View Full Version : Do you prefer to buy a factory built gun with a Rail or Without?
Poll time. Kind of interested to see if people prefer to have a rail installed by the factory or buy it without a rail.
C4
I prefer from the factory with a rail. Not a big deal as I can and have done several rail swaps, but I do get some peace of mind (warranty) with a factory install, especially when it involves a proprietary barrel nut.
I like options so I build my guns from scratch. If a factory gun though, my choice of rail might not be from the same manufacturer.
No Rail,
1) Keeps cost down a bit for the initial purchase
2) If I am going to run a rail I want to tailor that rail to the specific mission of that AR
3) Ease of purchase - I dont have to hunt down and wait for a specific rifle with the specific rail I am looking for
I know for me personally, when I first got into AR's, I would have rather had a rail on it. Now that I'm a bit more versed on them, I'd prefer to put my own choice of rail on. I think it's like that for a lot of people new to the platform.
.02
justin_247
08-08-12, 12:26
I would like to have both options. I think I was one of the last people to buy a DD rifle that didn't already come with a rail installed. Last I checked, no DD rifles are available anymore that come with the standard shielded plastic handguards, unless you buy a custom upper from SmartGunner.
Not everybody needs a rail... all it does is add cost and make it more likely that people will buy another rifle.
I would like to have both options. I think I was one of the last people to buy a DD rifle that didn't already come with a rail installed. Last I checked, no DD rifles are available anymore that come with the standard shielded plastic handguards, unless you buy a custom upper from SmartGunner.
Not everybody needs a rail... all it does is add cost and make it more likely that people will buy another rifle.
Agree. I would like to see DD offer some of their rifles without a rail (again).
C4
Factory, its rare I can't locate exactly what I want from someone given the AR world has become Baskin Robbins in options.
SomeOtherGuy
08-08-12, 13:18
I prefer from the factory with a rail. Not a big deal as I can and have done several rail swaps, but I do get some peace of mind (warranty) with a factory install, especially when it involves a proprietary barrel nut.
Exactly the same here. I've installed several rails myself successfully, but have the most confidence in professional assembly.
Doc Safari
08-08-12, 13:23
I think I was one of the last people to buy a DD rifle that didn't already come with a rail installed.
You and me both. I almost wish I hadn't sold my DD to get a second BCM just for that reason.
Not everybody needs a rail... .
I have actually gone back to skinny CAR handguards on my M4. I use a Midwest Industries tactical light mount on the front sight for my light and my sling. Works for me. A railed handguard would be a reason not to buy a rifle now.
I prefer to install my own....course I also prefer to build my own
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
I'd rather buy a factory upper with the rail already installed, but...
I've never found an upper the way I wanted it.
All I want is a M4A1 RIS II or 12" LaRue on a 14.5" lightweight or light/medium profile barrel.
I'm collecting parts right now, ADCO is gonna put 'em all together for me.
I voted 'yes' but for me the determining factor is which rail? If its a 2 piece drop in then probably not.
Working in retail i notice rails grab most customers attention over non-railed.
Interesting poll numbers. Thanks to everyone that has responded.
For me, I do not like buying a rail with a gun. The main reason is that I have to pay an additional 11% FET on it. If I buy the gun and then later buy the rail, I will save (at least) 11% on its cost.
C4
Doc Safari
08-08-12, 14:06
For me, I do not like buying a rail with a gun. The main reason is that I have to pay an additional 11% FET on it.
Really? Why is that?
gatorfan605
08-08-12, 14:07
No rail for me. I can add one at a later date if necessary. Otherwise I'm really digging the MOE handguards at the moment. They allow the flexibility of mounting lights, slings, and foregrips, but keep the weight down. IMO the best place to start with AR handguards.
Really? Why is that?
When a manufacturer pays FET, it is on the TOTAL cost of the weapon. So if there is a rail on there, you have to pay FET on it (along with that special stock, sights, etc).
This is why we had BCM build us these: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C
Notice the lack of stock, fancy grip, sights, handguards, etc? That helps keep the cost down and then the buyer can choose the components they want (and avoid the 11% FET on the accessories).
C4
Hey Grant - should of had the "dont care" option as well. I know I bought some ass-backwards rifles for some idea I wanted to put into place.
