View Full Version : $100 dollar transfer fee??? Ugh...
So I get a call from a CA gun dealer. The customer was in the store as they called me. The customer wanted a BCM lower shipped to his dealer. Once I answered the dealers questions, I heard the dealer advise the customer that the transfer fee was going to be $100!!! Are you kidding me????? That is more profit than what I make on the gun!!!! :blink:
I think I am in the wrong business. Screw actually stocking firearms, I am going just do transfers. :confused:
C4
theblackknight
08-10-12, 16:06
I have a local shop that dose about the same, I dont shop there anymore. If people will buy anything with zombie biohazard slapped on it, why not 100$ to transfer those evil assualting machine guns and lots of bullets.
So I get a call from a CA gun dealer. The customer was in the store as they called me. The customer wanted a BCM lower shipped to his dealer. Once I answered the dealers questions, I heard the dealer advise the customer that the transfer fee was going to be $100!!! Are you kidding me????? That is more profit than what I make on the gun!!!! :blink:
I think I am in the wrong business. Screw actually stocking firearms, I am going just do transfers. :confused:
C4
Unfortunately, this is all too common out there from what I hear. It's a sellers market and California FFLs are in a position to charge what they want.
AR15barrels
08-10-12, 16:19
So I get a call from a CA gun dealer. The customer was in the store as they called me. The customer wanted a BCM lower shipped to his dealer. Once I answered the dealers questions, I heard the dealer advise the customer that the transfer fee was going to be $100!!! Are you kidding me????? That is more profit than what I make on the gun!!!! :blink:
I think I am in the wrong business. Screw actually stocking firearms, I am going just do transfers. :confused:
C4
Shops do that all over the country to discourage the walk-in customer from ordering something online.
The shop would rather just sell them something that they keep in stock.
So, by making the transfer price so high, the customer does the math in his head and the $150 stripped lower on the wall at the shop is suddenly a better deal...
JBecker 72
08-10-12, 16:37
My VA gun shop charged $25 for a transfer. Out here in CA the cheapest I have found is $65 for a transfer with many over the $100 mark. Seems to be SOP for CA FFL's.
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TriumphRat675
08-10-12, 16:39
$100 was standard when I was shopping around in DFW. I found a guy who would do it for $25...he went bankrupt before my SBR paperwork went through...
The highest I've seen here in Tulsa is $35. Most are $20-$25. I have no clue on NFA stuff.
montanadave
08-10-12, 16:44
My LGS charges me twenty bucks.
So I get a call from a CA gun dealer. The customer was in the store as they called me. The customer wanted a BCM lower shipped to his dealer. Once I answered the dealers questions, I heard the dealer advise the customer that the transfer fee was going to be $100!!! Are you kidding me????? That is more profit than what I make on the gun!!!! :blink:
I think I am in the wrong business. Screw actually stocking firearms, I am going just do transfers. :confused:
C4
Keep in mind that is CA where it is harder and more expensive to be an FFL. You could never make that much in transfers in your zip code.
mallowpufft
08-10-12, 16:47
My local FFL advertises them for $10 plus $2.00 for the state background check for a whopping total of $12.00 . Another shop in the area charges $35 and another one just flat out won't do them if it's a gunbroker sale and charges $50 for anything else. They're in the process of slowly going out of business.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-10-12, 16:57
Most gunshops in CA save for a select 1 or 2 (tenpercentfirearms) charge between $75 and $150 for any out of state transfer. Any good deal you get on a gun out of state is now more expensive than it wouldve been in their store. Thats why I retained my CO citizenship and just bought all my guns when I was home on leave.
$20-$25 is the going rate where I'm at. 2 or more and they're $15 each.
Is that $100 transfer in CA exclusive or inclusive any state fees that get charged? Don't they have extensive reporting and/or checking they have to do? (working vaguely from memory)
Here in Utah I know an FFL who charges $15 for the first and $5 for any additional done at the same time. If you don't have a Utah CCW he charges you like $7.50 or whatever he gets charged for the state check in addition.
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AR15barrels
08-10-12, 19:08
Is that $100 transfer in CA exclusive or inclusive any state fees that get charged? Don't they have extensive reporting and/or checking they have to do? (working vaguely from memory)
Here in Utah I know an FFL who charges $15 for the first and $5 for any additional done at the same time. If you don't have a Utah CCW he charges you like $7.50 or whatever he gets charged for the state check in addition.
