View Full Version : New 2012 M&P9s ship with different barrels?
vicious_cb
08-11-12, 00:52
Has anyone here purchased a new production M&P9 FS? Apparently S&W finally got their act together and redesigned their barrels in the light of all the accuracy issues people have been having. Can anyone confirm that new production guns are shipping with these barrels? Or who is stocking them?
Hilton Yam posted a write up here: http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012_06_01_archive.html
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rv7Bf2A8VQU/T-dHcRKg7bI/AAAAAAAAAQo/cdHYF9HFmAY/s1600/M%2526P-Barrels-2.jpg
Accuracy issues were fixed long ago...I haven't seen or heard of any newer production M&Ps with those issues...
Accuracy issues were fixed long ago...I haven't seen or heard of any newer production M&Ps with those issues...
What is your definition of long ago? My 2011 FDE 9FS shoots patterns, not groups beyond 15 yards. It went back to S&W once and was returned as "in-spec" with nothing done to it to fix the problem.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
My December 2010 Pro has the same shaped barrel. It shot patterns also. IIRC, that redesign was done to eliminate an undercut at the transition that caused some catestrophic barrel failures in the .40's.
Accuracy issues were fixed long ago...I haven't seen or heard of any newer production M&Ps with those issues...
From what I know, this is not true.
The barrels (as evident in the pic) have been dimensionally changed to make them stronger.
C4
vicious_cb
08-12-12, 01:39
Thats disappointing to hear, if they were going to change the barrel design they might as well have fixed the early unlocking issue while they were at it.
4thPointOfContact
08-13-12, 08:25
Stronger perhaps, easier to machine - definitely.
Is this accuracy issue also found in the .40S&W and .45ACP versions of the M&P also? :confused:
Is this accuracy issue also found in the .40S&W and .45ACP versions of the M&P also? :confused:
No. The .45 caliber M&P's are ridiculously accurate.
Is this accuracy issue also found in the .40S&W and .45ACP versions of the M&P also? :confused:
Actually haven't seen any problem from any of my MP's, whether it be my 9c's or 9fs. Also, my 40'c and fs and 45fs have been outstanding with all guns functioning as advertized from S&W!
No. The .45 caliber M&P's are ridiculously accurate.
x2 on this. My M&P 45 is far more accurate than I expected. I still dont like the trigger pull (I am a 1911 guy) but the gun flat out shoots straight. At 15 yards, I can put a box of ammo through one big jagged hole 4 inches across rapid fire. I dont know anyone who has had accuracy problems with the M&P. Other than the trigger, I wouldnt change a thing.
Production date for mine was mid 2011 if that makes a difference.
LightningFast
08-13-12, 17:09
I just bought a new production M&P 9 FS, so I'm curious to see if the accuracy is up to par. If not, I'll be trading it for a G19.
x2 on this. My M&P 45 is far more accurate than I expected. I still dont like the trigger pull (I am a 1911 guy) but the gun flat out shoots straight. At 15 yards, I can put a box of ammo through one big jagged hole 4 inches across rapid fire. I dont know anyone who has had accuracy problems with the M&P. Other than the trigger, I wouldnt change a thing.
Production date for mine was mid 2011 if that makes a difference.
I put an Apex FSS in my 45. Give it a try, very 1911-esque.
rodinal220
08-13-12, 17:49
What is your definition of long ago? My 2011 FDE 9FS shoots patterns, not groups beyond 15 yards. It went back to S&W once and was returned as "in-spec" with nothing done to it to fix the problem.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
I'm in the same boat. My Full Size(FS) M&P 9mm range kit has a mind of its own. The best I can do at 7 yards is about 4" with 115/124 fmj standard pressure factory ammo. After 7 yards things really open up and its pointless to shoot. I sometimes get vertical stringing and it prints low(2") during slow fire drills. I have not tried any 147gr ammo but have some factory stuff and some 147XTPs loaded.
My pistol was purchased in the spring of 2012,it has the new style barrel. I sent it back to S&W and they returned it in two weeks and said it was in-spec and no repairs needed.
The accuracy issue is with the Full Size 9mms only,Not the compacts,SHIELD,.40,.357 SIG or .45acp.
I have plenty of other 9mm platforms,SIG,Beretta,Glock,XD/XDm,H&K,1911 and a Chinese Tokarev #213.All shoot to point of aim and have acceptable levels of accuracy. I expect 3-4" at 25 yards with a service type handgun.Some guns and ammo provide better and some can shoot better than I can at 25 yards.
