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View Full Version : What is the real deal on the ARMS 59M



ArchAngel
08-31-06, 14:08
I know reading very credible reports from Industry Professionals and those that have used them that ARMS optic mounts can be "soft" and have no doubt trusting that.

I haven't read/heard a lot about the S.I.R. systems though.

Are the ARMS S.I.R. mounts solid and dependable?

Specifically looking on information on the 59M.

I'm not sure of what individual's reputations are that are associated with ARMS as a company...but more concerned about product reliability.

I'm looking for information for planning a build. Thanks in advance.

SuicideHz
08-31-06, 14:50
I think what you've been hearing is talk about mounts being loose after levers are tightened or levers not even being able to be tightened. There's also been talk about levers breaking. I don't think any of it relates to the SIR systems. If you've heard anything bad about ARMS products, it's more than likely been the mounts. And if you've heard anything bad about the SIR systems, it's been the weight.

C4IGrant
08-31-06, 21:40
:-)



C4

VA_Dinger
09-01-06, 00:27
This one is a no brainier.

Since the SIR #59M is a rifle length FF rail let’s take a quick look at a few of its competitors.

Base line:

A.R.M.S. #59M S.I.R. System Rifle Length Military Version. I found them priced anywhere $421.00 - $459.95 with nothing more than a Yahoo search.

Competitors:

(1.) Daniel Defense 12.0 FF Rifle length rail system ($328)

(2.) Midwest Industries (MI) MCTAR-22 (2 Piece Free Float Full Length Forearm) - ($275.95)

(3.) LaRue 12.0 Carbine Free Float Rail System ($299.00)

(4.) LaRue 13.2 Free Float Rail System ($329.00)

It would be hard if not impossible for even the most hard-core Internet forum A.R.M.S. fanatic to argue the #59M is “Better” or even the equal to any of the competitors listed above. Hell, most of us would argue it’s actually a serious step down in quality. With this in mind why would anybody want to pay $143-$184 more for the SIR?


My opinion on ARMS mounts is very simple:

Since LaRue hit the market I would not touch an ARMS mount with a ten-foot cattle prod if given the choice. Why would I pay MORE for an inferior product?

nickdrak
09-01-06, 03:23
This one is a no brainier....

(SNIP)



BINGO!!!

GastonG-NoVa
09-01-06, 07:46
I have two of the ARMS rails, and I like them alot. I think they are reock solid, but they are on the heavy side. I would search around and see if you can get one used, like I did on my two. They are on the pricey side if you get them brand new.

It may depend on your purpose for the rails as well.

Good luck
G

baffle Stack
09-01-06, 10:02
Tango Down's vert grip doesn't fit SIRs without a special (read in spec) rail at 6 0'clock.

Pat_Rogers
09-01-06, 10:10
Generally speaking, the arms rail offers no advantages but is less capable then many/ most of the other rails out there.
My preference is for Larue, for the quality of the product as well as for my respect of the man and his company.
Of those available, arms would be at the bottom of the list.

Voodoochild
09-01-06, 13:09
I owned an S.I.R. once. And then I got rid of it enough said.

Nitrox
09-01-06, 15:21
Generally speaking, the arms rail offers no advantages but is less capable then many/ most of the other rails out there.
My preference is for Larue, for the quality of the product as well as for my respect of the man and his company.
Of those available, arms would be at the bottom of the list.

ARMS, like VLTOR, mounts to the top rail and alleviates the stress put on the front of the receiver via the barrel nut. While the ARMS rails may not be in vogue they certainly DO have advantages and features that are not available on hand guards such as DD and LaRue.

ArchAngel
09-01-06, 16:11
That's one of the things that I was wondering about - if the mounting to the flat-top provided any andvantages in strength or stability.

I do like the LaRue and some of the other mounts that were listed but I was looking for information on the SIR.

The idea is for a intermediate to long range precision build - but different from a SPR style build. I'm not really concerned about the weight as much as the difference in the rail mounts will make, it's not planned as a bench rifle and certainly not CQB style.

It will be a bi-pod/off the pack based shooting rifle.

Thanks for all the candid info on this system!

I'm certainly not advocating one rail system over the other and I'm interested in hearing opinions/use based opinions/experiences and comparisons.

Thanks to all in advance.

