View Full Version : Interest in a factory built AR with a pinned GB?
Another poll for you guys. Would you be interested in a factory built AR with a pinned low profile GB (no rails or HG's)? This would allow you to run almost ANY rail you so chose.
Thanks,
C4
Doesn't even need to be low-profile, I have a belt sander and alumiblack...
SomeOtherGuy
08-09-12, 12:27
Yes, and if it has a properly installed GI barrel nut (without the delta ring assembly) then there are many good rail options that the buyer can install themselves very, very easily.
Doesn't even need to be low-profile, I have a belt sander and alumiblack...
LOL, understand. Not everyone is as skilled as you with a belt sander though. :dirol:
C4
Yes, and if it has a properly installed GI barrel nut (without the delta ring assembly) then there are many good rail options that the buyer can install themselves very, very easily.
Some rails do use the delta Ring and since they are easy to either cut off or remove, would most likely come with those parts I think.
C4
I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Definitely
justin_247
08-09-12, 12:37
Definitely interested.
Bluedreaux
08-09-12, 13:43
So Grant, what are you going to be offering soon?
So Grant, what are you going to be offering soon?
Nothing yet, but am doing some research to figure out if what I believe is true.
Held truths by Me:
1. People don't want to pay any more FET than they have too.
2. The rail market is a fickle one with people changing their opinions about what is good and what isn't monthly.
3. Not everyone needs a rail.
4. Not everyone can afford a rail.
5. No two people like the same rail.
6. A complete rifle with a pinned GB gives the consumer tons of options (which they like).
C4
SpankMonkey
08-09-12, 14:06
Yes.. looking for one now with no luck.
gunfighter48
08-09-12, 14:21
Misread the original post. Yes I would by a rifle with no handguards. I always take off the stock ones and replace them with my favorite rails anyway.
This poll came up right as I begin looking for an upper to go on a lower I just put together.
A pinned low profile gas block from the factory would be exactly what I'm looking for, since I'm interested in a Troy Alpha rail and I don't want to have to cut a FSB if I don't have to.
Doesn't the SR15 come with a low pro GB that is attached only with set screws?
Though no doubt in the minority, I had to vote no since I'm still a fan of the standard fixed FSB which does so much so well, even as a base for the Mossie Midnight Mount. And as mentioned before if you change your mind it can be cut down into an excellent lo-pro gas block.
ETA:
I do see such a rifle as a great choice for flexibility.
Nothing yet, but am doing some research to figure out if what I believe is true.
Held truths by Me:
1. People don't want to pay any more FET than they have too.
2. The rail market is a fickle one with people changing their opinions about what is good and what isn't monthly.
3. Not everyone needs a rail.
4. Not everyone can afford a rail.
5. No two people like the same rail.
6. A complete rifle with a pinned GB gives the consumer tons of options (which they like).
C4
True on all accounts!
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Sounds about perfect. I was thinking this same thought when i was looking at your BCM stripped mid length rifle today wondering if that would be an option in order to allow longer than a 9' rail.
I voted no, only because I would prefer a shaved gas block and am handy with a dremmel.
The way I purchased things, this would have made the most sense if I bought a rifle complete.
I have been looking for that very setup.
Yes. Assuming it is from people who can put together something well.
Grant I think this would be an excellent idea and should sell very quick. People want to save as much as possible on builds and this will help.
I voted yes.
I like Daniel Defense barrels because they'll sell 'em with a pinned gas block.
I voted yes.
I like Daniel Defense barrels because they'll sell 'em with a pinned gas block.
I agree. I went with noveske because they have pinned gas blocks as well. It was just a bitch finding a noveske forged upper to go with it.
I dont know if it would make sense from a business standpoint but it would be great if you offered them with barrel nut options as well.
Mate I think this would be an excellent idea and should sell very quick. People want to save as much as possible on builds and this will help.
Youre welcome.
;)
When I build a rifle, I dimple the barrel where the gas block screws sit, rock set the gas block screws and then stake the gas block screws. This is a lot of work and seems to be 100% but NOTHING would give more piece of mind than a pinned gas block!
Yes, an upper sans hanguards/rail would be a good idea. Would this be an upper with the pins loosely installed in the gasblock? Would a complete FSB be available as an option for those who want it?
