? If this guy did nothing wrong, and was excerising his right to CC, I'm thinking a PD, and a Theater manager have some explaining to do...
Reagans Rascals
08-07-12, 20:39
"...and the fact that the patron arrived extra early and took a seat with his back to the wall at the top of the theater, a position that Westlake Police Lt. Ray Arcuri said gave Smith a "tactical advantage."
ummm... no... that's called being situationally aware and choosing the best possible vantage point from which to spot signs of a dangerous situation brewing....
I always sit with my back to the wall, closest to the exit if possible... you never ****in sit with your back to the door.... its situational awareness 101...
I want to see who is coming and going... not be alarmed when some ass **** starts lighting up the crowd behind me...
Honestly this guy fits the profile of what I guess would be most people on this board.
Let's spin this a different way. We have a guy that is well prepared when he leaves his house with what sounds like a "go bag", maybe the medical supplies were supplies one would find in a blow out kit? Maybe he was prepared in case of emergency?
So what he has guns at his house and a "plate carrier" (just making a different assumption instead of calling it a bullet proof vest). A good portion of the people on this forum have this stuff from attending classes etc...
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he is a member on this forum and not saying anything because he knows his rights and knows better...
There's something wrong with the officials running the Cleveland area. This isn't the first time some ridiculous garbage has transpired there.
It sounds like the officer has a part-time security gig with theater? At any rate, being off duty I don't believe Smith had a duty to inform the officer he was CCing - That charge is out. However, depending on the type of knives he may be in trouble for having those concealed. OH law doesn't allow for concealing any deadly weapon other than a handgun. If they were folders, the argument could be made that they are not deadly weapons, they are tools. Fixed blades may be harder to argue.
Smith should not have consented to the search. Upon refusing, the manager, not the off-duty officer could ask him to leave.
If you carry a firearm into a private place of business, you can be asked to leave. If you carry a firearm onto a premises with a gunbuster sign, you can be charged with a crime.
The search warrant on his home is 100% dog shit. Pursuing a 'Possessing weapons under disability' charge is vexatious litigation and charging the man just for the sake of charging him. I'd imagine there will be a separate hearing to determine whether or not Smith was, indeed, under disability.
Moose-Knuckle
08-07-12, 21:06
If you carry a firearm onto a premises with a gunbuster sign, you can be charged with a crime.
Depends the state your in, in TX the business must have a sign that meets official criteria for this with certain size text and font with the exact verbiage from the Penal Code. You can walk right past gun buster signs and pay them no mind.
http://www.myconcealedcarrylicense.com/misc/30_06_sign.htm
ChicagoTex
08-07-12, 21:26
Moose-Knuckle, while that's absolutely true here in TX, every other state I've personally traveled to that recognized my TX CHL had laws that said any no-gun sign had the power of law, so I think the verbiage requirement is quite rare outside of, or possibly even exclusive to, TX.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
There's something wrong with the officials running the Cleveland area. This isn't the first time some ridiculous garbage has transpired there.
I'm not sure that the police got this one wrong. Westlake PD has already released that he did NOT have a CCW permit. In addition, the officer asked permission to search the bag, and the dummy gave him permission. I say good riddance just for being so stupid.
Also, he better pray that the blade lengths of his knives do not exceed 2.5" since that is the limit for concealed deadly weapon in Cuyahoga County when I lived there.
From the Ohio Revised Code:
"...the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises."
There is a general format for an 'official' sign but only certain persons/establishments are required to follow that format.
Failure2Stop
08-07-12, 21:41
Didn't have a CC permit.
Done.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I guess I missed that.
Westlake PD has already released that he did NOT have a CCW permit.
Also, he better pray that the blade lengths of his knives do not exceed 2.5" since that is the limit for concealed deadly weapon in Cuyahoga County when I lived there.
Municipal ordnances can be a pain in the ass. There is no regulation on blade length at the State level. However, if the knives are ruled 'deadly weapons', its still illegal to conceal them regardless of blade length.
PA PATRIOT
08-07-12, 21:44
Looks like another nut.
