Powder recommendation - .308

[skywalkrNCSU]

I am just getting my reloading equipment and plan on mainly reloading .308 but I am not sure what would be the best powder to get. Also, will the same powder work well for .223?

If so I will just buy in bulk when I find some.

Thanks

[aveisone]

I load .223 &.308 with Varget. It has shown great results.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Awesome, thanks for the suggestion. There is a gun show in town this weekend so I am hoping to pick up some powder and primers there to avoid a hazmat fee, will grab some of that if I find it at a reasonable price, any other recommendations? Wouldn't mind picking up a few different ones to try out some different loads.

[JStor]

I also use Varget for .223 Rem. and .308 Win. Other choices would be Ramshot Tac and Reloder 15. I also have used Winchester 748 for both cartridges with good success. Varget is still my favorite.

[AR15barrels]

Varget is my go-to powder for 308.

[tuck]

I have had great success with Varget and IMR 4064.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

R15 for my ar and my 308. It's important to know what gun your reloading for?

[odiesplace]

I find varget works best for me with tac being a close second

[skywalkrNCSU]

R15 for my ar and my 308. It's important to know what gun your reloading for?

AR-10 and AR-15 mainly. Might start reloading other for other guns down the road.

[Stangman]

X2 on the imr 4064. It is a longer grain so it doesn't meter as well, but it is great for accuracy.

[markm]

I have had great success with Varget and IMR 4064.

This here.

I would definitely NOT look to use the same powder for .223.... just because you can find a meterable powder like H322 or Benchmark.

Varget and 4064 both do good things in .223, but the long powder kernels make them impractical for bulk loading.

[QuietShootr]

Another vote for Varget.

[skywalkrNCSU]

This here.

I would definitely NOT look to use the same powder for .223.... just because you can find a meterable powder like H322 or Benchmark.

Varget and 4064 both do good things in .223, but the long powder kernels make them impractical for bulk loading.

If I hand load .223 right now it will be more for precision rather than bulk loading. I don't have a ton of free time and only have a single stage press so I do not foresee myself cranking out a ton of rounds haha. I don't shoot that often and when I do it isn't for something like a carbine course, just doing some target shooting or maybe some varmint hunting.

Recommendations for bulk .223 powder? Would like to keep it in mind in case I do decide to go that route. Also, what is the reasoning behind using a different powder?

[skywalkrNCSU]

Or were you recommending H322 or benchmark for bulk reloading? Sorry, got a bit confused.

[markm]

We blast H322 for bulk "match" ammo on my 550b. It meters like a champ.... same with benchmark.... they're both short cut extruded, fine kernel powders.

Varget falls short for .223 because it's hard to get enough into the case if you want a hotter load. 4064 is accurate in .223 too. But that stuff is like rice.... I mean lovely long kernels... but impractical for any kind bulk loading.

I run a chargemaster combo for loading Extrudeds in big bore calibers... so I don't care how long the kernels are.

But for .223, there's good fine extrudeds to pick from.

[markm]

Also... keep in mind that various 308 brass can have very different internal case volumes. Try to stick to a single flavor of .308.

.223, for the most part, doesn't have this issue.

And for your gas gun .308, you can't necessarily run a published max bolt gun load. You'll chew up your gun and your brass if you go too hot..... someone here gave me this advice a few years back when I started doing a load for my buddy's MWS.

[skywalkrNCSU]

Awesome! Great info, that was very helpful!

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

AR-10 and AR-15 mainly. Might start reloading other for other guns down the road.

R15 is a good choice for gas guns and it will get you the best speeds. I'm not a varget fan at all, if it was a bolt gun I would say n150 will give you an edge in the speed category with heavy bullets.

[markm]

R15 is a good choice for gas guns and it will get you the best speeds.

What about the temp sensitivity of that stuff?

[AR15barrels]

All powders are temp sensitive.
It's just a matter of how much.
It's not really something to be concerned about though as the spread between really sensitive and not very sensitive is pretty small in the grand scheme of things...

[GearBox]

Varget here...

Sent from my mobile device.

[Alaskapopo]

This here.

I would definitely NOT look to use the same powder for .223.... just because you can find a meterable powder like H322 or Benchmark.

Varget and 4064 both do good things in .223, but the long powder kernels make them impractical for bulk loading.

Never had a problem bulk loading with Varget on my dillon for my .223's.
Pat

[markm]

Never had a problem bulk loading with Varget on my dillon for my .223's.
Pat

Are you running compressed loads? or just medium velocity loads?