A word about FET- The moneys collected from the FET on firearms goes to pay for the development and support of public ranges and other shooting related support. Ranges supported by FET monies are much more affordable to shoot at.
How much money is really saved? I haven't done the math myself, but when someone asks about building or assembling an AR, one typical response is to buy a complete rifle as it costs just as much to build as it is to buy a complete rifle
I voted yes even though I'm not in the market for anything for the time being but it would have been easier as a new buyer.
Yes, an upper sans hanguards/rail would be a good idea. Would this be an upper with the pins loosely installed in the gasblock? Would a complete FSB be available as an option for those who want it?
A word about FET- The moneys collected from the FET on firearms goes to pay for the development and support of public ranges and other shooting related support. Ranges supported by FET monies are much more affordable to shoot at.
How much money is really saved? I haven't done the math myself, but when someone asks about building or assembling an AR, one typical response is to buy a complete rifle as it costs just as much to build as it is to buy a complete rifle
An AR with just a FSB has already been done and we offer them on our BCM page.
The money saved really depends on what components are attached to the core rifle. So if you have a $300 dollar rail, $150 in BUIS's, $90 dollar stock, $25 dollar grip and a $100 MB, you are paying an additional $73 dollars!
C4
Would you sell/install rails for customers when they order these?
Would you sell/install rails for customers when they order these?
Yes and would have a wide range of rail options (with no install fees). So you would see DD, Noveske, Centurion, Wilson Combat, etc as options.
C4
In that case I think this is the way to go, a factory installed rail on a KAC or DD is cool.
But being able to pick the quality rail of your choice is excellent.
Singlestack Wonder
08-10-12, 09:19
Grant:
The only problem is that some folks use DD RIS II or Lite rails which would require the barrel nut and rear bolt up ring from DD ( of course this would be true for a number of rail suppliers). While the DD barrel nuts are available separately, the rear bolt up rings are not. For rails that use the standard barrel nut, it's a great idea.
Grant:
The only problem is that some folks use DD RIS II or Lite rails which would require the barrel nut and rear bolt up ring from DD ( of course this would be true for a number of rail suppliers). While the DD barrel nuts are available separately, the rear bolt up rings are not. For rails that use the standard barrel nut, it's a great idea.
The USGI barrel nut is just a place holder. If you want to use a DD LR (for instance), you simply remove the GB, remove the USGI barrel nut and install the new barrel nut and re-install the GB (or we can do it if you buy the rail from us).
C4
Yes and would have a wide range of rail options (with no install fees). So you would see DD, Noveske, Centurion, Wilson Combat, etc as options.
C4
Wow Grant, that's awesome. Thanks.
friendlyfireisnt
08-10-12, 11:37
Yes please!
I don't always want to buy a rail when i purchase an upper. I might not always have the cash on hand to buy both at the same time. Or the specific rail might not be available from that vendor.
MidwestRookie
08-10-12, 12:00
Welp Grant, doesn't look like there's much interest in this kind of thing..:blink:
/sarcasm
I'd love to separate the cost of an upper and rail system without having to remove a stupid FSB to install it and a low pro GB...
IMO, as much as I like them and love my rifle, BCM pisses me off for not offering their plain uppers with something other than a god awful FSB.
Yes and would have a wide range of rail options (with no install fees). So you would see DD, Noveske, Centurion, Wilson Combat, etc as options.
C4
I'm all in if you include kac rails
Another poll for you guys. Would you be interested in a factory built AR with a pinned low profile GB (no rails or HG's)? This would allow you to run almost ANY rail you so chose.
C4
Like this, but pinned? I think it would sell ok for you, but not in a larger context. While this board has more weapon savy people, in general, most people would skip over it (IMO) and look at a "complete" carbine.
Honestly Grant, the same thing keeping people buying the cheapest bottom feeder carbine they can will go into play here. People don't know what they don't know.
The idea is solid, but it would take hand holding to come to fruition.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STKL8125-A-1200-Stick.jpg
patriot_man
08-13-12, 21:39
I like :D
Does this mean you'll have a large selection of different rails and the customer can choose which they want and you'll install them before shipping?