And that idea of the bare bones with BCM is awesome.
JBecker 72
08-08-12, 14:29
For me I prefer to buy one without as there are so many choices and I find most rifles don't come configured the way I want.
No Rail,
1) Keeps cost down a bit for the initial purchase
3) Ease of purchase - I dont have to hunt down and wait for a specific rifle with the specific rail I am looking for
Same thoughts here.
-Jax
Yes, if there's various configuration/rail options.
If not, then no.
Probably needed some other options on the poll.
If the rifle I wanted to buy had the exact rail I wanted on it, I'd buy it. Then I'd be checking the "yes" rail option.
If I can't find the rail I want, then of course I would want the rifle without one. Then I would check the "no" rail option.
i chose no rail and made it dead even now haha. Since my rail of choice is the urx 3.1, no one releases builds with that rail except kac themselves.
When a manufacturer pays FET, it is on the TOTAL cost of the weapon. So if there is a rail on there, you have to pay FET on it (along with that special stock, sights, etc).
This is why we had BCM build us these: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C
Notice the lack of stock, fancy grip, sights, handguards, etc? That helps keep the cost down and then the buyer can choose the components they want (and avoid the 11% FET on the accessories).
C4
So if you buy a separate upper and lower is this still the case?
justin_247
08-08-12, 15:37
I have actually gone back to skinny CAR handguards on my M4. I use a Midwest Industries tactical light mount on the front sight for my light and my sling. Works for me. A railed handguard would be a reason not to buy a rifle now.
Same here... With my XV, I installed a KAC RAS, however I think I'm just going to go back to the standard handguards or just run the rail system by itself.
My other rifle with a factory-installed RIS II, on the other hand, is sweet... but it offers far more than the KAC RAS offers over the standard plastic handguards. :)
mkmckinley
08-08-12, 15:43
I would definately like the upper to come with the rail already installed assuming that the builder is competent and that the configuration I want is available. In Grant's case I don't think either of those considerations would be in question.
I would like a free float tube made of carbon fiber. Aluminum gets too hot and why should I have to wear a chicken mitt just to shoot? A couple of quick release cups for a sling and a mount for a front sight & 12 o'clock light would be good enough for me. Keep it durable and as light as practical and make it a shape that fits the human hand. That's what I'd like as a factory installed option
Oh wow, pretty even split so far...
Purely out of convenience, i would prefer my weapon+rail be factory installed... That is, if my company of choice offered uppers or complete weapons with my rail of choice. If not, I'll take one without.
Army Chief
08-08-12, 18:40
Did not vote, as it depends entirely upon the rail(s) available. If afforded some flexibility to opt for a rail system of choice, the question would rate an easy "yes" from me.
AC
I voted no.
I knew about the excise tax on firearms and do my best to avoid that. Also, I enjoy choosing my own, that's part of the beauty of the platform that we all obsess over on this site.
I would prefer a factory built gun that comes with the rail for the convenience and what is normally a lower package price. If the rail I want is not offered by a top tier gun manufacturer I would not hesitate to buy the rail separately and install it myself.
I always check dealers who carry uppers and complete rifles with a variety of pre-installed rails before I purchase.
So if you buy a separate upper and lower is this still the case?
No FET is collected on uppers and lowers.
C4
Probably needed some other options on the poll.
If the rifle I wanted to buy had the exact rail I wanted on it, I'd buy it. Then I'd be checking the "yes" rail option.
If I can't find the rail I want, then of course I would want the rifle without one. Then I would check the "no" rail option.
For the sake of poll, the only rail option is a DD 12" Lite Rail.
C4
I prefer to choose the rail that I want installed on the rifle.
Like some others my initial purchases were with rails. As I shot more and became familiar with what was necessary over what I thought I needed, I went without, kept the cost down and bought what I found comfortable. Both my rifles have moe rifle length handguards. Light, optic, good to go for a battle rifle.
Moose-Knuckle
08-08-12, 19:46
Depends . . .
My last build I purchased a DD complete lower from you (:secret:) and then a complete factory DDV5LW upper from Aim's. My two halves came together for just a little over $1100. Had I purchased the rifle out right I would have been out $300-$500 more. The fact that DD puts rails on their uppers/rifles is just icing on the cake.