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DROS/Background Check (Dealers Record of Sale) is usually $25 and seperate of the $100 fee.
The $100 fee the dealers ask is pure profit that they want for the customer trying to save money by buying online instead of from their inventory.
DROS/Background Check (Dealers Record of Sale) is usually $25 and seperate of the $100 fee.
The $100 fee the dealers ask is pure profit that they want for the customer trying to save money by buying online instead of from their inventory.
So it is exclusive.
I know what transfer fees are for, especially high ones ;)
But there are dealers who wrap all the government fees into their transfer fee and there are others who have separate government fees from their transfer fee, which is why I asked.
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$75 is the going rate around my way...simply because the competition charges around that price.
Anything over $50 is unjustified, and even that is too much. Should be $30 maximum.
If they can charge that and make money, more power to them.
I just don't know that I could look a customer in the face and say that too them. Is this why CA gun owners always seem pissed off? :D
C4
My FFL charges $27. $25 for the transfer and $2 for the state fee. One of the reasons I stopped going to the last place is because the owner once told me he was going to jack up the transfer fees to force people to buy stuff from his shop.
Moose-Knuckle
08-10-12, 21:43
Hah! My FFL is a retired USMC Light Bird Col. who half the time waves the fee! :D
www.Ammo4guns.com
Has you do the the transfer to them and charges
$75 transfer plus sales tax.
I just don't know that I could look a customer in the face and say that too them
Ah, but you missed the detail even though you told us exactly about it: you were still on the phone when the dealer said the transfer fee amount.
This leaves them the opening of using you to look like the dick, not them.
Guy says '$100 transfer' while on the phone, (I'll lay odds the words were 'its gonna run $100 for the transfer', then customer nodded his OK and the order over phone was then completed) customer infers its what was said to dealer over phone, or after hanging up dealer does some song and dance about those damned out of state guys overcharging.
Customer thinks he's a great guy, dealer gets to pass the blame (but not the buck) and there's a 99.999% chance you as an out of state dealer will never call the customer directly to tell him how he's being ripped off by his 'pal at the shop', nor will customer ever work out specifically what shop the dealer was talking to so odds of them ever calling you are about as slim.
How do I know?
A relative used to **** people like that all the time when he had a gun shop.
Ah, but you missed the detail even though you told us exactly about it: you were still on the phone when the dealer said the transfer fee amount.
This leaves them the opening of using you to look like the dick, not them.
Guy says '$100 transfer' while on the phone, (I'll lay odds the words were 'its gonna run $100 for the transfer', then customer nodded his OK and the order over phone was then completed) customer infers its what was said to dealer over phone, or after hanging up dealer does some song and dance about those damned out of state guys overcharging.
Customer thinks he's a great guy, dealer gets to pass the blame (but not the buck) and there's a 99.999% chance you as an out of state dealer will never call the customer directly to tell him how he's being ripped off by his 'pal at the shop', nor will customer ever work out specifically what shop the dealer was talking to so odds of them ever calling you are about as slim.
How do I know?
A relative used to **** people like that all the time when he had a gun shop.
Luckily, the sale did not go through because the customer changed his mind on what he wanted.
C4
TangoSauce
08-10-12, 22:17
$40 transfer and $25 DROS in San Diego.
Karmic intervention, presuming you feel better about someone not getting screwed over than you feel bad about losing your potential profit.
I get the impression you're a good guy like that. :)
Keep in mind the CA waiting period. Guns could stay at the shop up to 30 days (the amount of time the DROS is valid for) or more if the customer is lazy or leaves town or down right just forgets. Is $100 excessive? A little, but if customers are paying it to have their guns transferred there, then what's wrong with that? They have choices, and they chose to pay a slightly higher premium. Usually I find shops around here charge $65-75, and that includes the CA DROS fee of $25, so in reality they make about $40-$50 on that weapon.
Karmic intervention, presuming you feel better about someone not getting screwed over than you feel bad about losing your potential profit.
I get the impression you're a good guy like that. :)
Once I heard that and then heard the customer change his mind to something that was out of stock, I was actually thrilled (because, when I get contacted by the customer, I will make them shop around).
