View Full Version : Video: Suspect snatches cop's taser...
She tries to take a guy down by basically pinching his elbow (luckily he seems drunk so he just fell), then her taser gets snatched, then she points her gun at everybody. :eek:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=064_1344899874
NCPatrolAR
08-14-12, 20:44
I cant stand it when officers try to bluff people with weapons when they should be using them on them instead. She was stripped of the Taser because she was reluctant to use it when the guy was coming at her.
BTW, looks like the guy went down due to the Taser finally being used on him; not because of an elbow pinch
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-14-12, 21:28
Not gonna Monday morning QB her here. All I will say is she needs to learn how to be an effective enforcer, today its a stolen taser, tomorrow it may be much worse.
Actually before he grabs it she uses it on him. Near the beginning. You can see the wire in the light and hear it.
Did not seem to do much -- maybe the thick clothing or something...
I'll quarterback it.
She shot him with the taser when she first caught up to him. It wasn't effective. You can hear it cycle and see the wires.
From experience, OC spray is MUCH more effective when dealing with winter clothing and just after/during a foot pursuit. Large breaths, mouth usually open, flared nostrils, eyes bugging out...pepper spray. At that point you can back off a tick and let the stuff work.
He didn't fall from an elbow pinch. I don't know how the OP got there...he was drive stunned with the Taser, again, not very effective.
After he took the taser and pointed it at her while moving toward her...then does the same thing at another police officer but got MUCH closer to him...I think she needs to brush up on her deadly force policy and/or firearms skills.
Some cardio would help too. Weezing pretty good.
Tasers are far from the end all be all tool Taser makes them out to be. I've seen it not work more times than seen it work. When it works it works well, but when it doesn't...you better have a back up plan and quick.
He didn't fall from an elbow pinch. I don't know how the OP got there...he was drive stunned with the Taser, again, not very effective.
I said "she tried to take a guy down by basically pinching his elbow." You know - sarcasm - making fun of a pathetic display.
Look at 00:21 and again at 00:39-00:45. That's EXACTLY what happens. She tugs at his arm / elbow to no effect. So that's how I got there.
He falls for some reason, possibly because he's being tased, though from the sound the taser might not get actuated until after he falls, I'm not sure. He also appears possibly drunk and he's hands on with the cop also. So it's a combination.
Besides the misunderstanding, I'm with you on the OC point.
I'm thinking she was doing some foot work at the same time and trying to trip the guy. The video takes a sharp look down, kind of like when someone looks down at their feet when they are trying to do some fancy foot stuff.
The other fail point often seen is people forgetting to dump what they're holding. The take down would have been better if the taser wasn't in her hand.
He doesn't sound all that drunk to me. Just like a dick bag who wasn't listening.
If I had one thing to take with me other than a gun, it would be OC over a Taser easily.
Mauser KAR98K
08-15-12, 00:41
OC would have been a little more help than the taser after its first failed attempt. The guy's jacket was defeating the probes easily. I am shocked she didn't draw right after her taser was taken. I am utterly surpised she didn't fire not only after the dirt bag "tried" to use the taser on her, but against her back-up. granted the guy didn't have any probs, but if he would have gotten close enough, used it, and it worked, he could have had easier access to her heater.
But with all that said; she went home at the end of her shift, the bad guy went to jail. Nuff said.
Belmont31R
08-15-12, 00:50
She shouldn't work another day in LE. Doesn't have what it takes to defend herself let alone other people.
Mauser KAR98K
08-15-12, 01:21
She shouldn't work another day in LE. Doesn't have what it takes to defend herself let alone other people.
And I would counter that shit happens that even the best LE officers can't sometimes tackle on the first round. Maybe she shouldn't, maybe she should. I'm positive this incident is under review and she will get her berating from the training Sergent. Hopefully her head-cam will get her more insight on her deficiencies.
My first thing I'd tell her is, "Be more aggressive." I had to tell this to regular college students in a female self-defense course last year (I was the volunteer punching bag, and I loved it. Haters are gonna hate). Next time around, I was getting hurled on the floor by early 20 something's that I out weighed by 120 or more lbs.
Belmont31R
08-15-12, 02:06
And I would counter that shit happens that even the best LE officers can't sometimes tackle on the first round. Maybe she shouldn't, maybe she should. I'm positive this incident is under review and she will get her berating from the training Sergent. Hopefully her head-cam will get her more insight on her deficiencies.
My first thing I'd tell her is, "Be more aggressive." I had to tell this to regular college students in a female self-defense course last year (I was the volunteer punching bag, and I loved it. Haters are gonna hate). Next time around, I was getting hurled on the floor by early 20 something's that I out weighed by 120 or more lbs.
Nothing personal but I don't care about your college students or female self defense course.
