View Full Version : advice for first AR
zombiescometh
08-17-12, 10:26
ok so i configured four different choices. tell me what you think.
Noveske Light Recce Basic $1530
Daniel Defense V5 $1530
BCM Gunfighter charging handle
BCM Gunfighter Pistol grip
Colt LE6920 Magpul $1550
Geissele SDCT
Vortex SPARC
Magpul Multi Mission sling
BCM Mid-16 Mod-0 $1548
Geissele SDCT
Magpul STR stock
Magpul Rear BUIS
Troy Medevial Flash suppressor
BCM Gunfighter Pistol grip
Magpul MOE vertical grip
Magpul Multi Mission sling
anyone of those rifles in standard config. is a great option. If its your 1st AR, you dont even need a Geissele trigger because you may not appreciate it, and the expense could be allocated toward a light or RDS. Personally, I would go with the Noveske.
jasonhgross
08-17-12, 10:49
I vote for the noveske. Add light, sling, and optic, and you are GTG. Not much else to think about or be concerned about. Even comes with the Gunfighter charging handle.
It looks like you have a set budget, so I'd say go with the Colt or BCM base models, buy a good sling, a light, and then an Aimpoint Pro and get some ammo and training. For a first ar the Geissele is overkill, use the saving from the trigger and put it towards an Aimpoint instead of the sparc. The troy medieval flash hider is garbage, stick with the A2 already installed. If you want to upgrade your muzzle device later go with a Battlecomp.
piesandcheese
08-17-12, 11:15
dont answer, dont answer, dont answer...
If its your 1st AR, you dont even deserve a Geissele trigger because you wont appreciate it.
He doesn't deserve a nice trigger unless he's got more than one rifle? That's a load of crap. Op, there's nothing wrong with replacing a lesser part for a much nicer one. I agree that you would appreciate it more if you had some trigger time with the stock setup, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't spring for the Geissele. You will be very happy with it.
Out of your listed setups, it looks like your best deal will be the Colt. You wouldn't be disappointed with any of those rifles, though. My first rifle was a Daniel Defense v5 and I couldn't be more pleased with it.
If you plan on babying the rifle and only using it for light target shooting, I'd go with the Daniel Defense. It's not that the DD isn't capable of being a battle rifle. It excels in all areas. The DD's tend to have a nicer fit and finish than the Colts. This is completely irrelevant in most scenarios, but if it's your first rifle and you only plan on using it at a range (and admiring it in the safe), then you might as well go with something that has a flawless finish. The F&F shouldn't be of any consideration for a fighting rifle, but it doesn't hurt to have a really nice looking rifle (if only for personal admiration of it's good looks).
Shit, I'm rambling. Go buy a rifle. Any of the 3. Just do it.
Yeah... what is the reason for the Geissele?
I mean... it's an outstanding product and all... but I'm curious what has caused you to want it for a gun you haven't even tried out yet?
zombiescometh
08-17-12, 11:28
Well i like the idea of a trigger thats more durable, lighter pull, and the design. but really it was the extra option that brought the BCM and Colt to the same price as the Noveske and DD.
jonconsiglio
08-17-12, 11:30
Buy any of the three as they come out of the box. Shoot it and take some classes. Once you figure out what you want to do with it, then maybe you should consider triggers. I love the SSA, but it's certainly or needed.
Sling, light and maybe an optic for now. Worry about handguards, triggers and other accessories later. Just an opinion, I know lately people feel the need to overload a rifle they've never shot with items they think are a benefit. That's not an insult, I've done it before as well (with other things besides ARs), but I learned from my mistakes.
zombiescometh
08-17-12, 11:34
Do you feel that im overloading those rifles?
He doesn't deserve a nice trigger unless he's got more than one rifle? That's a load of crap. Op, there's nothing wrong with replacing a lesser part for a much nicer one. I agree that you would appreciate it more if you had some trigger time with the stock setup, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't spring for the Geissele. You will be very happy with it.
Out of your listed setups, it looks like your best deal will be the Colt. You wouldn't be disappointed with any of those rifles, though. My first rifle was a Daniel Defense v5 and I couldn't be more pleased with it.
If you plan on babying the rifle and only using it for light target shooting, I'd go with the Daniel Defense. It's not that the DD isn't capable of being a battle rifle. It excels in all areas. The DD's tend to have a nicer fit and finish than the Colts. This is completely irrelevant in most scenarios, but if it's your first rifle and you only plan on using it at a range (and admiring it in the safe), then you might as well go with something that has a flawless finish. The F&F shouldn't be of any consideration for a fighting rifle, but it doesn't hurt to have a really nice looking rifle (if only for personal admiration of it's good looks).
Shit, I'm rambling. Go buy a rifle. Any of the 3. Just do it.
OK, perhaps "deserve" should have been "need." Its just going to save OP money to not invest in that part at inception.
Well i like the idea of a trigger thats more durable, lighter pull, and the design. but really it was the extra option that brought the BCM and Colt to the same price as the Noveske and DD.
