View Full Version : Better trigger for BCM
Microalign
08-21-12, 23:58
I've been shooting a BCM middy for a couple of years now. However, I recently started doing more shooting at the 300m+ range. Generally, I'm doing pretty well at it, but I'd like to install a trigger with a lighter and cleaner break. I'm not looking for a precision rifle trigger, just something that is a little better than a factory BCM trigger group. Any suggestions? Thanks.
I have no experience with their products but, I presume most will recommend a Geissele SSA-E.
uncle money bags
08-22-12, 00:18
I shoot and recommend the Geissele SSA. Since it is a two stage it will feel different at first but i promise you will love it.
And first post is done!
I would try the QMS trigger from ALG. Its a damn good trigger for 45.00.
wetidlerjr
08-22-12, 03:25
The QMS will be "smoother and sharper" but is not advertised as lighter.
I would go with an SSA (smoother AND lighter two stage) but it is quite a bit more at $170-180 while the QMS is around $45.
I have three SSAs and can vouch for them but I have no experience with the QMS. :D
SSA (http://geissele.com/supersemi-automaticssatrigger.aspx)
QMS (http://www.algdefense.com/include/pdf/ALG-QMS-Flyer.pdf)
SW-Shooter
08-22-12, 03:46
I am also an advocate of the ACT trigger as well, I think it is the best mil spec type trigger out there. As for a lighter pull, I don't think it's necessary in a combat rifle. However, if it is for merely for target shooting then you might want to look at a different trigger.
vicious_cb
08-22-12, 04:17
I have no experience with their products but, I presume most will recommend a Geissele SSA-E.
Too light for anything other than a dedicated precision rig. The SSA the best carbine trigger out there.
The Geissele S3G with the 5.5lb pull (call Geissele and they'll supply a stronger blue powder coated trigger spring) is awesome: more weight, short travel and super short reset.
Can't argue against the SSA, either.
wetidlerjr
08-22-12, 04:58
Too light for anything other than a dedicated precision rig. The SSA the best carbine trigger out there.
"SSA...It is recommended for demanding applications such as Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) rifles, Law Enforcement use, and Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and mid-range carbine work."
~ Geissele
:D
A light trigger is not always the best choice. Before changing triggers, clean and lube the stock trigger. This will smooth out the feel and greatly improve it's consistency giving the shooter more precise control of the rifle
"SSA...It is recommended for demanding applications such as Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) rifles, Law Enforcement use, and Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and mid-range carbine work."
~ Geissele
:D
And so it seems. I take classes and play with mine and it seems to do everything I've asked of it.
I'm extremely happy with the SSA-E I installed last month. It's a huge improvement over the standard single stage trigger I had prior. While it was something that I was initially worried about, I don't find the trigger to be too light at all with it's stated 3.5lbs pull. The break is extremely crisp and reset is relatively short and very tactile.
It all depends on what you're willing to spend. If you want to keep costs down, the ALG trigger looks like an excellent choice. If you want to spend some more coin, I would personally recommend the SSA-E.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Dirk Williams
08-22-12, 09:57
I upgraded two of my Vltor triggers to these. There better yet seem to stick?, at the break point. Just seems to hang bit. I've been switching over to the Gisselle E triggers I like them a lot, I really like the straight trigger.
Got two in a couple gen II Noveskes and they are just smooth as butter. Also have some other upgraded triggers in other rifles which I like this just happens to be what I think,I like best for now.
DW
I also recommend the SSA. Its one of the most recent upgrades I made to my Noveske which had a solid stock trigger, but I wish it had been my first.
fallenromeo
08-22-12, 10:18
I personally use the Geissele SSA for my all around rifle. If I was building a strictly precision rifle, I would go SSA-E. I know OP said he wants a lighter more precision trigger, but did not specify if this is going to be mainly a precision rifle of if he is just trying to stretch his all purpose rifle with slightly better results.
No one ever puts a Geiselle SSA in and regrets it.
I really like my Geiselle SSA-E.
I just installed an ALG "ACT" trigger last night into one of my fighting gun lowers. It is better than mil-spec but still cant compare to the SSA or SSA-E for better precision use.