I shot both the full size 9mm and .45acp when M&P first came out. I liked the ergonomics,back strap options,sights and they were accurate. The ones I shot had terrible triggers,very gritty and stiff. My pistol does not exhibit grittiness but the trigger weighs 7lbs and has a distinctive "crunch".
I do not expect bullseye performance from a polymer framed striker fired service pistol. I however have seen some Glocks shoot exceptionally well in stock configuration in competent hands.
I do not feel I should have to buy APEX parts and a KKM barrel to "fix" what should be a decent product from an old firm like S&W.
My Ruger Old Army cap and ball revolver with out shoot my M&P,so will my Tokarev.
My new M&P9 and G19 both arrived back yesterday after getting RDS mounted and I was able to get down to the range for an hour, right before sunset to quickly sight in both of them. Mark Housel placed a 6.5 MOA RMR07 on the M&P9, while the G19 is sporting a 4 MOA H1 in a Unity Tactical ATOM mount; both have Ameriglow suppressor height BIS. Both have stock OEM barrels. The M&P9 has the Apex Duty Kit, the Glock an OEM "-" connector with stock trigger return spring; I strongly prefer the M&P trigger "feel".
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7954&filename=G19H1ATOM.jpg
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7955&filename=M&P9RMR07.jpg
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7956&filename=M&P9RMR_G19H1.jpg
At 25 yds using Federal 147 gr FMJ AE9FP training ammo, both pistols shot EXACTLY the same score on an NRA B8 bull when shot freehand, as shown on the targets below.
G19:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7957&filename=G19%20H1%2025%20yd.jpg
M&P9
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7958&filename=M&P9%20RMR%2025%20yd.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
08-19-12, 01:19
Hey, Doc.
Thanks for the post. How come you went with an Aimpoint on the G19?
Because we are experimenting with them. With the advent of the Unity Tactical ATOM mount, the micro-Aimpoint is now a viable and effective option for folks operating in adverse conditions--swimming, surf zone, dusty environments, snow/sleet/heavy rain, etc... that will kill other mRDS options. The only downside is the current lack of duty holsters for pistols with micro-Aimpoints. We have seen no major functional problems with our micro-Aimpoints (H1/T1).
As I have written before, for most CONUS CCW and LE duty/carry use, I still prefer the RMR02--works well and good holsters are available for RMR equipped pistols. We now have 30+ months continuous use on our original RMR02's with no significant problems and no-battery changes as yet. We recommend the NON-ADJUSTABLE RMR's (RMR01/RMR02) for duty/CCW handgun use. For a dedicated training pistol, the adjustable RMR-A's (RMR07/06) are useful as the dot can be turned off to practice using the BIS, however we have had MULTIPLE issues with the RMR-A's and limit them strictly for training/practice.
Note--Initially I liked a larger 6-8 MOA red dot on my slide mounted RDS. However, the more I shoot the handgun RDS, the more I am coming to appreciate a smaller dot. I've started experimenting with the 2-4 MOA dots on my training pistols and are starting to really like them, especially for longer range shooting.
Never mind...I missed that the OP had already seen the 10-8 Performance blog post on the new barrels.
Doc, thanks for the info. Can you explain your reasoning as to why you recommend the non adjustable for duty / CCW use?
Doc, thanks for the info. Can you explain your reasoning as to why you recommend the non adjustable for duty / CCW use?
Would like to know as well. Was considering an adjustable rmr but now second quessing.
mkmckinley
08-19-12, 12:16
Doc, Thanks for the information on long term use if the pistol RDS. There have been a bunch of posts to the effect of "hey look what I had done to my pistol" and not much followup on actual long term use. Feedback from a user like yourself is very valuable.
How do you like the ATOM mount? Would you recommend it over a RDS-specific install like the one on the M&P?
Doc, thanks for the info. Can you explain your reasoning as to why you recommend the non adjustable for duty / CCW use?
In his post he states they've had issues with the adjustable ones.
The ATOM mount is outstanding. Both set-ups work--just depends on whether you want the ability to easily switch out the optics...
As noted, the adjustable RMR's keep breaking, adjustments get inadvertently bumped, and battery life is less.
Great thread.
Thanks DocGKR and everyone else who contributed.
Citizen_soldier22
08-26-12, 22:02
I purchased an M&P 9 Pro series in December of last year, it has one of these "new" barrels. I've never had any accuracy issues with it as long as I'm doing my part. It's been through handgun courses and defensive pistol shoots.
