View Full Version : M&P .45 or 9 for off duty?
Gentlemen,
I am looking at getting an M&P, but can't decide if I want 9 or .45. All my other pistols are .45 (1911 and XD compact), except my revolver which is .38 special. I've looked at lots of info on the M&P and there is lots of it out there, but wanted to ask opinions of some other shooters and professionals. Stick with .45 or go with 9mm? Thanks.
I prefer the .45 over the 9. Just feels smoother to me.
If you like the 45acp cartridge take a look at the M&P45 Mid Size
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
What do you carry on duty? Is ammo supplied by your department?
What do you carry on duty? Is ammo supplied by your department?
Springfield Operator. Department supplies ammo for duty carry...on your own for off duty.
Another nice thing about the M&P is that it can be had with an external safety so that you don't run into muscle memory/training issues being that you carry a 1911 on duty.
Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk
I've been shooting a M&P 45 Midsize for about a year and a half now and love it. It's been through 4 classes and about 3000 rds. Accurate, concealable and just feels good in my hand. I'll be purchasing another in a couple of months as a house gun.
I own both and they are great options...
I shoot my m&p 9 a lot more due to the ammo being about half as much.
I think if I was in your position I'd stick with the .45 mainly for ammo similarity to your other handguns.
Let us know what you decide.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd465/Adam_Oseran/IMG_0741.jpg
I would go with the 9mm. Off duty means concealment and having 18 rounds eliminates a spare magazine. If you shoot someone with a 9mm in the right spot they go down just like if they get hit in the right spot with a 45.
I would go with the 9mm. Off duty means concealment and having 18 rounds eliminates a spare magazine. If you shoot someone with a 9mm in the right spot they go down just like if they get hit in the right spot with a 45.
The spare magazine for concealed carry isn't for capacity.
I have a mid-sized .45 and love it.
Personally I'd stick with the .45 and keep ammo requirements down.
The spare magazine for concealed carry isn't for capacity.
My thought as well. I don't care if a magazine holds 50 rnds. A spare is always on me for when that first magazine fails.
I like the thumb safety option on the M&P. Those of you who have one with it, does it feel like the 1911 thumb safety? And I always carry a spare mag...Never know when a malfunction or extended firefight might breakout.
Microalign
08-15-12, 10:27
If you are setup for .45acp, then stick with .45acp. All considerations being equal as a patrol officer, I think that you would find the .40S&W to be a better all around duty caliber as it makes for not only a good full sized pistol, but a decent subcompact pistol.
"If I was in a department that issued .40 or was doing a lot of LE work around vehicles, I'd be strongly tempted to carry a M&P40. Lots of 180 gr JHP's that do well against intermediate barriers is a good thing." -Gary Roberts
Hogsgunwild
08-15-12, 10:29
I like the thumb safety option on the M&P. Those of you who have one with it, does it feel like the 1911 thumb safety? And I always carry a spare mag...Never know when a malfunction or extended firefight might breakout.
Yes, the safety is very similar in it's location, function and feel of an ambi 1911 safety. I think that S&W did and excellent job of using the 1911 style safety on the M&P line, unlike how H&K designed their safeties.
Hogsgunwild
08-15-12, 11:04
My recommendation / opinion would be to buy the midsize M&P 45.
Mine is truly spectacular; completely reliable to date, accuracy comparable to my full custom 1911s and 11 rounds of .45 ACP on tap is not bad. I considered selling my midsize when I was thinning the herd and also trying to gravitate towards more 9MMs and less .45s but I just could not part with such an excellent weapon.
The .45 midsize is a tack driver at 25 yards, so, to me, the extra weight of the full sized .45 is a waste and unnecessary in a carry gun.
I also own the compact and although the barrel / slide on the midsize and compact is the same length, I generally shoot the midsize better as the grip length is advantageous for me (you might not think it would be such a help when holding both guns as the compact allows what seems like a full grip but the larger grip does promote increased accuracy with less effort for me).
