View Full Version : Preparing for first build
Hello everybody. Was wondering if i could get some insight before I started my first AR-15 build before I just go out and start buying things without doing a little research first. To start out this rifle will be nothing but a range shooter so I'm not in need of anything competition worthy or anything like that, just a fun little weekend plinker. I don't have a very high budget on this one but like I said I don't need anything top of the line. With doing quite a bit of research I've decided to build my own lower receiver, but mate it with an already complete upper as from what I've read the uppers take a little bit of experience and special tools, unlike the lower. In my search I've found that at Surplus Ammo & Arms I can get a stripped lower, parts kit, and complete upper for a comfortable price for me. My question is for what I want the rifle for, would this be an ok route to go? any experience with this company? And if not what brands would you guys recommend without breaking the bank? The reason I'm asking is I've read a few other first time build threads and it never fails that if the OP would have asked before they bought everything they could have gotten a better product, price, etc. Thank you for any insight!
I guess I should also be more specific on what I'm looking at on SAA.
Lower parts kit is DPMS with a Tapco stock:
http://www.surplusammo.com/dpms-ar-15-lower-parts-kit-tapco-ar15-t6-stock/
SAA lower reciever:
http://www.surplusammo.com/surplus-ammo-arms-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver/
Upper reciever:
http://www.surplusammo.com/surplus-ammo-arms-chrome-lined-ar-15-m4-16-upper-receiver-1-7-twist/
Out of curiosity, what is the total you are looking to spend on this project?
Thank you for your response. Realistically I'm looking at around $700-$800 or less of course if I can do that but still have something that won't fall apart on me. lol Of course this is for the build only, I know i'll be spending more for an optic, ammo, etc.
This is only my opinion and I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but if that's your absolute limit then I would probably look at the complete rifle kits from PSA.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits.html
Yes a lot of them are out of stock at the moment, but there are several options there and I think most all of them are well within your price range. Also note that for relatively small upcharges you can opt for different stocks, grips, handguards, and muzzle devices than what's shown in the pics.
Great thank you for the link! Your right there are quite a few in my price range. Have you had any experience with the PSA build kits? Or know if they are of good quality? I know I'm wanting to do a budget build and I'm not going to get best quality stuff for that price, I just want to make sure I'm not going to get something that isn't recommended lol.
Mr Elbowseed
08-14-12, 20:40
Save $200 more and get a colt 6920 or a
base bcm shoot it and enjoy
No unfortunately I don't have any firsthand experience with them. Everything I read suggests they're of good quality. I know they had a couple of issues in the past, but it seems those have long since been remedied. There is also a rep from PSA who posts on this forum fairly often and seems quite helpful. The general consensus as I understand it seems to be that they're a very good value for the price.
I can't disagree with the post above this one. If you can afford a Colt or BCM they are the very best bet by all accounts (no personal experience with them either though), but again the PSA seems to be a very good value for the money spent.
Great, I really appreciate you guys chiming in and helping me out. I'll definitely look into both suggestions given. This is the exact reason I wanted to get some insight. I just don't have enough experience with with the AR platform to know whats good and whats not lol. Again thank you guys for your input it is greatly appreciated!
Question: Is this your first AR ever?
If you're looking for the satisfaction of building something, get some legos.
This isn't to say I'm completely against building a rifle, I just don't see it as a great place to start for novices. The extra coin for a complete gun that you know will work (and know who to contact should it not) is a small price to pay.
If at a later date you want to try building, go ahead and start with a lower.
That's my advice, take it from someone who went the route you're considering. ;)
I second the above. Save a bit more cash, be patient. Buy a factory gun, Colt 6920 or 6720. Learn to handle the platform, spend money on ammo and practice/professional training.
By doing this you are getting a solid carbine that will outlast you if you take care of it, and the most valuable asset, experience.
Build one later on, you will know what you like or you can try something new without amassing a mess of un necessary parts and blowing budgets out of proportion*
* note budgets and AR15 platforms do not mix. Dont kid yourself it doesnt happen. You will find new and crafty ways to spend money.
This isn't to say I'm completely against building a rifle, I just don't see it as a great place to start for novices. The extra coin for a complete gun that you know will work (and know who to contact should it not) is a small price to pay.
Logic award of the year goes to
halo :D
If this is your first AR and your cap is $1k, I'd have to agree with the above, and buy a complete first, and take a class or three.
