View Full Version : Why is America so Star-Spangled Awesome?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16K6m3Ua2nw&feature=share
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109028
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Ah, more progressive propaganda from Aaron Sorkin and HBO. Thanks for that - it's always good to know what the left is thinking.
GeorgiaBoy
08-15-12, 15:33
I would say it was pretty spot-on.
If you honestly believe that America is still "the greatest country on earth" then you are delusional, or at best optimistic. Our government and political system is so ****ed up we can't even fathom it. We are 15 trillion dollars in debt and in the center of a world-wide recession. We are living in a welfare state and turning more socialist every single day. We spend billions fighting a war 7,000 miles a way in a country where people still live in earthen huts. We are struggling to cope with millions of illegal immigrants that have come and are coming across a broken border. Most of our constitutional protections and rights have been almost written away by new laws and executive orders. Today, warrantless searches, indefinite detention, and U.S. citizen assassination are perfectly normal.
I'm sorry, but this is not the greatest country anymore. In fact, I don't know what country is. We are more globalist than ever and the separations of many countries is becoming more and more of a fine line.
I would say that gun rights in this country are one of the last things that keep us a LITTLE bit more free than most other free countries.
montanadave
08-15-12, 15:37
Progressive propaganda? Sure, I suppose.
But the points enumerated by Jeff Daniels' character are, sadly, quite accurate. And we should be striving as a nation to improve those numbers, not fall further behind.
If something's lame, it's the condition in which we find ourselves. We may disagree, at times vociferously, over how to make up this lost ground. But let's at least concede we have some work to do.
I would say it was pretty spot-on.
If you honestly believe that America is still "the greatest country on earth" then you are delusional. Our government and political is so ****ed up we can't even fathom it. We are 15 trillion dollars in debt and in the center of a world-wide recession. We are living in a welfare state and turning more socialist every single day. We spend billions fighting a war 7,000 miles a way in a country where people still live in earthen huts. We are struggling to cope with millions of illegal immigrants that have come and are coming across a broken border. Most of our constitutional protections and rights have been almost written away by new laws and executive orders. Today, warrantless searches, indefinite detention, and U.S. citizen assassination are perfectly normal.
I'm sorry, but this is not the greatest country anymore. In fact, I don't know what country is. We are more globalist than ever and the separations of many countries is becoming more and more of a fine line.
I would say that gun rights in this country are one of the last things that keep us a LITTLE bit more free than most other free countries.
These are all irrelevant to the question. Being greatest is not some absolute condition. It merely means better than all the alternatives. And compared to all the other 1st world countries on earth, the US is the greatest. You said it yourself, the gun rights are typically better. The opportunity is also typically better.
That does not mean that there are not things that need to be fixed. There are. A lot of them. But, after visiting and living in other countries, I'd still rather live in the US as a permanent home.
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What's said in the clip is exactly correct. We are not the greatest anymore.
We could be... but it's going to take great courage and moral action by the citizens to get rid of our corrupt politicians.
We are the greatest country, period. This video is somehwat accurate, and with all that shit, all those problems we are still lightyears better than the closest contender.
If we aren't the greatest (And I am speaking directly to those saying we are not...) then please tell me what country is and why?
With all of that said; we most likely will not be the greatest country around for much longer, as we are on a downward spiral the likes of which I believe most of us can't even fathom at this point in time.
If America isn't the greatest; then please tell me what country you believe is and why. And saying we aren't but I don't know which country is; is a cop-out and BS.
There are few places on this planet that can even come close to what we have built here in the USA; even though 90% of the greateness has been erroded...
@orkan:
We could be... but it's going to take great courage and moral action by the citizens to get rid of our corrupt politicians.
Well, when they've been pushing for nearly 50 years to continually erode and destroy the morals of the nation, what should we expect is the result?
It's just pandering and showmanship to complain about American's decline when they've had the biggest hand in it. They have no interest in improving the morals of the nation. They actively hate any real morality.
GeorgiaBoy
08-15-12, 16:15
We are the greatest country, period. This video is somehwat accurate, and with all that shit, all those problems we are still lightyears better than the closest contender.
If we aren't the greatest (And I am speaking directly to those saying we are not...) then please tell me what country is and why?
"Lightyears"? That is a very far fetched measurement. I would say we are miles, maybe kilometers further ahead of most "close contenders".
If I had to pick a country, I would probably say Switzerland. Good gun rights, excellent economic freedoms, low government spending, much better privacy freedoms, to name a few reasons.
But I will stay here for now..