Why do I say .45 over 9MM? Because presently, there are no issues with the .45. The 9MM is still an unfinished project at S&W as far as I am concerned. You take a chance on purchasing one that is either acceptable or not in the accuracy department. I would personally wait another year or two until S&W gets their shit squared away on manufacturing the 9MMs. Or you could plan on the possibility of needing to re-barrel the gun after purchasing it. Mine was never better than a five inch gun at 25 yards and it degraded to un-shootable. After S&W replaced the barrel, it is back to a 5" gun at 25yards (at best).
I like the 9MM a lot but I won't carry it or use it at the range until I can get an aftermarket barrel fitted on it. The issues are real and the lemons are out there on the market. Google the topic prior to a purchase. If you never shoot past 15 yards, the 9MM may be OK for you.
Is $650 a good price for a lightly used M&P .45, with Truglo fiber optic sights, and five mags? It's a FDE also.
Hogsgunwild
08-15-12, 20:25
I know that the midsize is hard to find right now. Not sure about the full size model. If you like the sights I would say jump on it if it is a midsize and research how available the full sized model is before jumping.
If you carry a 1911 on duty, I'd recommend going with a 1911 off-duty. I carried this SA LW 1911 for many years:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=4331&filename=78177-LW1911left.jpg
Having said that, I carried a 1911 from 1986-2010 when I switched to an M&P45 w/ambi-safety--cheaper, lighter, easier to work on, greater magazine capacity, about as accurate as many custom 1911's. If you want to stick with .45 ACP, why not switch to an M&P45 for on-duty use, as well as off-duty? Here is a nice pair of M&P45's--full-size for duty use and mid-size for off-duty:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7019&filename=M&P%20stipple.jpg
In addition, here is a photo comparing an M&P45 mid with a G19--both are easy to CCW:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7068&filename=G19_M&P45mid.jpg
If you carry a 1911 on duty, I'd recommend going with a 1911 off-duty. I carried this SA LW 1911 for many years:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=4331&filename=78177-LW1911left.jpg
Having said that, I carried a 1911 from 1986-2010 when I switched to an M&P45 w/ambi-safety--cheaper, lighter, easier to work on, greater magazine capacity, about as accurate as many custom 1911's. If you want to stick with .45 ACP, why not switch to an M&P45 for on-duty use, as well as off-duty? Here is a nice pair of M&P45's--full-size for duty use and mid-size for off-duty:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7019&filename=M&P%20stipple.jpg
In addition, here is a photo comparing an M&P45 mid with a G19--both are easy to CCW:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7068&filename=G19_M&P45mid.jpg
Very nice pistols there! I have thought about just going to an M&P for duty, but I really love my Operator. If my experience with the M&P is as good as what I've read about them, I just may make the switch. I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the .45 so I don't have to deal with other calibers. The one I'm looking it right now is a full size .45.
Here is the M&P45 I used all last year:
-- Apex Duty Kit
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- RMR02 RDS with suppressor height BIS
http://www.tridentconcepts.org/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/142745811358.jpg
This year I switched to only carrying 9 mm as I found I was faster and more accurate with 9 mm and my supply of free .45 ammo dried-up...
Im not LE, but I switched from a 1911 to a FS M&P 45 w TS for IDPA a few months ago. I also installed the Apex FSS. After years of shooting 1911's I found the moving to the M&P VERY easy; especially with the safety and FSS.
The safety is a little higher than a 1911 but I still am able to "ride" it. I also found the small grip insert to be the best and I have larger than average hands. To me it is as close to a 1911 as you can get in a polymer gun.
FWIW, I don't see the point in the midsized even though they are extremely popular. A half inch of barrel doesn't make a difference in concealablity but does give you a longer sight radius and theoretically helps with recoil.
I would, however consider the compact as the shorter grip does make it easier to conceal and you could alway use a full size mag and an X-Grip and essentially have a mid sized (best of both worlds)
I am very much a 1911 guy, and i love my M&P45 compact with manual safety almost as much as my Dan Wessons, and it was 1/3 the price.
I highly recommend that you check out the mid-sized M&P45 compact, and stick to the manual safety model for familiarity reasons.
With all the reading I've been doing about 9mm vs .45 ammo, I'm starting to lean toward the 9. A few more rounds and I know there have been plenty of bad guys killed by 9, I'm just having a hard time giving up 45. What's your feeling on 9? Thanks!