BCM, Colt, PSA, Troy - all good top end rifles and around the $1k mark. Ammo and a professional class is another $600 (avoid high round count classes). Check out the training section of this forum for more intel.
There are also incidentals that people rarely take into consideration. Sling, Mags, maintenance kit, RDS (if you want to go that route), some basic spare parts to keep on hand. That list can get pricy quick.
Some great advice here thank you everybody who has chimed in! You all make valid points. The reason I considered building one instead of buying a complete is I did quite a bit of research and found a few advantages to building. 1. Cheaper (sometimes) 2. Knowing the ins and outs of the rifle if something should go wrong 3. The satisfaction that comes with completing it. However as previously stated this is my first AR-15 and my experience with this platform is minimal and you guys made some very valid points about waiting until I have more experience with the platform. Sounds like its time to do some shopping! lol
1. Cheaper (sometimes)
Yeah builds are almost NEVER cheaper, and you will never get your money's worth out of a frankenbuild when it comes to resale.. Maybe for a very base model but the problem i see with most builds, especially with first timers is that they always add crap on their rifles they do not need but do not have the experience to realize this yet. I think we've all gone down the road of buying tacticool shit and realizing it offers no advantage (AFG cough* cough*) and wasting the $. I think the absolute best option for someone who is new to the platform is to go and buy a quality carbine from a respected manufacture (colt, bcm, lmt, dd) and take a basic carbine class. That way you can learn the plaform.
My first was a complete rock river ar. Second was a rock river lower and Beowulf upper. Third I just built from scratch trying to save money. ended up spending more on the custom (better parts like BCM extractor, gisselle trigger, etc) but overall fit and finish is much better on the rock river over my custom spikes/PSA/BCM/Wilson/magpul frank stein.
But I really enjoyed putting it together myself.
To build a lower you have to have a set of roll pin starter punches and roll pin punches and a hammer. (brownells.com)
Upper needs a good barrel wrench, armorers wrench, receiver block for vice, and the above mentioned punches.
but overall fit and finish is much better on the rock river over my custom spikes/PSA/BCM/Wilson/magpul frank stein.
You'll find out that this forum isnt very high on 'fit and finish' and more about performance. Most would take a rough looking colt/bcm/dd/lmt over any pretty rra these days.
polymorpheous
08-16-12, 02:26
The heart of the AR15 is the upper.
Sans magazines, most function issues will be from the upper.
Even more so on budget or kit guns.
You can build 100 lowers and still know dick about the AR15 gas system, chamber, or buffers and how they work in relationship with each other.
Buy a factory gun.
Or at the very least, buy a complete lower and mate it to a complete upper.
After you spend your money on all the special tools required to build an AR15, you would have spent the same as buying a BCM blem.
You'll find out that this forum isnt very high on 'fit and finish' and more about performance. Most would take a rough looking colt/bcm/dd/lmt over any pretty rra these days.
My RRA has "performance". It's fed flawlessly for years. There is no slop between the upper/lower. The national match trigger feels just as good as my $200 geiselle trigger on my custom build. My spike's upper/lower fits very loose and rocks back and forth.
I still agree on buying a complete rifle for the first one and customize as wanted.
Well I'm glad I decided to mak this thread. I was ready to break out the credit card and get a lower build kit and complete upper and just mate them. But like I said earlier sounds like buying a complete rifle is the best option to go for a first time AR owner. I thank everybody for their input and advice. Can't say that enough. Theres just so many rifles, brands, barrel lengths, etc to choose from. I'll be spending imense hours on this forum I'm sure trying to pin point the one that's right for me lol.
My RRA has "performance". It's fed flawlessly for years.
It might run without issue for years, but how many rounds have you put through it in that time? Big difference between a weekend gun that's run great for 10 years, and a training/duty weapon that fires 10,000 rounds or more in a year.
There is no slop between the upper/lower... My spike's upper/lower fits very loose and rocks back and forth.
What does play between the two halves have anything to do w/ performance?
@Diesel24: My vote would be for a 16" bbl Colt or BCM. If you start with a basic model, the price is very similar to brands that cut corners in building rifles, such as bushmaster, RRA or Stag. Buy ammo, and you'll learn what accessories make sense for you as you gain experience.
You can get a Stag upper from www.ar15sales.com for less than the DPMS. I bought a 3H from Pete and love it.