Been to Switzerland? The Swiss have a lot of crazy laws and restrictions on things we take for granted here and wouldn't think twice about. They are hardly "free" in the same way we are. But they have also had it drilled into their society so they would find it normal, just like you would if you lived there long enough. People who have not had freedom or certain liberties (either ever or in a long time) do acclimate.
You will know that we have serious problems when you start to see the middle class and above leaving this country on a large scale (because they can). Right now, that is not happening.
Yes, you can point to countries that have individual advantages over the US. However, there is no country where the average productive citizen enjoys a similar standard of living, opportunity, and individual liberties.
Another point to consider that the stats that Jeff Daniels cites are averages for our country. On one hand, we are a much larger and more diverse population than countries like Switzerland which makes these comparisons rather difficult. On the other hand, we have a significant proportion of the population (10-20%) that is content to use its liberty to piss away their lives in a haze of pot, alcohol, pills and cocaine. Such is their choice. When you look at US citizens who choose to graduate from high school and actually participate in society, the numbers start to change in our favor.
Have things gotten worse since the cultural revolutions of the 60's and 70's - sure. However, I would not bet against the US and move to Switzerland or Singapore just yet.
Another point to consider that the stats that Jeff Daniels cites are averages for our country. On one hand, we are a much larger and more diverse population than countries like Switzerland which makes these comparisons rather difficult. On the other hand, we have a significant proportion of the population (10-20%) that is content to use its liberty to piss away their lives in a haze of pot, alcohol, pills and cocaine. Such is their choice. When you look at US citizens who choose to graduate from high school and actually participate in society, the numbers start to change in our favor.
I think this is an important observation. The diversity of US culture is such that there will inevitably be a greater distance between the top and the bottom than will be seen in much smaller and much more homogenous populations such as in Europe. Obama seems intent on narrowing that distance. I don't think that's possible and still retain the culture that did make America great in the first place, especially since his plan appears to be to narrow the distance by only bringing the upper end down. Penalizing the higher producers for being higher producers, while rewarding the lower producers and dis-incenting them to achieve.
Except for NFA type things (and even there suppressors are forbidden in many Cantons), I'd rather be in the free-part of the US than Switzerland when it comes to guns:
http://stason.org/TULARC/travel/swiss-switzerland/3-2-2-Switzerland-Regulations-on-guns.html
(yes this is a little older but I did not find anything to show that it is not valid any longer)
For Western Europe, yes, Switzerland would be my choice.
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"Lightyears"? That is a very far fetched measurement. I would say we are miles, maybe kilometers further ahead of most "close contenders".
If I had to pick a country, I would probably say Switzerland. Good gun rights, excellent economic freedoms, low government spending, much better privacy freedoms, to name a few reasons.
But I will stay here for now..
Far fetched? NOT IN THE LEAST.
No other country has the opportuinities coupled with freedoms that the USA has to offer. NONE COME CLOSE when looking at the big picture.
The world continues to flock here for the economic opportunities and freedoms we have; it isn't by coincidence that boat loads (literally sometimes) of people come here to enjoy what we have built.
It might be decaying rapidly, but it is still LIGHT YEARS beyond the closest contenders and I will stick to that assertion until shown facts to the contrary.
Take a trip to Switzerland, immerse yourself into their culture, laws, values and see if you still feel that way...
Just a few laws they have on the books in ol' Switzerland:
In a small town in Switzerland it is illegal to ride down hills with a bike.
Clothes may not be hung to dry on Sunday.
You may not wash your car on a Sunday.
It is considered an offense to mow your lawn on a Sunday, because it causes too much noise.
It is illegal to flush the toilet after 10 P.
A man may not relieve himself while standing up, after 10 P.
Though it is illegal to produce, store, sell and trade absinth, it is legal to consume it.
It is illegal to ski down a mountain while reciting poetry.
It is required that every car with snow tires has to have a sticker on its dashboard which tells that the driver should not drive faster than 160 km/h with these tires.
If you forget your car-keys inside the car and you leave the car open (unlocked), you will be punished.
It is against the law for any man to unilaterally declare war on another country.
They even have a new law establishing animals right to representation in court. -To appoint a designated attorney representing animals in court? Okay?
Thats just a few...
The funny thing is I have a few friends from Europe who moved here to find employment and start business'; as there home countries will not let them hold a job and start a business on the side; because that would be stealing a job from another citizen who needs it; and you already have one...
No where else in the world can you prosper as you can here by just simply stepping up to action and making it happen yourself. Regulations, licensing and gummint intervention have changed this over the years, but even now it is easier to start a business here and be successful than it is anywhere else in the world.