This whole thing seems SO ridiculous, as S&W had no problem producing an accurate 9mm starting with the M39 one...
Hogsgunwild
08-27-12, 09:03
This whole thing seems SO ridiculous, as S&W had no problem producing an accurate 9mm starting with the M39 one...
It is amazing how bean-counters can influence quality. I would imagine this has been frustrating even for some of the S&W employees to have to watch.
It is amazing how bean-counters can influence quality. I would imagine this has been frustrating even for some of the S&W employees to have to watch.
Bean counters do play a role, but no in this instance IMHO.
This is a simple fact of using a reamer that they had on hand (which isn't really the big cause of the accuracy issues) and NOT holding the barrel hood and slide to exacting dims.
C4
And a testament to how trade/craft and skill sets can wander...
I'm ready to pull the trigger on an M&P9 (LE price is good-for the price it'll make a good travel gun), but I'm not too sure after reading this and other threads. And I don't want to drop $200 for an aftermarket barrel. C4IGrant, are they close to tightening up the accuracy issues at S&W?
I'm ready to pull the trigger on an M&P9 (LE price is good-for the price it'll make a good travel gun), but I'm not too sure after reading this and other threads. And I don't want to drop $200 for an aftermarket barrel. C4IGrant, are they close to tightening up the accuracy issues at S&W?
I really cannot say as I have not seen an example of it.
Remember that you COULD get one that is a shooter (5" or better).
C4
I have multiple SW M&P 's. I've not had any problems. I may take them all out shoot once again for groups. I do more fast shooting on steel and my have missed one in the wood pile. My Pro in 9 is dead nuts on.
Got me curious.
Just ran into a guy with two new MP 9s, one Pro and one VTAC. He thinks that they are very accurate.
I wonder if S&W has a fix to their accuracy problem on these 'new' guns...
Just ran into a guy with two new MP 9s, one Pro and one VTAC. He thinks that they are very accurate.
I wonder if S&W has a fix to their accuracy problem on these 'new' guns...
Could very well be (as the problem isn't with every gun). OR he is shooting at under 15yds.
Most people typically do not measure their groups and what looks "good enough" is actually a 5-6" group.
C4
This is a simple fact of using a reamer that they had on hand (which isn't really the big cause of the accuracy issues) and NOT holding the barrel hood and slide to exacting dims.
C4
Grant,
I was told by the S&W rep at my M&P armorers class that they had inadvertently rifled at least some of the barrels using a 38 special tool. Have you heard this? Seems like a variation on your reamer comment above.
ElyasWolff
09-16-12, 10:19
A co worker just sent his new M&P9 back because the chamber was too short. It would not chamber out duty ammo. He got in back with the new style barrel and it shoots pretty well.
Another problem seems to be lack of consistency in testing the pistols. Most don't post the necessary details that DocGKR and a few others do regarding sights used, distance, ammo, rest/no rest, et al.
I'm assuming that unless otherwise noted, the standards for testing M&P 9mm accuracy are:
-25 yards distance
-Pistol shot from a rest
Correct?
Pat
And a testament to how trade/craft and skill sets can wander...
This. Smart people don't stick around for bad taxes, regulations, and gun laws if they can avoid them, so it drives away talent as a result.
Do I understand correctly that the M&P 9 Compact does not, and never did have, an accuracy issue? I am far from the worlds best shot, but moderate paced fire at 25 yards I can get a 3-4" group with most any quality handgun. I would hate to buy a pistol that isn't mechanically more sound than this.
Do I understand correctly that the M&P 9 Compact does not, and never did have, an accuracy issue? I am far from the worlds best shot, but moderate paced fire at 25 yards I can get a 3-4" group with most any quality handgun. I would hate to buy a pistol that isn't mechanically more sound than this.
Shorter barrels tend to shoot better than longer ones. So while the compacts have the same issues with barrel fit, it won't be as visible IMHO.
C4
RockBottom
09-27-12, 23:48
Shorter barrels tend to shoot better than longer ones. So while the compacts have the same issues with barrel fit, it won't be as visible IMHO.
C4
Ok, if shorter barrels shoot better than longer ones why do competition shooters choose longer barrels? Is it because the better sight radius more than makes up for the (slightly?) less accurate longer barrel?
Ok, if shorter barrels shoot better than longer ones why do competition shooters choose longer barrels? Is it because the better sight radius more than makes up for the (slightly?) less accurate longer barrel?
