View Full Version : Desert Tactical Arms - Stealth Recon Scout Review (DTA SRS)
Just wrapped up a review.
You guys have heard me run the DTA name around for a couple years now. They are hands-down the best precision rifle on the market, in my opinion.
If you haven't played with one... you owe it to yourself to try it out. If any of you are in my area, I can arrange a shoot.
http://www.primalrights.com/forum/review.php?a=5652
ICANHITHIMMAN
08-11-12, 22:07
Nice write up wish it was in my price range. It looks very comforatable to me.
fallenromeo
08-13-12, 10:28
love the DTA, wish I could afford one.
The Surgeon
08-15-12, 19:47
They are a damn nice rifle. But I am not fully sold on them yet. Nothing to do with the rifle itself, I just like the traditional A-Bolt. Of course at one time I didn't like synthetic stocks. Now I absolutely love them. I sure would like to shoot a DTA though. Of course if I were to shoot one I might end up sleeping in the "Dog House" for a month or two. LOL:lol:
Very informative review. Question: what are advantages/disadvantages to the bullpup bolt action manual of arms compared to the conventional bolt action?
The bullpup moves the action back toward the shooter. This does 2 things immediately.
1) Creates a much more balanced system by bringing the weight back toward you instead of out toward the muzzle.
2) Gives you the ability to run a longer barrel, yet maintain a short OAL. Longer barrel means more performance downrange, without the movement/maneuverability penalty that usually comes with long barrels.
Another huge benefit of the chassis is that it has no "bedding" or v-block to worry about. The chassis is the action. When combined with a single-piece scope mount, you effectively remove 2 distinct points of failure when compared to a traditional bolt action.
BrigandTwoFour
08-15-12, 23:20
How awkward is the bolt handle to manipulate in that configuration?
It seems like it would be slower than the traditional up and back motion. But, then again, the point of rifles like these is not the rate of fire- so that's probably a moot point.
Iraq Ninja
08-15-12, 23:30
I have followed the idea since its inception.
Honestly, I fail to see the true need for the system, though I would love to find one. Seems to be in a continuing uphill battle in terms of acceptance, though it is a quality product.
It's not awkward at all. It will be when you first start shooting one. Especially if you are expert with a normal bolt throw. However, after a couple hundred rounds you don't even notice.
I can run the bolt on a SRS without breaking cheek weld or sight picture. I can fire a shot at a 1000yd target, cycle the bolt, and be back up in time to see the hit.
The bolt being back closer to you, actually ends up being faster and more natural than a traditional bolt gun. You don't have something coming back toward your face, instead something is coming beneath and beside it. :)
Honestly, I fail to see the true need for the system, though I would love to find one. Seems to be in a continuing uphill battle in terms of acceptance, though it is a quality product.
How is a more balanced, shorter rifle with equal range a bad thing?
There is currently a 6 week wait time on these rifles. It's not a battle for acceptance at all. I've used every weapon system available in the United States when it comes to precision rifles. The DTA is beyond them all when it comes to portability and shootability.
Carry a AIAW with suppressor and kit around for a few days. Then try the same with a DTA and tell me there is no need for the system.
Iraq Ninja
08-16-12, 23:43
How is a more balanced, shorter rifle with equal range a bad thing?
When it is a bolt action and you have to engage multiple targets quickly. That is why the trend is towards the semi autos overseas. The concept is probably more valid for LEOs, but how often will they need such a long range gun?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea but don't want one till they make it for us lefties...
We're really talking about two very separate things here. Semi-auto vs bolt gun is not even worth discussing as they are for two distinctly different roles. Semi-auto is and has been the "trend" everywhere... not just overseas. This is for obvious reasons. However, the longest recorded sniper shots in history are predominately held by bolt guns. This isn't accidental or anecdotal.
You ever see a semi-auto 338LM? I have, and it's a PIG. Extremely long and not easy to tote around.
Why are you so intent on defining the roles you see the rifle filling, and then explaining why it won't fill them?
There is a need for a lightweight and portable long range weapon system. If you don't see that, it doesn't make it less true. This system shines in 7WSM, 300WM, 338LM, and other chamberings that thrive on barrel length. It is in this category that the bullpup configuration beats out the competition.
In regard to LEO applications... the DTA SRS Covert provides a 16" 308 switch-barrel platform with about the same footprint as an MP5 except with much greater range and accuracy. The sub-moa accuracy, mobility, conceal-ability, and versatility of the rifle makes it an outstanding option for law enforcement.
As for your dominance preference. Are you left-eyed dominant as well? There is only about 10% of the population that is left handed. Of that 10%, roughly 50% are right eye dominant. For maximum effectiveness as a shooter, you must shoot using your dominant eye.
