View Full Version : needed accessories and/or upgrades
zombiescometh
08-16-12, 08:49
I was wondering what top ten actually needed accessories and/or upgrades you would want or suggest for an out of box ar15.
Army Chief
08-16-12, 08:53
1. Quality 2-point sling.
2. Quality weapon-mounted light.
3. Quality Red Dot Sight (RDS).
In other words, a VCAS, a SureFire and an Aimpoint.
Done.
AC
1. Quality 2-point sling.
2. Quality weapon-mounted light.
3. Quality Red Dot Sight (RDS).
In other words, a VCAS, a SureFire and an Aimpoint.
Done.
AC
That does it.
Dare I say, in that order, too.
Though I'd get the sling and the light at the same time.
zombiescometh
08-16-12, 09:17
ok trying not to sound too sarcastic but im just curious if thats really all i need. just wondering if i might need some buis, extra mags, certain sling attachment points, does the surefire come with all different attachments for different forends, do i need an higher mount for the RDS if i have the standard front sight, a buttstock that can hold batterys for the surefire, etc, etc,. sorry if i didnt explain it fully in the first post.
Top 10? :fie:
I'd be hard pressed to find 10 things I could stand to put on a gun without puking.
zombiescometh
08-16-12, 09:25
well i didnt ask for ten things to put on a gun i agree that is nonsense.
Proteinshake
08-16-12, 09:30
How about just going with the sling for now and shooting the hell out of it first? Then down the road you will find that there are some accessories you need or don't need.
How about just going with the sling for now and shooting the hell out of it first? Then down the road you will find that there are some accessories you need or don't need.
This is sound advice. Get used to iron sights if you've never used them before.
Then move onto Army Chief's advice. Although I'd add a Moe handguard to make mounting the light a bit easier.
ok trying not to sound too sarcastic but im just curious if thats really all i need. just wondering if i might need some buis, extra mags, certain sling attachment points, does the surefire come with all different attachments for different forends, do i need an higher mount for the RDS if i have the standard front sight, a buttstock that can hold batterys for the surefire, etc, etc,. sorry if i didnt explain it fully in the first post.
Sling attachment points, buis, rds mount height, and stock are all variable based on preference. I'd suggest looking at some in person first.
Depending on what model light you with you may have to buy a separate mount. The Light sub forum is a good place to start. (http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
Extra mags are always a good idea along with stocking up on ammo.
Most would probably recommend Pmags or GI mags with Magpul followers.
zombiescometh
08-16-12, 09:47
Sorry for the confusion i blame myself for leaving out some needed facts. I have used ar15s quite a lot mostly a loaner from my brother or using friends. I will putting one on layaway soon since right now i do not have the funds. I have a general idea of what i like on the gun but i wanted to see if there were things i dont really need vertical grip, different stock, laser/lights etc etc or if i should upgrade somethings like trigger, forend, pistol grip, iron sights etc etc. hope that helped.
Army Chief
08-16-12, 10:08
To get started on the road to competence ...
You need a rifle, ammunition and magazines.
As your skills and training grow ...
You will want a sling, light and (eventually) an RDS.
Everything else is pretty much poseur fare, unless you have a specific reason for adding it (i.e. needed capability for a particular role); and in that case, the questions will generally answer themselves. What you don't want -- at least, on a site like M4C -- is to become the guy rigging a rifle with extraneous crap that serves no purpose beyond making for a very heavy carbine that photographs well.
In these parts, we tend to favor stripped-down carbines that are set up for the 0-100m fight, day or night -- and that means simplicity. Modularity always affords flexibility for the future, of course, but I would steer well of the aftermarket affliction that seems to be so widespread in the community at large. A basic rifle in skilled hands is much to be preferred over a well-appointed rifle in the hands of a tacticlown.
AC
Other than the sling/whitelight/RDS doctrine
1.Ammo/magazines
2.Practice/Training
3.More Ammo
4.More Practice/training
5.More Ammo,Practice,and or Training
Worry less about shopping lists and more about shooting the gun.
zombiescometh
08-16-12, 10:33
ok well with all this great advice i put together a list. let me know what you think.