These officers are supposed to be GTG on their own (within reason), and are basically considered "lie proof" in court. If this female officer can't hack it, which the video clearly shows she cannot, then she needs remedial training, and placed outside of a environment where she expected to perform the duties of a LEO.
A bitching at by her supervisor doesn't instill a self-defense mindset let alone a selfless service mindset where she would could be expect to take down say an active shooter. Do you think a bitching at by her Sgt is going to give this chick the fortitude to tackle an active shooter situation?
Nothing personal but I don't care about your college students or female self defense course.
These officers are supposed to be GTG on their own (within reason), and are basically considered "lie proof" in court. If this female officer can't hack it, which the video clearly shows she cannot, then she needs remedial training, and placed outside of a environment where she expected to perform the duties of a LEO.
A bitching at by her supervisor doesn't instill a self-defense mindset let alone a selfless service mindset where she would could be expect to take down say an active shooter. Do you think a bitching at by her Sgt is going to give this chick the fortitude to tackle an active shooter situation?
I'll admit that the footage does not paint her in the best light, but I'm in no place to say that she should be drummed out of LE. We have all seen colleagues (and probably ourselves) in our respective professions botch what seems to be the basics. Sometimes, these are isolated instances in what is otherwise a respectable career. Other times it is part of a pattern of mistakes that need remedial training, and eventual dismissal if performance does not improve.
This is Cleveland Ohio PD. It was part of a TV Show on G4 I believe. The show ironically was sponsored by TASER to show off their AXIOM cameras. I think the show was called Police POV or something like that.
The proper thing to do was to disengage and transition to another form or use of force to overcome the bad guy with a TASER. The cartridge was spent so when the bad guy came within arms reach of those officers, one of them should have taken appropriate action. Did anyone else see the female officer cover her backup with her M&P?
Belmont, I am not disagreeing with you but I have to say that you are under the impression that police actually can hold their own and are in shape. Officers like the one in this video are the norm. The "super cops" you speak of are few and far between. I try to go to the gym three times a week and always have my head on a swivel out here but there have been sometimes that I have dealt with bigger and stronger bad guys. This job is 90% stagnant and 10% pure fear. It's what you do with that 90% down time that separates the good cops from the ones that run and hide.
When it comes down to spending money, training is the last thing some departments care about. Until something bad happens, money spent for training is wasted money. A lot of the law makers and check writers in small towns and cities live in a fantasy world where nothing bad ever happens until it happens to them. The proverbial sheep if you will.
Belmont31R
08-15-12, 04:06
I'll admit that the footage does not paint her in the best light, but I'm in no place to say that she should be drummed out of LE. We have all seen colleagues (and probably ourselves) in our respective professions botch what seems to be the basics. Sometimes, these are isolated instances in what is otherwise a respectable career. Other times it is part of a pattern of mistakes that need remedial training, and eventual dismissal if performance does not improve.
They should be drummed out, and in most cases they are given a free pass. I stood in formation to see a guy get promoted to E5 after watching him hide behind a terp when some stray rounds peppered our ECP. The dude was a total failure and still got promoted. Based on the video of that encounter she should be taken off of field duty. Just my opinion. I certainly don't think getting a stern talking to by her sgt is going to fix her obvious inability to take action or aptitude to control a situation. The situation was only brought under control after her male BU arrived, and took control. She just doesn't belong on a shift.
I do get in a say in this because its my tax dollars who fund our LEO, and I don't want that level of incompetence being what I get out of my dollar.
So, she should lose her career over what is seen in one video? Nope. Perhaps remedial DT training is all that's required.
If every cop in the country were to get canned over something like this that happened only once that we saw, we would lose well over half.
Every cop in the country has had an "oh shit" like this happen at least once. Many change their habits, some don't. One should not judge the worth of an officer on a snippet of video.
I don't know where people think the repository of bad asses exist to fill every LE job are.
I give her points for trying, but the technique wasn't the best. It may sound bad, but until you've been in a few of these, you don't know. People don't normally go around chasing and fighting each other.
Everyone of these I've had, even ones that went well, there are things I would change. When things went sideways, I was harder on myself than other people were on me.
Its more important to be able to take the critque and drive on.
woodandsteel
08-17-12, 13:43
At the 1:17 mark, is that a handgun with a light attached to it that I see on the ground?
As far as her tactics, and the tactics of the responding officers, I would say that some sort of an AAR/Counseling is in order. I thought it looked like two officers were pointing their handguns at each other and at one point. And, at least one of the officers didn't have a Plan B in case Plan A failed.
I'm not sure that there aren't too many officers out there, post academy, who couldn't use some refresher training in DT/Use of Force.
woodandsteel
08-17-12, 13:45
I don't know where people think the repository of bad asses exist to fill every LE job are.
I give her points for trying, but the technique wasn't the best. It may sound bad, but until you've been in a few of these, you don't know. People don't normally go around chasing and fighting each other.