Also, it bares mentioning that 3/4 of the rest of the world enjoys the comfort they do because we provide security and moneys for them to do so. Without the USA backing them (I could name endless countries that enjoy the freedoms they do by standing on our shoulders so to speak) they would be mounds of dirt.
Magic_Salad0892
08-15-12, 21:31
Far fetched? NOT IN THE LEAST.
No other country has the opportuinities coupled with freedoms that the USA has to offer. NONE COME CLOSE when looking at the big picture.
The world continues to flock here for the economic opportunities and freedoms we have; it isn't by coincidence that boat loads (literally sometimes) of people come here to enjoy what we have built.
It might be decaying rapidly, but it is still LIGHT YEARS beyond the closest contenders and I will stick to that assertion until shown facts to the contrary.
Take a trip to Switzerland, immerse yourself into their culture, laws, values and see if you still feel that way...
Just a few laws they have on the books in ol' Switzerland:
In a small town in Switzerland it is illegal to ride down hills with a bike.
Clothes may not be hung to dry on Sunday.
You may not wash your car on a Sunday.
It is considered an offense to mow your lawn on a Sunday, because it causes too much noise.
It is illegal to flush the toilet after 10 P.
A man may not relieve himself while standing up, after 10 P.
Though it is illegal to produce, store, sell and trade absinth, it is legal to consume it.
It is illegal to ski down a mountain while reciting poetry.
It is required that every car with snow tires has to have a sticker on its dashboard which tells that the driver should not drive faster than 160 km/h with these tires.
If you forget your car-keys inside the car and you leave the car open (unlocked), you will be punished.
It is against the law for any man to unilaterally declare war on another country.
They even have a new law establishing animals right to representation in court. -To appoint a designated attorney representing animals in court? Okay?
Thats just a few...
The funny thing is I have a few friends from Europe who moved here to find employment and start business'; as there home countries will not let them hold a job and start a business on the side; because that would be stealing a job from another citizen who needs it; and you already have one...
No where else in the world can you prosper as you can here by just simply stepping up to action and making it happen yourself. Regulations, licensing and gummint intervention have changed this over the years, but even now it is easier to start a business here and be successful than it is anywhere else in the world.
Also, it bares mentioning that 3/4 of the rest of the world enjoys the comfort they do because we provide security and moneys for them to do so. Without the USA backing them (I could name endless countries that enjoy the freedoms they do by standing on our shoulders so to speak) they would be mounds of dirt.
I can deal with every law you listed except for that one...
I'm gonna say something you'll likely deem ignorant and shoot a bunch of holes in...
America is not the greatest nation on earth. I would live here before living in any other nation. But we are not a great nation. We are the best, but we are not great. We are not a free nation, we are watched by our bloated, omni-present, big-brother government which disregards the constitution which created it. Over-regulation and red tape strangle our economy. We are drowning in debt. We are (largely) uninformed. Our schools do not educate. We charge our citizenry with crimes that should not be crimes.
We are better than anywhere else on earth. But we are not "great" by any measure.
I'm gonna say something you'll likely deem ignorant and shoot a bunch of holes in...
America is not the greatest nation on earth. I would live here before living in any other nation. But we are not a great nation. We are the best, but we are not great. We are not a free nation, we are watched by our bloated, omni-present, big-brother government which disregards the constitution which created it. Over-regulation and red tape strangle our economy. We are drowning in debt. We are (largely) uninformed. Our schools do not educate. We charge our citizenry with crimes that should not be crimes.
We are better than anywhere else on earth. But we are not "great" by any measure.
Amen to that. I agree 100%. We might be the best... but we could be so very much better.
GeorgiaBoy
08-16-12, 00:31
I'm gonna say something you'll likely deem ignorant and shoot a bunch of holes in...
America is not the greatest nation on earth. I would live here before living in any other nation. But we are not a great nation. We are the best, but we are not great. We are not a free nation, we are watched by our bloated, omni-present, big-brother government which disregards the constitution which created it. Over-regulation and red tape strangle our economy. We are drowning in debt. We are (largely) uninformed. Our schools do not educate. We charge our citizenry with crimes that should not be crimes.
We are better than anywhere else on earth. But we are not "great" by any measure.
+1 Well said.
The_War_Wagon
08-16-12, 00:41
If you honestly believe that America is still "the greatest country on earth" then you are delusional, or at best optimistic. Our government and political system is so ****ed up we can't even fathom it.
