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airman

08-25-12, 11:53

I am considering getting my ccw permit and was thinking this would be a great pistol for ccw. Anyone have, or shot the xds and what is your opinion of it.

colt191145lover

08-25-12, 12:26

It has been discussed many times here .You should be able to access the info with the search button:) Hope this helps!

Colt

Nephrology

08-25-12, 15:47

There are better guns. Use the search button.

foxjordan22

08-25-12, 22:06

I have 600 rounds through mine with no problems. Hard to beat 6 rounds of 45 in a pocket gun.

Magic_Salad0892

08-25-12, 22:58

I have 600 rounds through mine with no problems. Hard to beat 6 rounds of 45 in a pocket gun.

7+1 rounds of 9x19mm rounds in a smaller pocket gun.

Walther PPS.

Steve S.

08-25-12, 23:35

7+1 rounds of 9x19mm rounds in a smaller pocket gun.

Walther PPS.

7+1 rounds in an even smaller pocket gun with a better trigger.

M&P Shield.

:-)

DIRTMAN556

08-26-12, 00:57

You'll find that XDs get no love from the majority of the members here. By the same token a lot are service members and need something simole, proven, and reliable.

XDs are great guns and its all up to personal preference. Rent some and shoot some.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 02:18

Have any of you compared a PPS or a Shield to an XDs in person? By some of the misinformed posts here I don't think so. Please have knowledge on a topic before you post. It boils down to a caliber/brand flame war really between these 3. I realize people may not like the XD line and that's cool. Just don't put out bad info. It does no one any good.

The three are almost identical in size. The XDs is actually thinnest AT ITS WIDEST POINT than the others. Mine has been 100% reliable so has my friends PPS and Shield. As I said, its basically preference at this point.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 02:20

I do want to add something. S&W nailed the trigger on the Shield. XDs' trigger is ice, but the Shield's trigger beats it out of the box.

Magic_Salad0892

08-26-12, 09:13

7+1 rounds in an even smaller pocket gun with a better trigger.

M&P Shield.

:-)

I think that the PPS is still thinner than the Shield, but the Shield is shorter height, and length wise. I don't know the exact specs.

The trigger on the PPS is pretty good. I haven't shot the Shield.

The Shield has a manual safety. That automatically disqualifies it as an option, in my opinion.

Have any of you compared a PPS or a Shield to an XDs in person? By some of the misinformed posts here I don't think so. Please have knowledge on a topic before you post. It boils down to a caliber/brand flame war really between these 3. I realize people may not like the XD line and that's cool. Just don't put out bad info. It does no one any good.

The three are almost identical in size. The XDs is actually thinnest AT ITS WIDEST POINT than the others. Mine has been 100% reliable so has my friends PPS and Shield. As I said, its basically preference at this point.

Not if comparing .45 to 9x19mm pocket guns.

The XD has a retarded grip safety, with a magazine release that is prone to sticking, almost no aftermarket support, almost no armorer support, good trigger, decent accuracy, unreliable magazines, is super top heavy, and is uglier than ****.

Magsz

08-26-12, 11:43

At the very least...

You can rack the slide on the XDs when the grip safety is NOT depressed.

That is a welcome change.

WillBrink

08-26-12, 11:50

I am considering getting my ccw permit and was thinking this would be a great pistol for ccw. Anyone have, or shot the xds and what is your opinion of it.

Here.....we.....go.....again....:blink:

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 12:03

I think that the PPS is still thinner than the Shield, but the Shield is shorter height, and length wise. I don't know the exact specs.

The trigger on the PPS is pretty good. I haven't shot the Shield.

The Shield has a manual safety. That automatically disqualifies it as an option, in my opinion.

Not if comparing .45 to 9x19mm pocket guns.

The XD has a retarded grip safety, with a magazine release that is prone to sticking, almost no aftermarket support, almost no armorer support, good trigger, decent accuracy, unreliable magazines, is super top heavy, and is uglier than ****.

