View Full Version : 1-4 options
Just competed in my 1st rifle match and loved it. Used my BCM and T1 and both performed perfectly as usual. Only time I felt lacking was the 200 yd gongs. Could have used a little magnification for a better hit percentage. Getting a 1-4 for future matches, fun and variety popped in my head.
For 90% of my shooting and classes I take, the T1 will be staying put but for matches, I would like a 1-4 possibly. Funny thing is, I've had 2. A NF and a new Meopta but needed money and sold both. I also wasn't using them the way they should be.
My budget is about $1000 for mount and scope. I'm really leaning TR24 because of its lack of batteries, simplicity and it's price point and daylight visible illumination. I don't care much what it does at night since its not for defense.
Other options I'm mulling over:
Another Meopta ZD
SWFA 1-4
Out of price range but Ill think about it:
NF with FC2 reticle
US Optics 1-4 DFP
I'll mostly be shooting only out to 200, maybe 300.
Thoughts?
Leupold is making a 1-6x now for about $1k...
SpyderMan2k4
08-14-12, 09:56
While its the only low power variable i have trigger time with, i love my tr24. The simple triangle on a post doesnt clutter the sight picture, works great in any lighting, very fast on 1x once you get used to it. I like how for speed you just put it on what you need to shoot, however for longer shots you have the precision of the tip. Its perfect for my needs and the price is right. Ive got no regrets thus far
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These are all the reasons I'm interested in it.
While its the only low power variable i have trigger time with, i love my tr24. The simple triangle on a post doesnt clutter the sight picture, works great in any lighting, very fast on 1x once you get used to it. I like how for speed you just put it on what you need to shoot, however for longer shots you have the precision of the tip. Its perfect for my needs and the price is right. Ive got no regrets thus far
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I had a TR24 and I liked it well enough... until it decided to fill itself with water during a class where it rained. Triji replaced it with a new unit which I promptly sold and upgraded to a NF 1-4 with the FC2 reticle and haven't looked back. I have used the NF in matches involving both fast shooting at close range and shooting on smaller targets out to about 300 yards. I don't even find that I need to use the illumination on the NF unless it's dark as the FC2 reticle is really easy to see during the day.
Never gave the 2nd one try? Maybe it was a solitary issue? Or have others had that happen with the Trijicon ?
Never gave the 2nd one try? Maybe it was a solitary issue? Or have others had that happen with the Trijicon ?
I was actually one of two guys in that class that had a TR24. By the end of the day both TR24s had serious water leak issues. Both went back to Trijicon and both were replaced. The explanation Triji gave was there was a seal failure. I know most TR24s are trouble free, but the fact that in that class both TR24s present failed kind of beat up my confidence in them.
EDIT: Here's a pic of mine after the class. There was actually standing water in the scope. This wasn't just a small leak that resulted in some fogging or anything.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/90Z51/Guns/AR-15/DSC_50362.jpg
WOw! I can see why your confidence would be shaken. I haven't heard this before.
WOw! I can see why your confidence would be shaken. I haven't heard this before.
I know other guys locally who have used them in the rain and have no issues with theirs. I would have felt better if Triji said something like "we had a batch that went out with faulty seals" or something like that which would indicate they actually knew what went wrong and that it wasn't a design problem.
Thanks for the input. Im heavily leaning TR24 and hope I don't have that issue. How is the FC2 reticle at speed? Had the NP1 and didn't like it.
Thanks for the input. Im heavily leaning TR24 and hope I don't have that issue. How is the FC2 reticle at speed? Had the NP1 and didn't like it.
I think it's great. I haven't tried shooting back-to-back with it vs. an Aimpoint while timing myself, but shooting matches with a lot of close targets I don't feel like I'm giving up much, if anything, with the FC2. For the super close targets I generally just sight down the handguard and never really used my Aimpoint or the NF. For the targets that are a little further out, or ones where you have to make a tight shot, I don't really think it's significantly slower to line up the reticle on a good scope at 1x than it is to line up the Aimpoint's dot.
AlphaKoncepts
08-14-12, 11:04
I run a Burris XTR, the Leupold 1-6 is about twice the price, but if I had the budget is what I would have opted to get.
Who is carrying the new Leupy?
I just ordered the US Optics dfp. I put a few rounds through a gun equipped with one. While my time was limited I really liked it. With some practice, I feel I could be as proficient as I am with my T1 at close range. I'll give a report when mine comes in and I get some time behind it.
This thread is chock full of info:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104
Failure2Stop
08-14-12, 16:19
I just ordered the US Optics dfp. I put a few rounds through a gun equipped with one. While my time was limited I really liked it. With some practice, I feel I could be as proficient as I am with my T1 at close range. I'll give a report when mine comes in and I get some time behind it.
I've been using the 1-4 DFP for a while now. As far as 1-4 optics go, I think it shows a lot of promise.
