View Full Version : Unicorn spotted....Afghan in the wild
For the ultimate Recce fan like myself, seeing this particular rifle in the video was quite neat to see. Seeing the soldier dial dope in on the NXSc 2.5-10x24 mil/mil ZS, along with his dope chart taped on the RE assures me that not only is this a real deal Recce, but one that is being used exactly the way I believe it should....ringing a 16" out at long distances.
If this rifle isn't a real Recce/sniper-m4/Seal Recon Rifle/etc., than I certainly don't know what is. I'm biased though because my personal Recce mirrors the one in the video extremely close.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07672-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07670-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07689-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07681-1.jpg
My personal Recce...
http://i53.tinypic.com/28s22au.jpg
Video...having the video filmed by the actual shooter behind the Recce is the fat cherry on top:)
INTENSE SPECIAL FORCES FIREFIGHT WITH 2 JDAMS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNNg5V8OfDk&feature=channel&list=UL)
parishioner
08-14-12, 08:14
You sure that's a 16"? It looks to me like a block 2 m4 with a nightforce. Cool video.
You sure that's a 16"? It looks to me like a block 2 m4 with a nightforce. Cool video.
I think that's exactly what it is.
If you want a pic of a real recce as we have come to think of them, a Nightforce employee posted a pic of one on ar15.com.
ClearedHot
08-14-12, 18:02
Yup it's a Block II M4A1 being used by MARSOC.
I see the block II certainly in the rifle, however the NXSc 2.5-10x24, the LT724/T-1 secondary setup, and the bipod imho define that particular rifle a Recce.
After posting last night, I got to thinking that it very well might be a 14.5"......but it's not unthinkable to think that if a soldier procured the NXSc, and the secondary T-1 setup, that he also procured a different barrel.
*** I will change the thread title to reflect an Afghan sighting....will that be better:D
I have almost this exact setup but mine's a 16" BCM BFH and I have a x32 not the x24. It's surprisingly handy and excellent at all distances.
ClearedHot
08-14-12, 21:37
but it's not unthinkable to think that if a soldier procured the NXSc, and the secondary T-1 setup, that he also procured a different barrel.
Again, these guys are Marines, not soldiers. The NXSc is already in their TO&E due to the fact it is also used on the issued Mk12's. The T-1 and offset mount was most likely a personally owned optic.
Even in SOCOM units, individuals don't go and swap barrels on issued uppers. Although I've seen personally owned uppers in use on a few occasions.
I have a x32 not the x24.
I believe that's NFs stock offering on the 2.5-10 nowadays.
I believe that's NFs stock offering on the 2.5-10 nowadays.
Yes. AFAIK Nightforce discontinued the x24 for civilian purchase, although I believe they still make them for the military on a contractual basis.
They're pretty hard to come by these days, rarely on the used market. However, I don't think the x32 really gives up all that much. It's a little bigger, but that's the only con I can think of off the top of my head.
Sounds like a sweet setup Johnny.
RE: x24s...I've been told by a NF rep that NF keeps X amt. of them on hand to fill the military contract stuff, but won't sell any of that stock to the civilian market.
It's tragic that they don't make this optic avail. anymore to the public...the x32 is such a more forgiving optic, yet I don't share near the affinity for my x32 as I do my x24. I'm not sure there will ever be another optic like the 2.5-10x24.
http://i30.tinypic.com/sdz6o6.jpg
ETA...the x32 is a better optic than the x24 in every respect except for size and profile.
However, I don't think the x32 really gives up all that much. It's a little bigger, but that's the only con I can think of off the top of my head.
Agreed I like the larger objective and it still isn't that big
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/d315296f.jpg
fallenromeo
08-15-12, 10:06
Damn that rifle is hot. I want a NF so badly. Wish the funds were available...
Found it on Snipers Hide 'used' for $450 off sticker
fallenromeo
08-15-12, 13:17
Found it on Snipers Hide 'used' for $450 off sticker
just came back from a 12K honeymoon. Wife would kill me if I bought a scope right now, even if I got a screaming dealing like that.