I have definitely been considering getting a BCM this way or buying a Noveske Basic and pulling the handguards. I at some point want to build a middie with a Centurion rail.
Does this mean you'll have a large selection of different rails and the customer can choose which they want and you'll install them before shipping?
That would be our goal.
C4
Made from a good company, I'd be happy to buy one if I could save a few bucks on the parts I wouldn't want or would otherwise replace.
civilsnake
08-14-12, 09:36
I would absolutely be in the market for such a thing. Because it doesn't exist, I've had to buy a separate DD barrel w/ pinned LPGB and all of the other parts. If you had such a configuration ready to go I would have taken that route.
Zero Signal
08-14-12, 09:48
I also think its a great idea..
As I am in the market for an upper in the not so distant future
. I at some point want to build a middie with a Centurion rail.
BCM middy with CA rail. :D
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%207/STKL9593-1200-Stick.jpg
Grant, when will you start doing this?
civilsnake
08-14-12, 12:20
BCM middy with CA rail. :D
Is that directly from BCM? If so, is the GB pinned or screwed?
I ask because in recent correspondence with BCM they told me any of their low-profile gbs would be dimpled/set screwed/red loctited. Hence, I got a DD barrel.
Grant, when will you start doing this?
Well, I first have to talk a company into WANTING to do it. The numbers in this thread certainly do that for me.
C4
Is that directly from BCM? If so, is the GB pinned or screwed?
I ask because in recent correspondence with BCM they told me any of their low-profile gbs would be dimpled/set screwed/red loctited. Hence, I got a DD barrel.
Just so you know, there is ZERO reason to pin a GB IF it is covered by a rail.
NEVER have I or BCM had one come loose/off in this configuration.
C4
One did. I then had it pinned.
One did. I then had it pinned.
It probably wasn't installed properly then OR something was out of spec.
I have installed GB with NOTHING but green loctite (no screws) and couldn't get the damn thing off. :mad:
C4
Red was used initially. Then green when it loosened up. No problems after, I just wanted piece of mine so I had ADCO pin it. Looking forward to you offering this option Grant. Hope to get a new upper in a few months from you.
Red was used initially. Then green when it loosened up. No problems after, I just wanted piece of mine so I had ADCO pin it. Looking forward to you offering this option Grant. Hope to get a new upper in a few months from you.
If I remember correctly, your GB was a Clamp on model. Strange as it sounds, I have had more issues with those than the standard set screw model (don't use them any more). With the clamp GB's, if the width of the barrel is slightly undersized, I don't believe that the clamp can get its "lock" on it and no amount of tightening (like in your case) is ever going to keep it there.
C4
civilsnake
08-14-12, 12:45
NEVER have I or BCM had one come loose/off in this configuration.
C4
I have installed GB with NOTHING but green loctite (no screws) and couldn't get the damn thing off. :mad:
C4
That's actually the reason I want a pinned block; I CAN take it off if necessary. I prefer the least amount of adhesive possible.
Ah ha! Gotcha. Makes sense. Thanks man!
If I remember correctly, your GB was a Clamp on model. Strange as it sounds, I have had more issues with those than the standard set screw model (don't use them any more). With the clamp GB's if the width of the barrell is slightly undersixed, I don't believe that the clamp can get its "lock" on it and no amount of tightening (like in your case) is ever going to keep it there.
C4
That's actually the reason I want a pinned block; I CAN take it off if necessary. I prefer the least amount of adhesive possible.
If you mess with pinned GB's enough, you WILL find some that you won't be able to get the pin out (has happened many times to me).
Also keep in mind that pinned GB typically have a Set Screw installed as well (which will be loctited on).
C4
Btw, will these all be BCM or are you offering this on DD and others as well?
Btw, will these all be BCM or are you offering this on DD and others as well?
No idea for sure.
C4
civilsnake
08-14-12, 13:25
If you mess with pinned GB's enough, you WILL find some that you won't be able to get the pin out (has happened many times to me).
Also keep in mind that pinned GB typically have a Set Screw installed as well (which will be loctited on).
C4
The nice thing about the DD barrels (or at least the one I have) is that the gas block come loosely pinned because you'll need to get it off for your barrel nut. In the case of the one I picked up, there is no set screw.