I'm still in the testing phase, so I'm not going to get into the pros/cons, likes/dislikes. I will go so far as to say that I like it more than most other 1-4s, and that my criticisms are more based on personal preference than overall performance.
More to come later.
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This is getting harder and harder. I'm wondering if the USO is just too much. I'm looking to have a simple uncluttered ret and feel the USO might be like having a smart phone when all you want to do is make phone calls. Am I wrong here. I just want practical accuracy and I'm not looking to shoot groups or shoot over 300 yds.
I have been running my Trji TR24G for just about 3 years now. I snagged one as soon as they hit the shelves.
I think it is an ideal 0-200yd optic. Out past 250-300yds things get a little sketchy but as long as you know your holds it is plenty useable. I run a 100yd zero on mine and I have used it @ 600yds and get consistent hits on a fullsize IPSC steel target all day long.
The eye relief is outstanding on 1x and both eyes open CQB shooting is super fast with the giant green triangle. On the shot timer I am faster with my TR24G than I am with my Eotech EXPS and I have far more time behind an Eotech.
Nick,
Have you experienced any of the moisture related issues above? Do you / have you used the optic in rainy conditions?
Nick,
Have you experienced any of the moisture related issues above? Do you / have you used the optic in rainy conditions?
Never had a moisture issue. I have shot several matches in the rain & snow over the past two years. It rides on my daily carry work gun.
BrigandTwoFour
08-14-12, 20:13
I have been running my Trji TR24G for just about 3 years now. I snagged one as soon as they hit the shelves.
I think it is an ideal 0-200yd optic. Out past 250-300yds things get a little sketchy but as long as you know your holds it is plenty useable. I run a 100yd zero on mine and I have used it @ 600yds and get consistent hits on a fullsize IPSC steel target all day long.
Big +1 to this.
I've used a TR24G for about two years now on one of my ARs. From bad breath range to 250 yards or so, I am very very happy with it.
However, the lack of any sort of reference within the reticle for measurement at range makes it much more difficult for 300 and beyond when compared to something with mil dots, BDC, or some other reference mark.
I have heard great things about the SWFA scope, as well. I have been toying with the idea of buying a 1-6 to replace my TR24 (or even the 3-9), as the rifle has been getting used more for shooting out to 400-600 and the TR24 is not suitable for that purpose.
TangoSauce
08-15-12, 00:16
There are several SWFA 1-4 on their refurb site fyi since many traded up for the 1-6.
I'd throw a Vortex PST 1-4 on the list too if you want bang for your buck. They're about to release a Razor 1-6 too.
I see they are $100 off. hmm. $100 off the SWFA or a TR24?
Failure2Stop
08-15-12, 09:08
I see they are $100 off. hmm. $100 off the SWFA or a TR24?
I would steer you toward the SWFA over the TR24. Not that the 24 is "bad", just that in my opinion the SWFA 1-4 is better, especially if you intend to do anything past 300, or want to hit smaller targets past 200.
A Mil based reticle will provide more opportunity for growth as a precision shooter over the 24s triangle.
Then again, this may all be irrelevant to your needs.
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Thanks F2S! The range I belong to that also has a few matches per year only goes to 200. There is a range out here that goes to 300. Not sure if they have matches there.
How is the SWFA at close range compared to the TR24? I like having more ability in the scope as long as its not taking away from close range since most shooting won't go past 200.
Failure2Stop
08-15-12, 09:28
How is the SWFA at close range compared to the TR24? I like having more ability in the scope as long as its not taking away from close range since most shooting won't go past 200.
The difference in the reticles themselves will be transparent. Individual shooter capability and preference will be the major determining factor in performance.
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Meaning you still recommend the SWFA? I shoot with my nose very close to the charging handle, will I need an extended eye relief mount? I have with other scopes. I run a Sully stock.
Do you recommend the circle dot or T reticle?
Failure2Stop
08-15-12, 09:43
Meaning you still recommend the SWFA? I shoot with my nose very close to the charging handle, will I need an extended eye relief mount? I have with other scopes. I run a Sully stock.
I think that the SWFA 1-4 is one of the most cost efficient low power variables out. It has a lot going for it, but at the end of the day it isn't a S&B or a Swarovski. Not that they are perfect either though.
Before the SWFA hit the market, the TR24 was one of the best "bang for buck" 1-4s available.
If you are using a Sully, and NTCH, or close, you will get a bit more leeway in mounting position with an extended mount.
Eta after re reading the initial post:
Illumination is not a necessity with the SWFA or USO optics at 1x in daylight.
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Failure2Stop
08-15-12, 09:49
Do you recommend the circle dot or T reticle?
I have the T, and it works well.
I have also used the circle, and it too works well.
Most people seen to prefer the circle, but it hasn't seemed to make much difference in my performance.
If I had it to do over, I would probably go with the circle, but not for any huge reason.
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TangoSauce
08-15-12, 10:26
Circle if you plan on doing more close range shooting. The circle allows you to get on target slightly faster.
