New MI Gen 2 FF rail [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

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JoeSixPack

08-18-12, 14:40

After trying a bunch of rails (DD, Centurion, etc) I think I've finally found the one I like.

The Midwest Industries Gen 2 Two Piece FF rail.

Here's what I like about the MI rail.

#1. Big beefy hex screws that are easy to tighten. One of my gripes with the DD Omega I had was the teeny little hex screws at a hard to get to angle.

#2. All the big beefy hex screws are the same size. This was one of my gripes with the Centurion. It used two different sized hex screws. One size at the barrel nut, and different smaller size at the front.

#3. QD sockets on both ends of the rail. Neither the Omega or Centurion 7" rail had QD sockets on both ends. The lack of QD sockets was the main reason I never tried the DD 7.62 Lite Rail™ 7.0, Carbine. Something about having to add another oz. of weight with a rail mounted QD socket just drives me nuts.

#4. Antirotation tabs. The Omega didn't have these.

#5. Lightweight. MI rail weighs 9oz. The Omega is a little less at 7.6oz but The Omega requires the Delta right, spring, and c-clip (1.18oz) where these get removed with the MI rail. Installed, the Omega and MI rail are pretty much the same weight.

#6. The MI GEN 2 FF rail is the same diameter as the KAC M4 RAS. I was used to the KAC M4 RAS.

I like the rubber ladder rail covers and with the ultra-slim DD rails just feel to slim to me with rubber ladder rail covers.

The MI Gen 2 FF with rubber ladder rail covers is just right IMHO.

#7. The MI GEN 2 FF rail is affordable. The 7" is selling afor about $130.00 at CTD. That said, cost really wasn't an issue. I would have been willing to spend whatever I had to for the rail I wanted.

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=13277&d=1345317410

Singlestack Wonder

08-18-12, 15:15

number1olddog

08-18-12, 16:46

Thanks for the post. I had a MI drop in rail about 3 1/2 years ago and it was ok for the most part but "bulkier" than what I would have liked it to be. I sold that about 2 years ago and since have added a DD OmegaX and couldn't of been happier. I was in my local fun shop last week and they had one of these and it did seem nicer and less bulky than my last one. I just finished my second build and a rail is on my to do list. I put more money into it than I thought I was going to do since I went with a 6920 barrel which I had not planned on doing so money is a little scarce for my toys right now. I may pick this rail up and see how I like it. Thanks again for the post.

JoeSixPack

08-18-12, 16:57

Many reasons why serious users of M4's don't utilize mi rails.

Do some searching and learning.

The DD Omega-X mount system is an ingeniously engineered design. Simple, yet extremely strong.

Because it takes a bit of manual dexterity to tighten screws doesn't relegate it to the bottom tier with manufacturers such as utg or mi.

I don't think I would rank Midwest Industries with UTG. UTG stuff is imported.

Midwest Industries rails are made in the USA and have a lifetime warranty.

Would I put a MI bolt in my rifle? Probably not. But we are talking rails here. It's not a space shuttle.

I did do some research. The MI GEN 2 rails have close to 5-out-of-5 star ratings at most the the big distributors.

Let's talk about the "top tier"

Bought an FN SLP 12ga. last year. Front sight soldered on canted.

Bought a Kahr PM9 last year. Traded it two weeks later. Junk. Was failing to fire just about every mag, "premature slide lock", etc.

Bought 2 Ruger LCR's a few months ago. Revolvers always work. Wrong. Going to have to send one back to Ruger. Cylinder advances 2-3 chambers sometimes.

Bought a FN A3G bolt action this year. Scope rail not level. Holes in Reciever drilled wrong. So far off that if it was level left to right at the front of the rail the bubble would be off the scale left to right at the back. This is a $3000.00 rifle.

Top tier doesn't mean much anymore.

northern1

08-18-12, 17:04

In the AR world it does.

3 AE

08-18-12, 17:28

JBecker 72

08-18-12, 17:47

The width of the MI rails is a deal breaker for me. If they could get the rail thinner, they would have a hit IMO.

JoeSixPack

08-18-12, 17:52

Glad you found a rail that you like. I was starting to wonder when the following rails/handguards failed to meet your requirements this past year.

1. Colt Factory M4
2. Magpul MOE Carbine
3. Troy 7" BattleRail
4. DD Omega 7
5. Centurion C4 Carbine
6. Centurion C4 Carbine Cutout
7. KAS RAS M4
8. KAS URX II

That must have been one heck of a journey of research, purchase, installation, testing, evaluation, and finally rejection. Then having to do it all over again for each new rail candidate. What a test of perseverance and determination! Hope the MI Gen 2 FF exceeds your expectations and makes the grade. Will you being outfitting the other three 6920s if the MI Gen 2 passes the test? Rock on!