Good catch by the Officer.
Moose-Knuckle
08-07-12, 21:47
Didn't have a CC permit.
Done.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Pretty much.
This is the part that will sink him since each knife carries a separate charge:
Cleveland Municipal Code 627.10 states:
“(a) No person shall knowingly carry, have in his possession or ready at hand any knife having a blade two and one-half inches in length while at or about a public place.
“(b) [definition of public place]
“(c) [exemption for police, agents of government]
“(d) [exemption for public weapon display, show, or competition]
“(e) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this section that the actor was not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the weapon, and that the weapon was kept ready at hand by the actor for defense purposes, while he was engaged in his lawful business or occupation, which business or occupation was of such character or at such a place as to render the actor particularly susceptible to criminal attack, such as would justify a prudent man in having the weapon ready at hand.”
This is the part that will sink him since each knife carries a separate charge:
Cleveland Municipal Code 627.10 states:
“(a) No person shall knowingly carry, have in his possession or ready at hand any knife having a blade two and one-half inches in length while at or about a public place.
“(b) [definition of public place]
“(c) [exemption for police, agents of government]
“(d) [exemption for public weapon display, show, or competition]
“(e) It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this section that the actor was not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the weapon, and that the weapon was kept ready at hand by the actor for defense purposes, while he was engaged in his lawful business or occupation, which business or occupation was of such character or at such a place as to render the actor particularly susceptible to criminal attack, such as would justify a prudent man in having the weapon ready at hand.”
I guess I'll leave my 3" folder pocket knife at home next time I go to Cleveland.. :rolleyes:
He is screwed in not having a CCL and being dumb enough to give consent to search the bag. The manager and the off-duty cop (who is there to serve as extra security) both have the authority to question a person when something doesn't look right. Seems to have been a clean arrest.
That said, unless the subject made statements about planning a mass attack, or something of that nature... there is no possible legal reason for the police to seek, or the judge to grant a search warrant of the subject's home. The article said he refused to speak with police so I'm doubting they had information from him. If they used the Colorado shooting as PC for a search warrant, they need to go back to law school and the police academy.
I'm very interested in seeing the affidavit for the warrant. I expect it will get suppressed... but you can't take back having violated someone's rights and privacy.
Sorry guys, I posted the article from my phone and didn't clarify why. The USA Today article did not cite that this idiot was carrying without a CCW. I automatically assumed that he was legally carrying in a EDC type bag like a Maxpedition Versipack.
That said, if he had a CCW, the stuff he was carrying resembles some of the stuff that people on this forum post as their EDC items. A 9mm Glock, a spare mag or two, and multiple knives is fairly common for our forum members. I don't prefer to carry that many knives or spare mags, but hey, it's a free country, so to speak.
Just this past weekend, I, along with my wife, attended a showing of the Dark Knight rises with similar contents in my pockets. I've long ago decided against carrying any Maxpedition Versipack type go bags in public because many military and LEO know what it is, and it screams gun. We deliberately took a seat in the back of the theater, giving us "a tactical advantage".;)
The main reason I posted the article was that they obtained a search warrant for his house, then publicly released information about him owning multiple guns, thousands of rounds of ammo, and body armor etc... Sorry, it just seemed like a bit of a witch hunt to me. One has to wonder if they would have arrested him even if he did have a CCW. Given the current climate, I understand the heightened alert, but they (the authorities) took this pretty far, trying to criminalize him in the process. Like an idiot, he helped them do this by carrying without a CCW and not knowing the local knife laws.
Sorry guys, I posted the article from my phone and didn't clarify why. The USA Today article did not cite that this idiot was carrying without a CCW. I automatically assumed that he was legally carrying in a EDC type bag like a Maxpedition Versipack.
That said, if he had a CCW, the stuff he was carrying resembles some of the stuff that people on this forum post as their EDC items. A 9mm Glock, a spare mag or two, and multiple knives is fairly common for our forum members. I don't prefer to carry that many knives or spare mags, but hey, it's a free country, so to speak.
