View Full Version : 1 Year Later: Spikes Elite CHF Upper w NiBo bcg?
ViennaGambit
08-09-12, 14:56
Been about a year since Aim has been selling the Spikes Tactical Elite upper with the cold hammer forgers FN barrels and nickle boron bcgs and optimum barrel profile... The 16" middies are back in stock for $630 shipped which seems like an amazing value for what you get... [Please forget I ever mentioned this part: I actually just bought one over a BCM standard 16" upper as the price/value was just too good for me to pass up.]
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5435&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+Elite+CHF+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=301&search=Spikes
Haven't really seen too much online as far as reviews and how people have been liking them so... A year later - what are the general opinions?
Thanks,
-VG
TacticalSledgehammer
08-09-12, 19:26
I can only speak for the NiB BCG. I've had about 2k rounds (not much for most of you) shot with mine and it's been flawless. It cycles pretty smooth too in my LMT upper.
Be prepared to get your ass ripped for having spike's and BCM listed in the same thread. I think you'll be happy with your purchase.
sinlessorrow
08-09-12, 19:39
I will never ever own anything spikes. If my spike lower wasnt a SBR I would chop it up and mail it to them.
Tom is a total douche nugget who calls out individuals and other manuf. only to be proven wrong.
He once called out PSA saying they were lying about HPT .300blk and 6.8 only for PSA to post pics of proof rounds in both calibers.
Not to mention their spider roll mark is really a double dong roll mark.
justin_247
08-09-12, 21:08
Good upper! Inspect it, and then shoot the heck out of it and let us know how it goes. It's always good to have additional info.
I don't think being around for a year means anything. The mullet has been around since the fifties, that doesn't make it a good idea.
Lot's of shiny things, read fancy 'tactical elite' type names (hasn't worked for RRA either) and coatings doesn't automatically make it a 'good' value, let along a 'better' value than a well known, proven, and highly respected manufacturer such as BCM.
Just my opinion, and experience.
ViennaGambit
08-09-12, 22:28
Woof. I had read that this place was pretty anti-Spikes :blink:
I understand that a lot of people don't like the way the guy does business, but I am just asking opinions about a specific product, not the man behind it.
Have you heard of any functional issues with this model? Has the QC been shitty? I figure after a year of it being available opinions would have been formed.
Can you really deny that a cold hammer forged barrel made by FN matched with a barrel profile that seems inspired by Noveske for less money than a standard BCM upper isn't a decent value and good offering for someone who doesn't have the luxury of owning 2 or 3 rifles?
I'm not dumping on BCM because I cannot deny the quality and reputation, but sheesh.
@ StraitR - its not the bcg that I think is the value here, its the FN barrel. And give me a break - ARs are "tactical" by nature. How many of us will bring ours to combat? Get a lever gun if you want to avoid the tactical stigma.
Thanks for the opinions.
sinlessorrow
08-09-12, 22:38
Woof. I had read that this place was pretty anti-Spikes :blink:
I understand that a lot of people don't like the way the guy does business, but I am just asking opinions about a specific product, not the man behind it.
Have you heard of any functional issues with this model? Has the QC been shitty? I figure after a year of it being available opinions would have been formed.
Can you really deny that a cold hammer forged barrel made by FN matched with a barrel profile that seems inspired by Noveske for less money than a standard BCM upper isn't a decent value and good offering for someone who doesn't have the luxury of owning 2 or 3 rifles?
I'm not dumping on BCM because I cannot deny the quality and reputation, but sheesh.
@ StraitR - its not the bcg that I think is the value here, its the FN barrel. And give me a break - ARs are "tactical" by nature. How many of us will bring ours to combat? Get a lever gun if you want to avoid the tactical stigma.
Thanks for the opinions.
I've personally never known anyone who has run their spikes hard. everyone I have read about having a spikes seems to think 100 flawless rounds means the gun is good, my spikes lower has held up but then again a lower is a lower.
I've got a Spikes 16" mid length. I think it was called the LE version or some shit.
I've only burned about 1500 rounds through it. After the first couple hundred rounds the gas key came loose. Plenty here would've fixed in themselves..... I contacted them and the shipped me out a new BCG with no questions asked. OK, fair enough. No probs sense.
This last winter I ordered a LPK from them. It was missing a few parts while there was double of other parts (I don't remember specifically which parts). So I e-mailed them and they shipped out what I.needed. OK, now I'm annoyed.
Then in the last few months I've noticed their adds in the gun rags feature some smokin' hot broad holding one of there rifles. Very reminiscent of the EEA (Eastern European Arms) adds. Double Cock roll marks, owner making an ass out of himself, yada yada.... but when I saw those cheesy hot chick adds I.decided I would be selling my Spikes. Only shit products need the allure of pussy to sell a product.
justin_247
08-09-12, 23:55
I've personally never known anyone who has run their spikes hard. everyone I have read about having a spikes seems to think 100 flawless rounds means the gun is good, my spikes lower has held up but then again a lower is a lower.
