View Full Version : ergo rifle build experiment
this project is sort of an experiment for me (a lefty) to see how i like a lot of specialized ergonomic features. Specifically, a USO SN3 TPAL 5-25x with LEFT wind and RIGHT parallax, a left-bolt right-port action, and a lefty folding XLR chassis. At the same time, I'm going from 6.5 to 6mm caliber and switching from suppressor to brake. I plan to shoot at least 6 months of matches with it.
update: my USO won't be ready for a long time so I bought a S&B 5-25x with MSR reticle instead. Got the folder hardware installed.
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-b.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-c.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-d.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-e.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-f.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/6slr-g.jpg
Specs:
Defiance Action
left bolt, right port, medium 1.350 OD 700ID, stainless
guardian (R&D) mag well
plunger ejector, m16 style extractor
.312 recoil lug and pins*
20 MOA pic rail (2 pins, 4 screws)**
standard tenon***
XLR evolution chassis
left-hand
rem700 inlet
AICS mags
upgraded rear stock (forget what they call it)
folder
slot-mounted flush cup
x-treme mod22 2-stage trigger set at 1.5 lbs total weight****
APA "little bastard" brake
3x Bartlein 6mm barrel, 7.7 twist 26" (I had 3 identical ones made)
chambered in 6 SLR
overall length, folded, is 37". for comparison, the eberlestock scabbards are just shy of 33".
*note this turned out a little too thick and we had to use a thinner recoil lug or mill out XLR chassis. edit: see interesting discussion here (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3527080&#Post3527080)
**the pic rail that ships with the defiance has a goose neck that extends over the recoil lug and barrel. You need to mill off an inch of it in order to not interfere with the XLR's 6-screw cap that captures the handguard.
*** i think most people get the extended tenon which is great for more thread contact between barrel and action, but it won't fit in the XLR chassis, so you have to go with the standard one
**** the slot cut in the defiance action above the trigger is too short for this trigger and needs the standard cut for accessing the adjustment for 2nd stage trigger weight. In other words, you can't adjust the trigger pull weight with the trigger innstalled a defiance action. It must be removed to adjust. The slot is just a little short. it covers half of the hole needed to insert a 2mm allen wrench.
So I would have been screwed if I had tried to just put the barreled action into the chassis myself. It wasn't 'drop in'. I will briefly note a few of the other more irritating parts of the build:
trying to time a brake on 3 different barrels at once is a PITA. prob won't do that again.
the folder hardware (not made by XLR) is pretty annoying for several reasons. first, the install instructions suck. and by that, i mean, there aren't any. second, there are TWO set screws to lock in the threads that most people don't notice until they have damaged the threads. I was warned about the first, but not the second :mad:. third, you can slide the hinge up and down. If you slide it up, it interferes with the bolt. if you slide it down, it interferes with your trigger hand. the hinge mechanism is much more difficult to operate than the manners or AICS folders, which are push-button. this hardware requires you to push the whole stock up or down against spring pressure then tilt it out. edit: i believe XLR will have their own folder design out sometime soon
that said, i think once it's finished, i'll really like the chassis. i'm optimistic, but I really like the grip, weight, feel, etc. it feels like an AR15, and doubly-so with a left-bolt right port action. More specifically, it has the feel of the small diameter AR15 handguards that I like (e.g. the old jp vtac rail)
Amazing how much of a different language these bolts are from gas guns.
Great to hear though you confirm the primary reason that I think I might want to try this chassis in the future....brings a lot of AR into a bolt action rifle. The folding stock I have read quite a bit on in regards to others sharing your same slightly negative opinion...mainly on the Hide. I also remember folks being disappointed when they tried to use AR stocks on it, especially the UBR IIrc...which did suck to hear being a UBR fan. While I always like the thought of folding stocks, I'm perhaps a little to OCD for putting them on a hard use, or even field type rifle. Moreover, I'm not sure I would ever utilize the added ability to fold the stock. Others I'm sure have valid reasons, just not me that I can think of.
You and Orkan are downright methodical, and very meticulous with your approaches towards your bolts....this is a great thing, but it also intimidates newbs like myself from venturing in the bolt waters more often. There will hopefully be a time when bolts will be the only real solution for what I'm wanting to do...play at a mile frequently. You and Orkan will be getting the nod:)
I won't ramble in this thread like I did in your LR Night time NVD thread...but I'll stay tuned, and thanks for taking the time to share:)
Why not go left wind and left tpal on the USO? Then you'll have easy access to all controls with firing hand, keeping non firing hand on the rear bag.