A retarded grip safety shared with one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL PISTOL DESIGNS OF ALL TIME! How can you argue with success? The Marines just re-issued a pistol WITH A RETARDED GRIP SAFETY! It has Glock inspired internals (if you don't get what I'm saying, I'm saying they're VERY similar). The magazine release is NOT prone to sticking, I know because I own one, and I know others that own them. Where do you get that the magazines are unreliable? I can go through hundreds of rounds of ammo completely error free and so can everybody else I know. Aesthetics are an individual's preference.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 12:06

Also, the XDs is a COMPLETELY new design from the ground up. You don't really need an armorer to work on this firearm if you are halfway competent working on firearms. However, it is available if you know where to look. For instance James at XD-HS2000 is very experienced and reliable on the XD line, even the XDs. There is also aftermarket support developing. I for instance have Trijicon HD sights on mine. PRP is developing a trigger that is very close to hitting the market, and Springer Precision isn't far behind them. As for grip inserts, they are already out via PRP.

I was wrong, there is already a trigger spring kit out. Here it is from PRP, along with the grip inserts. They would be MORE than competent working on the pistol.
http://shop.powderriverprecision.net/category.sc;jsessionid=3B12859C52B0A7780D6721754B453360.qscstrfrnt02?categoryId=17

Here is James' link for the hell of it. He installs sights perfect every time (they're dovetail sights like Sig, and regular XD line pistols so they're a bitch to install), offers various slide refinishing (Duracoat, KG Guncoat), and is an armorer for all the XD pistols and the XDs.
http://www.shop.xd-hs2000.com

DBZ220

08-26-12, 14:16

My experience with the XD-S has been 100% thus far. I had plans on pocket carrying it as a backup but found it was still just a tad too large/long. Had two of them but decided to part with one in favor of the Beretta Nano for pocket/ankle carry.
The XD-S as mentioned is a totally different design inside when compared to the regular XD line. It's actually more Glock/Kahr-ish.
Mine has been extremely accurate and reliable with everything I've put through it as well, ranging from Winchester Rangers to lead reloads...

ryr8828

08-26-12, 14:57

The croation hate is strong in this thread.

Glock30

08-26-12, 15:13

I am considering getting my ccw permit and was thinking this would be a great pistol for ccw. Anyone have, or shot the xds and what is your opinion of it.

2 people chimed in with worthless info:lazy:

Yes! awesome gun. Very accurate with no malfunctions after 300+ through it.

Advice:
1.Avoid the +p ammo if you can
2.dont rack it like a girl
3.You will need to shoot atleast 150+ to break it in
4. Consider changing the front site fiber from red to green, it picks up better in the light.
5. If you can rent one to shoot I suggest you do it.

I conceal it with an IWB holster by uncle mikes #15 I believe. Good luck finding one at a decent price. The Xds is in high demand and we all know what that does to the price$.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 15:32

2 people chimed in with worthless info:lazy:

Yes! awesome gun. Very accurate with no malfunctions after 300+ through it.

Advice:
1.Avoid the +p ammo if you can
2.dont rack it like a girl
3.You will need to shoot atleast 150+ to break it in
4. Consider changing the front site fiber from red to green, it picks up better in the light.
5. If you can rent one to shoot I suggest you do it.

I conceal it with an IWB holster by uncle mikes #15 I believe. Good luck finding one at a decent price. The Xds is in high demand and we all know what that does to the price$.

This guy knows what he is talking about. Don't forget limp wristing is a no-no too.

m4brian

08-26-12, 15:42

Let me say this - and I am NOT a fan of the grip safety.

The XD grip safety seems to work VERY well - at least in its activation/inactivation, UNLIKE my 2 1911s. I have a 1911 in an 'A1' configuration AND one with a beavertail and safety hump to prevent it not depressing enough. In either one, I have to be careful gripping the gun to get the safety off. This NEVER happens in my XD, and I never hear anyone complain that the 1911 has a grip safety.

Pistol Shooter

08-26-12, 16:09

2 people chimed in with worthless info:lazy:

Yes! awesome gun. Very accurate with no malfunctions after 300+ through it.

