View Full Version : Can someone stake my LMT carriers for me?
I'm willing to pay...apparently local gun stores don't have a MOACKS
Thanks-
Inkslinger
08-11-12, 10:38
Go to Lowes, buy a spring loaded center punch and do it yourself. Piece o cake.
Yea I have one but it's not yielding desirable results, more of just dicking it up. I would prefer uniformity on my gas key, castle nut I don't care so much...
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decodeddiesel
08-11-12, 11:52
That's odd, every LMT bolt carrier I have ever owned (4 by my count) was staked properly. Albeit, I have not purchased one since 2009 however. Did LMT stop staking their carriers?
Terlingueno
08-11-12, 11:56
I went ahead and purchased a Brownells staking tool because some people were reluctant or chose not to provide staking services.
A little difficult to find someone to stake the gas key so I just bought my own MOACKS to stake the gas key on my Stag. Highly unusual for an LMT to not be properly staked.
A little off topic, but are current LMT gas keys MIM or have they went back to the conventional manufacturing process type key?
decodeddiesel
08-11-12, 12:58
A little off topic, but are current LMT gas keys MIM or have they went back to the conventional manufactured process type key?
A quick note about that so as to not pull this thread too far off topic...
I have been using an LMT Auto BCG (with the MIM key) in my MK18 clone for about 3 years now, and I have a right around 12,000 rounds through the rifle. The part shows no signs of fatigue (or for that matter stress) induced cracking. Sample of one, YMMV, etc.
The thing is I have been studying many of the MIM processes for manufacturing parts being a Mechanical Engineering student. Honestly I think that if the design and manufacturing people at LMT have determined it is a non-issue using MIM for the gas keys I honestly think it's a non-issue for us. People like to think MIM is some sort of pot-metal garbage and it's just not the case. I can say honestly in my "somewhat-more-qualified-opinion-than-most" given my education, using MIM for a gas key is a just not an issue.
Obviously if YOU think it's an issue, spend your money as you see fit.
Blankwaffe
08-11-12, 15:02
Ive just been using the top stake method outined in the -23&P....have seen no issues.Very simple to do with a hammer and center punch.
ETA
Was going to link to the -23&P in the Basic PM thread here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35490
....but the links to manual pdf's are bad.
Beat Trash
08-11-12, 18:02
Stupid question time, only because I don't know.
Does the gas key being MIM effect the ability to properly stake the part?
I have a MOACKS & if anybody needs staking done, I will do it for you n/c: just cover the return shipping.
PM me if interested.
I've also got a MOACKS and will stake if anyone needs it done.
As far as LMT not staking, the last 2 I bought from DSG were not staked at all. I thought it odd, staked them myself and drove on. I have no idea if they were a fluke, a bad batch, or their current practice. I never asked LMT or called DSG. As I don't post many pics I never brought it up here as many would scream for pics or start questioning everything from my motives, to my integrity, to my knowledge, to my heritage!
Nightvisionary
08-11-12, 20:09
Stupid question time, only because I don't know.
Does the gas key being MIM effect the ability to properly stake the part?
That has me wondering as well. I just ordered a BCM bolt carrier group yesterday after considering the LMT BCG. I found pictures of LMT gas keys manufactured using the MIM process. It showed cracking where the gas key was staked and several others reported the identical issue with their LMT MIM gas keys. I wonder if LMT now uses another method.
You witnessed a perfectly normal occurance when dealing with MIM parts....
http://i51.tinypic.com/r8b5mf.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/28lw180.jpg
If your worried about your MIM gas key in your rifle, than don't ever fly in an Airplane....
"Giant A380 Airbus takes off using tiny Metal Injection Moulded (MIM) parts
1st Jan, 2008 to 1st Jan, 2010
The giant double-decker Airbus A380 airliner went into commercial service with Singapore Airlines in October 2007 flying from Singapore to Sydney, Australia.
The first Metal Injection Moulded (MIM) parts to be used in the Airbus family, including the A380, are tiny microswitch arm parts produced from 316L stainless steel by Metal Injection Mouldings Ltd located in Altrincham, near Manchester, UK. A pair of these MIM components replace 22 existing parts on a de-icing valve, previously made for the A320 aircraft.
The use of MIM parts considerably reduced the cost of purchasing, stocking, controlling and assembling these units at Airbus."
Nightvisionary
08-11-12, 21:03
You witnessed a perfectly normal occurance when dealing with MIM parts....
http://i51.tinypic.com/r8b5mf.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/28lw180.jpg
If your worried about your MIM gas key in your rifle, than don't ever fly in an Airplane....
"Giant A380 Airbus takes off using tiny Metal Injection Moulded (MIM) parts
1st Jan, 2008 to 1st Jan, 2010
The giant double-decker Airbus A380 airliner went into commercial service with Singapore Airlines in October 2007 flying from Singapore to Sydney, Australia.
The first Metal Injection Moulded (MIM) parts to be used in the Airbus family, including the A380, are tiny microswitch arm parts produced from 316L stainless steel by Metal Injection Mouldings Ltd located in Altrincham, near Manchester, UK. A pair of these MIM components replace 22 existing parts on a de-icing valve, previously made for the A320 aircraft.
The use of MIM parts considerably reduced the cost of purchasing, stocking, controlling and assembling these units at Airbus."