Now if I wanted to go the KISS route like I did with my BCM middy, then no.
Awesome1228
08-08-12, 19:49
My first AR had a rail when I got it. Im happy that it did, because it allowed me to easily experiment with attachments and placement. Now that I know what I want on it (light and sling mount) and where I want them, a rail is pointless for me, and simply an additional cost that I dont need. There are some cool options out there but thats just it-cool but not useful for me.
StrikerFired
08-08-12, 21:17
On my first AR I put a rail on it and all of the stuff I "needed" as well. On my second AR I went with the Troy and only added the rail sections on the stuff I really USED!! Much lighter (for me) and I feel like I run the gun better...
No FET is collected on uppers and lowers.
C4
Thank you for the follow-up. That's good to know.
For the sake of poll, the only rail option is a DD 12" Lite Rail.
C4
Because of this I voted no.
Yes,given it's what i want optionwise ofcourse. Plus you can't beat a factory installed pinned low pro gasblock. Gives me some peace of mind IMHO.
I voted without, but I didnt know it was the DD rail. I see a lot of factory guns with Samson rails and Troy rails, neither of which I like. In that case, I'd prefer without. I actually wish companies would release uppers/rifles with a lo-pro gas block, and no handgaurds or rail. A rail ready upper.
Yes, rail.
After installing a rail of various sorts on my last half dozen ARs I would now have prefered at least the factory option of a rail. The only problem would be what rail. As much as I love the 6920, I still am not completely in love with the 6940's rail. Acutally, at this time, I would probably opt for the 6920 Socom with KAC rail over the 6940.
JBecker 72
08-08-12, 23:20
If more rifles came with Centurion or KAC rails I would change my answer to yes.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
I actually wish companies would release uppers/rifles with a lo-pro gas block, and no handgaurds or rail. A rail ready upper.
This still limits you to only a handful of rails due to the stock barrel nut.
friendlyfireisnt
08-08-12, 23:25
I voted without, but I didnt know it was the DD rail. I see a lot of factory guns with Samson rails and Troy rails, neither of which I like. In that case, I'd prefer without. I actually wish companies would release uppers/rifles with a lo-pro gas block, and no handgaurds or rail. A rail ready upper.
+1 to that.
I recently decided to buy another upper, and while I usually buy from BCM, this time around I found a Rainier upper that had everything I wanted to try out already installed, and the price was right.
The fact that the rail was factory installed played a part in my decision, along with price and their reputation.
I never wound up buying all of the AR tools, nor can I say I have ever been impressed by local gunsmith's work so... I like my guns with a rail.
I prefer DD guns since they have so many rail/fsb/barrel systems configs. I also think it is cheaper to buy the pre-config'd gun with a rail than buying a base gun and upgrading later.
One day when I get some tools though, I may change my tune.
I'm also in the "Can't find a complete spec'd the way I want" crowd. Either way it will have a rail of some sort.
I'd rather buy the components I want and assemble.
My first and only was a Centurion barrel and 12" C4 with Vltor MUR.
My second is still in the toss up stage between another middy, or a rifle for a DMR. First I need to find a stripped lower then go from there.
Regardless of what I get, no FSP. I want the pinned low pro gas block on the barrel.
Guinnessman
08-09-12, 05:49
I voted yes because I like the option of chosing between a factory handguard or custom rail system.
The DD M4V1 was the first factory rifle I bought that had a factory rail. It was a great purchase and I have loved the set up from day one.
I like the fact that BCM offers multiple rail systems with their uppers so you can pick and chose your options.
I voted for with rail, even though I just completed my first ever rail installation 1 week ago. I had purchased a BCM 16" upper and a Centurion Arms C4 12" FSP rail. I don't have a ton of tools, but I successfully installed the rail without removing the FSB. I learned alot from this but would have preffered purchasing an upper with either this rail or a Daniel Defense rail installed. At the time of purchase every
rail/upper setup I would have wanted was out of stock.
Hell, I would prefer a good gun to come without the barrel installed just to be faster for me to put it together how I want it.