The MI GEN 2 FF has passed the test. Just finished installing the
2nd pair. Just wish I had started with the MI GEN 2 FF 1st instead of buying and then EBAYing a dozen rails 1st.

I had just about given up on finding anything I liked better than the KAC RAS M4. The KAC RAS M4 was heavy, it's not FF, but it only has one screw and it's a captive screw and it's a flat head. It's pretty much bulletproof.

The only reason I was using the KAC RAS M4 instead of the factory M4 handguard to start with was because it gave me somewhere to mount a QD socket.

I never actually tried the KAC URX II. Couldn't find one in stock.

JoeSixPack

08-18-12, 18:07

The width of the MI rails is a deal breaker for me. If they could get the rail thinner, they would have a hit IMO.

I compared the MI Gen 2 FF to my KAC RAS M4 and they are both exactly the same width.

Never heard that much gripping about the width of the KAC RAS M4 from the million or so troops that carried them. That said, the KAC RAS M4 is a little chunky to me with the Knight's panels, but then I've got medium sized hands. But with the Santoprene ladder rails which is what I use, it's about right for me.

aklaunch

08-18-12, 21:03

SomeOtherGuy

08-18-12, 21:49

Many reasons why serious users of M4's don't utilize mi rails.

Do some searching and learning.

The DD Omega-X mount system is an ingeniously engineered design. Simple, yet extremely strong.

Because it takes a bit of manual dexterity to tighten screws doesn't relegate it to the bottom tier with manufacturers such as utg or mi.

I think MI quality, particularly the quality of their design (vs. manufacturing), has improved with their gen2 products, and is now excellent based on the two I've tried (SS gen2 and drop-in quadrail gen2). For comparison I've been using Daniel Defense's Omega-X rail for almost two years and Troy's TRX Extreme and drop-in quadrail for almost as long. I would put the gen2 MI stuff right up against Troy. While the DD Omega-X has a prettier finish and appearance of precision than either one, so far I can't find any difference in quality that affects me. And DD's use of set screws to fix the rail around a really tiny barrel nut doesn't give me the warm fuzzies, even if it does seem to work fine.

JoeSixPack

08-19-12, 16:49

Messing around today I think I've found a rail cover combo I like even more than the Ergo ladder rails on the 7" MI GEN2 FF rail:

Knight's 11 rub panel on the bottom and Larue Index Clips on the sides.

The Larue Index Clips barely add any width at all. The Knight's 11 rib panel is thicker than a Larue Index clip so putting the Knights panel on the bottom makes the rail more oval shaped.

The setup looks good, gives better protection from hot metal than the Ergo ladder rails, and doesn't feel chunky.

justin_247

08-19-12, 20:29

#6. The MI GEN 2 FF rail is the same diameter as the KAC M4 RAS. I was used to the KAC M4 RAS.

The width of the MI rails is a deal breaker for me. If they could get the rail thinner, they would have a hit IMO.

I compared the MI Gen 2 FF to my KAC RAS M4 and they are both exactly the same width.

JoeSixPack... you may want to measure the dimensions on those MI rails. The KAC RAS is 2.3" tall x 2.2" wide. I've read that the Gen 2 MI rails are 2.43" tall x 2.3" wide. The fact that the MI rails are taller definitely changes how it feels for some people, especially depending on how they grip the rail.

EDIT: The MI website states that the rail is dimensionally different than the KAC RAS. My numbers were correct:
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=422

Messing around today I think I've found a rail cover combo I like even more than the Ergo ladder rails on the 7" MI GEN2 FF rail:

Knight's 11 rub panel on the bottom and Larue Index Clips on the sides.

The Larue Index Clips barely add any width at all. The Knight's 11 rib panel is thicker than a Larue Index clip so putting the Knights panel on the bottom makes the rail more oval shaped.

If you had used Index clips on the bottom of the Omega rail and KAC rail panels on the side, you would have achieved almost exactly the same result.

Because it takes a bit of manual dexterity to tighten screws doesn't relegate it to the bottom tier with manufacturers such as utg or mi.

I wouldn't put MI in the same category as UTG - I think they're more equivalent to Troy than anybody.