1. Training
2. Practice
3. Mags and ammo
4. BUIS
5. Sling
6. Light with mount
7. RDS with mount
8. Better buttstock
9. Better charging handle
10. Better pistol grip.
If left handed, an ambi selector. Not absolutely necessary but really useful.
Army Chief
08-16-12, 11:04
ok well with all this great advice i put together a list. let me know what you think.
1. Training
2. Practice
3. Mags and ammo
Absolutely on the right track.
4. BUIS
Maybe. This will really depend upon the configuration of your rifle. You shouldn't have to add backup sights to the primary sights that come on your new factory rifle, and unless you're getting a full carry handle and want to mount optics later, this may be a complete non-factor.
5. Sling
6. Light with mount
Both are pretty important. The sling as a means of retention and control, and the light to allow you to safely and competently use the rifle during low illumination and/or indoors.
7. RDS with mount
Does not add accuracy, so much as it will add speed and ease of use in non-standard shooting positions. In other words, an RDS is nice to have in time, but not essential kit from Day One.
8. Better buttstock
9. Better charging handle
10. Better pistol grip.
I would challenge these, simply because "better" is completely subjective on most cases. If you want to do a top-to-bottom Magpul retrofit and add a Gunfighter CH, go for it, but don't think for a second that stock furniture and a GI CH are going to hold you back; especially when you're just starting out. Keep in mind that we've been fighting two wars for the past ten years using rifles that generally have none of these components. Again, let time and experience drive these purchases -- not catalog surfing or picture envy. Like most, I have come to favor specific stocks, grips and CHs, but I've also spent a lot of money on the journey to get to this point, and most of it was probably wasted.
The best way to handle this is to get training, and spend time with others who share your priorities. As you spend more time around their rifles and try out some of their configurations, you'll figure out what suits you best. That can't be done long distance, however; you've got to get hands-on -- preferably in a range environment. If you put the cart before the horse (as we all have at one point or another), you'll just end up selling off parts that you don't like (at a loss) in order to buy other parts that you probably won't like much, either.
AC
ok trying not to sound too sarcastic but im just curious if thats really all i need. just wondering if i might need some buis, extra mags, certain sling attachment points, does the surefire come with all different attachments for different forends, do i need an higher mount for the RDS if i have the standard front sight, a buttstock that can hold batterys for the surefire, etc, etc,. sorry if i didnt explain it fully in the first post.
Those are all common sense items. Do you need back up irons? Huurrrr.... Yeah. Matter of fact, skip the rds and shoot with only irons for he time being
trackmagic
08-16-12, 12:44
This is my personal list in the order I would buy if I did it again (I target shoot and hunt cyotes and deer)
1) RDS (I like the Vortex Strikefire for the money)
2) Reduced angle pistol grip (This is personal preference, but I like RA)
3) Sling (Your preference here)
4) Rail that attaches to your handguard (I rarely use it, but they are handy when you want to add an accessory)
5) 2nd upper with match barrel and high mag rifle scope. I use my RDS and carbine for hunting brush and I like the scope on more open terrain.
6) Good trigger for when I take longer shots
7) Light for hunting cyotes at night (legal in Oregon if doing it for a landowner)
8) Vertical grip (when I use my rail I like to use this because it is more comfortable to hold than the rail)
9) Better stock (This might be higher on the list, but I have not tried one yet. I am thinking of buying a vltor and trying it)
10) Anything that makes my carbine lighter
Most of the time I do not use most of the stuff on the list and I remove it from my gun, but the thing I like about ARs is how configurable they are. I tailor it to what I am doing at any given time. I remove stuff if I am not using it. I like my gun light.
Your list will be different, but that is mine.
Of course ammo and practice is important, but I did not think that is the answer you were looking for.
1) Case of ammo
2) 4-5 mags
3) Optic (scope, red dot, or eotech) depending on target and ranges
4) 2 point sling and mounts (I like QD's on the rail and butt-stock)
5) Membership to a range to shoot
6) Shoot
8) I like a bipod for range work
7) Buy more ammo, take a class, shoot more
8) Furniture to fit what you now know needs to be changed/if needed (Stock/rail, etc if you want it)
Don't waste your money on heavy stuff hanging all over the weapon
9) Rifle case
10) Cleaning stuff
Ideally you want two uppers- light weight, short carbine for stand up shooting and a heavy barrel, scoped range toy.