Here is a pic of the real deal that matches up to what most people expect a recce to be. As you can see it has the newer x32 Nightforce. I don't know if it's kosher to post links to TOS so I'll just post the photobucket link as well, I hope that gives enough credit to the owner.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/utf-8BSU1BRzAwMjMuanBn-1.jpg
Link to original image http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/utf-8BSU1BRzAwMjMuanBn-1.jpg
Found it on Snipers Hide 'used' for $450 off sticker
Must already be gone.... i tried lookin for it. Sounds quite tempting
Shooterman017
08-17-12, 16:53
Found this floating around. Don't know a date/timeframe, or if anybody has seen it before here...
More fuel to the bigfooticorn fire :blink:
http://i55.tinypic.com/eisbp1.jpg
justin_247
08-20-12, 17:39
Yup it's a Block II M4A1 being used by MARSOC.
I second this. MARSOC has quite a few of these rifles and can be regularly seen in many of the videos of ops in which they're involved.
"That was a Daniel Defense 14.5 inch upper w/ free floating barrel. Nightforce 2.5-10x scope, Aimpoint T1 Micro. Both optics were mounted on LaRue mounts as well as the bipod. Rails were covered by Magpul rail covers. Yes my dope was written on that white sticker because scope was in MOA and I shoot in Mils. I didn't worry about the sticker because I never collapsed he stock. I shot 77gr match grade ammo out of that gun and could reach out to about 800m with no problem."
Written by the man who carried that rifle in the video, FWIW.
**** yeah, brother! Thanks for chiming in. Vid is great.
**** yeah, brother! Thanks for chiming in. Vid is great.
If that was directed to me, that wasn't MY quote, it was HIS words.
Just thought I would throw it here so nobody would bicker over what they thought was on the gun.
Also, SSgt Dolphin, who appears in this video, was recently KIA. So tip a beer for him...
ClearedHot
08-20-12, 20:44
If that was directed to me, that wasn't MY quote, it was HIS words.
Just thought I would throw it here so nobody would bicker over what they thought was on the gun.
Also, SSgt Dolphin, who appears in this video, was recently KIA. So tip a beer for him...
I'm glad SSgt Golembesky was finally able to get a publisher for the book. I look forward to reading it when it comes out.
Must already be gone.... i tried lookin for it. Sounds quite tempting
I got it ~4-5 mos ago
I'm glad SSgt Golembesky was finally able to get a publisher for the book. I look forward to reading it when it comes out.
Is that the "MARS" stuff going around?
wild_wild_wes
12-23-12, 13:36
I too wish the 2.5-10x24 was still available.
Awesome vid. Its good to see my Brother Devil Dogs bringing the fight to the enemy.
Not to sidetrack the the thread or anything but are Afghan VIS's used in the field at all?
Rest In Peace SSGT Dolphin. It always brings my head way down when I hear a fellow Marine/soldier KIA. I know he passed some time ago but time is slow to heal those wounds of loss..if at all.
wild_wild_wes
01-05-13, 21:37
Is ir really worth it to put a NF 2.5x10-24 on a regular M4A1 barrel?
I know the new "Recce" is a regular HK416, but those barrels are supposed to be more uniform performers, aren't they?
Here is a pic of the real deal that matches up to what most people expect a recce to be. As you can see it has the newer x32 Nightforce. I don't know if it's kosher to post links to TOS so I'll just post the photobucket link as well, I hope that gives enough credit to the owner.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/utf-8BSU1BRzAwMjMuanBn-1.jpg
Link to original image http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/Lawdog734/utf-8BSU1BRzAwMjMuanBn-1.jpg
Looks like one of the B. E. Meyers flash hiders, sweet.
I wish I never sold my 2.5-10x24.:mad:
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01554-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07845-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03701-1.jpg
From a 5.56 10.5" SBR @ 750yds....to a 14.5-16" 5.56 AR @ 850yds...to a 16" .308 AR @ 1000yds +......it's truly dead nuts reliable.