Advice:
1.Avoid the +p ammo if you can
2.dont rack it like a girl
3.You will need to shoot atleast 150+ to break it in

1. 300 rds. aren't very many to determine the reliability of a pistol. Exactly what ammo was used?

2. Avoid +P ammo. WTF does this mean? Any decent handgun will handle +P or +P+ ammo for a time.

3. Shoot 150 rds. for break in? Really?

Should a top quality handgun need a break-in period?

But for about $589.00 I'd say its worth a shot. That's a budget pistol IMHO.

WillBrink

08-26-12, 16:30

2 people chimed in with worthless info:lazy:

Yes! awesome gun. Very accurate with no malfunctions after 300+ through it.

300 whole rnds? Well that settles it. What is it about this gun that brings out such clueless responses? :blink:

GlockTalk ->

Glock30

08-26-12, 16:49

1. 300 rds. aren't very many to determine the reliability of a pistol. Exactly what ammo was used?

2. Avoid +P ammo. WTF does this mean? Any decent handgun will handle +P or +P+ ammo for a time.
3. Shoot 150 rds. for break in?
Should a top quality handgun need a break-in period?

But for about $589.00 I'd say its worth a shot. That's a budget pistol IMHO.

Mostly Federal, Winchester, PMC, Corbon
Too much of the +p can cause damage.
Yes...really. At 150 rds it loosen'd up for me.
Top Quality is a subjective term, sorry but I can't answer.

300 whole rnds? Well that settles it. What is it about this gun that brings out such clueless responses? :blink:

GlockTalk ->

My clueless response got your attention, huh. The OP wanted to hear from people who had the gun, not some "clueless" individual like your self who doesn't even own the gun in question!!! I was simply replying to the OP. Consider yourself person #3 with worthless info.

Striker

08-26-12, 17:01

I am considering getting my ccw permit and was thinking this would be a great pistol for ccw. Anyone have, or shot the xds and what is your opinion of it.

Have you ever shot the gun? Have you ever shot any XD pistol? I've shot a couple of XD pistols, didn't love them or hate them and neither was the XD-S. Seemed to work fine, but I didn't own them or need to take care of them. If I was issued one, I wouldn't cry about it, but if I was given a choice, it wouldn't be my first. In the end, you have to shoot the gun to figure it out. To me, .45 and pocket pistol makes me almost as happy as .357 and airweight in the same sentence, meaning not something that I'm overwhelmingly interested in carrying.

If you shoot the pistol and decide it's for you; like every other gun out there, run at least 500 and preferably 1000 rounds through it before you trust it with your life. Break in periods, IMHO, equals excuses, though I will go with Hilton Yam's 1 malfunction in 1000 rounds and be fine. If it can't run from day 1, it either needs to go back to the company for repair, the mags need replacing or the gun needs replacing. Don't make excuses for the gun malfunctioning. If it doesn't work, don't stake your life on it. Either way, good luck and enjoy.

DBZ220

08-26-12, 17:02

LightningFast

08-26-12, 17:10

A retarded grip safety shared with one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL PISTOL DESIGNS OF ALL TIME! How can you argue with success? The Marines just re-issued a pistol WITH A RETARDED GRIP SAFETY! It has Glock inspired internals (if you don't get what I'm saying, I'm saying they're VERY similar). The magazine release is NOT prone to sticking, I know because I own one, and I know others that own them. Where do you get that the magazines are unreliable? I can go through hundreds of rounds of ammo completely error free and so can everybody else I know. Aesthetics are an individual's preference.

Hahahahha you make me laugh. Thank you, sir.

My opinion of the XDs? I'm not a fan, for a number of reasons. Granted, I wanted to put a few more rounds to give it a better shot (no pun intended). But, everybody that I know who owned one sold them off for other guns: Shields, PPS, and Nanos.

WillBrink

08-26-12, 17:26

My clueless response got your attention, huh. The OP wanted to hear from people who had the gun, not some "clueless" individual like your self who doesn't even own the gun in question!!! I was simply replying to the OP. Consider yourself person #3 with worthless info.