Cool. You'll love the trigger. Pappabear runs a ton of them. I'm a bone stock trigger guy.
jonconsiglio
08-17-12, 11:57
Do you feel that im overloading those rifles?
Not at all man, I apologize if it came off that way. What I'm seeing lately is a lot of guys saying they want their first AR. Then others chiming in telling them to get what equates to a $3,500 rig with no mention of training.
If it was up to me, everyone would spend their first month with a stock AR like the 6920 or a similar BCM and attend a class or two. not because I feel everyone needs to master iron, just so they can understand what they really want and what the benefits are.
I can't tell you the number of cops I work with that have an Aimpoint or EoTech but never really learned to use it. So, when they come up from a ready position, they try to center the dot in the optic instead of catching a quick flash of it on the target and firing. They got the gear, but never learned how to truly use it. For many, I can remove the optic and their first shot times will be similar.
That's just one example. I'd start with a somewhat basic rifle. Learn the trigger then upgrade if needed. Remember, most triggers won't be faster, though they may be more precise, more consistent and hel a bit in the accuracy department.
If you want a new rifle with an SSA, that cool. I wouldn't recommend anything lighter than that. I'd probably recommend, if one feels they must have a new trigger, to try the ALG trigger that is basically a cleaned up GI trigger, or at most, the SSA.
Again, this is just an opinion. I work with shooters quite regularly, and I've seen the benefit of starting with a stock rifle and working up. Even if it's only a very short time. I know it's not as cool, but it will likely make you more effective.
I think a great starting point is the Colt 6920 with just a Magpul hand guard and possibly a new grip as the A2 can irritate some guys. Add a quality sling like the VCAS or VTAC, for example, a cheaper Surefire in a quality mount and if you feel you need an optic, buy quality, even if it's used. You can easily get into a Comp M2 used for a little under $300.
How about the Noveske, for $155 cheaper?
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/NVR-LR-MOE.aspx
Skip the trigger upgrade and buy the Colt and Aimpoint combo. ( yes the Aimpoint is that much better than the Vortex.)
Feed the pony lots of ammo, and do dry fire practice. See where you are at trigger wise after several thousand rounds/practice fires.
Most importantly brands and things aside get a gun and shoot it. Shoot it alot. Thats all that matters, every other add on or cool piece of gear is all trumped by trigger time.
Obsess on marksmanship not shopping lists.
My Vote would be:
BCM Mid-16 Mod-0 $1,550
Aimpoint Pro
Magpul Rear BUIS
Vickers Sling
remington79
08-17-12, 14:04
I bought a Colt LE6920 last month. It's my first AR platform rifle, though I have shot them in the past. I bought it with the Magpul set up. It came with the Magpul grip, VFG, stock, handguard, and rear sight.
I haven't been able to shoot it yet because of some medical problems but I have been practicing dry firing. However, after doing some research before I bought it and handling it since I bought it I can say that it is the set up I want. It is bare bones and nothing flashy. the handguard gives me the option to add one of the few things on it that I want, a flashlight while keeping the weight down. As for the stock Colt trigger I don't find anything wrong with it. I don't find it too heavy and it has a very short reset with no take up before it breaks again. I'm used to the sights already because they are just like the ones on my M1A. I actually prefer the peep sights like that so much that I even put them on my 22 rifle.
Besides a flashlight the only things I'm going to add is a red dot, a BCM MOD4 charging handle, and a VCAS sling. Even then those aren't a priority for me. I'll probably get the sling first and the flashlight or charging handle second. I don't mind running irons for awhile.
I guess what I'm getting at is like the others have stated, buy a quality rifle. There is no need to get carried away from the get go. Just learn the platform. You know, the basics like maintenance and malfunction drills. I had to look into all of that as my only previous experience was limited to shooting the platform. So, I came here and started to read the stickies and threads. One of the pros of the AR platform is that it is light and quick handling. People tend to put too much stuff on there and it ends up as heavy as an M1A.
From all I have read over the years, I would go with Bravo Company for quality and above all customer service. I have had several dealings with Colt on 1911 problems and their customer service is terrible.
Bravo Company has all of my AR-15 business.
He doesn't deserve a nice trigger unless he's got more than one rifle? That's a load of crap.
I didn't hear sadmin give any attitude when giving advice. Good advice or bad advice why don't you cool down the attitude. It helps nothing.
-Jax
piesandcheese
08-18-12, 09:06
I'm not trying to start any wars here. I just think it was a very strong choice of words to tell someone they don't deserve something.
That can be construed as very "snobby" or "holier than thou". I didn't want the op to think this community was anything like that.
Sadmin already agreed that his post came off strong. Sometimes text can be very misleading without actually hearing the tone of someones voice. I apologize for any confusion. I don't want to "rustle any jimmies". I'm only here to learn and give advice where I can.
I bought a Colt LE6920 last month. It's my first AR platform rifle, though I have shot them in the past. I bought it with the Magpul set up. It came with the Magpul grip, VFG, stock, handguard, and rear sight.