Pat_Rogers
09-01-06, 16:30
Thanks for your reply. I am not an engineer and stay at the Hampton Inn, so i am behind the power curve on many things. However, any quantifiable advantages shown by the products made by that company escapes me.
I can say that in the past 10 years, i have seen a total of eight (8) arms rails at class- mil, gov or open enrollment.
I'm sure that means something, but unsure what.

Nitrox
09-01-06, 16:56
Over the last 10 years I have only seen one Beta Max tape player but that doesn't mean they are a bad product, it only means they aren't popular.

I'm not giving the nod to ARMS in any way, only saying that they aren't bad just unpopular. They bridge the flat top upper receiver and take almost all the pressure exerted on a forward grip, bipod, or sling off the barrel nut. They also have a removable bottom section and can be installed without removing the barrel nut.

What do I prefer? DD, PRI, and VLTOR

Boom
09-01-06, 21:47
The old SIR platform is a good design. The only real downfall I see is the design complicates installing irons and optics due to the design of the attachment on the top 1913 receiver rail. My only other complaint would be the lower handguard is plastic and does not hold up to repeated on the ground bipod use. Its real failing comes from jumping on the ground and slamming the bipod around. I've seen two broken lower handsguards from this type of use and one from falling off a bench and slamming into a table which cracked the lower handguard.

The design itself is solid and will hold up to normal non heavy use. It does have a weight issue over other better lighter designs.

Just my 2 cents YMMV.

Pat_Rogers
09-02-06, 06:38
Aside fro weight, bulk, sight issues, inability to accept in spec parts and so forth, when i first saw one it reminded me of the Williamsburg Bridge.
If you are not from NY, you might not understand...

KevinB
09-04-06, 20:56
- I have had several SIR systems (and none now...)

We had two early ones (and I had broken a protoptype at SHOT SHOW) -- the metal screw inserts fell out when the upper was out in the cold (Jan/Feb Canada...) admitted ARMS replaced the two (even though they where used on Army guns for a months in the field...) and admitted that they had screwed up the polymer lowers and the bonding the metal pieces.

Those where what ended up being nomenclatired the #45C.
I have since played with the #58M and #59 and one that I am unsure if it has a name.

Needless to say since I dont own any ARMS products - I have a reason
1) Dick Swan is NOT someone who I respects for his personal views (cough he's a Nazi cough)
2) ARMS has missed the boat on updating and evolving their product line.

Larue has far surpassed them on mounts -- and they never dd measure up to much in rails...

Voodoochild
09-04-06, 21:16
- I have had several SIR systems (and none now...)

We had two early ones (and I had broken a protoptype at SHOT SHOW) -- the metal screw inserts fell out when the upper was out in the cold (Jan/Feb Canada...) admitted ARMS replaced the two (even though they where used on Army guns for a months in the field...) and admitted that they had screwed up the polymer lowers and the bonding the metal pieces.

Those where what ended up being nomenclatired the #45C.
I have since played with the #58M and #59 and one that I am unsure if it has a name.

Needless to say since I dont own any ARMS products - I have a reason
1) Dick Swan is NOT someone who I respects for his personal views (cough he's a Nazi cough)
2) ARMS has missed the boat on updating and evolving their product line.

Larue has far surpassed them on mounts -- and they never dd measure up to much in rails...


Kevin I couldnt agree with you more. I am not a high speed guy like yourself but I owned a SIR once. It was a PITA to try and attach a TG Down VFG wouldnt fit and lack of space to attach item to the side of rails. Overall I give it a check minus.

ArchAngel
09-06-06, 01:23
Thanks for all the information - and the honest, practical experiences.

Since this is planned as a bipod shooter, the weakness in the lower portion of the rail is of concern.

Non-spec issues are also a major concern.

The LaRue's have been another option that I've considered for awhile.

As I'm taking time with this, I'll keep options open and keep looking.

I think, based on reported experiences and some more research, that the SIR will probably be a pass.

SinnFéinM1911
09-06-06, 08:52
-

Needless to say since I dont own any ARMS products - I have a reason
1) Dick Swan is NOT someone who I respects for his personal views (cough he's a Nazi cough)
2) ARMS has missed the boat on updating and evolving their product line.

Larue has far surpassed them on mounts -- and they never dd measure up to much in rails...

LOL.... True-er words have never been spoken