JBecker 72

08-19-12, 20:40

I have a KAC RAS M5 on one of my rifles and it is noticeably thinner and shorter in height than the MI rail I had.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

justin_247

08-19-12, 21:15

I made a picture based upon the dimensions of the rail systems being discussed here. Needless to say, his rail is now round than it is oval, and he could have achieved basically the same result with a DD Omega rail if he swapped the positions of his rail covers.

If he wanted an oval shape, he should have stuck with the Centurion or Omega rails.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7042/rails.jpg

Bizzarolibe

08-20-12, 03:27

Many reasons why serious users of M4's don't utilize mi rails.

I did plenty of searching and couldn't really find anything that would lead me to suspect the quality of the specific rail in question of being less than suitable for "serious users" (how pretentious). I'm sure I must be missing something; please enlighten me.

BTW, the only rail systems I own are the Centurion Arms C4 and Rainier Arms Evolution rail systems. For that matter, I do not own anything from MI. I'm just curious as to why you are so critical of it.

maddy345

08-21-12, 11:35

I bought the MI FF FSP rail and could not be happier. It replaced a DD EZ-Car rail and frankly I don't "FEEL" any difference in height or width.

MI has always had excellent customer service and has replaced two of their products for me no questions asked. They even paid for shipping both ways.

I wouldn't hesitate to spend more of my hard earned cash with them.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000542.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000554.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000547.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000548.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000549.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000550.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000552.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/Krankypants/P1000553.jpg

sinlessorrow

08-21-12, 12:16

I just installed the MI GEN 2 on one of my rifles. I really like everything about it.

A guy just has to trade durability for ultra light weight.

That is easy for me though. I am a normal person who goes to the gun club with my buddies. Not a in a special forces unit in Afghanistan.

Why do you have to sacrifice durability to save weight? DD makes very light rails that you can blow up, run over, and throw out of a helicopter at 60ft.

markm

08-21-12, 12:41

The width of the MI rails is a deal breaker for me. If they could get the rail thinner, they would have a hit IMO.

And if they could get their rails in spec. I have an MI. I just mount a sling loop and light mount on it, so the out of spec rails don't kill me.

But if I take a buddy's mount off of an in spec rail and put it on my MI, it's way loose.

I would think that if you were in the business of making rails... you know how to make them the right size. :blink:

markm

08-21-12, 12:46

I'm just curious as to why you are so critical of it.

I'm not Singlestack... but yeah... MI has had a rash of problematic rails that had to go back.

Note Maddy's reply above. He's had to send two things back to those monkies.

My MI rail isn't the end of the world... but it's the worst piece of gear I have on any of my guns. Just not quite bad enough for the wrench time and money to replace it with something good right now.

JoeSixPack

08-21-12, 19:44

Of all the other rails I tried the 7" Centurion came the closest to the MI in terms of what I was looking for.

My main issue with the Centurion was the small hex screws on the front of the rail. By small, I mean very small diameter. Not much bigger than this 'O'.

I just couldn't help but worrying the front hex screws would snap if the front of the rail was hit hard.

I also didn't like the fact that the front screws were a different size than the screws used to attach rail to the barrel nut.

I tried the C4 cutout too. It was different screws holding the front of the rail togather. Rounded top hex screws that don't screw down flush which caused a bump if you try and run ladder rail covers. Again the front screw was a different size that the rear screws and the front screws were too small IMHO. I would worry about the front screws snapping if the front of the rail was hit hard.

The MI rail may not be finished as nicely as the centurion but the MI uses big hex screws at both the barrel nut and the front of the rail and the screws are all the same size.

That said, nothing is perfect. If it was up to me, the 7" MI rail could lose the front qd sockets. Would give more uninterrupted area for index clips.

The MI is also pretty chunky (wide). If it was about 1/4" thinner on each side it would work better with thicker panels like the kac panels.

I had eyeballed the kac m4 ras next to the MI and they looked the same width to me but I went back and checked with a dail caliper today and the mi is a little thicker than the kac.

My requirements were pretty simple. 7" free float rail with qd sockets at the rear. I simply refuse to add an oz. to my rifle adding a rail mount qd socket because the rail manufacturer won't put a qd socket in the rail.

Of the rails that met this criteria, I narrowed it down based on size of hex screws (bigger equal better) and number of different size screws (fewer sizes equal better).

Trust me, I would rather have a DD rail than the MI if only DD would put a qd socket in their rails that have the 6 big hex screws that attach to their barrel nut. But until they do, the MI is the closest rail I have found to what I am looking for.

JBecker 72

08-21-12, 19:54

I think you are putting frivolous requirements in front of actual proven features. But that's just my .02