Everyone of these I've had, even ones that went well, there are things I would change. When things went sideways, I was harder on myself than other people were on me.
Its more important to be able to take the critque and drive on.
I agree with both points.
Also, she did do a good job of chasing the guy down.
Voodoo_Man
08-17-12, 13:50
He's already running away from her, she shoots him with it and nothing (heavy clothing?) then she should have went hands on. She tried, did not work, fine, that is what a radio is for. When the uniform cops show up it is an absolute miracle they did not shoot each other through the guy.
I take more issue when he's moving toward her with the taser, and an even bigger issue when he's moving toward the other officer while still holding her taser, then what happened prior.
I can't make out exactly what is on the ground at 1:17, but it looks like one of those palm/strap flashlights.
The whole incident is worth discussing, and I'd really love to hear from the involved parties.
I think what falls to the ground is the back up officers Taser with the flashlight on. Some people have to much of a reliance on the Taser. They fail way to often for me to bet on them. When they work they work well though.
As far as shooting goes she probably would have been justified. I myself probably wouldnt shoot someone with a Taser without a cartridge loaded. Drive stunning with a Taser hurts but it doesn't incapacitate me. But then again I'm 6'02" and 230 lbs who lifts regularly and am a decent fighter. Who knows about this chick.
Suwannee Tim
08-17-12, 19:55
I don't know shit from Shinola about policing but she could have waited until backup arrived. She was easily able to keep up with him and he had no place to escape to. Wrestling with a suspect is high risk. This officer, Jimmy Moon (http://www.odmp.org/officer/9524-officer-james-homer-moon) was my buddie's uncle. I attended his funeral as a youngster. He was killed as a result of wrestling with a suspect. The man who murdered him recently died in prison.
With how quick everyone was there, I'm guessing the other units were already in the area. This makes me wonder how much wasn't on the video clip before/during the foot pursuit.
1_click_off
08-18-12, 12:12
I agree with the statements about her not being fully committed in her job or skill set.
What gets me is how long it takes for her to get over to assist the officer that has taken the suspect down. In my mind, even if exhausted from running she could have done more then just walk up to restrain the guys legs.
If you are smaller you must be quicker and fight smarter, not just be a boat anchor until help shows up.
Get the grey cartridges. Even for summer clothing. Not sure if that is what she had and not sure if even greys would go through that coat.
This is Cleveland Ohio PD. It was part of a TV Show on G4 I believe. The show ironically was sponsored by TASER to show off their AXIOM cameras. I think the show was called Police POV or something like that.
Yes it was. In fact I saw this episode and that was the only time I saw the show.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-18-12, 13:07
What was the guy being taken I to custody for.? Just from looking at it, it seems that he might be drunk&disorderly? And you go to lethal option when he disarms you of your 9v battery, for what- not answering questions and going for a night time jog? Rightfully so you can point out her tactical weaknesses, but frankly I want to see what happened before- that is where I think there is the most critical failure of police work happened.
No nightsticks or OC?
I agree with the statements about her not being fully committed in her job or skill set.
What gets me is how long it takes for her to get over to assist the officer that has taken the suspect down. In my mind, even if exhausted from running she could have done more then just walk up to restrain the guys legs.
If you are smaller you must be quicker and fight smarter, not just be a boat anchor until help shows up.
Get the grey cartridges. Even for summer clothing. Not sure if that is what she had and not sure if even greys would go through that coat.
She didn't fire it at his coat, and he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt under the coat.
The cartridges with the gray blast door are rated the lowest. I think your advice is a tick off.
1_click_off
08-18-12, 14:43
She didn't fire it at his coat, and he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt under the coat.
The cartridges with the gray blast door are rated the lowest. I think your advice is a tick off.
Ok you win, I have no experience with tazers and was just going off of what a deputy friend told me. I will let him know the gray blast doors are rated lowest. He was telling me they had the longest barbs, but nothing about ratings.
I understand she was not shooting at the coat, I was just making the statement that I didn't know if any barbs would penetrate what he was wearing up top.
Thank you for clearing that up for me and anyone else that reads that post.
Edit
http://www.taser.com/products/law-enforcement/taser-cartridges
Guess they must be using the 15ft training cartridges and that is why he said to go to gray.
The gray ones came about later. The first ones were black with yellow and black striped doors. There was also a yellow, with yellow and black striped doors.
Every department around here uses the green ones.
Two cents:
Don't pull it out unless you plan to use it.
Not sure what the Dept policy is on warnings but once the BG starts coming back toward you, that might be a good time to pull the trigger.
She did seem to have the presence of mind to not shoot the big puffy coat. Instead, she shot him in the big baggy pants!
Not sure what the Dept policy is on old school back alley beat downs, but I think an ASP baton would have been warranted after the taser fail.
Flag-O-rama with her service piece.
Nice body lock and takedown by the male officer. Looks like the Dept EO policy is working.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.