Off duty, no back-up officer, no radio--yeah, nearly double the rounds in the gun is a good thing, not to mention that the 9 mm is easier to shoot, especially one-handed. Given the quality and performance level of current 9 mm duty ammo, not to mention the cost of practice ammo, this year I have strictly gone to 9 mm for all my carry needs.
PA PATRIOT
09-10-12, 13:34
Off duty, no back-up officer, no radio--yeah, nearly double the rounds in the gun is a good thing, not to mention that the 9 mm is easier to shoot, especially one-handed. Given the quality and performance level of current 9 mm duty ammo, not to mention the cost of practice ammo, this year I have strictly gone to 9 mm for all my carry needs.
DocGKR,
What are you carrying in your Model-19?
Fed 147 gr HST (P9HST2) because I got it issued to me for free and it has worked well in numerous OIS incidents, but I would be OK with anything on the list: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887.
Up until several years ago, I was a 1911 advocate for years. When I picked up an M&P45 with thumb safety, it felt comfortable and familiar. I am a huge fan of .45 acp, but I feel very comfortable with a 9mm pistol for off-duty use. When I carry off-duty, I either carry my mid or full size M&P45 (duty pistol) or my Glock 17 (or 19).
Michael2007
09-13-12, 23:54
Ammo costs alone make the argument for 9 mm. In my G19 with one spare mag your talking 33 JHP rounds.
Well Gents,
I went ahead and pulled the trigger today! The winner is the FS M&P9. Will be my off duty pistol. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it! Next up will be the M&P45...possibly to take the place of my 1911 as my duty pistol.
Well Gents,
I went ahead and pulled the trigger today! The winner is the FS M&P9. Will be my off duty pistol. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it! Next up will be the M&P45...possibly to take the place of my 1911 as my duty pistol.
Congratulations. Enjoy your new gun.
theblackknight
09-21-12, 19:09
This year I switched to only carrying 9 mm as I found I was faster and more accurate with 9 mm and my supply of free .45 ammo dried-up...
Probably the best thing that will come out of this thread. Thank you for mentioning doc.
Hogsgunwild
09-21-12, 21:47
Probably the best thing that will come out of this thread. Thank you for mentioning doc.
I agree. Doc has quantified a lot of good information over the years helping many of us to decipher what advantages there are in packing a 9MM over other calibers. Actually hearing a ballistics expert say that he is now packing a 9MM exclusively is another clue for anyone that is still confused on the caliber issue.
Hogsgunwild
09-21-12, 22:03
Well Gents,
I went ahead and pulled the trigger today! The winner is the FS M&P9. Will be my off duty pistol. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it! Next up will be the M&P45...possibly to take the place of my 1911 as my duty pistol.
Sounds like a good choice and a good plan. As much as I like my .45 M&Ps better than my 9MM M&Ps, I am basically phasing out .45s in the overall scheme of things, so, even my accuracy plagued 9MM FS M&P will be re-barreled eventually with the hope that it becomes a favorite carry gun.
Please post your follow-up thoughts on your M&P after a few range sessions. Are you planning on any APEX items in your M&P?
KiloSierra
09-22-12, 19:24
9mm. More bullets in the gun, more bullets in a spare mag, practice ammo is substantially cheaper, and there isn't enough difference between quality 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 jhp's to amount to anything.
Sounds like a good choice and a good plan. As much as I like my .45 M&Ps better than my 9MM M&Ps, I am basically phasing out .45s in the overall scheme of things, so, even my accuracy plagued 9MM FS M&P will be re-barreled eventually with the hope that it becomes a favorite carry gun.
Please post your follow-up thoughts on your M&P after a few range sessions. Are you planning on any APEX items in your M&P?
Thanks Hogs, I'm almost certain I will love the pistol. So far, the ergonomics feel almost like my 1911. Haven't got to the range yet because of work..:mad:...I've read a lot on the M&P trigger, but will probably give it some range time before I decide to go with the APEX. First mods will be 10-8 rear sight and base pads for the mags, and stippling. Not sure if I want to tackle the stippling myself, as I have never done it and don't want to jack up my pistol. So any recommendations there would be great! Can't wait to put some rounds through it!
Michael2007
09-23-12, 19:30
Excellent choice going with the 9.