At this point, I'm not sure the NXSc 2.5-10x24 with a mildot ret. can be topped....personally speaking, it's the perfect AR precision optic. March Tactical is the only outfit that I foresee ever coming close to providing a substitute for it. That said, it's the most unforgiving optic ever!
Lawnchair 04
01-08-13, 19:16
The recce concept is based around a 16 inch upper correct? If so, I just so happen to have a bcm 16 in ss410 that might need a few upgrades now. :D
wild_wild_wes
01-08-13, 21:18
Trident, you have lots of trigger time with 14.5" and 16" 5.56 precision rifles. How would you characterize the difference in capabilities between the two?
What kinda actual usage we talking about?...pinpoint sub moa accuracy within a few hundred yards?....truly a wash b/t the two given you keep the blanks the exact same minus the different lengths. Now if we're talking minute of man @ 800yds + with 10-12mph winds......I'll sport the 16" over the 14.5", and take advantage of the very small boost in MV to allow a more forgiving wind read. It's important to note that if your not truly pushing these ARs to the absolute performance limits, the "afghan" concept has every bit of the same capability as the recce concept....again keeping the important things the same for the two across the board (all components critical to accuracy minus barrel blank length).
Ultimately, one's trigger time, and the glass/trigger/stock/bipod play the larger role in achieving success with a LP AR than the actual barrel length, be it a 14.5" or a 20" one imho.
Doc. Holiday
01-09-13, 16:14
Ultimately, one's trigger time, and the glass/trigger/stock/bipod play the larger role in achieving success with a LP AR than the actual barrel length, be it a 14.5" or a 20" one imho.
Very true. It's all about "knowing" your gun and testing it's limits. I've seen some guys that have great barrels but will throw a uber cheapo piece of glass on it and it would shoot as if the barrel was already shot out.
decodeddiesel
01-14-13, 19:26
Awesome video, makes me miss it for a split second. Touching off that AT4 was awesome.
It is interesting the shooter mentioned the upper as a Daniels Defense. I am very curious what barrel he is using.
This begs the question, aside from Noveske, who else is offering a precision 14.5" barrel or upper? I am thinking of having a BCM SS 16" cut down to 14.5" with a Surefire break.
wild_wild_wes
01-14-13, 20:21
aside from Noveske, who else is offering a precision 14.5" barrel or upper?
Rainier Arms has a 14.5" in their Ultramatch line. I'm sure there are others.
decodeddiesel
01-14-13, 21:19
Rainier Arms has a 14.5" in their Ultramatch line. I'm sure there are others.
Ah, I forgot about Rainier.
Thanks Wes
-Wes
ClearedHot
01-18-13, 12:30
Awesome video, makes me miss it for a split second. Touching off that AT4 was awesome.
It is interesting the shooter mentioned the upper as a Daniels Defense. I am very curious what barrel he is using.
This begs the question, aside from Noveske, who else is offering a precision 14.5" barrel or upper? I am thinking of having a BCM SS 16" cut down to 14.5" with a Surefire break.
I think he meant the rail system is a Daniel Defense (RIS II). The barrel and upper itself, is all Colt. In this case, the M4A1 SOCOM.
wild_wild_wes
01-18-13, 13:02
Ultimately, one's trigger time, and the glass/trigger/stock/bipod play the larger role in achieving success with a LP AR than the actual barrel length, be it a 14.5" or a 20" one imho.
Based on my shooting experience, and on the vid and pics of SOCOM folks with NF scopes on what appear to be issue SCAR 17s and HK 416s, I would say the most important factors (in order) for a servicable long-range rifle are:
glass
free-floated barrel
ammo
barrel
trigger
(with shooter's skill as the deciding factor)
decodeddiesel
01-18-13, 17:12
I think he meant the rail system is a Daniel Defense (RIS II). The barrel and upper itself, is all Colt. In this case, the M4A1 SOCOM.
No offense, but do you know this or are you talking out of your ass?