I really like my Geiselle SSA-E.
I just installed an ALG "ACT" trigger last night into one of my fighting gun lowers. It is better than mil-spec but still cant compare to the SSA or SSA-E for better precision use.
My ACT is actually worse than most of my USGIs. It has so much creep it looks like a two stage if you watch your finger when dry firing it.
My ACT is actually worse than most of my USGIs. It has so much creep it looks like a two stage if you watch your finger when dry firing it.
Mine is definitely better than my USGI's. But I am still going to use a SSA in my next build.
No one ever puts a Geiselle SSA in and regrets it.
True story.
If it's a precision-only rig: SSA-E/SD-E
If not, I have defaulted to: SSA/SD-C
I recently got a SD-C, only a couple hundred rounds through it but it is a great upgrade.
No one ever puts a Geiselle SSA in and regrets it.
That's the deal right there.. Geiselle for the win! The BCM trigger was the worst of all my AR's. I put a SSA-E in my Colt MT6700 so I used the Colt take-off trigger in my BCM middy and sold the BCM trigger for $25. The Colt trigger was so much better than the BCM I was astonished and the Geiselle is that much better than the Colt.. JMO.. Ron
My ACT is actually worse than most of my USGIs. It has so much creep it looks like a two stage if you watch your finger when dry firing it.
Every GI trigger I've tried has creep and you're right about being the same travel as a two stage
vicious_cb
08-22-12, 16:15
"SSA...It is recommended for demanding applications such as Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) rifles, Law Enforcement use, and Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and mid-range carbine work."
~ Geissele
:D
The post you quoted above was in reference to the the SSA-E which even Bill himself regards as too light for carbine use.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/geiss04op.png
Note that the SSA-E is only regarded for use in a precision capability. While the SSA can be used for many applications.
Microalign
08-22-12, 17:12
I would try the QMS trigger from ALG. Its a damn good trigger for 45.00.
All you guys give great advice. I think I might try the QMS for starters. After all, I'm only out $45 if I don't like it. Thanks!
GSSA - it's noticeably lighter than stock, much cleaner break, but still a very good trigger for more typical carbine use. Also, they're cheaper than the SSA-E's. I love my one -E, but it's going to live on a precision rifle.
Stopsign32v
08-22-12, 19:33
True story.
If it's a precision-only rig: SSA-E/SD-E
If not, I have defaulted to: SSA/SD-C
I recently got a SD-C, only a couple hundred rounds through it but it is a great upgrade.
How do you like the SD-C? I'm thinking about going with that over a SSA but I'm just not sure what would be the best choice for a HD/SD rifle.
Wilson Combat TTU-3G Single Stage
Amazing trigger OUT OF THE BOX. Drop in, put pins in place, put rifle back together and shoot
How do you like the SD-C? I'm thinking about going with that over a SSA but I'm just not sure what would be the best choice for a HD/SD rifle.
I really like it - crisp break, pretty short reset, and the flat bow gives me a better feel on the trigger. It's definitely the lightest trigger I'd want on a HD/fighting gun.
That said, no wonder-trigger will improve a shooter. A good shooter can become better with proper fundamentals and a trigger upgrade, but a bad shooter will get no better just because they drop one of these in.
Every GI trigger I've tried has creep and you're right about being the same travel as a two stage
I changed out the stupid oversized pins. I'm going to run it that way for a bit and see if it improves. It's not terrible... but if you shot the gun, you wouldn't think it had anything other than an average GI trigger.
I have an ssa and it is outstanding.
I love my ALG ACT trigger.
Stopsign32v
08-22-12, 23:12
My PSA trigger in their LPK is just as good as an ACT. Glad I didn't waste money on one.
My PSA trigger in their LPK is just as good as an ACT. Glad I didn't waste money on one.
I'm glad you had good luck.
I changed out the stupid oversized pins. I'm going to run it that way for a bit and see if it improves. It's not terrible... but if you shot the gun, you wouldn't think it had anything other than an average GI trigger.
Too be fair, your avg. GI trigger pull is most likely based on tons of different GI triggers. So over the average of them all, I'm sure a 6.5lb G.I. design trigger...i.e. the ACT, doesn't really stand out.