You've apparently never read Andrew at the Vuurwapen blog - he runs the crap out of his and shoots more than probably most on this site.
Nightvisionary
08-10-12, 03:15
Spikes Tactical puts out an excellent product for a good price. When looking to purchase a product I look at first hand user reviews, specs, customer support reputation, then price.
Woof. I had read that this place was pretty anti-Spikes :blink:
I understand that a lot of people don't like the way the guy does business, but I am just asking opinions about a specific product, not the man behind it.
Have you heard of any functional issues with this model? Has the QC been shitty? I figure after a year of it being available opinions would have been formed.
Can you really deny that a cold hammer forged barrel made by FN matched with a barrel profile that seems inspired by Noveske for less money than a standard BCM upper isn't a decent value and good offering for someone who doesn't have the luxury of owning 2 or 3 rifles?
I'm not dumping on BCM because I cannot deny the quality and reputation, but sheesh.
@ StraitR - its not the bcg that I think is the value here, its the FN barrel. And give me a break - ARs are "tactical" by nature. How many of us will bring ours to combat? Get a lever gun if you want to avoid the tactical stigma.
Thanks for the opinions.
You made a purchase, then came here for affirmation and are not getting it. These threads are always the same, the OP doesn't hear what they want and 'just as good as' arguments ensue. Look at my post count, I read 99% of the time, but even I find this tiring enough to say so. Yes, FN barrels are quality. YOU compared it to BCM, so I commented on the obvious differences in track record and reputation.
I didn't say anything about avoiding the 'tactical' stigmata, I made reference to companies marketing their wares as something better than they are through the use of cool guy names.
Nobody said the upper was bad, but you compared it to one of the most respected builders in the business. Off the top of my head, the savings over the BCM upper you compared it to should be right around $100. Congrats, I truly hope it's everything you want it to be. Go shoot it, and have fun.
While not the complete built upper from AIM, my upper I built using a Spike's 16" mid-length 'optimum' profile barrel, Spikes BCG, Spikes Gas tube, and a BCM Stripped upper has been flawless. Not a single malfunction in close to 4,000 rounds since March when it was built. I've fed it just about everything (XM193, XM855, PMI Bronze, Wolf, Tula, Silver Bear, and lots of reloads) and it doesn't have a problem. I've ran it hard and dirty and it just keeps on going. Accuracy is excellent. The one time I put a magnified optic on the upper just to see what kind of groups I could get, I shot a .6" goup at 100 using my 62g reloads. That's plenty good enough for a carbine that has a 4 MOA Comp M2 sitting on top. I'm completely happy with my build and the parts chosen and completely trust it.
I'm not really keyed up on the business practices or whatever Tom says on the internet, and I really don't care. From my experience, they put out good quality parts at a good price. Good enough for me.
And for everyone that see's the double-cock spider roll mark; I don't spend my day thinking about dicks, so I guess I don't really see it.
SomeOtherGuy
08-10-12, 08:57
I had one. When I tried to zero it I used up all the windage in a Troy BUIS and most of the windage in a Vortex Strikefire. I determined that FSB alignment was the issue. Somehow the alignment had not been obvious before I started shooting it - I could see some FSB cant, but I didn't think it was enough to account for the zeroing issues. I suspect that the barrel was at an angle to the upper in addition to the FSB cant, and it kinda looked like that when I looked at it closely, but I didn't try to measure that alignment so I'm not certain.
I contacted Spike's and they agreed to fix it with no hassle, and sent me a call tag. I sent it in and a couple weeks later I got a replacement new one (not a fix of mine, a fresh new one that wasn't canted). Since I had other nice toys by then I chose to sell it and got what I had into it ($630) as they were not available new at that time.
It didn't malfunction in the very brief use I put it too - not enough to make any claims. I just decided it wasn't exactly what I wanted.
When it was introduced a year ago, the only comparable setup was the Noveske, and the Spike's was significantly lower cost. Now there are more options - PSA has a nearly identical upper, for one - and prices are still moderate on most brands if you know where to shop.
Mine shipped today. I love how butt hurt that guy got about you mentioning BCM. I for one think BCM is overhyped.
The components of the "Elite" upper are quality and the combined package should be really nice. As they say, no news is good news and if threads aren't piling up about how terrible these uppers are then I wouldn't worry.
I buy based on how the product looks and functions. Magazine ads and owners that like to ruffle feathers don't make me cry like some folks here and elsewhere.
sinlessorrow
08-10-12, 20:41
Mine shipped today. I love how butt hurt that guy got about you mentioning BCM. I for one think BCM is overhyped.
The components of the "Elite" upper are quality and the combined package should be really nice. As they say, no news is good news and if threads aren't piling up about how terrible these uppers are then I wouldn't worry.
I buy based on how the product looks and functions. Magazine ads and owners that like to ruffle feathers don't make me cry like some folks here and elsewhere.
Doesn't make me cry, but I would rather give my hard earned money to a company with great quality products AND great CS, not a company with decent products and dick for owner.