A longer barrel/ slide means less felt recoil, longer sight radius, more velocity (make major with a softer load) and more reliable feeding as the longer slide travel give your magazine springs more time to feed the next round.
A short barrel is by its nature, stiffer, which is why you often see 20" bolt guns grouping better at short range than 26"+ ones. The longer they are, the easier they can flex.
RockBottom
09-29-12, 01:03
A longer barrel/ slide means less felt recoil, longer sight radius, more velocity (make major with a softer load) and more reliable feeding as the longer slide travel give your magazine springs more time to feed the next round.
A short barrel is by its nature, stiffer, which is why you often see 20" bolt guns grouping better at short range than 26"+ ones. The longer they are, the easier they can flex.
Thanks!
I just picked up a lightly used M&P9c, made 12/21/11. Hopefully, it'll group. 25 yard targets are a reality, so a combat weapon has to perform. Hope this M&P's up to the task.
There have been a number of older M&P9fs (pre-summer 2012) that were not sufficiently accurate beyond 15 yds; that has never been reported as a consistent problem with the M&P9c.
Are there enough reports of recent manufacture FS MP's that provide confidence of accuracy?
There have been a number of older M&P9fs (pre-summer 2012) that were not sufficiently accurate beyond 15 yds; that has never been reported as a consistent problem with the M&P9c.
After much thought, I have decided to take your advice on the M&P9c. I will change from 2:30 to 4:30 and go with the non-slide safety version. I just don't want to add that to my manual of arms. If I get the weapon into play and on target, I want there to be 0 reason for it to NOT go "bang" when I press the trigger.
I can take a P226 down to the literal last roll-pin. Is there any reason I should not be able to install any of the APEX parts if after a few thousand rounds the trigger of the M&P doesn't suit me? (special tools, torque settings for something, I don't know?)
After much thought, I have decided to take your advice on the M&P9c. I will change from 2:30 to 4:30 and go with the non-slide safety version. I just don't want to add that to my manual of arms. If I get the weapon into play and on target, I want there to be 0 reason for it to NOT go "bang" when I press the trigger.
I can take a P226 down to the literal last roll-pin. Is there any reason I should not be able to install any of the APEX parts if after a few thousand rounds the trigger of the M&P doesn't suit me? (special tools, torque settings for something, I don't know?)
Roll pin punch or the takedown tool and a hammer.
That is all you need...oh and half of a brain.
Roll pin punch or the takedown tool and a hammer.
That is all you need...oh and half of a brain.
G2G, then. Has it been the general consensus that the OEM trigger is just fine once it wears in, or is the APEX kindof a "must have"?
G2G, then. Has it been the general consensus that the OEM trigger is just fine once it wears in, or is the APEX kindof a "must have"?
The only must have is that the gun goes bang.
Trigger quality and characteristics are entirely subjective.
Statistically most people regard the Apex trigger components as being a huge upgrade over stock but the alteration from the stock feel is not "perfect" for everyone.
I posted this I another thread, but my new 9c (born on date of 5/7/12) is NOT accurate.
I had it out the other day with my M&P 45. The 45 is 2-3" at 25 yards. The compact is 9-11". All from a sand bag on a bench.
I half expected this so I'm only somewhat disappointed but obviously I would prefer it to be a better shooter.
M&P accuracy in my experience - sample of 3:
9L, 2011 vintage is stupid accurate. It is my most accurate 9mm by a wide margin. It shoots better than my P210.
45 FS, 2007 vintage is sub 2" gun, but prefers lighter bullets, 185/200 vs 230.
40 FS, 2009 vintage has been problematic. Haven't been able to break 2.5" with the .40 barrel. It shoots a little better with a factory .357 SIG barrel, but not as good as I expect from a 357 SIG. A new 2012 vintage factory threaded 9mm barrel has shown some promise, but I need to wring it out some more.
I posted this I another thread, but my new 9c (born on date of 5/7/12) is NOT accurate.
I had it out the other day with my M&P 45. The 45 is 2-3" at 25 yards. The compact is 9-11". All from a sand bag on a bench.
I half expected this so I'm only somewhat disappointed but obviously I would prefer it to be a better shooter.
That sucks.
Is there any concealable pistol that ISN'T famous for sucking?
I am starting to look at the H&K and Walther line-up. PPQ and P2000 and such.
Hogsgunwild
10-03-12, 01:31
That sucks.