Now imagine if you were issued your first AR by the dept. that happened to have a typical 8-10lb gritty as hell stock Colt g.i. trigger, and then you dropped in an ACT trigger. My guess is that your opinion of the ACT trigger would be higher.
My first two ARs were NIB Colt 6520's, and no doubt about it the triggers on them both almost turned me entirely off to the AR FOW. They were both over 9lbs, incredibly gritty, and entirely unpredictable.
I'm finding that people's opinion of the ALG triggers is based far more on their own perspectives, rather than the actual triggers.
If you want a trigger to "wow" the shit out of you, I would suggest SD-C/E/3G....not any of the G.I. single stage varieties including the ALG triggers;)
wetidlerjr
08-23-12, 02:54
"SSA...It is recommended for demanding applications such as Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) rifles, Law Enforcement use, and Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and mid-range carbine work."
~ Geissele
:D
The post you quoted above was in reference to the the SSA-E which even Bill himself regards as too light for carbine use....
My quote comes directly from the Geissele website page for the SSA NOT the SSA-E.
It is not a post quote.
Go to: SSA (http://geissele.com/supersemi-automaticssatrigger.aspx)
I changed out the stupid oversized pins. I'm going to run it that way for a bit and see if it improves. It's not terrible... but if you shot the gun, you wouldn't think it had anything other than an average GI trigger.
The ACT trigger is made from standard GI trigger parts, so it's feel will be very similar. The advantage of the ACT trigger is better consistency from unit to unit and deeper heat treating. If the ACT uses the o/s pins, don't replace them with a smaller diameter pins. Using smaller pins will allow some slop which introduces inconsistencies in the pull.
The standard trigger is designed with a lot of creep to prevent the rifle from discharging due to rough handling and from being banged about. It's like having a two stage trigger where the first stage takes the same amount of pull as the second stage. The Geisselle 3 gun trigger is the same way but at a lower weight
The ACT trigger is made from standard GI trigger parts, so it's feel will be very similar. The advantage of the ACT trigger is better consistency from unit to unit and deeper heat treating. If the ACT uses the o/s pins, don't replace them with a smaller diameter pins. Using smaller pins will allow some slop which introduces inconsistencies in the pull.
I'm not too warm on the notion of poking those pins in my receiver. I'll take the chicken slop if there is any.
If I was too assed up about trigger pull, I'd just get an SSA. ;)
SSA REIGNS SUPREME. I bought a 3G , it's cool but I would prefer an SSA. I think the SSA-E is a little light for battle guns, I thought about one for my 18 WOA PRECISION gun. But just stayed SSA. 2lbs on the 2nd stage is plenty light for me.
We originally put this ACT in Pappabears AR. He tried it and ordered another SSA the next day! :blink:
I'm not too warm on the notion of poking those pins in my receiver. I'll take the chicken slop if there is any.
If I was too assed up about trigger pull, I'd just get an SSA. ;)
The pins are still a slip fit through the lower but with less movement than the standard pins and the result is less wear on the pin holes
To quote Bush 1... "not gonna do it..... wouldn't be prudent at this juncture!" :p
We originally put this ACT in Pappabears AR. He tried it and ordered another SSA the next day! :blink:
Tough crowd down in AZ! I don't think the ACT was made with you extreme distance shooters in mind :moil:
Maybe so :D
But I also think when you start comparing stock triggers and low cost replacement triggers, the lines can blur quickly. If you get a good stock trigger and not so good after market job, lines be blurred.
Tough crowd down in AZ! I don't think the ACT was made with you extreme distance shooters in mind :moil:
Nah! I'm running that trigger in my iron sight camo gun. It's a serviceable trigger. Pappabear is a "Spa" shooter.... Lattes and fresh fruit.... He's lost his inner redneck. I have to ugly us up with nasty beard just so people still think were Seal Team 6,7, and 8.
This topic is so vague it bothers me. If you want a USGI trigger with a good pull weight every time go with ALG's QMS or ACT. If you want to play the trigger lottery with USGI then buy one of the other brands. If you want a competition trigger for the AR then don't ask me, I don't use mine for that purpose. Mine is for HD, and SHTF scenarios.