Doesn't make me cry, but I would rather give my hard earned money to a company with great quality products AND great CS, not a company with decent products and dick for owner.
But Spikes DOES have great customer service. No worries.
Mine shipped today. I love how butt hurt that guy got about you mentioning BCM. I for one think BCM is overhyped.
Interesting. What is this based off of? Your professional opinion? In what way is it "overhyped" and who is doing this??
C4
Interesting. What is this based off of? Your professional opinion? In what way is it "overhyped" and who is doing this??
C4
Dammit! 10k rounds through my BCM and now I found out that I bought into hype? I feels so violated. Right after i finish ordering one of these 'Elite' uppers I better head over to Arfcom and find out if I was also tricked into buying a Colt and Noveske.
Dammit! 10k rounds through my BCM and now I found out that I bought into hype? I feels so violated. Right after i finish ordering one of these 'Elite' uppers I better head over to Arfcom and find out if I was also tricked into buying a Colt and Noveske.
Loser. :D
C4
Loser. :D
C4
You sold me half of it! I want a refund you sheisty trickster! :haha:
Over hyped doesn't mean not worthy. It just seems they're a brand that is recommended often that comes at a price premium when plenty of other brands offer great value for less.
I've been happy to see people putting up PSA vs BCM and people actually backing PSA.
I like bang for my buck.
And for everyone that see's the double-cock spider roll mark; I don't spend my day thinking about dicks, so I guess I don't really see it.
That's ok mine has horse nuts on the side. Dont feel too bad.....:cray:
http://www.simonpure.com/images/Colt15-Rampant-colt.jpg
Over hyped doesn't mean not worthy. It just seems they're a brand that is recommended often that comes at a price premium when plenty of other brands offer great value for less.
I've been happy to see people putting up PSA vs BCM and people actually backing PSA.
I like bang for my buck.
I dont get what you are saying. A complete BCM carbine can be had for a little over $1000. Thats a ****ing steal and a half......
One of my shooting partners has one of the Elite uppers. He has taken it thru several classes, trains and competes with it monthly and has been very pleased with it. He runs it pretty hard and probably has 10k thru it so far. Its pretty accurate too.
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
sinlessorrow
08-10-12, 22:46
http://i.imgur.com/QwBHH.jpg
Also spikes does not have great CS, the one time I had to deal with them Tom himself answered and he told me I had no idea what I was talking about and that it was fine(canted FSB)
ViennaGambit
08-10-12, 22:58
Thanks for all the info.
Constructive thread guys. Thanks.
Those few of you that provided actual insight to my question are much appreciated.
Just shoot your Spikes. If you like it, thats all that matters. Run it into the ground. Report back.
Woof.
.
The second you mentioned not taking the BCM and started barking and shit you were fishing for drama, you brought the Dicks upon yourself. :D
TTFN
Good luck.
maddawg5777
08-11-12, 00:00
Once again another spikes thread gone to shit. My thoughts are spikes makes decent shit (yes i have a lower) but we all know tom is a deutsche and played bullshit games when it came to providing paperwork on his testing and barrel steel.
OP get off the interwebz put a couple k through it then report back. If it still shoots straight then your good to go.
TacticalSledgehammer
08-11-12, 01:49
I don't understand the obsession with penises on here.
JeepDriver
08-11-12, 06:15
I bought one last year, I replaced the gas block w/ a low profile one and added a free float tube. I use it for gun games and general ammo wasting.
I only have about 1,000 rds through it so I can not really comment on durability or reliability. It has went bang when I pulled the trigger every time so far I all I can really say.
Over hyped doesn't mean not worthy. It just seems they're a brand that is recommended often that comes at a price premium when plenty of other brands offer great value for less.
I've been happy to see people putting up PSA vs BCM and people actually backing PSA.
I like bang for my buck.
First, why do you think that PSA or ST is EQUAL to BCM? Again, is that your professional opinion as an armorer? Manufacturer?
Question, which BCM products do you own that allows you to compare them against PSA and ST???
Do I think that PSA and ST are a good value? Yep, sure do and would take these two brands over most of the "popular" AR's out there (BM/RRA/DPMS/Oly/Armalite/etc).
C4
How many of times does this have to be covered? Spikes (and PSA) are both VERY good value and you should not feel like you've purchased an inferior product; they are leagues ahead of the popular commercialized brands out there.
That being said, if you can afford it, then a Colt, BCM, or DD is the way to go. If you cannot afford it, that's okay too, because Spikes and PSA got you covered!
BCM is way more proven than Spikes. ST does offer a comparable product but does not have the same reputation due to their shady business practices, inferior quality control (just compared to BCM), and snake oil gimmick products such as their tungsten buffers.
BCM does not make gimmick products. Anything branded BCM is going to be of the highest quality and perform as advertised. Take he Gunfighter charging handle, for instance, it's a revolutionary design that has become the standard. Overall, I am a fan of Spikes, and I'm actually dying to put together a complete Spikes Tactical carbine or rifle to compliment my BCM. Either one will suit you fine, but if you have the extra money then you owe it to yourself to get a BCM.