Is there any concealable pistol that ISN'T famous for sucking?
I am starting to look at the H&K and Walther line-up. PPQ and P2000 and such.
As much as I think that my HK P2000 .40 S&W w/ light LEM was a great gun (very accurate and always reliable) I feel that it is old bath water compared to my PPQs. Nothing wrong with the HK but everything (trigger, ergonomics, accuracy, weight) is more refined / evolved on my PPQs.
I think the PPQ is great. But a light trigger like that makes me want a TS.
Also, I know SOME have had occasional issues with the huge slide stop. Premature slide lock. I would not want to get 400 rds through it and see it happen to me. Slide releases are useless to me, and having two huge ones is not a good feature.
Just like it took me a few hundred rounds through a G19 Gen 4 to figure out I'm a "Glock Bite" guy.
This is from the ask the SME (LAV) section of this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Vickers View Post
So far thumbs up with the PPQ- accurate, reliable, and the best trigger on any striker fired gun on the market
The PPQ has all the makings of being a winner
LAV
I understand the PPQ striker is fully cocked after each cycle (like the springfield XD), while the Glock and S&W MP are not, and the trigger action completes a significant amount of cocking before each shot is fired. The XD has a grip safety, the PPQ does not. The PPQ/XD triggers pulls weights are entirely due to the trigger and disconnector springs, and after you move the little glock-like lever in the face of the trigger it is basically a long travel single action with FP safety.
The fully cocked pistols should have a better trigger pull, you only have to move the FP safety and release the sear.
It seems to me the "partially cocked" striker actions are inherently safer, but is there any real advantage or disadvantage in real life use of one compared to the other?
Reply With Quote
****************************************************************************************
I have heard the PPQ'S slides and barrels are sorted and matched up at the factory for the best fit. Also, when dry firing my PPQ and Glock pistols side by side I notice virtually no movement or front sight twitch after the break with my 5 lb. pull PPQ, compared to my 5 lb. Glock trigger which has quite a bit more front sight movement or twitch.
It looks like the PPQ is a winner to me, especially considering the price. I really just want something I can take out of the box, put a ton of rounds through, and never modify anything on or run into "an issue" that requires an aftermarket extractor or custom barrel or some BS to fix. I don't want the Mona Lisa. I just want something that keeps them all in a 3" circle at 25 yards and goes "Bang" each and every time I ask it to. That used to be a Glock 19. Not anymore, apparently, based on what I have experienced first hand, and what I have read.
I'm getting frustrated.
I get set to buy an M&P, and then some guy posts up that experience. Yes, it's just the internet, but you know what? Poo Poo it all you want, I have experienced most internet failures I read about. From the blown rear-end in my 2001 Trans Am to the Glock 19 that spit brass at my face, so I take it serious when I read on multiple forums about the same bloody problem. It would have saved me a lot of annoyance to have done so previously.
Is there a Glock 19 sized handgun with a single-weight trigger pull (LEM, Striker, doesn't matter to me, I just don't want to train the DA/SA thing) in 9mm that is dead-nuts reliable, accurate enough to keep them in a 3" circle at 25 with ammo it likes, doesn't have any annoying quirks like throwing brass in your eyes, and priced under $700?
It looks like the PPQ is a winner to me, especially considering the price. I really just want something I can take out of the box, put a ton of rounds through, and never modify anything on or run into "an issue" that requires an aftermarket extractor or custom barrel or some BS to fix. I don't want the Mona Lisa. I just want something that keeps them all in a 3" circle at 25 yards and goes "Bang" each and every time I ask it to. That used to be a Glock 19. Not anymore, apparently, based on what I have experienced first hand, and what I have read.
I'm getting frustrated.
I get set to buy an M&P, and then some guy posts up that experience. Yes, it's just the internet, but you know what? Poo Poo it all you want, I have experienced most internet failures I read about. From the blown rear-end in my 2001 Trans Am to the Glock 19 that spit brass at my face, so I take it serious when I read on multiple forums about the same bloody problem. It would have saved me a lot of annoyance to have done so previously.
Is there a Glock 19 sized handgun with a single-weight trigger pull (LEM, Striker, doesn't matter to me, I just don't want to train the DA/SA thing) in 9mm that is dead-nuts reliable, accurate enough to keep them in a 3" circle at 25 with ammo it likes, doesn't have any annoying quirks like throwing brass in your eyes, and priced under $700?