If you want a competition trigger for the AR then don't ask me, I don't use mine for that purpose. Mine is for HD, and SHTF scenarios.
The competition gays can go over to Brian Enos forum if they want that info. They can also find out where to get the tight silk team shirts and silk panties. :p
Maybe so :D
But I also think when you start comparing stock triggers and low cost replacement triggers, the lines can blur quickly. If you get a good stock trigger and not so good after market job, lines be blurred.
Definitely agree
Nah! I'm running that trigger in my iron sight camo gun. It's a serviceable trigger. Pappabear is a "Spa" shooter.... Lattes and fresh fruit.... He's lost his inner redneck. I have to ugly us up with nasty beard just so people still think were Seal Team 6,7, and 8.
:laugh: I'm sure UTG has a quadrail cup-holder mount
This topic is so vague it bothers me. If you want a USGI trigger with a good pull weight every time go with ALG's QMS or ACT. If you want to play the trigger lottery with USGI then buy one of the other brands. If you want a competition trigger for the AR then don't ask me, I don't use mine for that purpose. Mine is for HD, and SHTF scenarios.
Don't cry
I've been shooting a BCM middy for a couple of years now. However, I recently started doing more shooting at the 300m+ range. Generally, I'm doing pretty well at it, but I'd like to install a trigger with a lighter and cleaner break. I'm not looking for a precision rifle trigger, just something that is a little better than a factory BCM trigger group. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Needs, usage, etc. were all clearly stated in his OP. What is this 'vagueness' you speak of?
:laugh: I'm sure UTG has a quadrail cup-holder mount
We're like TEAM UTG when we roll out on a mission! :cool:
We're like TEAM UTG when we roll out on a mission! :cool:
Yeehaw! Operatin' and stuff....:sarcastic:
I bought an SSA a year ago after having stock GI type triggers in my ARS . The SSA is all around nice and I am more than happy with the purchase.
ThirdWatcher
08-24-12, 06:34
"SSA...It is recommended for demanding applications such as Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) rifles, Law Enforcement use, and Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and mid-range carbine work."
~ Geissele
:D
Yeah, that's what I'm running on (both) my service rifles.
Nah! I'm running that trigger in my iron sight camo gun. It's a serviceable trigger. Pappabear is a "Spa" shooter.... Lattes and fresh fruit.... He's lost his inner redneck. I have to ugly us up with nasty beard just so people still think were SEAL Team 6,7, and 8.
Back up Jack, He's on a roll. No boy from Kintuck can lose his inner redneck. :D Wait a second, I thought we were 9, 10 and 11 this
week :p
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22824894.jpg
BangBang77
08-24-12, 12:18
OP
Sure you can upgrade to any of the brands aforementioned in this thread, but is something actually wrong with the stock trigger that came with your BCM?
While most of my rifles are Ponies, my wife does have a BCM and she get hits on steel at 200 all day every day with the stock trigger.
All the rifles on my place have the stock triggers. If I was shooting long range precision matches I might consider a Gieselle or something along those lines, but me thinks the standard USGI config is good to go.
Just my two cents.
OP
Sure you can upgrade to any of the brands aforementioned in this thread, but is something actually wrong with the stock trigger that came with your BCM?
While most of my rifles are Ponies, my wife does have a BCM and she get hits on steel at 200 all day every day with the stock trigger.
All the rifles on my place have the stock triggers. If I was shooting long range precision matches I might consider a Gieselle or something along those lines, but me thinks the standard USGI config is good to go.
Just my two cents.
Damn! Again we totally agree.
I've kinda given up on making this point... because people don't want to hear it.
I really like my Geisselle SSA-E & SSA triggers (recently replaced the stock GI trigger on my carbine with an SSA because I found one on sale) and I really like them both. However, there was nothing wrong with the stock GI trigger on my carbine after I lubed it with grease.
The SSA-E makes it easier to hit small targets at longer ranges (200 yards and more) but minute of silhouette inside 100 yards was just as easy with the GI trigger
Whitebrad25
08-27-12, 14:41
Geissele.
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