I rest my case. Carry on. With that attitude, you shouldn't last long here. Good luck.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 17:27

My remaining XD-S is around 1500rnds now with no problems. This includes a diverse mix of ammo quality too. I half expected it to have issues being a new design but so far so good. I ran it without cleaning for awhile too and it never missed a beat.
Time will tell if it's a solid contender in the subcompact .45 market...

I am close to the 1000rd mark with my XDs. Can't shoot right now due to rotator cuff injections which have me sidelined for a few more weeks. It has been flawless though. People who complain about the caliber must be the same ones who feel a 5.56 AR requires a brake.

I carry mine daily. OP go to your LGS and hold one, fire it if you can. You won't be disappointed.

1. 300 rds. aren't very many to determine the reliability of a pistol. Exactly what ammo was used?

2. Avoid +P ammo. WTF does this mean? Any decent handgun will handle +P or +P+ ammo for a time.

3. Shoot 150 rds. for break in? Really?

Should a top quality handgun need a break-in period?

But for about $589.00 I'd say its worth a shot. That's a budget pistol IMHO.

I agree with some of what you said. The XDs can handle +P ammo for a time, but I wouldn't use it as an everyday plinking round. That's per Dave at SA.

It does have a break in period believe it or not. ~200-300 rounds the trigger gets smoother and a crisper break. There are also very tight tolerances in such a small .45... Think about it

Also it's not a Les Baer 1911 and at $525 (what I paid) its definitely worth it.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 17:32

Not if comparing .45 to 9x19mm pocket guns.

The 3 guns, at their widest points are nearly identical. The XDs in .45 is actually thinner by a minuscule amount, even than your 9x19 firearms mentioned....

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 17:33

I rest my case. Carry on. With that attitude, you shouldn't last long here. Good luck.

You seem to feel you have made a point with the above post. I do not see it. Enlighten me.

Glock30

08-26-12, 17:39

I rest my case. Carry on. With that attitude, you shouldn't last long here. Good luck.

What case? What point?:confused: I challenge you to go back and read the original post by the OP(airman) and add something beneficial that he or she can use. Remember, I was replying to the OP on my experience with the gun in question. I never claimed my words as being the holy grail, but onlymy opinion. What have you done besides criticize my experience with XDs?:suicide2: Oh...and good luck to you and your swat team workout aerobics books/magazines. Awesome!

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 17:46

Here are some pics. Maybe this thread will wind up with some useful info.

My XDs with Trijicon HD sights in orange.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/26e07aed.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/f86c9a2d.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/ad03f635.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/4bf62ae2.jpg

My XDs on the scale:
Fully loaded 5+1 with SD loads. 3 Gold Dot 230gr and 3 Liberty Ammunition Halo Points.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_1103.jpg
Completely empty XDs.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_1105.jpg

My iPhone4 didn't capture the scale photos really well. Hopefully you guys can make out the readings, I will break them down below.

Fully loaded: 1lb 9.2oz - 25.2oz
Completely empty: 1lb 3.6oz - 19.6oz

-Size comparisons of my current XD family-
XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact vs XDm .40S&W 4.5:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0145.jpg
XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact:
With these two images you can really see where the "slim" part comes into play.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0148.jpg
Another closer image of the XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0150.jpg
An image of the XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 4.5:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0149.jpg

NoveskeFan

08-26-12, 18:06

The 3 guns, at their widest points are nearly identical. The XDs in .45 is actually thinner by a minuscule amount, even than your 9x19 firearms mentioned....

Everything I've seen shows the Shield being thinner than the XDs. What's the width of yours?

Glock30

08-26-12, 18:16

good idea CLJ,

here is mine with the green fiber replacement. No flash used on camera, only the light from window. Picks up a little better than the red in my opinion. :dirol:
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy16/Upstar2009/P8100015.jpg

Nephrology

08-26-12, 18:18

Well this thread has just about confirmed my stereotypes about XD owners.

Maybe we can get a Glocktalk subforum going to house threads like this and 9mm v 45 debates

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 18:19

Well this thread has just about confirmed my stereotypes about XD owners.