I never said any brand was EQUAL to another. You're quite the annoying vendor. Seems you're popular around here though.
As for HKBanger, I've seen nothing from Colt lately that shows they're any better than anyone. They seem to have the most fanboys though.
I could buy a BCM to compare and I could also afford a DD. Again, I'm frugal and want bang for my buck. I don't buy just because of brand names.
I'm defending Spikes yes but I have no aversion to other brands. The only other upper on my list is a Rainier Arms upper.
Also, I own the "snake oil" buffers and run them right along with BCM charging handles. Imagine that.
everyusernametaken
08-11-12, 10:53
I never said any brand was EQUAL to another. You're quite the annoying vendor. Seems you're popular around here though.
As for HKBanger, I've seen nothing from Colt lately that shows they're any better than anyone. They seem to have the most fanboys though.
I could buy a BCM to compare and I could also afford a DD. Again, I'm frugal and want bang for my buck. I don't buy just because of brand names.
I'm defending Spikes yes but I have no aversion to other brands. The only other upper on my list is a Rainier Arms upper.
Also, I own the "snake oil" buffers and run them right along with BCM charging handles. Imagine that.
People like this do more than anything else to cast a bad light on Spikes products for me. This seems like the typical proponent of the Spikes brand. It's rarely anyone knowledgeable promoting them compared to the workhorse brands. There are exceptions, but this is very common from what I've seen.
FourLoko, the premise of this thread is dicked up enough, as it is (OP wants input AFTER something's been purchased...) without you mistaking your attempts to find the most clever possible way of typing something as being helpful to keeping it open, much less presenting a cogent argument.
Find a way to inject a polite tone into your posts, or one will be found for you. This isn't Facebook, and you are held accountable...AND you agreed to the forum's policies/practices by the act of registering.
Saying that Spike's has...I'll be kind and say 'inconsistent'...CS doesn't rate you flinging around "fanboy" just because it matches the trend instead of your personal experiences.
Ok, so 240 rounds of MFS steel cased ammo puts my first Spikes upper over 1,000 rounds. Childs play for some but the upper has run flawless. I've used mostly grease and for most standards people would say I'm running the thing dry. No issues. This is with the standard phosphate bolt carrier and bolt.
I'd like to see the argument for why BCM is better. An FN CMV or CHF barrel mated to a milspec receiver so the only difference is the bolt and carrier. I've read enough to know the BCM bolt carrier group is often touted as the best. That's the only thing that might set them apart.
Unless there's a better reason than that, my desire to own a BCM upper will remain quite low.
wetidlerjr
08-11-12, 16:21
Ok, so 240 rounds of MFS steel cased ammo puts my first Spikes upper over 1,000 rounds. Childs play for some but the upper has run flawless. I've used mostly grease and for most standards people would say I'm running the thing dry. No issues. This is with the standard phosphate bolt carrier and bolt.
I'd like to see the argument for why BCM is better. An FN CMV or CHF barrel mated to a milspec receiver so the only difference is the bolt and carrier. I've read enough to know the BCM bolt carrier group is often touted as the best. That's the only thing that might set them apart.
Unless there's a better reason than that, my desire to own a BCM upper will remain quite low.
:rolleyes:
(I think I hear something coming!)
I never said any brand was EQUAL to another. You're quite the annoying vendor. Seems you're popular around here though.
Right because you haven't been implying that they were equal for less money than BCM.
Annoying? Are you sure you aren't talking about yourself? I know it is fun to make wild ass claims and not back things up with ACTUAL first hand experience, but that doesn't fly around here.
You still have not answered ANY of my questions, but my guess is that you cannot. Just so we are all clear, you have NEVER owned a BCM or Colt product, [b]BUT[/]b feel that you are knowledgeable enough on those companies products to do a comparison between them and ST?? Does that sound about right??
I could buy a BCM to compare and I could also afford a DD. Again, I'm frugal and want bang for my buck. I don't buy just because of brand names.
Why do that when you can just make things up!
C4
I for one think BCM is overhyped.
Over hyped doesn't mean not worthy.
If it is worthy, then it is not over hyped, as there is no deception.
It just seems they're a brand that is recommended often that comes at a price premium when plenty of other brands offer great value for less.
My BCM upper, with BCG, MagPul handguard, and BCM CH was the same price as your order.
totenkopf_u64
08-12-12, 18:27
My BCM upper, with BCG, MagPul handguard, and BCM CH was the same price as your order.
Precisely. Bravo Co. gets tossed in with the upper echelon names in the AR biz because their reputation for product and service is above reproach, not because they are expensive! This will sound like a shameless plug, but Grant has certainly earned his reputation around here. What can you say when a solid product is carried by an honest outfit... just plain confidence inducing.
Seriously, my new upper got to my door in two days, came with a hat, five posters, some dvds, magazines, and stickers for my truck; it's like swagpocalypse around here, and that's just the icing. BCM has earned my loyalty.