I haven't been able to shoot it yet because of some medical problems but I have been practicing dry firing. However, after doing some research before I bought it and handling it since I bought it I can say that it is the set up I want. It is bare bones and nothing flashy. the handguard gives me the option to add one of the few things on it that I want, a flashlight while keeping the weight down. As for the stock Colt trigger I don't find anything wrong with it. I don't find it too heavy and it has a very short reset with no take up before it breaks again. I'm used to the sights already because they are just like the ones on my M1A. I actually prefer the peep sights like that so much that I even put them on my 22 rifle.
Besides a flashlight the only things I'm going to add is a red dot, a BCM MOD4 charging handle, and a VCAS sling. Even then those aren't a priority for me. I'll probably get the sling first and the flashlight or charging handle second. I don't mind running irons for awhile.
I guess what I'm getting at is like the others have stated, buy a quality rifle. There is no need to get carried away from the get go. Just learn the platform. You know, the basics like maintenance and malfunction drills. I had to look into all of that as my only previous experience was limited to shooting the platform. So, I came here and started to read the stickies and threads. One of the pros of the AR platform is that it is light and quick handling. People tend to put too much stuff on there and it ends up as heavy as an M1A.There is some wisdom here, FWIW.
I have found that the ALG combat trigger is a nice upgrade over the stock trigger and it $65 it is a great deal. I even replaced a KAC 2 stage on one of my carbines with the ACT trigger. It's basically a stock trigger that has been coated with some super slick coating so it doesn't have any of the grittiness of the stocker. You'll really appreciate it after shooting with the stock trigger for a while.
Littlehendrick
08-18-12, 11:08
Another option might be to buy your noveske upper, and build the lower. We have stripped noveske lowers for 210 at my shop currently, or you can run another brand lower for even less. Find a palmetto state armory lower build kit you like for cheap, and follow the tutorial on how to build a lower. (Don't forget a turkey bag....launching springs across the room is a pain). It isn't rocket science, I had no experience at all, and it was a short build. I found it to be a way to make the rifle more affordable so you have more money left for an optic/light.
Just food for thought, all the rifles you have selected are nice, and I wish I had that budget when I started out! Good luck.
This might be worth a look at G&R Tactical. Grant has these in stock.
BCM Blemished Lower $285
BCM M4 Buttstock $ 20
BCM 16" Mid-Length Lightweight Upper $439
BCM Bolt Carrier Group $149
BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle $ 44
Magpul Midlength MOE Handguard $32
Total $969
Just add a rear sight of your choosing and your off to the range. You might find out that the buttstock, grip, and handguard works for you just fine. If not, you only invested $52 in the furniture department and you can go on and modify to fit your needs.
À la carte versus a complete gun from a reputable manufacturer? I'd keep it simple. Get yourself a Colt 6920 MOE and head to the range. The Colt will hold its resale value better than any parts gun will, or so I suspect.
FWIW
I'm not trying to start any wars here. I just think it was a very strong choice of words to tell someone they don't deserve something.
That can be construed as very "snobby" or "holier than thou". I didn't want the op to think this community was anything like that.
Sadmin already agreed that his post came off strong. Sometimes text can be very misleading without actually hearing the tone of someones voice. I apologize for any confusion. I don't want to "rustle any jimmies". I'm only here to learn and give advice where I can.
Hey, no problem brother. I appreciate the reply!
-Jax
My only argument against upgrading triggers and the like is that the stock Colt unit isn't bad, and that money is the difference between a Vortex optic (meh) and an Aimpoint H-1 on a riser mount - then you have a solid rifle AND a solid optic. Handguards, Triggers, and aftermarket stuff can come later, and is easy to install after the fact - sinking initial cost into parts you probably won't keep is a bit inefficient.
I too would seriously look at G&R for a BCM Blemished lower (they're great, and I'm convinced very few even have blemishes - mine sure doesn't), and an affordable upper (LMT 16", BCM 16" Middy, Colt 6920 or 6720 Upper, or DD V#). My favorite budget rifle is a BCM Blem lower and a DD V5 Upper - complete cost under $1100 for the base hardware, and it only needed a light, Aimpoint H1, and MBUS to be complete.
The Geissele triggers are amazing. Truly. Start with a stock trigger, and THEN you'll appreciate the difference. Hard to notice the difference on my shorter light rifles, but it's night and day on my precision units. Wait, save up for them (as they are addicting), and mostly see if you can get a chance to try a few of them as well. It isn't a questions of deserve, it's a question of will $200 be better spent on 600 rounds of practice ammunition, or a smoother trigger that break 1.5# lighter (hint, it's the former on a new rifle - I'm one of the idiots that has gotten it the other way around, and only after spending $400 did I realize my mistake).
. . .
I think a great starting point is the Colt 6920 with just a Magpul hand guard and possibly a new grip as the A2 can irritate some guys. Add a quality sling like the VCAS or VTAC, for example, a cheaper Surefire in a quality mount and if you feel you need an optic, buy quality, even if it's used. You can easily get into a Comp M2 used for a little under $300.
Where can I find a comp M2 for $300?
Thank you,
Chris
Please delete - I'm stoopid ;)
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