ClearedHot
01-19-13, 18:07
No offense, but do you know this or are you talking out of your ass?
FYI, Daniel Defense doesn't supply complete uppers to USSOCOM. Only the rail system for the Block II M4A1 and Mk18 Mod.1.
I still remember all the LMT fanboys that insisted it was LMT 10.5 uppers that was used by Crane to build the Mk18 Mod.0
I know you're a DD fan, but you can believe what you want. I'm just stating a known fact. :)
Lawnchair 04
01-19-13, 18:14
Maybe it was a personally owned upper receiver. Them Marsoc boys get some leeway on their gear, and grooming standards (jealous).
ClearedHot
01-19-13, 18:19
Maybe it was a personally owned upper receiver. Them Marsoc boys get some leeway on their gear, and grooming standards (jealous).
I think it would be redundant to replace your issued Block 2 M4A1 upper with an almost identical DD 14.5" M4A1 upper. What are you really gaining? A lighter profile hammer forged barrel?
Nice find. I do want that scope for my build.
decodeddiesel
01-19-13, 19:19
FYI, Daniel Defense doesn't supply complete uppers to USSOCOM. Only the rail system for the Block II M4A1 and Mk18 Mod.1.
I still remember all the LMT fanboys that insisted it was LMT 10.5 uppers that was used by Crane to build the Mk18 Mod.0
I know you're a DD fan, but you can believe what you want. I'm just stating a known fact. :)
Why do you "know I am a DD fan"? :confused: I don't own a single product from their company, nor do I plan to purchase anything from their company. Not that it is relevant to this discussion at all, but I carried a Colt M4 for many years and I have a fond place in my heart for the gun. More so than any other AR-15 rifle. I can say that a 10x Nightforce scope on a regular Colt M4 firing M855 would be an utter waste of time.
I know that DD does not supply full uppers, and that the obvious answer is that what we are looking at is a Colt M4 (maybe SOCOM profile maybe gov't, who knows) with a DD RIS-II, however the shooters words specifically mention a DD upper.
I don't have a dog in this fight other than to know what I am looking at.
ETA: You are guessing, and that's my whole point. It is good guessing, but none of what you have stated is based on hard factual evidence. You might be right, maybe it is a Colt M4 with a RIS-II rail, that would be the obvious answer. Maybe however, that is not what we are looking at.
Maybe it was a personally owned upper receiver. Them Marsoc boys get some leeway on their gear, and grooming standards (jealous).
Doubtful.
Not all shooters are gun guys - maybe he sees the DD logo on the rail and that means the upper is "DD"?
I heard that kind of thing before... Like the DHS guy with an HK P2000 in 40S&W... Which is made my S&W, since it says S&W after the 40... (true story)...
Doubtful.
Not all shooters are gun guys - maybe he sees the DD logo on the rail and that means the upper is "DD"?
I heard that kind of thing before... Like the DHS guy with an HK P2000 in 40S&W... Which is made my S&W, since it says S&W after the 40... (true story)...
LOL, that's gotta be it...
wild_wild_wes
01-20-13, 17:49
Nice find. I do want that scope for my build.
What do you think of this:
http://shop.outdoorsmans.com/product.sc?productId=125&categoryId=-1
I contacted the site, but I'm still not sure this is the X24 or X32.
On backorder, but they say they will get what the customers order...
Id be surprised if its a X24, isn't Nightforce only releasing X32's to the civilian market?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Pretty awesome.
I wonder if they're aware.
For the ultimate Recce fan like myself, seeing this particular rifle in the video was quite neat to see. Seeing the soldier dial dope in on the NXSc 2.5-10x24 mil/mil ZS, along with his dope chart taped on the RE assures me that not only is this a real deal Recce, but one that is being used exactly the way I believe it should....ringing a 16" out at long distances.