Would you care to share those? You have said absolutely nothing of value or substance in this thread.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 18:28

Everything I've seen shows the Shield being thinner than the XDs. What's the width of yours?

The slide is 0.9" wide. S&W states their slide is 0.95" wide. At the XDs' widest point it is less than 1" and that is at the take down lever. I don't even know the widest point width of the Shield.

Magic_Salad0892

08-26-12, 18:28

A retarded grip safety shared with one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL PISTOL DESIGNS OF ALL TIME!

That's nice. It's also irrelevant as the materials and execution of the design are different. Also the grip safety on a 1911 is fatter than shit, and you can't grip the pistol without holding it down. On the XD it's thinner than my bony ass hands and you have to be holding the pistol just right. Or else.... gun don't go off.

Also... why the hell do you need a grip safety on a gun with a trigger safety?

I think it should also be mentioned that dragging the 1911 is irrelevant because I don't shoot a 1911 either. The grip safety (among other reasons) is a reason I'll never carry one.

Might also be mentioned that many 1911 users still pin their grip safety so that it's always activated... In fact I think it's either Chuck Rogers, or Dave Barryhill carries a Colt with his grip safety pinned...

How can you argue with success? The Marines just re-issued a pistol WITH A RETARDED GRIP SAFETY!

Still retarded. Even if the Marines issued it. Doesn't change a damn thing. They still issue the Beretta don't they? They still issue the PEQ-16 don't they? Don't even try that...

It has Glock inspired internals (if you don't get what I'm saying, I'm saying they're VERY similar).

I'd never know what the word ''inspired'' means if you didn't tell me. Thank you.

The magazine release is NOT prone to sticking, I know because I own one, and I know others that own them. Where do you get that the magazines are unreliable? I can go through hundreds of rounds of ammo completely error free and so can everybody else I know. Aesthetics are an individual's preference.

I've seen a shitload of XD pistols shot. I know multiple people who own them. And hate them. Especially for carrying, or shooting suppressed. Granted not the XDS and I didn't even know they made another retarded XD spinoff until right now. I've seen their mags BREAK. As in I've seen a feedlip SNAP OFF.

Also, XDs used to be notorious for the mag catch sticking like a mother****er.

I should also bring up that most modern pistols built for heavy firing schedules are using a carbon steel slide, and barrel assembly, with a nitride treatment. Glock, HK, Walther, M&P (stainless steel with nitride, which is retarded, but still...)..

NO POLICE/MIL AGENCY ISSUES THEM. NO INSTRUCTOR ADVOCATES THEM. Isn't that a clue?

Aesthetics are individual preferance. You're right.

And when it comes to .45 v 9, that's just a losing battle unless you're going to argue that you are around a lot of intermediate barriers, and autoglass. In which case, shoot some 124 gr +P stuff, and those problems go away.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 18:44

That's nice. It's also irrelevant as the materials and execution of the design are different. Also the grip safety on a 1911 is fatter than shit, and you can't grip the pistol without holding it down. On the XD it's thinner than my bony ass hands and you have to be holding the pistol just right. Or else.... gun don't go off.

Also... why the hell do you need a grip safety on a gun with a trigger safety?

I think it should also be mentioned that dragging the 1911 is irrelevant because I don't shoot a 1911 either. The grip safety (among other reasons) is a reason I'll never carry one.

Might also be mentioned that many 1911 users still pin their grip safety so that it's always activated... In fact I think it's either Chuck Rogers, or Dave Barryhill carries a Colt with his grip safety pinned...

Still retarded. Even if the Marines issued it. Doesn't change a damn thing. They still issue the Beretta don't they? They still issue the PEQ-16 don't they? Don't even try that...

I'd never know what the word ''inspired'' means if you didn't tell me. Thank you.

I've seen a shitload of XD pistols shot. I know multiple people who own them. And hate them. Especially for carrying, or shooting suppressed. Granted not the XDS and I didn't even know they made another retarded XD spinoff until right now. I've seen their mags BREAK. As in I've seen a feedlip SNAP OFF.

Also, XDs used to be notorious for the mag catch sticking like a mother****er.