Yea... I wouldn't buy anything from a website that says, "RRA is a Company where quality control still means something! We feel they are a cut above the rest."
http://www.ar15sales.com/rra2.htm
Yea... I wouldn't buy anything from a website that says, "RRA is a Company where quality control still means something! We feel they are a cut above the rest."
Lord that's funny. To even put that in writing is pure comedy!
It might run without issue for years, but how many rounds have you put through it in that time? Big difference between a weekend gun that's run great for 10 years, and a training/duty weapon that fires 10,000 rounds or more in a year.
What does play between the two halves have anything to do w/ performance?
@Diesel24: My vote would be for a 16" bbl Colt or BCM. If you start with a basic model, the price is very similar to brands that cut corners in building rifles, such as bushmaster, RRA or Stag. Buy ammo, and you'll learn what accessories make sense for you as you gain experience.
Please excuse this extreme noob question but I'm just not up to par with the abbreviations you guys use lol...BBL stands for? I'm assuming something about the barrel...?
BBL stands for?
barrel :)
barrel :)
lol that's what I was thinking. Thank you! And I'm definitely liking the rifles you recommended from what I can see. Going to go look at a couple shops to see if they have any on hand!
fallenromeo
08-16-12, 15:38
Yea... I wouldn't buy anything from a website that says, "RRA is a Company where quality control still means something! We feel they are a cut above the rest."
http://www.ar15sales.com/rra2.htm
speechless. :blink:
Good for you for researching whats out there, Just read and research the hell out of it and you'll make a good decision. If you are looking for a Colt or BCM contact Grant @ G and R tactical, he'll take care of you.
Well I'm glad I decided to mak this thread. I was ready to break out the credit card and get a lower build kit and complete upper and just mate them. But like I said earlier sounds like buying a complete rifle is the best option to go for a first time AR owner. I thank everybody for their input and advice. Can't say that enough. Theres just so many rifles, brands, barrel lengths, etc to choose from. I'll be spending imense hours on this forum I'm sure trying to pin point the one that's right for me lol.
Yea... I wouldn't buy anything from a website that says, "RRA is a Company where quality control still means something! We feel they are a cut above the rest."
http://www.ar15sales.com/rra2.htm
That is too funny. My rra was a piece of shit, it seemed like a good rifle at the range but when i took it through a basic carbine course in vegas it fell apart on me. No staking on the gas key or castle nut, out of spec chambers, lesser quality steel used in barrels and bcg's. BUT the fit and finish was good! :sarcastic:
NeoNeanderthal
08-16-12, 16:55
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
The typical advice here is to get a BCM, COLT, or Daniel Defense. If everyone followed this advice there'd be a lot less idiots who think the AR is unreliable and the ak is godlike.
(You will get a few guys chime in and say
"OR an S&W/Troy/larue/lmt/noveske" )
of course youll get one or two people with like 8-50 posts saying they have a really pretty RRA that they really like and you should get one to. Regardless of the fact that its made with inferior materials and less rigorous testing. (and it's the same price as a BCM)
but for a new shooter the Bcm, colt or dd is the ticket. Read the first 3 threads linked here written by ROB S. The OH NO I BOUGHT AN RRA thread is just so you know why NOT to buy one.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
I understand that its' a range plinker but for the same money you could actually get a quality gun that your not messing with constantly, AND support an ethical company that puts out products that professionals and civilians like me appreciate. If a colt or BCM will cost the same as a stag/bushy/or RRA. PLEASE don't give the shit pile group your money
If your set on building your gun. I would (and did) buy a complete bcm upper (Reciever, barrel, charging handle and BCG) throw a moe handguard on it. Buy any decent stripped lower then throw a DD or G&R lower parts kit in it to satisfy your grease monkey itch.
This way you did everything but **** with the barrel and gasblock which is black belt gunsmithing. As others have said, Lower receivers are more of a green belt task.
You've gotten good advice to buy a complete rifle or at least complete upper and complete lower, Diesel. And a Colt or BCM from G&R Tactical also is great advice. With BCM you may have to go the upper/lower route but that can save you money if a BCM blem lower is in stock. And this way you can add the stock of your choice instead of having to replace a complete rifle's factory stock later.