Ahhh... well there's our misunderstanding. America IS the greatest COUNTRY in the world; our gummint however, is currently run by a Kenyan/Indonesian/British ex-patriate, and sponsored/underwritten, by a turncoat German Jew who sold out to the Nazis, and made his billions by trying to crash the British Pound in the financial markets 20 years ago.
You have mistaken the gummint, for the PEOPLE and the LAND. They are separate, if still semi-related topics... :o
GeorgiaBoy
08-16-12, 01:51
You have mistaken the gummint, for the PEOPLE and the LAND. They are separate, if still semi-related topics... :o
Yeah, I know. But then again, do you really consider the millions of die-hard liberals living in Illinois, New York, and Chicago part of the "people" that make us great?
I mean really. The PEOPLE of America aren't that great either. We live in a welfare, entitlement generation. We live in a era of progressive liberalism and political correctness.
Most importantly, we as a people are so split apart it's not even funny. We can't rally as a whole around anything anymore. There are always going to be two people fighting over something. Libtards vs. Conservatards. Republicans vs. Democrats. You name it there are always two sides.
Its a sad state of affairs.
Most importantly, we as a people are so split apart it's not even funny. We can't rally as a whole around anything anymore. There are always going to be two people fighting over something. Libtards vs. Conservatards. Republicans vs. Democrats. You name it there are always two sides.
Its a sad state of affairs.
This is the history of the world:
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis.
The Batman story is a really great example. His method works by striking fear into criminals and would-be criminals. The thugs in Gotham have to do a cost-benefit analysis before every crime; the possibility of the caped crusader lurking in the shadows is ever present. In this way, Batman's system is highly rational and methodical.
But what happens? Antithesis. The Joker is a man of chaos. He doesn't have to worry about retribution because he doesn't care. He just wants to watch the world burn.
Batman's methodology is suddenly completely ineffective in the face of his perfect antithesis - his perfect villain.
So what does he have to do? He has to give up his principles and become more like the Joker in order to defeat him. Destruction of the thesis and evolution to synthesis. This is almost inevitable.
Any position naturally creates perfect opposition. Look at the post Cold-War US foreign policy. In our competition with the Soviets, we created this massive war-fighting machine. No nation or combination of nations on earth can fight and win a conventional war against the US. When the USSR fell, what could possibly threaten our hegemony? Enter terrorism - the featherweight dancing around the heavyweight, defeating him with a thousand cuts. We're an elephant fighting a thousand mice. Terrorism is our perfect villain. And what have we done to try to defeat them? The EXACT same thing Batman had to do - become more like the villain. We've become oppressive and more totalitarian, we create civilian casualties with drone strikes of dubious benefit, we've resorted to torture, we've invoked our own religion as justification - we've abandoned ourselves and mimicked our enemy. Destruction of the thesis.
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis. Rinse and repeat.
The question is - who but a despot would want it any other way? The wish to be unopposed is the mark of the tyrant.
I would say it was pretty spot-on.
If you honestly believe that America is still "the greatest country on earth" then you are delusional, or at best optimistic. Our government and political system is so ****ed up we can't even fathom it. We are 15 trillion dollars in debt and in the center of a world-wide recession. We are living in a welfare state and turning more socialist every single day. We spend billions fighting a war 7,000 miles a way in a country where people still live in earthen huts. We are struggling to cope with millions of illegal immigrants that have come and are coming across a broken border. Most of our constitutional protections and rights have been almost written away by new laws and executive orders. Today, warrantless searches, indefinite detention, and U.S. citizen assassination are perfectly normal.
I'm sorry, but this is not the greatest country anymore. In fact, I don't know what country is. We are more globalist than ever and the separations of many countries is becoming more and more of a fine line.
I would say that gun rights in this country are one of the last things that keep us a LITTLE bit more free than most other free countries.
+1. This is a zombie empire. It's dead but it doesn't want to admit it yet
This is the history of the world:
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis.
The Batman story is a really great example. His method works by striking fear into criminals and would-be criminals. The thugs in Gotham have to do a cost-benefit analysis before every crime; the possibility of the caped crusader lurking in the shadows is ever present. In this way, Batman's system is highly rational and methodical.
But what happens? Antithesis. The Joker is a man of chaos. He doesn't have to worry about retribution because he doesn't care. He just wants to watch the world burn.
Batman's methodology is suddenly completely ineffective in the face of his perfect antithesis - his perfect villain.
So what does he have to do? He has to give up his principles and become more like the Joker in order to defeat him. Destruction of the thesis and evolution to synthesis. This is almost inevitable.