C4
Keep in mind the CA waiting period. Guns could stay at the shop up to 30 days (the amount of time the DROS is valid for) or more if the customer is lazy or leaves town or down right just forgets. Is $100 excessive? A little, but if customers are paying it to have their guns transferred there, then what's wrong with that? They have choices, and they chose to pay a slightly higher premium. Usually I find shops around here charge $65-75, and that includes the CA DROS fee of $25, so in reality they make about $40-$50 on that weapon.
In this case, the DROS fee was NOT included in that $100.
Sorry, but when a transfer fee is MORE than the actual profit on the gun, that is wrong IMHO.
C4
The shop I deal with primarily charges $40 for most people but once he gets to know you and you've maybe bought at least one gun from him he does $25. I don't know if I've ever done two at once but I think he charges $10 for the second.
The most amazing I've ever encountered though is a guy who is at all our local gun shows. I don't think they have an actual store front; they just have an office for appointment only and then they do all the local shows. This guy probably has the best selection of anyone at the show; unfortunately he must be very proud of his guns and as such his mark up is insane.
Anyway, once I was talking to him and asked how much he charges for a transfer and was told "It depends on the gun." WTF? When I asked if could explain he basically told me that it depended on how much the gun normally costs because "He had to make sure he got his cut." I proceeded to get told about some half ass scale where a lower may be $25 and Glock may be $50 where as Colt AR might be $100 and something like a KAC AR might be $175 :suicide:
AR15barrels
08-11-12, 11:35
the sale did not go through because the customer changed his mind on what he wanted.
C4
Which is exactly the result the gun shop wanted...
Which is exactly the result the gun shop wanted...
If they make $100 pure profit on a transfer, I would think they would rather just process the transfer.
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AR15barrels
08-11-12, 11:41
I was talking to him and asked how much he charges for a transfer and was told "It depends on the gun." WTF? When I asked if could explain he basically told me that it depended on how much the gun normally costs because "He had to make sure he got his cut." I proceeded to get told about some half ass scale where a lower may be $25 and Glock may be $50 where as Colt AR might be $100 and something like a KAC AR might be $175 :suicide:
What he is really saying is 10% of purchase price or $25, whichever is more.
That's probably a pretty fair way to do it...
That's probably a pretty fair way to do it...
Why?
Because the paperwork is so radically different along with being significantly more intensive and time consuming on upscale guns than it is on throw aways?
Gander Mt. in North Canton charges $75.
Why?
Because the paperwork is so radically different along with being significantly more intensive and time consuming on upscale guns than it is on throw aways?
Exactly. Is that much harder to do a transfer on a SR25 in terms of time and paperwork than it is on a High Point?
JeepDriver
08-11-12, 12:10
That's sad, but it is the same around here.
Transfer fees run $30-100 for non-NFA.
Maryland has some bullshit laws and lots of extra paperwork and the state police charge a $10 fee for the voluntary registration. But $100 is bat shit crazy.
Needless to say, I go with the $30 guy when I need a transfer.
BrigandTwoFour
08-11-12, 14:56
$30-$35 is pretty standard around Central Montana.
There are a lot of gun shops in my town, but there's only one that actually sells stripped lowers. He has a pretty good gig set up. He knows that I can go buy a reputable stripped for $85-$100, and then have to pay shipping and transfer fees. So the ones he has in shop are around $135-$150. I'm fine with that business model, it's fair.
I would buy from him more if he stocked names other than RRA, Bushmaster, the occasional Spikes (bought one of those), and some company I've never heard of- Ardell Engineering.
He doesn't care about buying online and him doing the transfer, as long as it's not something he carries.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-11-12, 15:32
If anyone in SoCal need the number of a solid table-top FFL who WANTS your business and wants to do transfers for you...Pm me.
In Northern Va most places charge between $40-50.
For those of you who do transfers through a LGS.
Do you patronize the LGS for things other than your transfers? Do you buy an occasional magazine, bottle of lube, or other accessory there? Do you work to establish a relationship that he will appreciate and hence appreciate you?
While I don't necessarily agree with it, many LGS probably feel that you are taking business away from them with transfers, so want to "get theirs" anyway. If you allow them to "get theirs" by using the LGS for other items the LGS might feel better about doing transfers for a more reasonable price.
These sorts of relationships take a while to develop.
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ridgerunner70
08-11-12, 15:41
My FFL is $25
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-11-12, 16:48
For those of you who do transfers through a LGS.