Grant, you had better not sell out of BCM blem lowers!
Also, I am totally biased. Even special BCG coatings will not sway my opinion.
ViennaGambit
08-12-12, 20:06
My BCM upper, with BCG, MagPul handguard, and BCM CH was the same price as your order.
The Spikes is cold hammer forged and includes a nickle boron bcg - I dont think that is an apples to apples comparison.
The standard Spikes 16" upper middy with standard BCG and MOE handguards is $500 - sell the spikes charging handle and add a gunfighter and you are at $520 - still a decent amount less than the standard BCM 16" middy offering...
I am not regretting my purchase or looking for reassurance - I am confident this upper will be awesome and have not yet seen a reason to think otherwise from Spikes.
I did not mean to start a BCM vs. Spikes shit fest - all I wanted to know was any first hand experience since there is really not much about the Spikes CHF uppers on any of the forums.
Bizzarolibe
08-12-12, 20:22
I don't think being around for a year means anything. The mullet has been around since the fifties, that doesn't make it a good idea.
Lot's of shiny things, read fancy 'tactical elite' type names (hasn't worked for RRA either) and coatings doesn't automatically make it a 'good' value, let along a 'better' value than a well known, proven, and highly respected manufacturer such as BCM.
Just my opinion, and experience.
Comparing ST to RRA betrays a stunning level of ignorance. Well done.
OP, I've had three Spikes rifles (well, two rifles and one upper to be precise) in the past and currently own one. The Spikes rifles/uppers that I've sold have only been sold because I was wanting to try out different configurations. Out of the thousands of rounds I have had through all three combined, I have experienced precisely 0 malfunctions, and they have been nothing but accurate and well-designed.
I actually have the 14.5" version of the upper you just bought, and it is currently my primary AR. My backup AR is a Rainier Arms CE16 with home built lower (that should make some heads explode). The "Elite" upper is my favorite so far; I'm a big fan of the barrel profile Spikes used. Considering everything you get in the upper (CHF FN barrel, melonited gas tube, ST-T2 buffer, NiB BCG, etc.), it's also a very good value.
But yeah, this is not the forum to come to to validate yourself if you buy anything with the Spikes logo on it. It's a good forum with alot of accurate information, but just like with other forums you have to have a functional BS filter to make it worth your while.
From a purely objective standpoint, you made a great purchase ;)
totenkopf_u64
08-12-12, 20:31
From a purely objective standpoint, you made a great purchase ;)
The problem is that quantifying quality is very difficult to do in this case. I'm stoked that we're all happy with our purchases though... it's all that really matters.
ViennaGambit
08-12-12, 20:53
Thank you Bizzarolibe for sharing your experiences - its appreciated that you still take the time to post despite the atmosphere here.
The problem is that quantifying quality is very difficult to do in this case. I'm stoked that we're all happy with our purchases though... it's all that really matters.
I agree
All I originally wanted were observations and experiences from those who have either built an upper using the Spikes CHF barrels or bought the uppers from AIM a year ago. How they are holding up, issues, praises, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.
I should have not mentioned BCM in my OP nor my recent purchase. Lesson learned when posting on this particular forum.
I think this thread has done all it will do for any of us.
The problem is that quantifying quality is very difficult to do in this case. I'm stoked that we're all happy with our purchases though... it's all that really matters.
Exactly. The problem behind most of these brand shitstorm threads is that most people become emotionally invested in their firearm. if you like the gun you bought then great, but dont go out of your way to trash another respected brand, especially if you have no experience with it. we all need to step back and remember that they are just tools like any hammer or screwdriver.
Bizzarolibe
08-12-12, 21:20
The problem is that quantifying quality is very difficult to do in this case. I'm stoked that we're all happy with our purchases though... it's all that really matters.
Man, I swear all you M4C guys need a sarcasm meter recalibration :D
Remind me to keep the jokes to a minumum here (real operators don't laugh, right?).
TacticalSledgehammer
08-12-12, 22:29
Man, I swear all you M4C guys need a sarcasm meter recalibration :D
Remind me to keep the jokes to a minumum here (real operators don't laugh, right?).
You hit the nail on the head. That along with the censorship of certain things.
everyusernametaken
08-12-12, 23:04
Thank you Bizzarolibe for sharing your experiences - its appreciated that you still take the time to post despite the atmosphere here.
I agree
All I originally wanted were observations and experiences from those who have either built an upper using the Spikes CHF barrels or bought the uppers from AIM a year ago. How they are holding up, issues, praises, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.
I should have not mentioned BCM in my OP nor my recent purchase. Lesson learned when posting on this particular forum.
I think this thread has done all it will do for any of us.
You know, continually criticising this site and its members does not help your cause. You seem to be looking for validation, and when you don't receive it, you imply that it must be the fault of everyone here because we are predisposed against your pet brand. Seriously, if you're happy with your purchase, good for you, but you should have noticed by now that this isn't the place to go to have people stroke your ego. Whining about the responses you get is childish and pathetic.