I guess in around 3 1/2 months we will see if H&K introduces a striker
fired P30 type pistol at SHOT. If they give it a decent PPQ type trigger along with the H&K's durability, accuracy and build quality, it should be an instant hit. IMHO, it would basically be H&K's version of the PPQ, with probably less muzzle flip and a few other differences. The HK's price tag of coarse would be higher. If they do introduce a P30 type SF gun and if it uses the same mags, they can be had right now for just $30 each at a few places.
Or you could just buy an older G19. People sell used ones all the time. Just sayin'. Good luck.
Hogsgunwild
10-03-12, 18:46
I think the PPQ is great. But a light trigger like that makes me want a TS.
Also, I know SOME have had occasional issues with the huge slide stop. Premature slide lock. I would not want to get 400 rds through it and see it happen to me. Slide releases are useless to me, and having two huge ones is not a good feature.
Just like it took me a few hundred rounds through a G19 Gen 4 to figure out I'm a "Glock Bite" guy.
I agree about wanting the thumb safety. Love my PPQs but I have not ditched my M&Ps due to possibility of having a thumb safety on a carry gun in the future.
The PPQ slide releases have never affected me adversely, even once that I can remember.
I guess in around 3 1/2 months we will see if H&K introduces a striker
fired P30 type pistol at SHOT. If they give it a decent PPQ type trigger along with the H&K's durability, accuracy and build quality, it should be an instant hit. IMHO, it would basically be H&K's version of the PPQ with less muzzle flip and other subtle differences. The HK's price tag of coarse would be higher. If they do introduce a P30 type SF gun and if it uses the same mags, they can be had right now for just $30 each.
Why pay HK prices when the PPQ is already available for less money?
It looks like the PPQ is a winner to me, especially considering the price. I really just want something I can take out of the box, put a ton of rounds through, and never modify anything on or run into "an issue" that requires an aftermarket extractor or custom barrel or some BS to fix. I don't want the Mona Lisa. I just want something that keeps them all in a 3" circle at 25 yards and goes "Bang" each and every time I ask it to. That used to be a Glock 19. Not anymore, apparently, based on what I have experienced first hand, and what I have read.
I'm getting frustrated.
I get set to buy an M&P, and then some guy posts up that experience. Yes, it's just the internet, but you know what? Poo Poo it all you want, I have experienced most internet failures I read about. From the blown rear-end in my 2001 Trans Am to the Glock 19 that spit brass at my face, so I take it serious when I read on multiple forums about the same bloody problem. It would have saved me a lot of annoyance to have done so previously.
Is there a Glock 19 sized handgun with a single-weight trigger pull (LEM, Striker, doesn't matter to me, I just don't want to train the DA/SA thing) in 9mm that is dead-nuts reliable, accurate enough to keep them in a 3" circle at 25 with ammo it likes, doesn't have any annoying quirks like throwing brass in your eyes, and priced under $700?
That's honestly the only complaint is have ever seen about M&P 9c accuracy. Mine is accurate, but I've never shot it at 25 yards. I wouldn't drop it from consideration based on one report. There are many more reports here of good accuracy with the 9c.
That's honestly the only complaint is have ever seen about M&P 9c accuracy. Mine is accurate, but I've never shot it at 25 yards. I wouldn't drop it from consideration based on one report. There are many more reports here of good accuracy with the 9c.
This is why i suspect most people dont report accuracy issues with the compact. Mine is "accurate" enough at ten yards but 25 is the metric were are using.
I also wouldn't rule out the compact because it is a CCW gun. For me the m&p line has a lot of advantages; ergonomics and the option for a ts being the biggest. After market support also.
Hogsgunwild
10-03-12, 20:15
Why pay HK prices when the PPQ is already available for less money?
This is true. If the H&K had a configuration that was appealing to me that included a thumb safety, it would be worthy of renting and then possibly buying to wring it out.
Why pay HK prices when the PPQ is already available for less money?
Your right. I think the HK will probably have somewhat less muzzle flip than the PPQ, but other than that, I can't see the SF HK having a better trigger or accuracy than the PPQ. If I had to speculate on the durability, I would pick the H&K. If a striker fired HK pistol happens, choosing between it and the PPQ will just come down to ones personal preferences in different areas, like the trigger,sights,controls,ergos, price, etc.
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
Seriously?!?!? Open up your mind. How about Ken Hammond, Uppson Downes, Andy Brown, etc...