2) 4-5 mags
4-5 mags? That wouldn't even fill half of my deuce gear! :p
40-50 mags would be better. Especially with Hussein in the Membrane trolling the White House.
piesandcheese
08-16-12, 14:18
What is your intended use for the rifle? Hunting, competition, long distance accuracy, combat?
I use my rifle for home defense and distance target shooting. These are two completely different worlds requiring two different setups. Unfortunately, I can't afford a second upper at the moment, but in the mean-time I have found a pretty good compromise for both applications.
I have an Aimpoint PRO that I keep in the same spot on the rifle at all times. When I head to the range, I pop on my Mako 7x magnifier with a quick detach mount.
My quad rail was irritating my hands, so I use Larue Index Clips (stippled around the actual grip area) along with a DD Vert Grip as a hand stop.
Since most of my shooting is bench rested, I also keep a folding bipod on hand to slap on when I go to the range.
So at home, the rifle sits next to the bed with the Aimpoint and a flashlight being the only accessories. All it takes to prepare for the range trip is slapping on a magnifier and the bipod.
Gotta love the modularity of the AR :D
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-99fA8Z_Jtd4/UAT2iAUyJAI/AAAAAAAAAnM/dfwzMunC1h4/s720/DDM4V5-1-web.jpg
1. Quality 2-point sling.
2. Quality weapon-mounted light.
3. Quality Red Dot Sight (RDS).
In other words, a VCAS, a SureFire and an Aimpoint.
Done.
AC
Agreed.
ok well with all this great advice i put together a list. let me know what you think.
1. Training
2. Practice
3. Mags and ammo
4. BUIS
5. Sling
6. Light with mount
7. RDS with mount
8. Better buttstock
9. Better charging handle
10. Better pistol grip.
In this order, 3, 2, 1, 4, 5, 6, 7.
It is my personal opinion that you should look at AR's that come with the MagPul furniture already installed as it is more comfortable than the standard AR furniture and you can always sell it if you decide to go with rails or find a grip or stock you like better. But to me the hand gaurds and pistol grip alone are worth it. Colt, S&W, Sig and Bushmaster are a few I know of that sell AR's with the MagPul stuff already installed. Again, this is just my opinion so YMMV.
4-5 mags? That wouldn't even fill half of my deuce gear! :p
.
HAHA, that almost cost me a new computer screen!! Very true
I'm surprised nobody asked what rifle you're getting. So what is it?
This plus a few magazines and a pile of ammo is all you need to get started
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/PSA001.jpg
This is about what your carbine should look like. Rails are expensive and sometimes heavy and you don't need them to add usable accessories to most personal use rifles. I added a sling using the front sling swivel and an HK hook in the front and a QD cup at the rear. I don't use a vertical grip or AFG, but if I wanted one, I could either add a short section of rail to my MOE or (more likely) fab something up.
If a light is wanted, again a short section of rail can be added, something fabbed or a Mossie Midnight Mount used
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_A.jpg
I much prefer the Gunfighter charging handle but had little trouble operating my AR with the GI charging handle. The GI trigger started off gritty when dry, yet smoothed out quite a bit with a light application of grease to the sears and the trigger and hammer pin.
Follow Army Chief's advice- buy a basic carbine similar in configuration to the photo above and shoot it. You may find you need very few extra accessories
Except the fact I just swapped the Magpul Buis for a KAC 600 meter sight (got one new in the wrapper for a price I couldn't refuse), this is what my carbine now looks like
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0012-1.jpg
A slightly different spin. When I build up a new carbine for myself or the household, I do the following.
1. Replace carbine tube with an A5, spring and buffer.
2. Better trigger- rich man Geissele, poor man QMS.
3. Battle Arms Selector Lever.
4. BCM GunfighterMod 4.
Accessories = 3 (first suggested post)
Upgrade from stock = personal preference. Some people like some sort of forward grip, some don't. Large variety of FCG's to choose from, as well as rails, grips, stocks, charging handles, muzzle devices, BUIS...that list can go on and on.
Get some range time in, and be friendly. You will likely come across someone with a slicked out rifle and let you test drive it to see how you like the trigger, rail, muzzle device, stock, grip....