Any position naturally creates perfect opposition. Look at the post Cold-War US foreign policy. In our competition with the Soviets, we created this massive war-fighting machine. No nation or combination of nation's on earth can fight and win a conventional war against the US. When the USSR fell, what could possibly threaten our hegemony? Enter terrorism - the featherweight dancing around the heavyweight, defeating him with a thousand cuts. We're an elephant fighting a thousand mice. Terrorism is our perfect villain. And what have we done to try to defeat them? The EXACT same thing Batman had to do - become more like the villain. We've become oppressive and more totalitarian, we've created civilian casualties, we've resorted to torture, we've invoked our own religion as justification - we've abandoned ourselves and mimicked our enemy. Destruction of the thesis.
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis. Rinse and repeat.
Great analysis.
Ever think about how roughly every 80 years or so, since the American revolution, the US has gone into a period of intense hardship and war? We're due for another stint right around now.
Cycles. Rinse and repeat.
CarlosDJackal
08-16-12, 08:45
First of all, something about me. I was born and raised in a third-world country, I immigrated to Canada when I was 16, and moved to the United States when I was 19 to join the military. I have over 28-years of combined military service (Active Army, Army National Guard, Inactive National Guard, Inactive Ready Reserve, and Army Reserve) and 9-years experience as a Volunteer Deputy.
If you don't think these United States is the best country on this Earth, THEN ****ING MOVE!!
If you don't think these United States is the best country on this Earth, THEN ****ING MOVE!!
Nah. That would require too much courage and conviction.
This is the history of the world:
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis - antithesis - synthesis - thesis.
The Batman story is a really great example. His method works by striking fear into criminals and would-be criminals. The thugs in Gotham have to do a cost-benefit analysis before every crime; the possibility of the caped crusader lurking in the shadows is ever present. In this way, Batman's system is highly rational and methodical.
But what happens? Antithesis. The Joker is a man of chaos. He doesn't have to worry about retribution because he doesn't care. He just wants to watch the world burn.
Batman's methodology is suddenly completely ineffective in the face of his perfect antithesis - his perfect villain.
So what does he have to do? He has to give up his principles and become more like the Joker in order to defeat him. Destruction of the thesis and evolution to synthesis. This is almost inevitable.
Any position naturally creates perfect opposition. Look at the post Cold-War US foreign policy. In our competition with the Soviets, we created this massive war-fighting machine. No nation or combination of nation's on earth can fight and win a conventional war against the US. When the USSR fell, what could possibly threaten our hegemony? Enter terrorism - the featherweight dancing around the heavyweight, defeating him with a thousand cuts. We're an elephant fighting a thousand mice. Terrorism is our perfect villain. And what have we done to try to defeat them? The EXACT same thing Batman had to do - become more like the villain. We've become oppressive and more totalitarian, we create civilian casualties with drone strikes of dubious benefit, we've resorted to torture, we've invoked our own religion as justification - we've abandoned ourselves and mimicked our enemy. Destruction of the thesis.
Thesis - antithesis - synthesis. Rinse and repeat.
The question is - who but a despot would want it any other way? The wish to be unopposed is the mark of the tyrant.
Best post in the thread. Spot-on analysis of the bigger picture.
If you don't think these United States is the best country on this Earth, THEN ****ING MOVE!!
I'm so ****ing sick of this horseshit.
More than one founding father believed that descent is the highest form of patriotism.
I don't buy into "My country, wrong or right.". How'd that work for the nazis or the imperial Japanese? I won't blindly help to dig any nations' pit for their own. Where there is liberty, that is where my country is.
"iI euw doan lahk 'mercuh, euw kin GIT OUT!!"
"That's raht!! Euw tellem Skeeter!"
I'm so ****ing sick of this horseshit.
You missed his whole point.
More than one founding father believed that descent is the highest form of patriotism.
"dissent"
I don't buy into "My country, wrong or right.". How'd that work for the nazis or the imperial Japanese? I won't blindly help to dig any nations' pit for their own. Where there is liberty, that is where my country is.
"iI euw doan lahk 'mercuh, euw kin GIT OUT!!"
"That's raht!! Euw tellem Skeeter!"
That is not what he said.
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I'm so ****ing sick of this horseshit.
More than one founding father believed that descent is the highest form of patriotism.
I don't buy into "My country, wrong or right.". How'd that work for the nazis or the imperial Japanese? I won't blindly help to dig any nations' pit for their own. Where there is liberty, that is where my country is.
"iI euw doan lahk 'mercuh, euw kin GIT OUT!!"
"That's raht!! Euw tellem Skeeter!"
Never go full redneck...even I can't understand that shit without a translator.
Misdirected rage? I'm pretty sure Carlos isn't inbred.
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