If this rifle isn't a real Recce/sniper-m4/Seal Recon Rifle/etc., than I certainly don't know what is. I'm biased though because my personal Recce mirrors the one in the video extremely close.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07672-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07670-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07689-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07681-1.jpg
My personal Recce...
http://i53.tinypic.com/28s22au.jpg
Video...having the video filmed by the actual shooter behind the Recce is the fat cherry on top:)
INTENSE SPECIAL FORCES FIREFIGHT WITH 2 JDAMS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNNg5V8OfDk&feature=channel&list=UL)
wild_wild_wes
01-20-13, 21:23
Pretty awesome.
I wonder if they're aware.
Who is aware of what?
NF must be constantly pestered with people wanting the X24.
But now I'm wondering if a 1-6X might be better for the Afghan/Recce anyway...
***
P.S. Trident, by next week I should have something you might be interested in seeing, since you pushed me in that direction :)
Indeed I will be interested to see what your copious amounts of research yield. I'm sure at this point your gonna end up with an awesome LP rifle build, just how well it fits your particular needs is still a bit up in the air.
I can tell you that no NF dealers carry the x24 whether it's advertised or not. It's been a cpl. years now since NF has held all x24 inventory on the shelves in order to fill their military obligations.
It's downright crazy how NF continues to deny the enormous demand for the x24. Many users like myself have run the x24s right beside the x32s for the last cpl. years, and still can't pick one or the other.
One particular group of end users has the option of requesting a number of different actual NF models...and these are the guys that made the x24 famous. A friend that is a NF rep told me that they send more 2.5-10x32s, and F1s (former NXS 3.5 models) over the last year or two than x24s.
If your serious about trying to score a new x24.....give Kevin @ HCS an email or call. He is such a pleasure to deal with, and he is the man with the magic touch in regards to the 2.5-10x24s.
For a real deal LR hitter.... I really like to have 9 or 10x on the top end.
In a meadow full of Unicorns...........this is the one with pink and purple poke-a dots on:
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/LogSu2/HPIM1924.jpg
Littlehendrick
01-24-13, 00:47
So I have to ask the new guy question. Why is the x24 choice "better" over the x32?
On a side note, my local fun store has a x32 in stock....hoping my tax return is as good as I hope from my internship.
The 24 is more compact and I believe it's lighter. The 32 passes more light through it
Littlehendrick
01-24-13, 09:54
The 24 is more compact and I believe it's lighter. The 32 passes more light through it
Wolf,
Thank you. I figured there was a light difference, but the trade off in weight on this type of rifle might be an advantage possibly.
Trident,
You own both, and found the polkadotted unicorn NF according to your post(harder than finding the albino one in a blizzard?). Do you see any advantage to really hunt for a x24, or is for the authenticity/look that you wanted?
I have so much to learn, it makes my brain hurt.
One of the NF guys posted on another forum that when they introduced the x32, sales of the x24 plummeted. There really isn't near the demand for them that people think.
Sure a few people want one now that they are discontinued for civilian sale, but if they were a regular line item they couldn't move enough of them to be worth the added sku. It's faulty demand, it exists only because the lack of supply is driving the demand.
ClearedHot
02-19-13, 06:11
Besides the Nightforce NXS, a few guys also run Leupolds on their Block II M4A1's...
http://imageshack.us/a/img22/742/ekailybl1y.jpg
decodeddiesel
02-19-13, 09:35
There have been a few 2.5-10x24 NXS's on Ebay recently. I bid on one and it sold for just over $1500, but I didn't win. :(
I have used both the 32mm and 24mm objective NXS scopes. While the 32mm has many advantages and is a superior optic in so far as eye box, light transmission, etc. it is nearly the size of a Leupold M3 which I think is just too big for a 16" barreled gun.
I will patiently wait until I can get one in my hands. When I do, I am pretty sure I am going to have the reticle changed out to a Velocity 600...
Neat pic....thanks for sharing it.
DD...I'm with you completely, performance wise obviously the x32 yields some advantages, however in terms of form factor, the x24 steals the show for use with compact ARs.