Trident, you shouldn't be intimidated. I promise you that taliv and I both started in the same place at some point in our lives: We didn't know a damn thing. Being new is funner than where we are now. When I was new, I improved by leaps and bounds... and it was very rewarding. The more you know and the better you are, the harder you have to work for the tiniest bit of improvement. Sometimes you don't even have the experience or knowledge to identify when you are improving. You look back on it years later and only then do you realize what you were doing and why it was working. So enjoy being new, and don't be afraid to jump in with both feet. :)
that's the truth.
orkan, i always hold wind, and got the tiny wind knob with the cap. once zeroed, that cap won't come off. also, i put the illum on the left too, so there's nothing keeping my fat knuckles from spinning that parallax. oh, and i keep my firing hand on the grip. using my support hand to move the knobs. keep in mind most of the shooting at these matches is off barricades and other non-prone positions, so at least half the time, there won't be a rear bag and i won't be supporting the butt with my non-firing hand
Nice Tom sounds like a great project, love me some bolt porn
pics added
i'm still real new to the XLR, but liking it a lot so far. definitely a different feel.
Holy sh*t that rifle looks WICKED.....awesome job, and thanks for the pics.
Orkan...thanks for the encouragement, and Im gonna join up on your forum in order to start learning more from you.
Don't ban me man, I swear I won't troll:p
fallenromeo
08-30-12, 10:05
Dang that is nice. I don't know much about Bolt guns, but I can tell that is some serious coin you dropped on that. Beautiful rifle taliv. Thanks for posting.
Out of curiosity, typically what range would you use this caliber at in a match?
i'd guess most targets in most practical/field/sniper matches are between 300-800 yards, with many having a 5'-20' short range target just to see if you know your hold overs up close, and a bunch of 100 yard paper, and if they have the land for it, a few targets out as far as 1400 yards. i expect this caliber/rifle will give up a good bit of advantage past 800, but make up for it in shooting fast positional stuff at the short and mid-ranges, compared to my 29" bbl 260AI (see the pics in the NV thread)
i'm still working up a load, but I'm hoping to hit 3050 fps with the 115g DTACs and i think that will give me about 7 mils to 1000 yards
couple of weekends under my belt (and by 'couple' i mean 2). i had forgotten what a PITA sorting out a new gun can be. new action, new bbl, new scope, new rings, new caliber, new dies, etc etc... sooo many things to go wrong and it seems half of them have. i think i've been to "the range" prob 15 times in the past week shooting 5-10 rounds per trip. ugh. very very frustrating.
finally started coming together yesterday and today though, after i'd had enough saturday and swapped barrels and took a dremel to the bedding. also destroyed 100 pc of brass.
finally got a decent zero. good news is... it's shooting flat and accurate and recoil is everything i'd hoped. can easily see my own trace at 500 yards. i shot a 5 round group on paper without ever taking my eyes off the target and without the crosshair moving more than 1 mil from the dot through recoil or while running the bolt. i'm excited.
i'm warming up the to XLR as well. it was really irritating at first, because i thought i had it adjusted but it didn't really fit me. after i figured out what i'd done and got it properly adjusted, i am pretty happy with it. it's actually a good thing i put the folder hardware in there, which extends the tube about 2 inches. Without it, I would have been right at the end of the adjustment.
also shot it off shooting sticks and it was super-easy. so much lighter weight than my previous match rifle. I can't wait to weight this setup. definitely several lbs lighter, and better balanced.
of course, i haven't shot a match yet, but currently, the only problem i have with the XLR, is the the bottom of the butt is like a blade. it doesn't float on fluffy rear bags like an macmillan A5 or manners T4A does, but cuts right down (see pic). I may have to switch to a heavy sand bag instead of the super-light poly fill, or figure out how to put a skid plate on the bottom of the butt to make it wider.
i REALLY love the MSR reticle from S&B. huge improvement over the P4F that i've been using. that tiny gap in the lines .5 mils from the center of the crosshair makes a huge difference for me today. i'm using the milling reticle on the low left a lot too. it's SO much easier to use than the stupid .2 hashes on the edges of the reticle.
so far, not terribly happy with the spuhr mounts. i can't see the stupid bubble level without moving my head off scope. i trust they'll keep the scope in place though. it does seem well made.
lot of work to do though...