Do you patronize the LGS for things other than your transfers? Do you buy an occasional magazine, bottle of lube, or other accessory there? Do you work to establish a relationship that he will appreciate and hence appreciate you?
While I don't necessarily agree with it, many LGS probably feel that you are taking business away from them with transfers, so want to "get theirs" anyway. If you allow them to "get theirs" by using the LGS for other items the LGS might feel better about doing transfers for a more reasonable price.
These sorts of relationships take a while to develop.
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Not quite that easy in the CA stores.
BrigandTwoFour
08-11-12, 17:27
For those of you who do transfers through a LGS.
Do you patronize the LGS for things other than your transfers? Do you buy an occasional magazine, bottle of lube, or other accessory there? Do you work to establish a relationship that he will appreciate and hence appreciate you?
While I don't necessarily agree with it, many LGS probably feel that you are taking business away from them with transfers, so want to "get theirs" anyway. If you allow them to "get theirs" by using the LGS for other items the LGS might feel better about doing transfers for a more reasonable price.
These sorts of relationships take a while to develop.
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I, for one, do shop at the LGS for things. There are three that I do business with in town, I have bought at least one firearm from each of them. I have also purchased, optics, accessories, and gotten work done on my firearms from them.
Not one has ever had an issue doing a transfer for me. i will always seek to buy from the LGS first, if available. If they don't have it, but can order it, I will still buy it from them as long as the final price is in the same area as buying it elsewhere and doing a transfer. I am ok with American capitalism at work and helping these guys put food on the table.
There are several shops that simply price themselves out of competition and won't negotiate, though. One "big box" sporting goods store wanted $700 for the same item I later purchased down the street for $520. I just don't do business with them- though i do fondle fairly often, as they have the largest selection in town.
Anyway, on topic, I lived in CA for a while (and probably be sent back soon), and I am doing my damndest to make sure I own everything I could want now, before I get sent back there and have to deal with the BS that those dealers put out there.
This discussion makes me so happy my dad has his FFL...:D
My LGS charged me $75 for a transfer on my first lower. They wanted $175 for their blem'd Bushmaster lowers, so my $60 lower was actually worth it, which pissed them off. When I saw what a reasonable transfer fee was, I was done paying for them from that store. The guy behind the counter was lecturing me about how dangerous kydex holsters, web gear, AR's are, etc.
jklaughrey
08-11-12, 20:28
I say to my LGS that they can get bent. They carry on the most part junk, price themselves out of competition, and are staffed by mostly idiots who think that the "judge" is the most awesome firearm to ever be made. I have done transfers through them, they bitch and grumble and find ways to make a simple transfer difficult due to them not being well versed in the nuances of the industry and configurations of certain items. A rifle lower is a rifle lower not a pistol lower, but they argue differently saying that you have to buy a whole rifle for it to be a rifle. Yep....idiots. So I just grin explain the rules and pay my 20 $ transfer and give them the finger. They want my business... then look, listen, and learn about the business you are in. Not all gun people are Fudds and impressed by shiny new trinkets.
So I get a call from a CA gun dealer. The customer was in the store as they called me. The customer wanted a BCM lower shipped to his dealer. Once I answered the dealers questions, I heard the dealer advise the customer that the transfer fee was going to be $100!!! Are you kidding me????? That is more profit than what I make on the gun!!!! :blink:
I think I am in the wrong business. Screw actually stocking firearms, I am going just do transfers. :confused:
C4
Grant,
I recently bought a BCM lower from you. My local FFL (Gusslers (http://gusslers.com/) in Santee, CA) charged me the following:
$25 DROS (Dealer Registration of Sale) This is fixed by CAL DOJ
$40 Transfer Fee. This was certainly the lowest in the San Diego area.
approx $35 Sales tax on purchase price. CAL DOJ mandates this.
I got out for about $100. This was the very best deal I could find. As a result, I strongly recommend Gusslers for transfers. His shop is run out of his home to keep expenses low. The process was painless.
One dealer I looked into had posted a transfer fee of $100 OR 10% of the sale price +tax+DROS
Some dealers seem to take it personal that you are not ordering from them in the first place.
In college I worked for a dealer for 3+ years. He certainly took it personal and charged out the whazoo for transfers. As a result, we did not do very many.