For the sake of poll, the only rail option is a DD 12" Lite Rail.
C4
Based on that criteria I want to change my answer from a "yes" to a "no" please.
If I can get a factory built gun, with factory support/warranty, I'm amiable to paying the extra 11% to that. Realistically, the cost of the gun is a very low when looking at total ownership costs.
With that said, the only 2 rails I'm really interested in are the DD Omega 12.0 FSP and the KAC URX 3.1; for what I want an AR15 to do, those two rails cover all facets.
Based on some comments in this thread, I have another poll for you guys to comment on: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=110640
C4
I vote with a rail, but it has to be a good one. Like a SR15 with the URX 3.1, or a Daniel defense with a RIS II.
Guns with a 7" or 9" rail do not interest me. Nor do guns with Non free float rails.
Rails are a personal choice and preferences change with the wind. The option in your other poll would certainly be the better choice for a dealer like yourself. More options for the consumer and less complaints that you didn't offer the favorite rail of the month.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I actually wish companies would release uppers/rifles with a lo-pro gas block, and no handgaurds or rail. A rail ready upper.I like this answer, but having said so, one of my M4s, a DD, came with an outstanding Omega X rail from the factory. The proprietary barrel nut irks me, but I've debarreled/rebarreled my guns at least a couple times each; it's a matter of having the added wrench on hand.
I currently run Troy/VTAC Alpha rails on stock barrel nuts on all my M4s and love 'em. Study, slim, light and handsome.
When a manufacturer pays FET, it is on the TOTAL cost of the weapon. So if there is a rail on there, you have to pay FET on it (along with that special stock, sights, etc).
This is why we had BCM build us these: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-C
Notice the lack of stock, fancy grip, sights, handguards, etc? That helps keep the cost down and then the buyer can choose the components they want (and avoid the 11% FET on the accessories).
C4
Grant, do you have anymore of these coming?
No Rail,
1) Keeps cost down a bit for the initial purchase
2) If I am going to run a rail I want to tailor that rail to the specific mission of that AR
3) Ease of purchase - I dont have to hunt down and wait for a specific rifle with the specific rail I am looking for
My thoughts exactly! I'm more than likely swap out a factory rail before long anyways lol
No rail.
Personal preference. I like to customize to my own needs.
Grant, do you have anymore of these coming?
Always on order.
C4
I voted without, but I didnt know it was the DD rail. I see a lot of factory guns with Samson rails and Troy rails, neither of which I like. In that case, I'd prefer without. I actually wish companies would release uppers/rifles with a lo-pro gas block, and no handgaurds or rail. A rail ready upper.
Looking at picking up/ building my fist AR. Looking for an upper/complete AR and pined lo profile gas block has me looking at railed rifles.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
patriot_man
08-10-12, 03:48
No rails installed, unless the rail I want is pre-installed on an upper in the exact configuration I want which is very unlikely. So all in all I tend to buy no rail guns and cater them to my needs. An example would be my latest 6920 I bought.
Pistol Shooter
08-10-12, 16:20
I voted rail because I've been very pleased with my Colt 6940's. :)
I prefer a smooth hand-guard with add on rails. I would prefer a gun that came form the factory with one I wanted, but I ended up putting one on.
I would prefer to buy a rifle with a free floated hand guard that has the ability to attach rails where I want. Most of the major players are making a free float hand guard with the single continuous top rail with the capability of add on rails.
DD
PRI
Troy, VTAC, TRX,
Noveske
Geissele
JP Enterprises
Berserkr556
08-11-12, 17:43
I voted no rail because it's cheaper for a poorboy like myself to buy an BCM upper and add the rail of my choice later. Most of the time a BCM upper with rail already installed is out of stock so it's easier to buy the upper without a rail.
midSCarolina
08-11-12, 18:34
I personally prefer to buy the rifle without the rail. Although it does save you money to buy it with it already on there, I am kinda picky when it comes to my rails. I ran a MI gen 2 drop in for awhile and the rail felt good, but the play in it started bothering me pretty quickly. I have really fallen in love with the feel and look of the Daniel Defense RIS II MK18 and there just aren't many rifle choices with this rail. I do also like KAC's rail so I will buy a KAC with the rail already on it.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.