The T is better for longer distances. The doughnut can obscure your view with the magnification cranked up. Their new 1-6 reticle has overcome that issue.
Man this is tough. 1-6 isn't out yet. Weighs another 5oz (probably doesn't matter) and is $999. Capped or uncapped? I'm thinking less is more for me so...capped.
TangoSauce
08-15-12, 11:35
If money is a factor, one of those refurb 1-4 would pretty well get you where you want. Should your aim be to shoot out to 600-700 yards then you might consider a 1-6.
As far as the turrets go, the SWFA has solid clicks on their dial making uncapped fine in MOST cases. It's quicker to dope when seconds are important. Generally, you only need capped if you have a cheap scope that has turrets that easily adjust.
Failure2Stop
08-15-12, 11:44
Man this is tough. 1-6 isn't out yet. Weighs another 5oz (probably doesn't matter) and is $999. Capped or uncapped? I'm thinking less is more for me so...capped.
I am not as hot about their 1-6.
The weight increase is not worth it to me.
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I have been very pleased with the NF 1-4X24 FC-2. I have not found a faster ret. than the FC-2 and I have tried several... I have found the side hashes to be very fast and great reference points at all distances...
Much of it is personal preference, but I am almost dead on with splits and first shots inside 25 yds as I am with my T1's. I have noticed solid accuracy and speed gains out to 200 yds with the 1-4 variable.
I dedicated all of 2012 to the 1-4X to give it an honest evaluation compared to my T1's and have been very pleased with the results, even with the added weight.
I also really like the size, weight and overall durability of the Nightforce.
Here it is on my 14.5" Noveske
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/08c88e6b.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/84d2992a.jpg
The NF and FC2 ret are very appealing to me. Very simple. Seems fast and effective and the scope could be used as a hammer. But it's probably $5-600 more than the SWFA. Hmmm. The simple reticle of the FC2 and TR24 are a big turn on for my purposes. The SWFA has so many great reviews too. My wallet is crying. If I could afford it the Swarovski would be mine and this would be easy.
Anyone have an opinion on the USO 1-4 DFP. Just heard some great things about it. Very interested. Much higher price point though
OK, I'll jump in here and suggest you check out the Burris XTR 1-4, I love mine because it has the BDC reticle.......I really like their reticle!!!!
It's within your budget and it's a solid 1-4 optic.
https://www.google.com/search?q=burris+xtr+1-4&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=skK&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=S-IsULmHE8SMyAG6zYGQCw&ved=0CHMQsAQ&biw=1450&bih=767
I considered the Trijicon 1-4, but out at the longer ranges you'll either have to adjust your settings or use Kentucky windage to hit anything.
TangoSauce
08-19-12, 11:07
I am not as hot about their 1-6.
The weight increase is not worth it to me.
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Interestingly, my friend just pointed out to me that the Razor 1-6 weighs less than the 1-4, and it's barely heavier than the 1-4 PST. It weighs in between the SS 1-4 and 1-6 scopes.
Anyone have an opinion on the USO 1-4 DFP. Just heard some great things about it. Very interested. Much higher price point though
I have the SN4 1.5-6 DFP and will probably send it back (for the 2nd time) this winter. Personal opinion - along with personal experience, but I think the SFP dot is more trouble than it's worth. It seems to be a real bitch to keep both reticles perfectly aligned at both 1.5 and 6x. It's also somewhat heavy - weighing more than my NF 2.5-10x32, if that matters.
Thank you. I'm going with the SS 1-4 when funds allow. Couple weeks.
Singlestack Wonder
08-19-12, 17:05
Thank you. I'm going with the SS 1-4 when funds allow. Couple weeks.
Take a look at the Meopta 1-4 ZD. Unlike the SWFA 1-4, it has an Aimpoint bright reticle for daytime shooting. The dot is much more intuitive for CQB shooting vs. the SWFA's large, open donut at 1x.
Here's a link to a quick review by CS Tactical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-38IX2frOg
Had 1 briefly. Barely used it. Seemed great and the dot was conveniently similar to my Aimpoints. Sold it when i sold a rifle I wasnt using, not any reflection on the optic. My only concern is the reticle being so tiny its useless without magnification. Great glass and illumination though. Simple too, which I like.
I run the baby NF with FC2 on my noveske for 3 gun. FC2 is very fast and gives up little for me than my previous aim point. Lack of daylight visible illumination is a nonissue. The glass and reticle is bright and sharp....although not on par with the sworo 1-6x. Biggest criticism I have is ranging and precision at distance. Much, almost painfully so, slower than an optic with vertical stadia. You better know your hold overs/unders to operate at any speed at distance. At least that is my experience.
Leprechaun
09-02-12, 18:02
Has anyone tried the Leupold 1.25x4 patrol rifle optic? A friend just told me about this one and it's not in the 999 ranget supposed to be about 500 or so
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