Anything over $50 is unjustified, and even that is too much. Should be $30 maximum.
The Democrat in you is showing...
If they can charge that and make money, more power to them.
Exactly...
If they make $100 pure profit on a transfer, I would think they would rather just process the transfer.
What is the FFL's time worth? In a retail scenario, pure profit is a financial fiction.
Is this why CA gun owners always seem pissed off? :DC4
I wish this was the only reason us Californian gun owners had to be pissed off over.
Belmont31R
08-13-12, 00:02
For those of you who do transfers through a LGS.
Do you patronize the LGS for things other than your transfers? Do you buy an occasional magazine, bottle of lube, or other accessory there? Do you work to establish a relationship that he will appreciate and hence appreciate you?
While I don't necessarily agree with it, many LGS probably feel that you are taking business away from them with transfers, so want to "get theirs" anyway. If you allow them to "get theirs" by using the LGS for other items the LGS might feel better about doing transfers for a more reasonable price.
These sorts of relationships take a while to develop.
--
I do buy accessories from the LGS, and they know me.
However, would not do that with a chincy LGS, and accept outrageous fees. A bottle of lube or a holster at MSRP doesn't mean I'll accept outrageous transfer fees.
Online sales are the future, and I pity the business who doesn't embrace it. We have such a huge online access to information it really benefits a BM store to put as much information out there as possible, and become a member of the online community.
My LGS has made me recommend a particular store for transfers quite a few times, and word of mouth is also a valuable tool. Especially if its word of mouth to actual experience and then again shared.
If they make $100 pure profit on a transfer, I would think they would rather just process the transfer.
What is the FFL's time worth? In a retail scenario, pure profit is a financial fiction.
I think you missed my point. I was replying to Randall who had said (in a reply earlier to the one that I was replying to -- my reply was to his immediate post bringing bringing up his earlier posting) that the $100 was pure profit. So I said, if it is pure profit, I would think he would rather just do transfers than try to sell one of his stocked lower receivers, which even jacked up in price, is probably not $100 profit.
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In Washington, transfers run around $45 plus close to 10% tax on what you paid for the firearm. Actually, in Washington, you are supposed to pay the tax on everything you buy out of state
I do buy accessories from the LGS, and they know me.
However, would not do that with a chincy LGS, and accept outrageous fees. A bottle of lube or a holster at MSRP doesn't mean I'll accept outrageous transfer fees.
Online sales are the future, and I pity the business who doesn't embrace it. We have such a huge online access to information it really benefits a BM store to put as much information out there as possible, and become a member of the online community.
My LGS has made me recommend a particular store for transfers quite a few times, and word of mouth is also a valuable tool. Especially if its word of mouth to actual experience and then again shared.
There is an FFL "only" forum out there. The subject of transfers comes up often with the majority of the dealers against it. I don't know if they realize that this is the future or not.
So instead of saying "NO" to doing transfers, they just charge rude money.
What me fellow gun dealers do not recognize (as they have zero business sense) is that getting a customer in your shop (by offering a $20-$30 dollar transfer) is a good idea! That customer is much more likely to buy other things (to include guns) from you because of the service he is receiving. He will also promote you to all his friends and family. This is a MUCH better end result than screwing them on transfer fees or being rude to them.
C4
montanadave
08-13-12, 09:13
What me fellow gun dealers do not recognize (as they have zero business sense) is that getting a customer in your shop (by offering a $20-$30 dollar transfer) is a good idea! That customer is much more likely to buy other things (to include guns) from you because of the service he is receiving. He will also promote you to all his friends and family. This is a MUCH better end result than screwing them on transfer fees or being rude to them.
C4
That's it in a nutshell. How can a LGS hope to stock the firearms inventory available thru the internet ... and then meet or beat those prices? Get the customer though the door and sell them ammunition, targets, cleaning supplies, a new scope, and all the rest.
It ain't a new idea. Manufacturers give printers away and make the money selling ink cartridges. Gas stations make their money selling pop and cigarettes, not gas. If transfers can be the "loss leader" to get a guy in the shop, they're turning away potential customers by not doing it.
And when they act like dicks or gouge the customer when doing a transfer, they lose that customer forever. Just read some of the comments in this thread. Terrible business practice.