This means that left handed rifles only cater to about 5% of the population, but realistically it is much less due to the fact that not the entire population are shooters. So, it ends up being less than 0.5% of the shooting population being left handed and left eyed dominant.
For these reasons it is no surprise that a manufacturer of a $5000 weapon system does not cater to such a tiny group of people.
You seem to have pretty strong opinions on the subject, but you aren't really offering much in the way of rationale. Do you have any experience with the DTA SRS aside from looking at them or maybe shooting a few rounds in the prone position?
Well I haven't handled one very often but I sure want one of the DTA's in 7wsm. Never do seem to have enough funds to get one though.
mkmckinley
08-17-12, 09:36
You seem to have pretty strong opinions on the subject, but you aren't really offering much in the way of rationale. Do you have any experience with the DTA SRS aside from looking at them or maybe shooting a few rounds in the prone position?
I think his rationale was pretty straightforward. In his experience down range a semiauto is more useful than a bolt action. Most engagements are within 800m in a military setting and way less in a police setting hence the shift toward precision semiauto guns.
Nice review by the way. It's better than what you would get out of a magazine article especially considering you actually shoot and know what you're talking about. Are there different barrel profiles available?
Are there different barrel profiles available? Not from DTA, that I'm aware of. You can get a custom barrel in nearly any configuration you want however.
The merit of a semi-auto isn't lost on me. Yet it seems the merit of a bolt gun is lost on many.
There will always be a place for a LR/ELR big boomer in the U.S. military. This rifle is intended for that purpose and improves vastly upon the current standard. It doesn't compete directly with a semi-auto 308. Obviously in a combat environment you want firepower and the ability to deliver it accurately and quickly.
The vast majority of people that buy a DTA won't be taking it into combat. They are civilian recreational shooters like myself. For us, the DTA is a clear winner with no substitutes.
it is a nice review.
i understood IN's point was the DTA configuration was less preferable when engaging multiple targets. the only reason semi's entered the conversation was to support the fact that the use case for engaging multiple targets is legitimate and important.
as a left-hand, left-eye dominant shooter, the DTA is not an option for me. but they are cool (other than the name) :)
ironically, the gun may be too short for me too, at least the rail. as my penchant for long scopes (USO and S&B) doesn't look like it would leave enough room for the NV clip ons.
i always wanted one of the AMP DSR1s, and the DTA seems like a reasonable domestic take-off.
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As for your dominance preference. Are you left-eyed dominant as well? There is only about 10% of the population that is left handed. Of that 10%, roughly 50% are right eye dominant. For maximum effectiveness as a shooter, you must shoot using your dominant eye.
This means that left handed rifles only cater to about 5% of the population, but realistically it is much less due to the fact that not the entire population are shooters. So, it ends up being less than 0.5% of the shooting population being left handed and left eyed dominant.
For these reasons it is no surprise that a manufacturer of a $5000 weapon system does not cater to such a tiny group of people.
It freaking SUCKS being in the 0.5%... Im left eye/hand with bad vision in my right eye.
However many of my right handed customers and friends including my wife are right hand/left eye dominant. With your stats of 50% of left hand being right eye, wouldnt that apply to 50% right hand = left eye?
ironically, the gun may be too short for me too, at least the rail. as my penchant for long scopes (USO and S&B) doesn't look like it would leave enough room for the NV clip ons. There is plenty of room.
http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/73371.jpg
I don't understand. Why assume something inaccurately when you can just ask me and other users that have them?
I'd be happy to address any question you had. As a dealer, I'm in a pretty good position to do so.
Why would you assume I assumed? :rolleyes:
I looked at the pictures in your review and on their website and counted the pic rails before I posted. Some have enough room others don't. Some would permit the 27 but not the cnvd-lr which is a good bit longer. It just depends on the config and that's why I said "may"
I assumed you assumed because I've seen quite a number of them with clip-on's. ;) Yeah, if some don't fit, that would indeed be a concern. Especially with the cool units you have.
Dirk Williams
08-18-12, 13:01
Nice review, sounds like a terrific rifle. What's the cost of the initial rifle and then say a 300 wm barrel and bolt and a 338lm set upas well.
Good job Orkan.
DW
Thanks Dirk, glad you enjoyed it. The way they are sold is as a chassis, then individual conversions. So the first thing you buy is a chassis. This has no barrel, magazine, or bolt. Then you buy conversions of your choosing.
So to get a complete rifle, they start at about $4100 for a 308 or 260, and go up to about $4500 for 338LM.
Very affordable when you consider the switch-barrel capability and only needing one $3000 optic. They are cheap compared to an AI. DTA lowered their prices this year too... so it's a good time to buy.
The only real question that remains is how they wear a high round count. Mine is holding up very well, but 2500rnds isn't very much.