S. Galbraith
09-24-12, 19:19
If you are heavily invested in .45acp already, then stick with it. Heavily invested would be a free supply of ammo from work you get free brass to do your own reloading, or some other means that eases your logistics. Otherwise, the 9mm would be a far easier carry package for off duty carry which should be comfortable and convienient.
Either would be great. I'd probably go with 9mm. But I would get the APEX upgrade for sure.
Ah, I was dead set on picking up a couple m&p .45's and now you gentlemen have gotten me thinking I should just stick with the more familiar (for ME) 9mm instead. Now, I've read a bit about accuracy issues with the m&p 9's, but based on the enthusiasm of those in this thread who have forgotten more than I will ever know about this subject I'm guessing that at this point those issues are moot? Are the 9's good to go now?
Hogsgunwild
09-25-12, 06:20
Ah, I was dead set on picking up a couple m&p .45's and now you gentlemen have gotten me thinking I should just stick with the more familiar (for ME) 9mm instead. Now, I've read a bit about accuracy issues with the m&p 9's, but based on the enthusiasm of those in this thread who have forgotten more than I will ever know about this subject I'm guessing that at this point those issues are moot? Are the 9's good to go now?
Wish I knew for sure as well. I do not seem to hear any negative stories lately but if I were to purchase a new M&P 9MM FS today, I would most definitely not buy it used and would make sure that the dealer could tell me when the gun was manufactured so as not to get a "new gun" that came from old stock. At least that would make me feel like I would have a better chance of avoiding the past issues.
With all that being said, I will point out that when S&W replaced my barrel under warranty earlier this year, the new barrel was still only capable of about five inch groupings at 25 yards, with any and all of my best ammo.
I recently spoke with a seemingly knowledgeable gentleman who informed me that the twist rate on the original M&P 9MM was designed to optimize 147 grain bullets. Hilton Yam also states this and then goes on to say that the newer barrels that are being phased in this year have a slower twist rate and help tighten the lock-up which was also an issue.
This is the best info on the topic that I have seen:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/06/s-m-barrels.html
I'm looking to get my first pistol and have decided on the S&W also. I plan on getting the 9mm carry and range kit. I found it for $480 on line and free shipping. It comes with case, 3 mags, uplula, Blade Tech holster, double mag carrier and ear plugs.
Sent from my DROIDX
All M&P's I've seen come with a fired cartridge case which tells you when the pistol was built/test fired.
As I have stated previously, I am quite happy with the accuracy of my new M&P9, in fact the accuracy is EXACTLY the same as on my most recent G19, as noted here: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1763-RDS-on-a-SemiAuto&p=87483#post87483.
At 25 yds using Federal 147 gr FMJ AE9FP training ammo, both pistols shot EXACTLY the same score on an NRA B8 bull when shot freehand, as shown on the targets below.
G19:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7957&filename=G19%20H1%2025%20yd.jpg
M&P9
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7958&filename=M&P9%20RMR%2025%20yd.jpg
Additional 25 yd testing of the M&P9 with my arms rested on a padded bench using the same Fed 147 gr FMJ, as well as some Fed 124 gr +P HST JHP and Gecco 115 gr FMJ is noted below. The pistol is obviously zeroed for 147 gr, so when using the same center-hold POA for all three ammo types, the POI gets lower for the lighter weight, higher velocity projectiles.
Fed 147 gr FMJ:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7972&filename=M&P9%20Fed%20147%20gr%20FMJ.jpg
Fed 124 gr +P JHP:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7973&filename=M&P9%20Fed%20124%20gr%20+P%2025%20yds.jpg
Gecco 115 gr FMJ:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7974&filename=M&P9%20115%20gr%20Gecco%20FMJ.jpg
S. Galbraith
09-25-12, 12:05
DocGKR,
What do you think of the .40S&W version of the M&P?