I actually can get into a question like this. It's not about pimping out the gun into something ridiculous, but it's reasonable for an AR beginner to be directed towards some things he/she might need that don't come with an AR. Some of us have come to take them for granted because we're so familiar with it, but to me, there are some necessary add-on's to an out of the box AR (assuming it includes sights):
1) Magazines
2) Ammunition
3) Lube
4) Chamber Brush & Rod (I like Dewey)
5) Sling
6) Training
7) White Light
8) Optical sight suited to purpose (Red Dot for defensive)
9) Furniture changes based on user preference
10) Additional training to stay sharp and refine gear choices
zombiescometh
08-17-12, 10:30
That took a long time for someone to understand my question. thanks for the help.
Gee dude, I think lots of guys understood your question.
I actually can get into a question like this. It's not about pimping out the gun into something ridiculous, but it's reasonable for an AR beginner to be directed towards some things he/she might need that don't come with an AR. Some of us have come to take them for granted because we're so familiar with it, but to me, there are some necessary add-on's to an out of the box AR (assuming it includes sights):
1) Magazines
2) Ammunition
3) Lube
4) Chamber Brush & Rod (I like Dewey)
5) Sling
6) Training
7) White Light
8) Optical sight suited to purpose (Red Dot for defensive)
9) Furniture changes based on user preference
10) Additional training to stay sharp and refine gear choices
Make number 10 into number 1
Army Chief
08-17-12, 20:14
Gee dude, I think lots of guys understood your question.
Agreed. The only thing about the opening post that really left any potential room for misunderstanding was/is the OP's username itself.
AC
LowandLeft
08-17-12, 20:37
That took a long time for someone to understand my question. thanks for the help.
Wow, how about a little gratitude for the men that took the time to answer your vague question? Read more, post less.
Agreed.
In this order, 3, 2, 1, 4, 5, 6, 7.
It is my personal opinion that you should look at AR's that come with the MagPul furniture already installed as it is more comfortable than the standard AR furniture and you can always sell it if you decide to go with rails or find a grip or stock you like better. But to me the hand gaurds and pistol grip alone are worth it. Colt, S&W, Sig and Bushmaster are a few I know of that sell AR's with the MagPul stuff already installed. Again, this is just my opinion so YMMV.
In what situation would a sling not be needed for training? A quality sling like Vickers should be in the front of the list.
This can get out of hand quick given the golden age of AR-15/M16/M4 rifles and variants that we live in. What was stated by AC others is what you asked for OP. No need to look further. Only you will be able to decide what you want after the basics.
I'm still curious to know what you rifle you're getting at what its purposes are.
rifle accessories (http://www.everycitizenasoldier.org/id33.html)
of course your purpose might be far different from the guy who wrote that
In what situation would a sling not be needed for training? A quality sling like Vickers should be in the front of the list.
True,
3, 4, and 5 should all be purchased with the rifle.
fallenangelhim
08-17-12, 22:56
The original question stated for an out of the box AR. I imagine this means I go to pick up my AR rifle and I ask for these items before I leave the store or go online immediately. In the order I would do them in.
1. Ammunition. A mixed bag of different weights, brands, and quality.
2. Magazines. Most modern AR packages come with 1 magazine. Polymer or USGI, your choice.
3. A quality sling. Nothing ghetto.
4. A buttstock you are comfortable with. If you are okay with your factory stock, proceed to #5.
5. Quality quad rail/handguard w/ rail. Nothing Ghetto. Free float preferred for 18-20 inch heavy long barrel.
6. Quality Red Dot. If you have to ask "do you think this is an okay brand" then it isn't. All "good" brands have been reviewed and approved by most of M4C.
7. Vertical Foregrip or Angled Foregrip. Not necessary, if you are comfortable holding handguard/rail. Skip to #8.
8. A quality Fighting/Tactical Carbine class.
9. Spend time on M4Carbine.
10. Build your own M4.
True,
3, 4, and 5 should all be purchased with the rifle.
Sounds fair to me :)
fallenromeo
08-17-12, 23:32
AC hit the nail on the head.
What is your intended use for the rifle? Hunting, competition, long distance accuracy, combat?
