Rear Ended

[zakkk173]

So, I just wanted to get some opinions on this situation that I found myself in. I am a LEO in Maryland and was working night shift last week. Well long story short I was at a accident in the roadway when someone decided that red and blue flashing lights don't mean anything and just slammed into the back of my patrol vehicle. Now I am "certified" by my department to carry a patrol rifle and I do. It is personally owned so the department does not cover any damages that it might incur. Now I can make a claim through the guys insurance company for it but not sure if I should or have to. Visually it doesn't look damaged except for a bent rear BUIS. It is stored in a pelican case in my truck laterally and the case was wedged up in the trunk pretty good after it was hit. And the case was dented in pretty good. In the pictures below it doesn't look to bad but that's mostly because his vehicle went up underneath of mine which caused the truck to be pushed in pretty bad. I wasn't able to get anymore pictures before they sent it off to the body shop. I just don't want my rifle to be damaged and I find out later on it is. I haven't shot it since the accident. What would you guys do. Thanks for your input.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7128/7748922186_152a8e03de.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748922186/) IMAG0754 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748922186/) by zakkk173 (http://www.flickr.com/people/66010481@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8300/7748923696_400278b00e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748923696/) IMAG0749 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748923696/) by zakkk173 (http://www.flickr.com/people/66010481@N02/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8424/7748925854_0d15805f27.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748925854/)
IMAG0746 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66010481@N02/7748925854/) by zakkk173 (http://www.flickr.com/people/66010481@N02/), on Flickr

[Quentin]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, fortunately you weren't standing there when the guy hit you!

I'd get your rifle inspected quickly and then out to the range for a real shakedown. Odds are it's ok but it's a duty gun and you can't leave this to chance.

[Ender]

You have every right to file against the at fault driver's insurance. Since you own the rifle, you can do that without the department being involved. I agree with getting it inspected (get a written report) by reputable gunsmith.

ETA: advice from an insurance adjuster

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2.

[g5m]

Sorry about the accident and glad you're uninjured.
Otherwise, above ^ sounds like great advice.

[Guns-up.50]

I would take it in for sure, if its worth betting your life on its worth a second look.

A good lesson could be learned by all here.... Back-up rifles are worth their weight in gold..

[DrunkUncles]

As a fellow MD-er, I'm glad you were not hurt and hopefully your rifle is ok.

[Voodoo_Man]

Go full boat. Take the gun into as close to a certified armorer as there is and have him give you an estimate on damages. Then make a claim.

[seb5]

I agree with the above however have another thought on the subject. I am a cop and carry some of my own equipment by choice. Over the years I've had to have some replaced. Here's what has worked here;

If he rear ended you he should have received a citation. Before his court date take a visit to the court and give them the estimated cost of repair or replacement. The costs can be assessed with the fine or added as restitution. Sometimes that has been easier than going strictly civil.

[Voodoo_Man]

I agree with the above however have another thought on the subject. I am a cop and carry some of my own equipment by choice. Over the years I've had to have some replaced. Here's what has worked here;

If he rear ended you he should have received a citation. Before his court date take a visit to the court and give them the estimated cost of repair or replacement. The costs can be assessed with the fine or added as restitution. Sometimes that has been easier than going strictly civil.

If that is legal in your AO then awesome, around here that is most definitely not legal.

If his insurance will cover any damages, there is no reason to go any other route.

[midSCarolina]

I would definitely file a claim with the insurance company. You do not want to delay and have something that breaks in a few months because it sustained some damage that was hard to detect via a visual inspection during the accident. It will not hurt the dumb-ass that hit you and it is the safe thing to do. Since you are a police officer, I am sure the insurance company will happily oblige. Good luck.

[zakkk173]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I called his insurance company and filed a claim. They were really cool about it. I basically told the claim rep that the rifle is vital to my job and that I don't want to be caught with a broken rifle later down the road when I really need it. Also told her that because of the "tight tolerances" within the rifle it could possibly go kaboom in my face when I'm firing it. She told me that all I have to do is get a armorer or gunsmith to put what I said on paper and fax that along with a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the rifle and I will get reimbursed for it.

Hopefully all goes well.

Thanks guys

[fixit69]

The fact that the insurance company is receptive is all you should need. I am not LE, but given they have said what you posted, you should be good.