What me fellow gun dealers do not recognize (as they have zero business sense) is that getting a customer in your shop (by offering a $20-$30 dollar transfer) is a good idea! That customer is much more likely to buy other things (to include guns) from you because of the service he is receiving. He will also promote you to all his friends and family. This is a MUCH better end result than screwing them on transfer fees or being rude to them.
C4
Couldn't disagree more. The transfer guys are all about playing Little Tijuana. Every retail transaction they enter into is a flashback to the last gun show they attended.
Couldn't disagree more. The transfer guys are all about playing Little Tijuana. Every retail transaction they enter into is a flashback to the last gun show they attended.
Sorry, am not following.
C4
That's it in a nutshell. How can a LGS hope to stock the firearms inventory available thru the internet ... and then meet or beat those prices? Get the customer though the door and sell them ammunition, targets, cleaning supplies, a new scope, and all the rest.
It ain't a new idea. Manufacturers give printers away and make the money selling ink cartridges. Gas stations make their money selling pop and cigarettes, not gas. If transfers can be the "loss leader" to get a guy in the shop, they're turning away potential customers by not doing it.
And when they act like dicks or gouge the customer when doing a transfer, they lose that customer forever. Just read some of the comments in this thread. Terrible business practice.
Completely flawed analysis...
A loss leader is still a loss. The most successful retail models understand that "IN STOCK" is the most important component of customer service they can provide. They also understand that demand is inelastic and they have no desire to get into a race to the bottom on pricing.
Completely flawed analysis...
A loss leader is still a loss.
Except that transfers are not a real loss leader, since there is not a loss. They still make money on the transaction.
The most successful retail models understand that "IN STOCK" is the most important component of customer service they can provide. They also understand that demand is inelastic and they have no desire to get into a race to the bottom on pricing.
Sorry, am not following.
C4
Little Tijuana... How cheap can I get? I know you are asking $495 for that Glock, would you take $445? Will you price match an internet retailer that has a lower price than you even though it's not in stock? These guys ain't potential customers. They are carbon dioxide generators out for a deal.
Little Tijuana... How cheap can I get? I know you are asking $495 for that Glock, would you take $445? Will you price match an internet retailer that has a lower price than you even though it's not in stock? These guy ain't potential customers. They are carbon dioxide generators out for a deal.
I don't think that a dealer has to match an internet price (as long as they are within a reasonable number).
For instance, gun shop sells a Glock 19 for $525. The consumer finds them online for $475. Most customers will pay an extra $50 to walk away with it right then and there.
If the LGS is professional (meaning not run by rude AHOLES), the consumer might even pay $75-$100 over what they can find online.
Of course, you will get customers that won't, but my experience is that people will pay more for better SVC (within reason).
C4
I don't think that a dealer has to match an internet price (as long as they are within a reasonable* number).
For instance, gun shop sells a Glock 19 for $525. The consumer finds them online for $475. Most customers will pay an extra $50 to walk away with it right then and there.**
If the LGS is professional (meaning not run by rude AHOLES), the consumer might even pay $75-$100 over what they can find online.
Of course, you will get customers that won't, but my experience is that people will pay more for better SVC (within reason).
C4
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIeRy5hJjCxjfISnds9uNWkZzA1FACemSCugkpjM_SUvq_qnpQ
*Just use the adjective reasonable... It's an undefinable term in the context of our discussion. How much less than MSRP is reasonable?
**You are on to something here. The guy willing to pay at or near retail falls within the slice of the retail sales pyramid that you should be targeting. He recognizes the knowledge, time and value added services that you provide are worth something.
Sorry, but Grant is right. The future for gun sales is internet sales and local transfers.
The LGS cannot be expected to have everything in stock -- that is too much capital tied up in inventory that may not move quickly.
The LGS will stock the hottest and most likely to sell firearms, and everything else will be done through the internet and transfers.
And the LGS will be a place to pick up accessories and stuff that you need right now. So make your customers happy through reasonable transfer policies and stocking all the extras that people may not be willing to wait for.
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*Just use the adjective reasonable... It's an undefinable term in the context of our discussion. How much less than MSRP is reasonable?
It is perfectly definable.
"That which the customer is willing to bear"
Through experience, the LGS dealer will figure out about where "reasonable" lies in his AO.