Obviously I'm just giving you pricing as is displayed on DTA's website. We're a DTA dealer, but I'm not setup through M4C to sell. Not sure what it takes to be a "sponsor" or paid advertiser. Maybe my excellent advice and harsh mannerisms on the forums is all the payment they need? haha
I joke. ;)
i have one with 6 barrels, i also have defiance actioned guns, r700's, surgeon, badger m2008, aiaw
the DTA ends up coming with most range trips. love the system. with having the option to go down to a covert package, i don't see many systems with the modularity of the DTA. going from a 16" 308 package the size of a mp5 capable of hitting at 800 plus all the way to a 26" 338LM with one scope is a awesome combination. the bolt throw takes a little getting used to just as the operation of a aug would be diferent over a ar15.
i have one with 6 barrels, i also have defiance actioned guns, r700's, surgeon, badger m2008, aiaw
the DTA ends up coming with most range trips. That pretty much says it.
Magic_Salad0892
08-18-12, 20:51
Would you say that this is a better (more accurate, reliable, or durable) gun than an Accuracy International .338 LM?
You've noted that there are reasons you prefer it. But do you think it's an overall better gun?
Specifically directed at Orkan, or BigJoe.
There is no way to make that assessment. I know several instances of AI's with over 100,000 rounds through them, and the action/trigger/stock are still serviceable.
DTA's have not been out long enough for this to happen. So to compare them with the AI in the reliability department would be impossible. Just not enough time in service to say one way or the other.
Now, I know guys with over 10,000rnds through their DTA with no instances of problems. I have over 2500 through mine. Lots and lots of DTA's owned by the guys I shoot with and no one has ever had an issue. BUT... it will take decades to determine if they are as good or better than an AIAW. That rifle IS the standard to which all other combat sniper systems are measured against.
I believe the DTA SRS will measure up over time, but it will take time to prove itself. DTA is a fast-moving American company. AI is a slow-moving foreign company. The SRS is a brand new cutting-edge product, and the AIAW is 30 years old and has had 3 decades to prove itself.
As for accuracy, the DTA's are the most accurate rifles I own. I can shoot accurately more consistently with the DTA's than I can any of my other rifles. I attribute this to the lack of a stock/action bedding interface. The chassis is the action and stock. AI solved this issue by gluing the action to the stock. ;)
It's so easy and effortless to swap out barrels, that you don't care if you burn them out or abuse the shit out of them. They can take it. I put over 800rnds of 308 through one of my DTA barrels without cleaning it. It started to suffer finally, so I cleaned it, and shot 90% on a dot drill right afterward.
What's more... the DTA SRS is cheaper than an AIAW by a fair margin. ... and the AI doesn't have the ability to switch cartridges. You can do it semi-permanently, but not with the ease that the DTA offers. I saw a prototype of a switch-barrel AI at SHOT this year... so they know they've got a competitor.
So yes, I believe it to be a better gun. Not because I can say it is as reliable or rugged as an AIAW, because no one can. But because it's that much easier to deploy and actually hit targets with outside of the prone position. Today I hit an IPSC target at 965yds on the 3rd round, while kneeling.
if you buy a aiaw in 338 you are fixed at 338 or a large magnum caliber. if you buy a DTA you can shoot 308 to practice and just about any long or short action caliber you want with a minute barrel change. Short action customs will barrel you any caliber you want.
I love my AIAW its a amazing gun, but overall length and portability the DTA is a awesome piece and shoots with just about anything out there. i have had both the gen 1 and 2 guns and have about 10k rounds through the system, have had it for about 3 years.
I have a DTA HTI coming in 50 and 375 just for the hell of it as well. more on that when it arrives. its a great gun, and for ease of use, ease of barrel changes, company service being its in the US not in europe, and the fact that you can run one scope and multiple calibers there isn't much else out there that can compete.
the AI PSR rifle looks amazing and i may end up with one but at over 15k US dollars, the DTA sounds pretty damn good.
Magic_Salad0892
08-19-12, 00:45
You guys know precision guns muuuuch better than me. I'm just getting into it, but I know that I want to roll a .338 for ultra-long range precision shooting.
I've been leaning between this, and the AI gun for like 2 years.
Now that I know I can fit an NV device on the AI, I think I know what I want to roll.
Would you say the action is as good as an AI gun?
(I was also looking at Stolle's Panda action, and having my bolt gun built, but don't know if they make it in .338.)
Well crap.
May have to re-add DTA to the "find one and bring it to me alive that I may woship it" list. :laugh:
Wish I lived closer to SD.
Although, I actually ran across one of these here in VA at the new CSA range in Richmond- Shocking!!. Apparently it was the owners rifle on display with a few others and not shootable (:cray: [granted, a moot point on a 25 yd. range anyway]) But at least I found ONE damn rifle on the list to at least get ahold of.