[Alaskapopo]

Are you running compressed loads? or just medium velocity loads?

This has been a really good load for me with Varget.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Larue%20Stealth%20targets/LarueVargetgroups.jpg

The groups did get bigger when I went up.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Larue%20Stealth%20targets/MaxchargeofVarget.jpg

[ramairthree]

If you like sticking with one powder for both calibers, and use a volumetric charge dropper, TAC will do decent loads for both and meter well.

If you don't need to meter,
or you want to keep different powders on hand,
several of the choices already mentioned will be fine and can in some ways make for better loads.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

What about the temp sensitivity of that stuff?

All powders are temp sensitive, I have no issues with r15 and it will give the best speeds/groups

[AR15barrels]

Are you running compressed loads? or just medium velocity loads?

Don't you love how you ask someone "pepsi or coke" and they answer "cheese"...

[Alaskapopo]

Don't you love how you ask someone "pepsi or coke" and they answer "cheese"...

Thought it was easier just to show him. The powder charge in both is listed as is everything else.
Pat

[markm]

This has been a really good load for me with Varget.

I'm getting 1/4 MOA with 21.6 gr H322, WOLF SRM primers, and 77 gr SMK.

Also getting about 1/4 MOA with 22.9 gr H322, Wolf SRMs, and 69 gr SMKs.

These are fired from a Rem 700 5R owned by Pappabear.

I'll try to get pics up tonight.

(I can get near max loads with Varget if I drop the charge with a drop tube... but not worth it since we've had such good luck with H322)

[Alaskapopo]

I'm getting 1/4 MOA with 21.6 gr H322, WOLF SRM primers, and 77 gr SMK.

Also getting about 1/4 MOA with 22.9 gr H322, Wolf SRMs, and 69 gr SMKs.

These are fired from a Rem 700 5R owned by Pappabear.

I'll try to get pics up tonight.

My groups are from a Semi.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/LarueStealth.jpg

I may have to try H322. 1/4 moa is great. I am assuming 5 shot groups.
Pat

[markm]

I may have to try H322. 1/4 moa is great. I am assuming 5 shot groups.
Pat


Yeah. 5 shots is all I (the shooter) can handle before making mistakes.

We shoot the load out of Pappa's White Oak AR too... but I don't think we've done a 1/4 MOA

I have a couple groups I've cut out and saved...

The critical factor in the load is the WOLF SRMs. We shot the load with 4 different primers and the WOLFs were far and away the best. CCI BR primers the worst... not even MOA... CCI 400s about 1/2 MOA

[ramairthree]

I have a question that came up during this thread,
I have seen many other examples of it.

This is not about the powder.

It is something I have noticed about primer and bullet selection.

bottom barrel to top shelf primers range about 19$ to 35$ / 1000
low price surplus to top shelf bullets range about 60$ to >200$ / 1000

I see the combo of bottom price primers and top shelf bullets pretty often listed as pet loads.

This is not a criticism, I buy lower price bullets and mid price primers.

I would like to know why if someone has already invested in top shelf bullets they dont spend the extra ten bucks / 1000 in primers?

[markm]

I would like to know why if someone has already invested in top shelf bullets they dont spend the extra ten bucks / 1000 in primers?

The best primers are WOLF. I'd spend twice as much to run them if I had to. They're that good.

To a certain extent, price is no consideration if you're after accuracy.

Primer selection can be HUGE... and a lot of people overlook it.... or just buy "BR" or "MATCH" primers and assume that's the best selection.

In my .223 load, the most expensive primer shot the worst groups. So we get a load we like and then find out which primer makes is sing the best.

[Ironman8]

The best primers are WOLF. I'd spend twice as much to run them if I had to. They're that good.

To a certain extent, price is no consideration if you're after accuracy.

Primer selection can be HUGE... and a lot of people overlook it.... or just buy "BR" or "MATCH" primers and assume that's the best selection.

In my .223 load, the most expensive primer shot the worst groups. So we get a load we like and then find out which primer makes is sing the best.

I'm new to reloading, so I don't know what I don't know...

What makes primer selection so critical to accuracy? In my (uneducated) perspective, the primer goes bang, ignites powder, powder propells projectile out barrel and toward target. What makes one primer more accurate over the other??

PS: I went with Wolf SRM primers because they are cheap and got good reviews from yourself and others...so thanks ;)

[markm]

I don't entirely know the answer to that. I'm sure it has to do with the characteristics of the powder and how it burns.