That said, insurance companies have screwed me in the past, take every measure you can to make sure your rifle is in working order.

You don't live in the state I do, but I do travel alot. The life this rifle could save may be yours or mine or my kin. Do what needs to be done to get you 5x5 ASAP.

[M4Fundi]

The most important thing is to immediately state to the insurance company that you believe there is damage to the rifle and have evidence to that effect. Then you can take your time and find out if there is damage, if you do not state it up front at the beginning then it is much more difficult later on and there is nothing wrong with CYA if you find that it is OK.

[fdxpilot]

Of course, a picture or two of the possible damage to the rifle would probably help in getting more useful opinions than pics of the damaged cruiser.

[opdsgt]

All our weapons are personally purchased/personally owned, but our agency replaces/repairs in situations similar to yours. Shame, really.

Stay safe.

[ST911]

Post pics of the case and rifle for better info. I've worked on a number of guns damaged in MVCs. There are usually tells, but sometimes it's more subtle. Hands-on inspection should be completed by a trained, experienced, and knowledgeable armorer/smith.

Your agency could be more helpful here. They can include damages to the officer's property with damage claims to state property. Have you exhausted those options for consideration?

Otherwise,


Submit a restitution request for any traffic court action
File a claim directly with the at-fault driver's carrier
Small claim action


Add damage claims like this to the list of discussion items at your next policy revision, contract negotiations, or employee relations meeting.

[Joe R.]

zakkk, I would send the rifle back to the manufacturer and explain what happened. Have them examine the rifle for damage, they will have the best ability to determine if there are any issues. Photos of the damage to your cruiser and the case will help.

My guess would be that short of xrays and the like they may very well not give the gun a clean bill of health and recommend replacement. Have them respond to you in writing and you will have the needed documentation for the insurance claim and piece of mind that your gun will work when needed.

[GunnutAF]

I'd say you should and could file against the driver( if he's insured)!:confused: I would guess the state is filing against him for the damaged vehicle? Glad your O.K be safe out there officer!:D

[g5m]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I called his insurance company and filed a claim. They were really cool about it. I basically told the claim rep that the rifle is vital to my job and that I don't want to be caught with a broken rifle later down the road when I really need it. Also told her that because of the "tight tolerances" within the rifle it could possibly go kaboom in my face when I'm firing it. She told me that all I have to do is get a armorer or gunsmith to put what I said on paper and fax that along with a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the rifle and I will get reimbursed for it.

Hopefully all goes well.

Thanks guys

Good that it wasn't an NFA item with their processing times.

[jbo723]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I called his insurance company and filed a claim. They were really cool about it. I basically told the claim rep that the rifle is vital to my job and that I don't want to be caught with a broken rifle later down the road when I really need it. Also told her that because of the "tight tolerances" within the rifle it could possibly go kaboom in my face when I'm firing it. She told me that all I have to do is get a armorer or gunsmith to put what I said on paper and fax that along with a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the rifle and I will get reimbursed for it.

Hopefully all goes well.

Thanks guys

In an insurance claim of this nature involving firearms, does the insurance company take possesion of the damaged rifle if it needs to be replaced? Kind of like they do when they total out a car?

[markm]

Fly Iraqgunz to your location for an inspection. You can save a little money by letting him sleep at your house.

Now I can't be responsible if he wanders around the house with no shirt. It's just a risk you must be willing to take.

[Stickman]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I called his insurance company and filed a claim. They were really cool about it. I basically told the claim rep that the rifle is vital to my job and that I don't want to be caught with a broken rifle later down the road when I really need it. Also told her that because of the "tight tolerances" within the rifle it could possibly go kaboom in my face when I'm firing it. She told me that all I have to do is get a armorer or gunsmith to put what I said on paper and fax that along with a copy of the receipt from when I purchased the rifle and I will get reimbursed for it.

Hopefully all goes well.

Thanks guys

If you were on my department, I would write a letter for you stating as a certified armorer that while your weapon may or may not function at this time, there is no way to verify damage hasn't been done which may impact its service life. Based on the high liability of officer involved shootings, and the obvious high priority of a weapon for a LEO, that the weapon be released from service and replaced.

Finding an armorer or smith that will guarantee the weapon is as good it was before impact isn't going to happen.