ViennaGambit
08-12-12, 23:12
I was not looking for validation - just some reviews/positives/negatives on a particular firearm.
OP, I purchased the middy FN CHF optimum profile barrel stripped, when they(spikes)first offered them up($199 introductory). I committed something of a double sin....I coupled it with an Adams Arms piston kit :0. I never bothered to post about my experience with my build. Ive run a standard spikes bolt with the FN barrel and AA kit for over 3k tounds and no issues. I can also say that my spikes fn barreled build is more accurate than my DD chf m4 barreled build(both with battle comps). I also have a few thousand rounds on a spikes nib bcg with no issue, though im not sure its significantly better than a quality standard bcg for what the nib costs.
The Spikes is cold hammer forged and includes a nickle boron bcg - I dont think that is an apples to apples comparison.
No, but not sure to what specs Spikes has their barrels manufactured.
I am not regretting my purchase or looking for reassurance - I am confident this upper will be awesome and have not yet seen a reason to think otherwise from Spikes.
Don't regret it, you did fine and should have many years of service from it!
I did not mean to start a BCM vs. Spikes shit fest - ...
You didn't, several others did, and I responded to one of those posters, so lighten up.
I bought the Spikes Elite CHF upper when they first came out from aim. Bryan was touting .5 MOA, blah, blah, blah. I mated it with a spikes lower, rra 2 stage trigger, ergo grip, moe stock. I topped it with a vortex diamondback 4-12x40 BDC scope on a PEPR mount.
Well not quite .5 moa for me, around 1 moa at best, this gun is my "AK47" of ARs. I have abount 2.5K rounds through it without a single misfire, fail to load, feed, eject, etc. So far flawless. It eats factory loads, handloads, silver bear, even the crap lacquer coated russian without a hitch. Everything from 40gr vmax BVAC to 75gr AMAX. 55gr HP Silver bear almost as accurate as my handloads, 75gr Hornady HPBT, LC brass, RL-15, WSR primer. The worst load I have run into for this gun was Federal white box 55gr, 3-4+MOA.
I have had colts, an SP1 and 6940LE, in the past and they are fine. Both had ammo that they would not take. I never had a BCM, so have nothing to say.
My Daniel Defense V5 is as picky as an old lady when it comes to ammo. I have had a couple fail to fires with M855. Every round fails to eject with silver bear, but shoots. The first wolf round I fired got stuck, so never tried again. Put handloads in, and it IS a .5 MOA gun though. The DD had a bad ejecter spring/o-ring when I received it, but DD sent me a new one ASAP. Only that pissed me off with DD when I called them about the fail to eject on the silver bear was their comment "why are you putting crappy russian ammo through a premium rifle?" That to me was a copout.
I have 2 S&W15s, one optic ready LE, the other the MOE LE version. Both shoot fine. The MOE with the 1:8 5R rifling and melonite coating IS ACCURATE. I do not have enough rounds throught it to say much more.
To me, if I can have confidence that a gun will go bang everytime I pull the trigger, no matter what ammo I have available, is the most trustworthy gun to have. I almost sold the spikes gun in the hype for a fat premium, but decided it is my best SHTF gun in my stable besides the AK so I kept it.
I have since free floated the barrel with a TROY Alpha 11".
Last range time: To windy for meaningful groups, however we banged the 20"x20 plate everytime at 557 yards, once we had the wind dialed. Only 2 misses for my nephew before he hit the target consistantly. He is not a regular shooter so impressive. 1 miss for me, before I had it doped. Used the silver bear ammo.
I have no issue with spikes. As for the "dicks" some of you are seeing, well I am sure the psycologists would have something to say about that. Ever done an Rorschach ink blot test? :no:
DiabhailGadhar
06-10-13, 13:14
I don't generally get involved in this back and forth ish about spikes but since I have first hand knowledge of spikes..and BCM. Ill provide input and reasoning.
First of all I own a spikes (m4 LE 16" ) and I did a bit, not as much as some, of a stress test when I first assembled the rifle. I initially assembled it wiped it down, lubed it and for the better part of a year and a half I put around 1500 rounds through it without touching it again. I had no issues and to say I don't buy expensive ammo would be an understatement, I do not however run steel cased crap through my guns...good or not I won't do it. I had just had my first kid or the round count would be significantly higher. But anyway you want to know the reason I swapped to BCM and won't be returning to spikes, grab a beer and READ.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=75640
Then I picked up BCM upper (mine didn't come with any swag however, which I'm still butt hurt about but life goes on :p) up from Grant along with all the other necessary parts for a build save the rail and a stripped lower and BCG which I later ordered from BCM directly. YOU CAN TAKE ONE LOOK AT BCM PRODUCTS AND TELL, if its not your first time with an AR you know who you are, that they are just made to a higher standard its like comparing the interior of a Ferrari to a corvette's, it's just ****ing better. Don't get me wrong a spikes will run and far better then some bushmaster POS..but it ain't a BCM period. You can argue the point til your blue in the face and most of us wish you would :rolleyes:. But I promise if I had the option of taking my spikes someplace that sucked vs taking the BCM that spikes would be collecting dust...BCM can be had for a VERY reasonable price point and there is no reason that when comparing the two that spikes should remain an option. I've had the BCM completed now six months and I think it has around 2k through it...best AR I've messed with.