Well I for one hate flying and prefer not to have MIM parts in my AR or my Airbus.:D
Come on! You can't tell me this LMT MIM gas key is acceptable.
http://i45.tinypic.com/1erl1t.jpg
Failure2Stop
08-11-12, 22:48
Well I for one hate flying and prefer not to have MIM parts in my AR or my Airbus.:D
Come on! You can't tell me this LMT MIM gas key is acceptable.
http://i45.tinypic.com/1erl1t.jpg
Any amplifying information on that picture?
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
decodeddiesel
08-11-12, 23:39
If your worried about your MIM gas key in your rifle, than don't ever fly in an Airplane....
MIM is a very valid, and often used manufacturing technique. It does not somehow turn the part into garbage. It, like any other material has very specific and quantifiable material properties. If the stresses encountered by the part (relatively easy to calculate/measure) are below the critical values such as yield strength, fatigue strength, etc. then with a high certainty, it can be assumed that the part will not fail.
Well I for one hate flying and prefer not to have MIM parts in my AR or my Airbus.:D
Come on! You can't tell me this LMT MIM gas key is acceptable.
http://i45.tinypic.com/1erl1t.jpg
There is nothing in that picture that would deadline an M4 as per the TM that I used as a unit armorer.
Magic_Salad0892
08-11-12, 23:41
Okay... welcome to 4 years ago...
When I got my LMT Enhanced carriers they were staked.
Why weren't the current ones?
Nightvision, that's an interesting photo. Any more info about it?
Blankwaffe
08-11-12, 23:58
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38508&highlight=cracked+stake&page=3
justin_247
08-12-12, 01:05
Are you sure you have an LMT carrier?
Nightvisionary
08-12-12, 21:43
Any amplifying information on that picture?
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Blankwaffe posted a link to the thread here. That was also mirrored on the other site. There are lots of first hand issues being reported if you google LMT MIM gas keys. One from TOS http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1229613 has posts from a dealer that had several of the LMT BCG's returned by customer's reporting gas key issues with the LMT MIM gas key.
I just stumbled across all this Friday after researching BCG's. Bravo Company had thier BCG as well as LMT's in stock on their site. The LMT was $20 cheaper so I did a little research. I ordered the BCM.
Blankwaffe
08-13-12, 03:33
Blankwaffe posted a link to the thread here. That was also mirrored on the other site. There are lots of first hand issues being reported if you google LMT MIM gas keys. One from TOS http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1229613 has posts from a dealer that had several of the LMT BCG's returned by customer's reporting gas key issues with the LMT MIM gas key.
I just stumbled across all this Friday after researching BCG's. Bravo Company had thier BCG as well as LMT's in stock on their site. The LMT was $20 cheaper so I did a little research. I ordered the BCM.
Since Im playing records clerk,here is a few more threads on the subject:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104229&highlight=MIM%2A
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=76465&highlight=MIM%2A&page=2
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71760&highlight=MIM%2A
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=88552&highlight=MIM%2A
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32332&highlight=MIM%2A
As I noted in most of the threads above,I now have a few of the LMT BCG's that have the MIM gas key.One of which has exceeded 5K already....no issues.
Now I did receive one LMT BCG recently that was similar to the one previously pictured which was suspect in my mind.I went as far as to make a moderate attempt at displacing the material that cracked around the stake.I suspected that the metal bits involved would displace easily and was concerned the pieces would end up in the action if they did.Using a spring loaded punch I attempted to force the cracked stake egress.To my suprise the cracked material did not budge or worsen.Seems the material is wedged in place.
Other than resorting to more force with hammer and punch and going as far as actually removing the gas key screws I did not see that the cracked stakes/material would have any issues.
That said I do not like the sharp points at the top of the splits in the staking,so I simply file the tops off the stake which also removed most of the crack.As a note the gas keys are hard(gauged by my file) and the material displaced in the stake is a bit in excess, which is probably why the cracks developed.Ive seen non-MIM gas keys do the same when the material was forced beyond elasticity.
To further note,I personally prefer and use the field top stake as outlined in the -23&P,and is what I use if keys are replaced.I think side stakes are not as sound due to the fact the thinnest part of the key is involved,and top staking provides additional staking point.To speculate further,maybe LMT should consider this method with the MIM key.But thats my opinions and preferences.
Anyway,Im not willing to experiment and disassemble a working carrier for research of this beyond my trivial tinkering about,but maybe Grant or someone with a larger parts resource can and expand on the possibility of failure.
Otherwise, beyond complaints of cracked staking Ive yet to see a report of a actual parts failure with the MIM gas key.
Do I like and prefer the MIM gas key? No I don't.
But until I see a documented failure reported I will continue to use and buy LMT BCG's.
Blankwaffe
08-13-12, 03:57
Here is the mother of all LMT MIM gas key threads added for prosperity:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/446576__ARCHIVED_THREAD____New_LMT_BCG__MIM_gas_key.html&page=1
OP, I will help you. Send me an e-mail.
C4
Thanks, All, for the replies and info.
Thanks for those old threads which have good info.
Well I feel foolish; I posted this before I had the carrier in my possession because I've read they are not staked. This one is:
http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac074e7-a994-2e66.jpg
Grant and others, thank you. Grant, I did need a quote on something else though, a URX 3 install. PM inbound.
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Hey it happens to all of us, at least you had the cajones to admit you made a mistake.
However i do think this deserves a Tactical Facepalm!
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Jason_Prisbrey/Tactical_Facepalm.jpg
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