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montanadave
08-13-12, 12:21
Little Tijuana... How cheap can I get? I know you are asking $495 for that Glock, would you take $445? Will you price match an internet retailer that has a lower price than you even though it's not in stock? These guys ain't potential customers. They are carbon dioxide generators out for a deal.
Yeah, I am a potential customer. I'm just not interested in throwing my money away. I've purchased a fair number of firearms over the past few years. I'd estimate a 1/3 of those were purchased locally from 2-3 locally owned businesses, another 1/3 off of GunBroker from primarily private parties, and the remaining 1/3 from businesses I came across on various internet forums (e.g. Grant's shop).
In almost all cases, I have done some price researching and have determined what I believe to be a fair price. If I can get it locally, great. But if sales people simply refuse to consider a reasonable offer, I have no qualms about walking away and purchasing it from someone else. Cabela's, for example, have a policy of refusing to negotiate on any price and, coincidentally, I have yet to buy a firearm from them.
I fail to see anything wrong with a consumer shopping for the best price. And I also don't see price as the "be all and end all." I will give preference to a local business if the price is within reason and I also give preference to dealers that go the extra mile with knowledgeable staff who stand behind their product after the sale.
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIeRy5hJjCxjfISnds9uNWkZzA1FACemSCugkpjM_SUvq_qnpQ
*Just use the adjective reasonable... It's an undefinable term in the context of our discussion. How much less than MSRP is reasonable?
**You are on to something here. The guy willing to pay at or near retail falls within the slice of the retail sales pyramid that you should be targeting. He recognizes the knowledge, time and value added services that you provide are worth something.
First, retail price is often a "pie in the sky" number that gun shops are not aware of OR don't even consider (as they are off the chart). A smart gun dealer is going to pay attention to what his local competition is charging and then try to match them (if possible).
Yes, people will pay for knowledge on SOME things, but not everything. For instance, a bone stock Glock really doesn't need any "technical" knowledge from the dealer. The customer just wants it "as is" from the manufacturer. Now if we flip this around to building a custom AR, then yes, the customer will generally pay for the knowledge (IF they have a clue).
C4
In almost all cases, I have done some price researching and have determined what I believe to be a fair price. If I can get it locally, great. But if sales people simply refuse to consider a reasonable offer, I have no qualms about walking away and purchasing it from someone else.
This is an important thing for the CONSUMER to pay special attention to. What I am about to say, doesn't apply to you, but I am just going to use your comments to help educate buyers.
First, consumers need to realize that there is typically only 10%-20% profit in a firearm. This is BEFORE shipping and CC fees. So asking your dealer to come down 18% from the asking price isn't going to happen.
Second, consumers need to realize that FFL's with a store front have a lot of expensive liability insurance and such. They of course also have rent, employees, utilities, etc, etc.
Third, consumers need to realize that firearms can be purchased many different ways. The three main ways are, from a distributor (lower profits for the dealer here), direct from the manufacturer (higher profit, but is nearly impossible to do any more and generally has to be in the form of an LE/Mil account) through a buying group (higher profits, but these groups have many rules and you generally have to be a Million dollar business before they will even let you in the group).
Most consumers that hang out on the net are used to seeing low prices from dealers (such as ourselves) that go direct to big companies like S&W, Colt, etc and think that their local FFL can match these prices and they simply cannot. The prices we offer to the consumer are commonly what most dealers pay!! So keep this in mind when asking your local dealer to price match or lower their prices.
C4
It is perfectly definable.
"That which the customer is willing to bear"
Through experience, the LGS dealer will figure out about where "reasonable" lies in his AO.
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Since you did not offer anything to the discussion, you must really agree with me. Sarcastic smileys not withstanding.
My reply was 100% spot on in how dealers will have to react and run their business in the future.
The internet is not going away and those who refuse to adapt will go the way of the dodo.
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Luckily my LGS doesn't charge me a transfer fee. With that being said I buy about 90% of my weapons and ammo etc from him and have done so for a while.
Grant is right about the profit margins. I was partners in a LGS for a while and margins were tight. Even now 15% is about the norm.
CarlosDJackal
08-14-12, 10:57
When the one local Gun Shop started charging $50 for transfers, a lot of their customers rebelled and went elsewhere. A couple obtained their own FFL and started charging $25. One charges $50 for Class 3 transfers (which is low since he has to keep the item in his shop until the approved ATF Forms come back - usually at least 6-months).
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