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
^ :confused:
* Training on Range Days is Preparation for "The Day(s)"
"Train as you fight - Fight as you train"
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
I actually shoot at 50 to 100yds all the time. Why? Because it sure is nice to know that I can do it (if needed).
It is better to have a skill set and not need it then to need a skill set and not have it.
C4
I actually shoot at 50 to 100yds all the time. Why? Because it sure is nice to know that I can do it (if needed).
It is better to have a skill set and not need it then to need a skill set and not have it.
C4
Amen. I hear people argue that accuracy at extended ranges is not important because of the short distances most self defense shootings take place at. Is there some golden rule of the unknown universe that dictated I will only and always be attacked at 10 yards or less? A pistol not being able to put a group together at 25yards ( mecanicaly speaking )is downright unacceptable.
TriumphRat675
10-04-12, 11:13
Tom Givens has a statistically significant number of students who have had to make pistol shots on assailants from the 15 - 25 yard range. Rare, but it happens.
Teaching myself how to shoot at a range where 25 yards was the only available option was a tremendous learning experience and paid dividends once I started shooting at other ranges.
I actually shoot at 50 to 100yds all the time. Why? Because it sure is nice to know that I can do it (if needed).
It is better to have a skill set and not need it then to need a skill set and not have it.
C4
Is this with an M&P with stock barrel? And what size targets? 8"?
If I ever get to a range that is long enough, I wouldn't mind training that too.
So far my M&P9 seems to shoot within the center circle of an IDPA target out to 25 yards if I apply the right hold. I have Ameriglo sights and they are set for 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards, same as the factory sights so as I do drills at 7, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards, I am holding my sights lower and lower to get hits within circle. I am not going for headshots at 25 yards so my accuracy standards may not be as high as others here.
What hold do you use for 50 and 100 yards? I'm sorry I have not figured out how to use a ballistic calculator yet. I shoot 124 gr Speer Lawman.
Best regards,
Jim
Is this with an M&P with stock barrel? And what size targets? 8"?
No as my factory M&P 9mm barrel shot MINUTE OF BARN!
This is what am using: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104659
So far my M&P9 seems to shoot within the center circle of an IDPA target out to 25 yards if I apply the right hold. I have Ameriglo sights and they are set for 6 o'clock hold at 25 yards, same as the factory sights so as I do drills at 7, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards, I am holding my sights lower and lower to get hits within circle. I am not going for headshots at 25 yards so my accuracy standards may not be as high as others here.
You need to shoot off a rest and see for sure what your gun is doing at 25yds. I like to use four groups (with 5rds in each group).
What hold do you use for 50 and 100 yards? I'm sorry I have not figured out how to use a ballistic calculator yet. I shoot 124 gr Speer Lawman.
Best regards,
Jim
I have shot a 2.5" group (off a rest) at 50yds. Could have shot SUB 2" if I had better ammo I think.
Typically speaking, I hold center mass at 50yds and couple inches high at 100yds.
C4
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
A friend of mine made a legit shot on a suspect with a gun at 171' while on duty. We shoot at a 10" plate at 150' just for confidence that we can do it if needed.
That being said.....my brand new M&P9 is shooting minute of barn at 75' offhand right now. I need to find a rest and re-shoot it.
Hogsgunwild
10-06-12, 07:44
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
Years ago, one of my favorite things to practice was shooting handguns at the 300 yard gong at Rio Salado range in Mesa. Although using 10MMs and .44 Magnums makes the hits more common, I have made hits with all types of smaller weapons including a 340PD and Glock 23.
The .454 Casul that I used to own was the only handgun that made the task almost easy, but, shooting the others was always time well spent in honing your trigger control as well as all of the fundamentals.
Shooting the smaller guns is way too inconsistent to be of any value for regular practice but it is very interesting to find out what various handguns and calibers can do.
I think that there is value in being familiar with the use of Kentucky windage, at least out to 100 to 150 yards.
Just another tool in the toolbox.
25 yard practice allows all of the basic fundamentals for precision shootig to be honed so that you shoot better at any range and any speed. 25 yards practice is an excellent diagnostic tool as you see the flaws in your shooting that you may barely or not even notice at 10 or 15 yards. It is amazing how a majority of the people at your typical shooting range never shoot past 20 or 30 feet. For a long time, I recall 15 yards being my standard practice range. It wasn't until I took a real training course that 25 yards became my standard range for practice.
Traveshamockery
10-06-12, 12:26
Who the **** shoots pistols at 25 yards for anything other than range day?