Heavier than I thought it would be, although it was in a heavier cal. than .308.
I too thought it would be nice for them to make a version with a low-profile handguard.
I have a DTA HTI coming in 50 and 375 just for the hell of it as well. Me too. ;)
Dirk Williams
08-19-12, 10:07
Orkan I dreamed about this rifle all night Long. The ability to go from .308 to 338 or bigger in one package makes crystal clear sense.
Been saving for a gas gun 308 build, I'm gonna have to re think that build. Also about half way thru another m4 Noveske gen II/ voltor build
My wife's gonna have a shit fit over this one.
DW
My wife's gonna have a shit fit over this one. lol :D
fallenromeo
08-20-12, 10:37
im becoming a big fan of the 6.5CM round due to its decent range and relatively cheap factory match ammo. Is it possible to get a DTA SRS with a caliber option for 6.5CM?
Getting one of these is on my to do list in the next month.
im becoming a big fan of the 6.5CM round due to its decent range and relatively cheap factory match ammo. Is it possible to get a DTA SRS with a caliber option for 6.5CM? Yes. ... just not from DTA. They don't offer 6.5CM. They might... but they don't yet.
I'm going to have a run of them done, so if you'd like one, I can make it happen, but money talks and BS washes its mouth out with buckshot... if you get my drift. ;)
PM me if you want one.
fallenromeo
08-20-12, 16:26
Yes. ... just not from DTA. They don't offer 6.5CM. They might... but they don't yet.
I'm going to have a run of them done, so if you'd like one, I can make it happen, but money talks and BS washes its mouth out with buckshot... if you get my drift. ;)
PM me if you want one.
I appreciate it. I am still a while out for a DTA, don't own one yet. But the option to get 6.5CM is one of the deciding factors of whether I pony up the money for one down the line or get a cheaper dedicated caliber rifle. If I do end up with a DTA, I will head your way when I am ready to cross that bridge.
They are running them right now 6.5cm barrels are here
Littlelebowski
08-20-12, 22:01
Never mind, saw the PM.
They are running them right now 6.5cm barrels are here Factory DTA barrels?
I talked to Ben like 4 days ago and he said I could have a custom run done... but I'd need to order 8-10 at a time.
Well I was just at the factory about two weeks ago and they had them on the machines maybe they are only Doing small runs
I really want to like this system, but can't get over what a hassle it is to shoot weak side. There's no getting around the fact that I have to break my cheek weld to run the bolt every time I'm shooting lefty. How do you guys run it weak side?
Would be awesome to cut over all length without sacrificing velocity, especially as I move to suppress all of my competiton and hunting bolt guns.
Yes, shooting it lefty can drive you batshit crazy. It's uncomfortable under recoil, and you are forced to lift your head to charge the bolt, and even then you risk smacking yourself in the face if you aren't careful about it. I've had brass hit me in the face more than once.
As a recreational shooter and local-level competitor, I shoot weak side maybe 1 out of every 100 times I shoot. I'm definitely not proficient at it. In competition, I've only been forced to weak side twice. Both times I got the job done, but I wasn't fast about it. Faster than the other competitors, sure... but enjoyable it was not.
For me, the positives of the system far outweigh the negatives.
Come to think of it, I don't think I'd be any better weak side with a traditional bolt gun. Shooting weak side on a right-hand bolt, you still end up jacking yourself in the face. If you've got normal tactical style stock, at least you can get a comfortable cheek weld though. On the DTA you've got that slot to contend with.
For this to be a contributing factor to not adopting the system, you must be weak-side shooting constantly!
Yes, shooting it lefty can drive you batshit crazy. It's uncomfortable under recoil, and you are forced to lift your head to charge the bolt, and even then you risk smacking yourself in the face if you aren't careful about it. I've had brass hit me in the face more than once.
As a recreational shooter and local-level competitor, I shoot weak side maybe 1 out of every 100 times I shoot. I'm definitely not proficient at it. In competition, I've only been forced to weak side twice. Both times I got the job done, but I wasn't fast about it. Faster than the other competitors, sure... but enjoyable it was not.
For me, the positives of the system far outweigh the negatives.
Come to think of it, I don't think I'd be any better weak side with a traditional bolt gun. Shooting weak side on a right-hand bolt, you still end up jacking yourself in the face. If you've got normal tactical style stock, at least you can get a comfortable cheek weld though. On the DTA you've got that slot to contend with.
For this to be a contributing factor to not adopting the system, you must be weak-side shooting constantly!
There are a lot of points to be had from weak side at the matches I shoot, and most are forced by some sort of shooting structure. Other stages are set up to mirror strong side shots on a mover, or similar. It's a lot of fun and It's beneficial to be proficient from both sides when you're on the clock. I practice support side shooting quite a bit...mostly because I was very bad at it when I started competing.
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