Are there other manufacturers that offer this configuration?
Is this offering/service any different than what is being done at SmartGunner (http://www.smartgunner.com/DanielDefenseLiteURG.aspx) with Daniel Defense uppers?
The nice thing about the DD barrels (or at least the one I have) is that the gas block come loosely pinned because you'll need to get it off for your barrel nut. In the case of the one I picked up, there is no set screw.
Are there other manufacturers that offer this configuration?
Just Noveske I think.
C4
Is this offering/service any different than what is being done at SmartGunner (http://www.smartgunner.com/DanielDefenseLiteURG.aspx) with Daniel Defense uppers?
Those are JUST uppers. We are talking about complete weapons.
We are also talking about offering OTHER rail options that what you see listed there.
C4
Grant if I'm understanding your posts correctly, you're basically talking about allowing people to "spec out" a rifle with a pinned low-pro gas block and a wide selection of handguards from various manufacturers. Is this accurate?
Grant if I'm understanding your posts correctly, you're basically talking about allowing people to "spec out" a rifle with a pinned low-pro gas block and a wide selection of handguards from various manufacturers. Is this accurate?
Very accurate.
C4
BCM middy with CA rail. :D
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%207/STKL9593-1200-Stick.jpg
Thanks Stickman!
My thoughts are exactly the same except I would go with the BCM Mod1 grip, AAC Blackout, Troy fixed front and a chopped carry handle in the rear;)
Very accurate.
C4
Thanks for clearing that up for me. That would be a VERY appealing option if it was available the next time I'm in the market for a rifle.
Well it appears that the good folks at DD have deiced to offer GB pinned uppers for us! We are going over pricing now. After this is worked out, we will look at rifles.
Now the question has come up, Chrome Lined barrels or Salt Bath Nitride barrels???
I am thinking of offering them both.
C4
SomeOtherGuy
08-16-12, 09:40
Well it appears that the good folks at DD have deiced to offer GB pinned uppers for us! We are going over pricing now. After this is worked out, we will look at rifles.
That's great news!
Now the question has come up, Chrome Lined barrels or Salt Bath Nitride barrels???
I think it probably makes business sense for you to offer both, but I would be much more interested in nitride-treated barrels.
OK, So when can I get one???????:D
Thanks Stickman!
My thoughts are exactly the same except I would go with the BCM Mod1 grip, AAC Blackout, Troy fixed front and a chopped carry handle in the rear;)
Someone still uses fixed sights...? ;)
Someone still uses fixed sights...? ;)
Until someone makes a good folder..... Kind of an oxymoron? Good Folder? :p
Well it appears that the good folks at DD have deiced to offer GB pinned uppers for us! We are going over pricing now. After this is worked out, we will look at rifles.
Now the question has come up, Chrome Lined barrels or Salt Bath Nitride barrels???
I am thinking of offering them both.
C4
These are now in! Will do an update with pics shortly!
Uppers come complete with DD BCG, and pinned LP GB.
C4
Grant, any idea if you will be offering this service with any of the BCM Stainless Steel barreled uppers? I've been looking into building an SPR/REECE of some sort and would love to choose my own rail or have one other than the ones offered on BCM's site pre-installed.
Who knows...Maybe a G&R Tactical BCM Stainless SPR with Geissele rail and pinned gas block? :D
Can't wait to hear all the details!
Oh snap. This is exactly what I have been waiting for.
I hit the wrong one (stupid phone) yes I would be interested.
I'm looking forward to more info & the promised pictures as well!
As am I. The most difficult part is not emailing Grant, when all of my questions will likely be answered once he pops them up on the site.
Grant. Any chance of getting uppers configured like this as well?
jerrysimons
04-26-13, 01:57
I have been thinking of a BCM lightweight middy with a Fortis rail but was annoyed that I would have to spend extra on a railed upper that has a standard barrel nut, swap out the fsb for a lopro, or shave the fsb. None of which is as optimal as buying a bare lopro upper.
I just got a BCM upper from you, Grant. While it is superb, I would've waited for the DD if it would have come prepped for a low profile tube handguard. I know the quality will also be excellent, and it would have saved some time and effort.
Update with pics: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1627699#post1627699
C4
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