I think you'll really like the LV-600, as I have grown incredibly fond of mine....I love it on a true 5.56 18" SPR rifle using MK262, the sight in for the 200yd hash is actually 200yds. Basically for that one factory load, the LV is dead nuts accurate. When you dope it right, it can't be beat for speed on target out to 600/1000yds depending on which LV model you get.
I'd say 90% of all my shooting with ARs is done with either...
1. T-1
2. 2.5-10x24 w/ mildot
I've yet to find any other optics that come close to meeting my personal needs as well as do those two above...especially when mounted via ADM QD mounts.
Wolf,
Thank you. I figured there was a light difference, but the trade off in weight on this type of rifle might be an advantage possibly.
Trident,
You own both, and found the polkadotted unicorn NF according to your post(harder than finding the albino one in a blizzard?). Do you see any advantage to really hunt for a x24, or is for the authenticity/look that you wanted?
I have so much to learn, it makes my brain hurt.
Sorry I missed your question earlier...
First and foremost, I do believe the x24 is the superior optic for a precision AR at or under the length of 16".
Considering I shoot a 10.5-16" rifle 90% of the time....I'm gonna go with the perfect optic for those rifles.
My opinion changes completely once you move to 18" SPR rifles....the x32 is the perfect optic for the longer, smoother, heavier, and more static SPR styled rifle. Touching from above, more specifically I believe the LV 600 ret. with the x32 to be one of the finest optics around for any 18" SPR/MK12 clone.
NF created what seems on paper to be an easy decision....one optic is way more forgiving, yields slightly better gains in light transmission, and again on paper only weighs a little more, adds a few extra inches, and includes that sexy objective bell over the x24.
The reality is that once you get these optics off the paper, they become two different animals. Imho, they are both world class optics, but not because they are one of the same, but rather due to their own unique qualities, or nuances.
Performance (very forgiving-user friendly/better light transmission/negligible gains in clarity vs x24) VS. Form Factor (lighter/more compact/unmatched sleekness/overall a significantly smaller optic profile vs. x32)
ETA: I don't own a NAV-SPEC....and I only know of a cpl. that are in the wild (civilian hands). Stickman had one or still does that he used to take several great pics with awhile ago when he got a new MK12. The only difference IIrc b/t the NAV-SPECs, and then every other x24 is Nav Spec models have 10 extra hrs of saltwater submersion testing, and then the additional NV illumination settings. NV settings alone doesn't make it unique though since normal x24s can have that option added.
bnanaphone
02-19-13, 13:54
Besides the Nightforce NXS, a few guys also run Leupolds on their Block II M4A1's....
It also looks like some guys run backwards scope mounts under their Leupolds. Hopefully that gets straightened out soon.
It also looks like some guys run backwards scope mounts under their Leupolds. Hopefully that gets straightened out soon.
Why does it matter as long as it holds a zero?
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
bnanaphone
02-19-13, 15:39
Why does it matter as long as it holds a zero?
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
You are exactly right, and I would think the best way to maintain zero would be to keep it mounted on the upper receiver vs the FF rail. I cannot tell if he is running a monolithic upper or not so there is a chance his zero could be affected. Just an observation...
Why does it matter as long as it holds a zero?
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Just that.....it's definitely not going to hold a precise zero very long, especially considering the conditions that particular rifle is in.
I wouldn't even span the gap on a plinker, let alone a work rifle...that said, I'm sure dude is making due with what he has. Mounting a precision optic completely on the rail is an oxymoron.
It could be worse though, he could have mounted it half in between....thereby still losing zeros, all the while doing damage to the optic mount, and even potentially the optic itself.
eta...definitely not running a true monolithic chassis, or even a polylithic for that matter.
wild_wild_wes
02-24-13, 08:44
What is the velocity loss going from 18" to 14.5"?
caelumatra
03-03-13, 22:04
What is the velocity loss going from 18" to 14.5"?
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
Not sure if it would be different for an ar15 though
ClearedHot
03-06-13, 04:05
What is the velocity loss going from 18" to 14.5"?
Typically you lose about 50fps per inch of reduction in barrel length.
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