25 yards isn't that far.
A 25 yard shot could have saved a bunch of lives in Aurora recently.
friendlyfireisnt
10-06-12, 15:29
Been watching this topic with interest, since I was getting ready to purchase a new M&P 9mm, which I did about 2 weeks ago. Mine was made in June 2012.
Just got back from the range, did most of my shooting at 5-10 yards, but did shoot a couple groups @ 15 yards and 1 group at 25 yards.
The bad news is that I am not the best shot. I put 4 rounds into 3.5" @ 25 yards, but shanked the 5th (actually first shot), sending it about 6" low. At 15 yards, a 5-shot group was about 3", with 4 being in under 2". I would have done another group at 25 yards, but that was the lat 5 rounds I had.
The good news is that the pistol appears not to have any accuracy issues, and is much more accurate than I am.
ETA: Should have mentioned, this off hand with 124gr Blazer aluminum.
A friend of mine made a legit shot on a suspect with a gun at 171' while on duty. We shoot at a 10" plate at 150' just for confidence that we can do it if needed.
That being said.....my brand new M&P9 is shooting minute of barn at 75' offhand right now. I need to find a rest and re-shoot it.
Alright, installed an Apex DCAEK and RAM and re-shot today with my FS 9.
I shot this at 10yds, 17rds, fairly rapid fire, resetting back to a compressed high ready after each shot. Nothing spectacular and it's not my PPQ, but it works. I started in the low left and started coming back on target towards the end. It has a little more travel than I'm used to and clearly I need to get back to my fundamentals, but a few more range sessions and I should be back on target.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/cslone/20121010_102815.jpg
This was at 73'(the farthest the target would go for some reason). I did the old patrol car hood style shooting where I rested my hands on the bench and shot. This is a 4" target.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/cslone/20121010_101909.jpg
So it looks like my gun is working well. I just need to shoot at 75' more. Test date of 8-14-12
No as my factory M&P 9mm barrel shot MINUTE OF BARN!
C4
Grant, how are their threaded barrels supposed to be. Mine seems to shoot OK. Who makes their threaded barrels?
Pick up my new m&p9 pro today. Mine looks like the 2012 one. It should since it was manufatured 07/2012.
I love mine and expect you will live yours too. Awesome gun for the money.
Grant, how are their threaded barrels supposed to be. Mine seems to shoot OK. Who makes their threaded barrels?
They make their threaded barrels.
C4
Psalms144.1
10-24-12, 10:43
WRT long-range pistol practice, my old team used to finish every training day with a magazine or two of 9mm NATO ball on a Pepper Popper at the 100 yard line with our G19s. 10 out of 15 hits was considered acceptable, and I shot 14/15 a couple of times and 13 more often than not. Anyone who hit less than 8 was in for some extra PT - "Pain Retains" as the Gunny who was our NCOIC used to say... OBTW, that was shot off hand, or with a "hasty" brace against a vertical pole at most.
I've also seen a really talented shooter put 17/17 round in a 20" or so circle at the 200 yard line one day - shooting prone slow fire.
Bottom line - long range handgunning is a useful skill - we frequently didn't have the luxury of access to long guns, so, if things got really bad with a shooter at range, we had to be able to make our pistols work for us.
Regards,
Kevin
warpedcamshaft
11-15-12, 23:05
Figured I would chime in with a little bit more data.
Got my hands on a recently purchased M&P 9mm full size. It has the newer style barrel (with the slanted front).. I'm not precisely sure of the date of manufacture, but it was purchased within the last couple of weeks.
I spent some range time firing 25 yard offhand groups and the results seemed poor with the 115 gr loads I was using.
Long story short, I busted out a pistol rest and fired several types of ammunition for groups at 25 yards to see if I was losing my touch! Here were my approximate findings based on firing from the bench with multiple 5 shot groups:
115 Gr FMJ Winchester: 8 inches
124 Gr +p Nato: 7 inches
124 Gr FMJ Standard Pressure Generic Remanufactured Ammo: 5 inches
147 Gr American Eagle FMJ: 5 inches
124 Gr mid powered handloads (Berry's Bullets 124 Gr. Flatpoint plated): 2 3/4 inches
The Glock 17 I was using for comparison averaged around 3 inches with all ammo tried.
warpedcamshaft
11-16-12, 00:28
I will also add that the larger groups seemed to display disproportionately more vertical dispersion than horizontal dispersion.
Heavy and slow. The S&W formulae ..:happy:
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