I should also bring up that most modern pistols built for heavy firing schedules are using a carbon steel slide, and barrel assembly, with a nitride treatment. Glock, HK, Walther, M&P (stainless steel with nitride, which is retarded, but still...)..

NO POLICE/MIL AGENCY ISSUES THEM. NO INSTRUCTOR ADVOCATES THEM. Isn't that a clue?

Aesthetics are individual preferance. You're right.

And when it comes to .45 v 9, that's just a losing battle unless you're going to argue that you are around a lot of intermediate barriers, and autoglass. In which case, shoot some 124 gr +P stuff, and those problems go away.

You have to be pretty special to grip the pistol and NOT grip the safety. They can be useful even with a trigger safety, especially considering some major LE groups that have discharged their Glock into their thigh.

Rob Leatham doesn't shoot with a pinned grip safety. He's pretty good, no?

Still sounds like you have no personal experience with the weapon and you just admitted to being clueless about this configuration of the XD. I am now questioning whether you should even allowed to be posting in this thread.

No one issues the Shield or PM45 but they're pretty popular.

This mag release issue you speak of is intriguing. Granted, I clean and oil my firearms which some people think should be unnecessary. Mags can break although I have not witnessed it amidst the dozens I have owned.

As you can see with those XD pistols above I have personal experience with this system. Those are not even the only XD pistols I have owned, I have sold a few. They have all been flawless through thousands of rounds. Maybe I have a horseshoe up my ass?

You speak for every instructor?

Mil has no need for this weapon. Nether does most LE. This is purely for every day concealed carry.

Caliber flame wars suck. Let's not go there.

Magic_Salad0892

08-26-12, 18:59

You have to be pretty special to grip the pistol and NOT grip the safety. They can be useful even with a trigger safety, especially considering some major LE groups that have discharged their Glock into their thigh.

Training issue. Don't give me more safeties than I need.

Rob Leatham doesn't shoot with a pinned grip safety. He's pretty good, no?

He makes me wonder if they have the issues ironed out. However... Paul Howe uses a DPMS.... so you never ****in' know.

Still sounds like you have no personal experience with the weapon

After just saying I've seen, and helped friends put thousands of rounds on their pistols, and been witness to their suck.

and you just admitted to being clueless about this configuration of the XD.

Oh. It's a different size. That makes it a totally different animal. That makes sense. Internally, from pics I can find on the internet it looks so similar to the regular XD it shouldn't even matter.

I am now questioning whether you should even allowed to be posting in this thread.

Because I have experience with XDs. Question answered.

No one issues the Shield or PM45 but they're pretty popular.

The Shield just came out. And subcompact pistols don't usually get issued as a primary service pistol. I was talking about the XD line as a whole.

This mag release issue you speak of is intriguing. Granted, I clean and oil my firearms which some people think should be unnecessary. Mags can break although I have not witnessed it amidst the dozens I have owned.

I'd love to see how many XDs could pass a 2k round test.

You speak for every instructor?

I didn't speak FOR anybody. I merely observed that no instructor I know of recommends the XD family of pistols. In fact. I can't even think of a time they've MENTIONED it. But others here can help fill in on that detail.

Mil has no need for this weapon. Nether does most LE. This is purely for every day concealed carry.

Once again. I was talking about the whole XD family.

Caliber flame wars suck. Let's not go there.

Agreed.

CLJ94104

08-26-12, 19:23

Training issue. Don't give me more safeties than I need.

He makes me wonder if they have the issues ironed out. However... Paul Howe uses a DPMS.... so you never ****in' know.

Oh. It's a different size. That makes it a totally different animal. That makes sense. Internally, from pics I can find on the internet it looks so similar to the regular XD it shouldn't even matter.

The Shield just came out.

And subcompact pistols don't usually get issued as a primary service pistol.

I'd love to see how many XDs could pass a 2k round test.

I feel ya.

Lmao!

It is different internally from the free floating striker to the trigger.

The XDs just came out, in June I believe.

Agreed.