[Ender]

In an insurance claim of this nature involving firearms, does the insurance company take possesion of the damaged rifle if it needs to be replaced? Kind of like they do when they total out a car?

This happens when I settle property damage claims, unless the property was destroyed. I have never settled a claim involving a firearm, however. The policy could vary across companies, and could change if a firearm is involved. Only he insurance company involved can answer that.

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[zakkk173]

Again, thanks for all the advice guys. I am still waiting to hear from the insurance rep to contact me. I'm not sure how exactly it is going to work with them taking the rifle or not. And stickman, what you said is basically what I told the insurance rep on the phone, I just need to find a armorer to say the same on paper so I can fax it to them. And I can try to get some photo's up of the rifle.

[jbo723]

This happens when I settle property damage claims, unless the property was destroyed. I have never settled a claim involving a firearm, however. The policy could vary across companies, and could change if a firearm is involved. Only he insurance company involved can answer that.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2.


Thanks for the reply. The thought has never crossed my mind on what would happen if a firearm was damaged in an accident like this where an insurance company needed to get involved. 70% of my rifles are NFA and I would really be interested in how that would be handled if the lower/suppressor was deemed inoperable and the insurance company seizes the damaged item.

[rjacobs]

Thanks for the reply. The thought has never crossed my mind on what would happen if a firearm was damaged in an accident like this where an insurance company needed to get involved. 70% of my rifles are NFA and I would really be interested in how that would be handled if the lower/suppressor was deemed inoperable and the insurance company seizes the damaged item.

I personally would explain to them the legalities of the situation then I would probably arrange to have a mutually agreeable SOT take possession of said NFA item while the decision making process was taking place. IF they insisted on them(the insurance company) taking possession of the NFA item I would most likely get into contact(as well as put them into contact) with the ATF.

At no time would I simply hand over possession of the NFA item to the insurance company with out either the ATF or an SOT being present.

Maybe that is going overboard.

Now if it came to having to destroy the NFA item I would surrender it only to the ATF with the insurance company present. Then the ATF could fully destroy it and remove it from the registry.

What I would demand from the insurance was full replacement value plus the cost of the tax stamp.

[Stickman]

I just need to find a armorer to say the same on paper so I can fax it to them.


Have your department armorer do it for you, that is what we are there for, to be helpful.

[Iraqgunz]

Just a few thoughts.

1. Pics of the so-called damaged rifle would have been nice.

2. I would have contacted the manufacturer as someone else mentioned and had them perform an inspection after explaining what happened.

3. I personally would have checked the weapon, replaced any potential damaged parts and then would have shot the weapon. One would think that if the weapon had sustained notable damage stresses in the aluminum and elsewhere would be obvious.

4. I have seen weapons damaged in IED attacks both on foot and within vehicles that were inspected, repaired and sent back to the field. In your case the weapon was cased and in a vehicle. I doubt that yours sustained any serious damage that would cause it to blow up in your face.

5. Weird shit happens when weapons are involved. There are no absolutes.

[Aegis]

Zakkk,

PM Sent.

[statie07]

Hey Bro, sorry to hear about your 10-50. Our department has quite a few armorers that would more than likely help you out. They are listed on the DMS.

[Surf]

Just wondering if the problem has been handled.

If not I will comment on the insurance thing. I handle the inspection of weapons in this type of situation for my agency. I have only ever had to completely down 2 weapons, the last was about a year ago when a vehicle was rear ended. The bumper was in the backseat however. Receiver extension sheared at the space between the stock and castle nut, DD Omega X rail cracked at the barrel nut connection, barrel slightly bent and the upper cracked at the barrel thread connection. Lower was still serviceable, however the other fella's insurance company decided to replace with a completely new rifle instead of a rebuild. They do not actually take possession of the rifle, the receiver is submitted under a police report for destruction and that suffices for the insurance company and for the NFA questions.

[PA PATRIOT]

Just a few thoughts. I would have contacted the manufacturer as someone else mentioned and had them perform an inspection after explaining what happened.

Just a note that many weapon manufacturers are very receptive of repairing or replacing a L.E. owned firearm which was damaged in the line of duty free of charge as long as you ship it back to them for inspection and have paperwork to back up the cause of damage.

Glock and BushMaster were very accommodating to me in the past and may so the manufacturer of your AR should you return it to them.