Not a bad post...till the last paragraph. You have input, just no reasoning. You are as subjective as the OP. You sound like my wife why you just simply MUST have the blue shoes instead of the red.
To be fair, I do not own a Spikes, so I am not commenting for or against them. I am following this thread for a different reason.
DiabhailGadhar
06-14-13, 06:28
So as to prevent the often made mistake of chuckman confusing a big hairy white guy with his wife ill try to do a bit better job of quantifying....the BCM's finish and fit are more solid. It feels made well, we know for a fact that theyre components are made to a set standard. They're proven to run regardless of variables, Chuck that doesnt include putting your gimp mask in the chamber, by a LARGE number of members here which does include many industry professionals. I'd try to quantify it more but without turning it into a big hairy guy photoshoot, sorry to disappoint chuck, you'll just have to see the rifles side by side and maybe own both. Which I don't recommend. Also I'd shoot them side by side but that won't exactly get us very far, 1. They're entirely different profiles one is a rifle length the other an m4. 2. I'd say you could use the m4 chart to compare the two, it would imply that they are built to a very similar standard, but spikes has been known to fib, where as BCM hasn't ever to my knowledge.
I don't know if I furthered my point here chucky, maybe I didn't. But your best bet is to grab your wife/husbands purse and go down to a gun store/show that carries both example. It should be readily apparent which of those big guys is better, pun intended.:D
So as to prevent the often made mistake of chuckman confusing a big hairy white guy with his wife ill try to do a bit better job of quantifying....the BCM's finish and fit are more solid. It feels made well, we know for a fact that theyre components are made to a set standard. They're proven to run regardless of variables, Chuck that doesnt include putting your gimp mask in the chamber, by a LARGE number of members here which does include many industry professionals. I'd try to quantify it more but without turning it into a big hairy guy photoshoot, sorry to disappoint chuck, you'll just have to see the rifles side by side and maybe own both. Which I don't recommend. Also I'd shoot them side by side but that won't exactly get us very far, 1. They're entirely different profiles one is a rifle length the other an m4. 2. I'd say you could use the m4 chart to compare the two, it would imply that they are built to a very similar standard, but spikes has been known to fib, where as BCM hasn't ever to my knowledge.
I don't know if I furthered my point here chucky, maybe I didn't. But your best bet is to grab your wife/husbands purse and go down to a gun store/show that carries both example. It should be readily apparent which of those big guys is better, pun intended.:D
You are funny. One of the things I appreciate about this forum is the ability to quantify differences (hence, 'The Chart'). Your previous post didn't quantify any differences; I appreciate that the BCM 'looks better' and 'shoots better,' but there has to be more to it than that (some of which you alluded to in your last post). The M4 which I was issued and carried rattled like an AMC Gemlin, but it was a Colt and never had significant issue, so I don't take a lot of stock in fit and finish examples.
I am not dogpiling, really, just want more objective detail on why one is better than another. Again, I have neither shot nor owned a Spikes, but I have shot or owned many other ARs (including BCM) and want to understand why one is better than another. If Spikes, indeed, lies about its product specs, I want to know the 'how' and 'why' without it turning into a mere 'dissatisfied customer'-sounding rant.
I am not dogpiling, really, just want more objective detail on why one is better than another. Again, I have neither shot nor owned a Spikes, but I have shot or owned many other ARs (including BCM) and want to understand why one is better than another. If Spikes, indeed, lies about its product specs, I want to know the 'how' and 'why' without it turning into a mere 'dissatisfied customer'-sounding rant.
I think this goes back to when they were called out about posting proof of their spec claims (they used to claim that their barrels were made of the same [or better spec'd] steel than mil-spec manufacturer's, that they HPT'd and MPI'd all their bolts, etc). When called out about it, they said they could post proof. When called on that, it took them something like SIX MONTHS to post the first report. This led myself (and others) to believe they hadn't been building to the specs they claimed until after they got called out on posting them.
This was fairly dramatized a year or two ago on TOS. After that, Tom at Spikes started claiming other manufacturer's were lying (he claimed that some weren't HPT'ing the .300blk), where he got shot down immediately.
Another good example: Spikes comes out with the BAR rail and immediately claims how light and thin it is (hint: it's neither). When I personally pointed out that it wasn't on their forum on TOS, they started promoting their customers' claims that since their rails were micro-radiused better than other manufacturers', theirs didn't require rail covers (while the other manufacturers did), making them equal in weight and diameter after the fact.