Just this past weekend, I, along with my wife, attended a showing of the Dark Knight rises with similar contents in my pockets. I've long ago decided against carrying any Maxpedition Versipack type go bags in public because many military and LEO know what it is, and it screams gun...
Actually, it screams "bomb" to the initiated. I know that we rarely encounter destructive devices in the US, but a couple of trips to Israel and tours to OIF/OEF have made me very leary of people with backpacks in inappropriate and crowded places. Anyone who brings a backpack in a crowded theater has my undivided attention. In fact, I would probably leave, notify the police, and watch another showing that starts a few minutes later.
Actually, it screams "bomb" to the initiated. I know that we rarely encounter destructive devices in the US, but a couple of trips to Israel and tours to OIF/OEF have made me very leary of people with backpacks in inappropriate and crowded places. Anyone who brings a backpack in a crowded theater has my undivided attention. In fact, I would probably leave, notify the police, and watch another showing that starts a few minutes later.
Good point. I never got into carrying those bags around, but I know that when I'm out and about with the family, men carrying bags almost always make me take a hard look at them. There is never a need to draw that kind of attention to oneself.
I keep a Versipack loaded with medical supplies (bandaids, TQ, ibuprofen, etc...) and outdoor gear for short hikes with the family, but I'd never carry one of those to a crowded event because it stands out.
montanadave
08-08-12, 11:14
There's a lot of daylight between what is and what ought to be and what you can do and what you should do.
This yutz walked into a movie theater with a "high capacity" semi-auto, a couple of extra "high capacity" mags, and some knives in a bag a week after some other nut-job shot up a theater showing the same movie.
And no concealed carry permit to boot.
What a maroon!
There's a lot of daylight between what is and what ought to be and what you can do and what you should do.
This yutz walked into a movie theater with a "high capacity" semi-auto, a couple of extra "high capacity" mags, and some knives in a bag a week after some other nut-job shot up a theater showing the same movie.
And no concealed carry permit to boot.
What a maroon!
Absolutely, he was asking for it....but is he just a stupid idiot? Or a potential mass shooter like they're trying to make him out to be? Time will tell...
kaiservontexas
08-08-12, 11:22
I used to carry mine all the time, versipack. Boy would they scratch their heads if they searched me. I had my Leatherman Wave, G2 SureFire, some asprine and what not, a Daily Roman Missal, Bible, a prayer book for men, rosary, the 32oz water bottle, some pray cards, a pocket journal, stuff to charge my iPhone and or laptop, and sometimes a Nintendo DS and any book, if it fit, that I was reading at the time.
Off body carry is not the best method, and I do not walk around with guns in places they are not allowed.
Oh and sometimes I had candy and beef jerky with me in the bag.
Now if I am doing outdoor activities out in the wild . . . then my G17 is tucked in with a few mags, and the contents change to reflect what I am doing.
But I do not see red flags when I see a ruck. It would depend on the person carrying the bag.
As for the person packing heat when he wasn't supposed to . . . well he is paying for that now. Though I think it is crazy to just automatically assume he is some sort of threat to the populace and post the contents of his home for the world to see. Besides there is nothing wrong with knives, firearms, ammo, and the rest. Granted I do not own gas masks, but if the person feels they need one for preparedness or just to collect . . . that is their prerogative.
Actually, it screams "bomb" to the initiated. I know that we rarely encounter destructive devices in the US, but a couple of trips to Israel and tours to OIF/OEF have made me very leary of people with backpacks in inappropriate and crowded places. Anyone who brings a backpack in a crowded theater has my undivided attention. In fact, I would probably leave, notify the police, and watch another showing that starts a few minutes later.
We've had two TATP discoveries in my AOR in the past 2 weeks alone, one more a couple of months ago. WTF are people thinking? :confused:
Another gun carrying man arrested at a Batman movie. This one had a CCW permit. I wonder if there was a sign prohibiting firearms in the theater. Besides, this guy failed to comply with police commands. Full article is copied in the original post.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/08/08/20120808connecticut-man-had-right-carry-gun-movie-lawyer-says.html
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