P&C has it right - this is the first thing we need to know. You already got a lot of solid advice here, assuming you want to train and become proficient with it.
Not everyone has that goal, however. Last time I went to the range was with a friend who got an AR for "showing off" (yes, his exact words). After owning it for over a year, he has one 10-round mag, no ammo, and balks at buying any right now (because it used to be 25 cents a round). I asked him why it has an AAC Brakeout, and he said his A2 couldn't compete with louder muzzle brakes at the range. His Aimpoint PRO has a killflash... but isn't zeroed.
I just shake my head and quietly sigh....
zombiescometh
08-18-12, 03:44
I actually can get into a question like this. It's not about pimping out the gun into something ridiculous, but it's reasonable for an AR beginner to be directed towards some things he/she might need that don't come with an AR. Some of us have come to take them for granted because we're so familiar with it, but to me, there are some necessary add-on's to an out of the box AR (assuming it includes sights):
1) Magazines
2) Ammunition
3) Lube
4) Chamber Brush & Rod (I like Dewey)
5) Sling
6) Training
7) White Light
8) Optical sight suited to purpose (Red Dot for defensive)
9) Furniture changes based on user preference
10) Additional training to stay sharp and refine gear choices
Sorry to the other posters for not thanking them for their posts. The reason I commented on his post he way I did was because he improved on my question greatly and answered it well.
Agreed. The only thing about the opening post that really left any potential room for misunderstanding was/is the OP's username itself.
AC
Sorry if you don't like my username didn't realized it mattered so much. Its not like I asked what the best zombie killing gun is. I just happen to be on the sarcastic side.
Wow, how about a little gratitude for the men that took the time to answer your vague question? Read more, post less.
Again sorry for the poor wording of my statement. Ill make sure in the future to respond to every persons post on a thread I start. I wouldnt want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Magic_Salad0892
08-18-12, 03:44
1.) Light + Mount
2.) Sling + Mounts
3.) RDS + Mount
4.) Extra Magazines (about 10-15)
5.) Tons of ammo
6.) VLTOR A5 system.
Everything else comes after you figure out what you need.
zombiescometh
08-18-12, 03:46
Thanks for your post.
wetidlerjr
08-18-12, 04:24
Thanks for your post.
This is a tough crowd to play to. Hang in here and you will learn much. :D
zombiescometh
08-18-12, 04:31
This is a tough crowd to play to. Hang in here and you will learn much. :D
Oh I know I've been reading quite a bit. Definitely one of the most helpful sites out there.
Sorry to the other posters for not thanking them for their posts. The reason I commented on his post he way I did was because he improved on my question greatly and answered it well.
Sorry if you don't like my username didn't realized it mattered so much. Its not like I asked what the best zombie killing gun is. I just happen to be on the sarcastic side.
Again sorry for the poor wording of my statement. Ill make sure in the future to respond to every persons post on a thread I start. I wouldnt want to hurt anyone's feelings.
You asked, I answered and later it was implied I didn't understand the question. I just figured YOU didn't understand the question because I know how almost every noobie has answered the same question for themselves in the past. They either get it and start with a basic carbine made by a reputable manufacturer, or they don't and it becomes a train wreck.
No need to dish out thanks to each and every post.
Sarcasm is ok. We have lots of it to go around. Welcome to the forums
turnnwrench
08-18-12, 13:04
Here is my two cents. YMMV. Listen to the senior members recomendations. Good sling, lots and lots of ammo and mags. Don't waste your money on a cheap rds, just cause its cool. Shoot it...alot. if you don't like the a2 grip and forend try magpul...fairly cheap to try different grips. After reading lots on this forum I purchased a 6920, bought a Vtac sling, buying mags as funds allow up to 6 so far. Swapped out the a2 for a moe+, and put a moe forend on. Absolutely love my rifle. One mistake, bought a sightmark rds POS. Now selling the sightmark to save for an Aimpoint.
For the question:
obviously mags/ammo/training/buis - I dont consider those accessories, more like necesseties as your gun does not work without them
light, sling, and most likely rds(or scope depending on use) would be top 3.
which to buy is a decision only you can make. You need to shoot it a LOT to figure out what will really help you. I have found a longer handguard helps... Its a waste of $ for some people.
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