The M&P may just be the best LE service pistol produced to date. I was involved in a M&P40 trial at a large agency where four M&P40's fired 7000 rounds each in 1 week without any significant issues. Up to this point, we have not seen any major generalized problems with M&P40/45's--they just keep steadily improving. Some M&P9's exhibited accuracy issues at ranges beyond 15 yds--S&W appears to have rectified this inconsistency with M&P9's made the last few months. The Apex duty kits can offer a substantial improvement for those who object to the OEM M&P trigger feel. An M&P40 w/ambi safety and Apex duty kit will be the service pistol I'll pick if I ever go back to uniformed LE patrol duties again in an agency that issues .40 S&W. Lots of 180 gr JHP's that do well against intermediate barriers is a good thing, especially when working around vehicles.
Nonetheless, as I have said before, for CCW and most urban LE duty, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9mm. In the last decade or so, ammo engineers have produced a superb generation of 9 mm projectiles that offer penetration in the ideal range and that are capable of good performance after common intermediate barriers. As many agencies are discovering, modern robust expanding, barrier blind 9 mm ammunition is performing on par with larger caliber handgun loads, but offers substantial fiscal and training benefits. In test after test, most officers demonstrate a higher qualification score when shooting 9 mm compared to other common service calibers. Smaller statured officers and those with small hands tend to shoot better with 9 mm. Service pistols tend to be more durable in 9 mm than those in .357 Sig and .40 S&W. In a time of fiscal austerity, 9 mm ammunition is certainly less expensive. For most LE duties, there are a lot of advantages in carrying a 9 mm: easy to shoot--especially one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, lots of bullets. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a .45 ACP 1911. I suspect in the coming year or so many LE agencies will shift back to 9 mm given the benefits noted above. If I have to purchase my own training ammo, then 9 mm wins hands down...
RockBottom
09-25-12, 21:57
Does anyone know the date of when S&W started shipping the new triggers in the non-Shield M&Ps?
Beat Trash
09-26-12, 15:20
Does anyone know the date of when S&W started shipping the new triggers in the non-Shield M&Ps?
I picked up a M&P9 yesterday. Test fired in May 2012. It has the new barrel, but the trigger does not have the reset like my Shield has. So I'm guessing the new triggers started in the full size guns after that.
But with that said, this new unfired pistol has the best stock trigger pull I've felt on an MP9.
I will be checking it out at 25 yds when I get a chance to go to the range. I'll be comparing it to my issued MP9 which was made in the spring of 2006. These early guns didn't have accuracy issues at. 25 yds.
If you were to go with a M&P 45, why not go with the compact? The 10 and 14 round magazines fit as well. Not to mention you can get the x-grip on both those magazines and it's just like having a mid length.
ruedger455@yahoo.com
09-26-12, 17:40
Go with the m&p 9
Hogsgunwild
09-26-12, 18:53
Go with the m&p 9
The Op already did.
Hogsgunwild
09-26-12, 18:58
Thanks Hogs, I'm almost certain I will love the pistol. So far, the ergonomics feel almost like my 1911. Haven't got to the range yet because of work..:mad:...I've read a lot on the M&P trigger, but will probably give it some range time before I decide to go with the APEX. First mods will be 10-8 rear sight and base pads for the mags, and stippling. Not sure if I want to tackle the stippling myself, as I have never done it and don't want to jack up my pistol. So any recommendations there would be great! Can't wait to put some rounds through it!
You're welcome, I'm sure you will love it. I wish I had thought to mention the thing about the late models being better earlier in the thread, but, you most likely have one of those anyhow.
You're welcome, I'm sure you will love it. I wish I had thought to mention the thing about the late models being better earlier in the thread, but, you most likely have one of those anyhow.
Pretty sure I have a newer model. The date on the test fired cartidge envelope says 8-14-12. No range report yet.
DocGKR,
Thanks a stack for the comparison... I have M&P40, G19 and M&P9c.
I wanted M&P45 mid for some time, but I was concerned about the conceal-ability. Now that I see them side by side I know that this is exactly what I neeeed!
Here is a nice pair of M&P45's--full-size for duty use and mid-size for off-duty:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7019&filename=M&P%20stipple.jpg
In addition, here is a photo comparing an M&P45 mid with a G19--both are easy to CCW:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7068&filename=G19_M&P45mid.jpg
Dos Cylindros
10-20-12, 09:49
I have been rocking the M&P 45 compact off duty for almost a year now. My Dept. issue is the M&P 40. I love the 45C, and its pretty much the same size as the G23 I used to carry.
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