All of this, combined with the fact that (two years ago) they were selling complete rifles for $800-900 led several on this forum so simply quit looking at Spikes seriously, and for good reason. There were just too many too-good-to-true claims and price points, combined with much drama, a lack of transparency, and hostility, to view the company or its offerings with any reasonable confidence.
That doesn't mean they don't make a good rifle - on the contrary, they build at the very least rifles that appear to run very well for even most carbine-class attendees. They have, however, destroyed any confidence in transparency, which is why you find very few people on this site talking about them seriously.
I think this goes back to when they were called out about posting proof of their spec claims (they used to claim that their barrels were made of the same [or better spec'd] steel than mil-spec manufacturer's, that they HPT'd and MPI'd all their bolts, etc). When called out about it, they said they could post proof. When called on that, it took them something like SIX MONTHS to post the first report. This led myself (and others) to believe they hadn't been building to the specs they claimed until after they got called out on posting them.
This was fairly dramatized a year or two ago on TOS. After that, Tom at Spikes started claiming other manufacturer's were lying (he claimed that some weren't HPT'ing the .300blk), where he got shot down immediately.
Another good example: Spikes comes out with the BAR rail and immediately claims how light and thin it is (hint: it's neither). When I personally pointed out that it wasn't on their forum on TOS, they started promoting their customers' claims that since their rails were micro-radiused better than other manufacturers', theirs didn't require rail covers (while the other manufacturers did), making them equal in weight and diameter after the fact.
All of this, combined with the fact that (two years ago) they were selling complete rifles for $800-900 led several on this forum so simply quit looking at Spikes seriously, and for good reason. There were just too many too-good-to-true claims and price points, combined with much drama, a lack of transparency, and hostility, to view the company or its offerings with any reasonable confidence.
That doesn't mean they don't make a good rifle - on the contrary, they build at the very least rifles that appear to run very well for even most carbine-class attendees. They have, however, destroyed any confidence in transparency, which is why you find very few people on this site talking about them seriously.
Helpful. Thanks.
Reputation is everything, especially in a niche field like this.
justin_247
06-14-13, 16:19
I think this goes back to when they were called out about posting proof of their spec claims (they used to claim that their barrels were made of the same [or better spec'd] steel than mil-spec manufacturer's, that they HPT'd and MPI'd all their bolts, etc). When called out about it, they said they could post proof. When called on that, it took them something like SIX MONTHS to post the first report. This led myself (and others) to believe they hadn't been building to the specs they claimed until after they got called out on posting them.
This was fairly dramatized a year or two ago on TOS. After that, Tom at Spikes started claiming other manufacturer's were lying (he claimed that some weren't HPT'ing the .300blk), where he got shot down immediately.
Another good example: Spikes comes out with the BAR rail and immediately claims how light and thin it is (hint: it's neither). When I personally pointed out that it wasn't on their forum on TOS, they started promoting their customers' claims that since their rails were micro-radiused better than other manufacturers', theirs didn't require rail covers (while the other manufacturers did), making them equal in weight and diameter after the fact.
All of this, combined with the fact that (two years ago) they were selling complete rifles for $800-900 led several on this forum so simply quit looking at Spikes seriously, and for good reason. There were just too many too-good-to-true claims and price points, combined with much drama, a lack of transparency, and hostility, to view the company or its offerings with any reasonable confidence.
That doesn't mean they don't make a good rifle - on the contrary, they build at the very least rifles that appear to run very well for even most carbine-class attendees. They have, however, destroyed any confidence in transparency, which is why you find very few people on this site talking about them seriously.
I, too, am concerned about their behavior with regards to the whole proofing fiasco and the slow way they went about producing their documents. That being said...
Spike's has always been very honest with me since my first dealings with them three years ago. At the time, nobody knew where they were getting their LPKs, so I called them up and asked. With no hesitancy, they replied that they had primarily used kits from DPMS and were in the process of transitioning to another vendor due to their concerns over DPMS quality control, and advised me towards another LPK that they offered that did not use DPMS parts.
With lower receivers, they have always been very up-front as to where they source them from.
With the BAR rails, I can't imagine them saying that they were skinny, unless they had them confused with their SAR rails. They have repeatedly said that they call the BAR the "Big Ass Rail" and the SAR the "Skinny Ass Rail." There must have been some confusion somewhere in that conversation. The rails are not actually made by them - they're made by Seekins Precision.
If anybody is concerned about where they source their parts, call them up and ask. In my experience, as you can see, they have been pretty straightforward. From there, you can decide if you want to buy stuff from them. I think one can trust parts that are produced by FN (except for their 5.45x39 barrels they produced for PSA - total shit).
My Daniel Defense V5 is as picky as an old lady when it comes to ammo. I have had a couple fail to fires with M855. Every round fails to eject with silver bear, but shoots. The first wolf round I fired got stuck, so never tried again.
Im no expert but... fail to fire probably is not the gun, unless the trigger spring is junk, which I would find odd.
Sounds like the gun is malf due to underpowered ammo and failure to clean... Shoot a couple hundred rounds of 5.56, and clean and lube it and see if its still choking.
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