The trick with WOLF is the consistency. When you get to chronoing, you'll see that WOLF yields lower extreme spreads and lower Standard Deviations.

There was a recent article in Hand Loader magazine where a guy loaded several different primers in a pistol cartrige and got pressure spikes that varied as much as over 10,000 PSI if I remember right.

So if you get the right powder, the right charge of that powder, and ignite it with the right amount of spark, you'll be able to hit good barrel harmonics and get that great accuracy.

[Ironman8]

Well I bought bulk WOLF SRM's, Hornady 55gr FMJBT, and WC844 for bulk practice ammo so I hope it works out for me.

I'm also hoping to use the above primers and powder with 77gr SMKs and 70gr TSX for more longer range precision type work...

Any thoughts?

[markm]

Wolf SRMs don't light H335 very well at all... hang fires, no fires, etc. Not sure how they do with 844.

I've burned thousands of WOLF primers with Hornady 55 gr FMJs. I wish I'd have used other primers and saved the Wolfies for SMKs... but they're cheap so... :(

I just use CCI or WIN primers for bulk 55 gr loading.

We're down to 20 thousand Wolf primers now... so I have to be cheap with them and save them for good bullets. ;)

[ramairthree]

Thank you.

I may have ran some Tula primers and confused them for Wolf,
or it may have the the IMR powder I was using,
but the hundred I tried resulted in half a dozen FTF.

It was just a try a couple of years ago, when WSPs were changing and I wanted to see what I was going to use instead.
so I may be wrong in equating inexpensive primers to not top shelf primers.

[markm]

Thank you.

I may have ran some Tula primers and confused them for Wolf,
or it may have the the IMR powder I was using,
but the hundred I tried resulted in half a dozen FTF.

I've not tried Tula... but the guys on accurateshooter claim they're the SAME product out of the Same plant. :confused:

If I could find them locally, I'd like to see and try a hundred.

[AR15barrels]

What makes primer selection so critical to accuracy? In my (uneducated) perspective, the primer goes bang, ignites powder, powder propells projectile out barrel and toward target. What makes one primer more accurate over the other??

HOW the primer goes bang.
No two guns like the same bang.
You have to try different primers to see what your gun prefers.
More expensive does not necessarily mean better.

[AR15barrels]

I've not tried Tula... but the guys on accurateshooter claim they're the SAME product out of the Same plant. :confused:

Wolf does not actually MANUFACTURE anything.
Wolf is just a distributor.
They order enough ammo that they have their own headstamp, but they don't have a factory.

Wolf packages Tula manufactured primers and centerfire ammo (steel cased).
The brass cased wolf ammo is Privi Partizan made I think (ppu headstamp).

Wolf 22 match ammo is re-packaged SK standard plus (both are manufactured by lapua).

[markm]

Wolf does not actually MANUFACTURE anything.


Indeed. I still have some of that Wolf "M193" ammo from several years ago.

[chadbag]

Wolf SRMs don't light H335 very well at all... hang fires, no fires, etc. Not sure how they do with 844.


There have been reports that the latest batches of Wolf SRM fix the H335/844 problems.

I know my older batches of Wolf SRM are fine with H335 / 844 but then we had a long period of lots that had issues. Supposedly that is fixed (?) based on reports.


--

[Ironman8]

There have been reports that the latest batches of Wolf SRM fix the H335/844 problems.

I know my older batches of Wolf SRM are fine with H335 / 844 but then we had a long period of lots that had issues. Supposedly that is fixed (?) based on reports.


--

I hope so...I guess I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks for the responses to mine and all the other questions here in the thread.

[markm]

Here's some groups I happened to keep.

The 69 gr on the left measures 1/4", center to center with that flyer on the left. The other 4 bullets bug holed. (.30 cal hole outside of the circle is obviously not part of the group)

The 77 gr group on the right isn't the best we've got... it's just one I happened to keep. It measures 1/2", center to center. But the load is better than 1/2 MOA. Pappabear thinks the 77s shoot better overall.

Both groups shot a 100 meters on the High Power range in Mesa, AZ.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/smk.jpg

[markm]

There have been reports that the latest batches of Wolf SRM fix the H335/844 problems.

We have 10,000 new ones to try. I'll have to get another pound of H335 for the research.

[frankmako]

imr 4895 and/or w846 pull down powder.