Now read the stickys and build threads to get up to speed on barrel profile/weight/length and gas system length before you buy. I recently bought a complete BCM lightweight 16" midlength upper and put it on a lower I built from a stripped receiver (that I already had) with a DD LPK, BCM receiver extension kit and CTR stock. In hindsight I could have gotten the BCM blem for about the same price and had the BCM rollmark to match the upper. (And may still do that.) Not a huge problem but I wouldn't recommend going that route unless you have parts already. Just don't buy junk parts, you will regret that.
Thank you all again for chiming in! I feel like I've already learned so much just in the past few days simply by reading this thread as well as others you guys have recommended. Today I spent most of the day visiting various shops around town. Now trust me I have taken the advice given by most of you and went into each shop looking for either a BCM or a Colt (the first two I went to had never even heard of BCM, walked out right then lol) Anyways I found a shop that did have a Colt in stock and I almost pulled the credit card out. Then he went on trying to sell me a del-ton instead. After realizing I had no interest in that one he mentioned a S&W M&P 15 sport that they sell for $650 but they had none in stock as he said they sell like hot cakes. Again I'm pretty dead set on buying the colt or finding a vendor on here like Grant for a BCM. But just out of curiosity what is your guys opinion on the m&p?
Well the Sport is a low end AR and corners have been cut. More expensive versions of the M&P-15 are better but by then you're getting back up to the Colt ball park ($1000) and Colt is a better rifle. If you want the carbine length gas system you can't beat the Colt 6920 or 6720. Midlength, then BCM.
I bet you can get a better deal on a Colt or BCM going through G&R Tactical and have the rifle shipped to a nearby FFL. If you don't have one already, call around and it shouldn't take long to find a FFL that will do the transfer for you. Usually $10-50 depending on your area.
polymorpheous
08-17-12, 00:02
Gun store employees give the worst advise.
Stick to your plan and insist on the Colt.
They will always try to sell you what they make the most money on.
Gun store employees give the worst advise.
I agree! I was in a LGS yesterday to pick up a check for a shotgun I placed on consignment with them, and asked if they could stake the castle nut on my lower. Their 'smith said it wasn't necessary because it would then be such pain to take back off, and that I would be fine as long as my rifle wasn't loose and banging around in the back of a jeep on mountain roads everyday.:rolleyes:
This thread is great for a good laugh: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26703
Diesel, good on ya for not giving in! Keep looking for what you decided on, and you'll be happier in the end.
...Anyways I found a shop that did have a Colt in stock and I almost pulled the credit card out...
So they did have a Colt in stock? What model and how much did they want?
Yeah I kind of figured he was just trying to sell me it for the wrong reasons, but that's why I wanted to check here on it because not going to lie the price was very attractive, but as you guys have stated there's a reason the price is so low. Yeah they had a few Colts in stock actually, by the time he got finished telling me about rifles I clearly told him I didn't want I had to leave to go pick up my daughter so I wasn't able to see if they had the 6920 which is what I was hoping he had. So next time I'm in there i'll personally look if he has a 6920.
Littlehendrick
08-18-12, 11:18
I will go out on a limb and say maybe only build half of your rifle. Build the lower half, buy a complete upper from the Equipment Exchange.
I have the same lower as you started looking at, and used a palmetto lower build kit. My total cost for my lower was 210. I then found a used LMT upper for 425 w/ bcg and charging handle. Added a rear sight for 45 from a friend, and my total cost was a whole 685 with some magpul goodies. Is it a top line rifle? Nope, but LMT isn't on the trash side either. But now I know what I am looking for in a rifle, how to build a lower, and I saved some money.
If you have a friend with an AR, you can test your lower for function on their upper. If you have problems with it still, this forum is a great help for trouble shooting.
So maybe a way to save some money is to build your lower, and see if you can find a lightly used BCM upper here on the forums. Just another option to consider.
Yea... I wouldn't buy anything from a website that says, "RRA is a Company where quality control still means something! We feel they are a cut above the rest."
http://www.ar15sales.com/rra2.htm
While I agree that that is rediculous, ar15sales is good to deal with... I got my stag from them back during the rush in early 08 for a great deal, shipped fast and he has a good track record. That said hes just a dealer and I would not seek advice from him, as the above demonstrates.
That said, OP, that was before I knew much about BCM, etc. Save another $200 and get top line stuff.
If your going cheap, Id go palmettostatearmory,stag, SW or spikes.
Or save a LITTLE more and go up a level to bcm/colt/or DD.
My $.02
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