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/93-kit.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/93-msr.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/93-3rnd.jpg
Taliv -
Glad to see it coming together. This is taking the place of the bighorn 260ai, right? When you say you swapped barrels, what happened to the original? The 6slr should get you more barrel life than a straight 243, right? Any idea how much more?
I followed a similar 6mm route, but decided to go straight 243, Hornady 105 BTHP's, AICS w/viperskins, and 22" suppressed. This'll be my 2013 PRS gun, with my 223 sending 82 bergers at 2900 as my practice rifle. I'm picking it up on Friday, and hope to have the load worked out for the NTRP match. You shooting that one?
Glad to see you have everything working out. Looking forward to shooting with you soon...
JP
hey JP, yes replacing the 260ai bighorn. i had 3 barrels made which were supposed to be identical. one kinda got cocked up a bit, so i figured i'd use it as a practice barrel. i expected it to shoot accurately though. it may or may not have been the problem but i just decided to swap it out anyway.
man, definitely post some pics of your new rifle! I'd love to see it. After shooting years suppressed before deciding to go brake (only for PRS matches) it's interesting you're going the other way! 22" and suppressed! wow
I am shooting OK PRS, GAP Grind, and the finale. due to work, NTRP will be last minute decision for me. I'm on the wait list though, so may not have a choice.
edit: no idea on bbl life. heck, i can't even find load data for the 6 SLR. i had to guess and work up, then back down
Trigger time wahoo!!! Hey, at least you're shooting.
Sorting out all the bullshit on a new rifle is yet another reason why I love DTA's. Nothin to sort out. If shit's broke, it goes to the factory and they fix it or send a new one.
Keep giving updates. :)
hey JP, yes replacing the 260ai bighorn. i had 3 barrels made which were supposed to be identical. one kinda got cocked up a bit, so i figured i'd use it as a practice barrel. i expected it to shoot accurately though. it may or may not have been the problem but i just decided to swap it out anyway.
man, definitely post some pics of your new rifle! I'd love to see it. After shooting years suppressed before deciding to go brake (only for PRS matches) it's interesting you're going the other way! 22" and suppressed! wow
I am shooting OK PRS, GAP Grind, and the finale. due to work, NTRP will be last minute decision for me. I'm on the wait list though, so may not have a choice.
edit: no idea on bbl life. heck, i can't even find load data for the 6 SLR. i had to guess and work up, then back down
I had to give up on the Grind as it's the only weekend that we could have my son's b-day party...good trade off, in my opinion. :) Also can't make the finale due to family commitments. I've got local matches and NTRP left for 2012, and am focusing on 2013...
I've wanted to go 6mm for some time, and finally toasted a 30 cal barrel sending 155's very, very fast. That gave me the opportunity to turn my Surgeon into a 243. 22" seemed optimal if I wanted a can...which I did because I am sick of fighting auditory flinch.
Sounds like I'll be seeing you in 2013. Good luck the rest of the year, bro. Keep us posted on the rifle.
time for an update on this trainwreck.
so i can occasionally but together a half-decent string of dots, but every time i go to the range, my zero is different, and more than half the time, i can't even get it zeroed. at BEST, it's a 2 MOA rifle.
The dots below are typical. I started with the 10 rounds at the bottom. shot all over the place. Then i switched to my suppressed bighorn in 260AI and shot the 15 rounds at the top. Then removed the brake and shot the 10 rounds in the middle. After the sighter, only 3 of the 14 rounds from the bighorn are touching the white. 11 are solidly inside the black 1" dots. But with the 6SLR, only 7 out of 20 shots are even touching the black and 11 of 20 are at least 1" away from the POA.
this is really, really infuriating, after 1200 rounds, trying two different barrels, 3 brands of brass, 3 brands of bullets, 2 lots of powder with weights from 41 - 45 grains, and even switching from XLR chassis to Rock Solid chassis. I've tried with and without the brake.
About the only thing in common now is the defiance action and the reamer used (which was brand new and seemed to work well). I'm at a complete loss as to what to do next. Switching back to my bighorn for now though.
looks good though, and i like the rock solid and xlr chassis ergonomically.
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/260ai6slrdots.jpg
http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/bighornrocksolid.jpg
Damn... that's got to be disappointing.
Have you proven the optic and the mount? I've seen guys go through a few rifles before they figure out their optic shit the bed.
Otherwise maybe a load development issue?
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