Send me ammo! :-D

AKDoug

08-26-12, 20:35

The internals on an XD-S are different from an XD and an XD-M. The internals of a Shield are also different from a standard sized M&P. A Colt Officers model is no 1911 and has it's own special issues separate from it's big brother.

Since both are separate pistols from their big brothers they should analyzed and tested without prejudice of other pistols in their family.

It's unfortunate that we cannot discuss the XD-S without dragging in past history of it's bigger brothers.

If Glock made a single stack subcompact that was as small as either the XD-S or the Shield we would be all over it. Especially if it ejected reliably ;)

airman

08-26-12, 23:29

Failure2Stop

08-27-12, 01:55

Glock30

08-27-12, 07:39

Sorry guys,didnt mean to start a war over this. I have an early model para ordnance ccw in 45 with a 4.25 inch barrel and the lda trigger that shoots great and is very reliable but being all stainless steel is just too heavy to carry concealed all the time. I also have a px4storm subcompact 9mm that shoots good but seems to be more finicky about the ammo it likes and it just feels to thick for comfortable ccw. I have handled the xds and like the feel of it and think it would make a good easy to conceal large caliber gun. I have read mixed reviews and have not had a chance to shoot one so wanted to hear anyones opinion and experiance with this new gun. thanks for any info.

:D Typical forum jaw-jacking! It's never personal and never intended to be a war. The goal here was to give personal/experience of the gun in question, so good luck on what ever you decide on. The XDs conceals nice and is very light. Be aware of the grip after shooting numerous rounds through the Xds. It will give your hand a real work out.

This might answer more questions for you.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-s-discussion-room/

thecolter

08-27-12, 10:20

I just picked one up this weekend. I haven't had a chance to get out to the range with it yet, but I plan on writing up a mini-review once I do.

Initial impressions:

The pistol is perfect for concealed carry for someone my size (5'6", 145 lbs) and the loaded weight is not bad at all.

With only dry firing the pistol, I can say that the trigger is actually very nice for a stock pistol. While heavy (around 6.5+lbs?), it has a nice crisp break and a very short and tactile reset. This is a MUCH better stock trigger than my XD-45c had out of the box.

I'll post more once I get some rounds through it.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7872965456_362d743c96_z.jpg

Along side my XD-45c for size comparison:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7873034972_4fef6f04a4_z.jpg

trinydex

08-27-12, 13:28

At the very least...

You can rack the slide on the XDs when the grip safety is NOT depressed.

That is a welcome change.

i hate this. i hate being left handed and having to fumble **** this most basic of manipulations every time i handle an xd.

Magic_Salad0892

08-27-12, 15:52

packinaglock

08-27-12, 18:07

I hope nobody feels like I was flaming CLJ94104, as I feel as though I was just stating my opinion about the XD family, and was defending myself when I was questioned about said opinion. Which CLJ94104 had every right to do.

I really wouldn't really call it flaming, just stating what a lot of us feel about the XD's. :D

Magic_Salad0892

08-27-12, 18:25

Dude, sometimes it seems like someone could make a post claiming that hamster turds are a poor substitute for ice cream sprinkles and people will want to argue with you about it.
Don't feel bad, it's the internet, and it brings out the inner asshole in a lot of us apparently.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

They make an awful substitute.

Cazwell

08-27-12, 22:56

They make an awful substitute.

Agreed; they only come in one color.

Steve S.

08-28-12, 00:43

Magic_Salad0892

08-28-12, 03:49

Hey! They aren't THAT bad. Some of us can't afford things like sprinkles, so we get the next best thing... hamster turds.

If you knew anything about substitutes you'd be using the lungs of deceased human smokers. Grind 'em up into little chunks, and they'll give your ice cream a nice smokey taste. As if it were barbeque ice cream. Bitchin'.

airman

09-15-12, 23:26

Ok guys, I know most on here are xd haters but yesterday I purchased a new xds 45 acp for 499. bucks. This is the new single stack 45 with 5 round clip + 1 in chamber and only weighs 29 oz fully loaded. I brought the gun home and checked for obstructions in the bore and then ran 30 rnds of some reloads I had at home with no ftf or fte. Gun seems to be accurate at 20 yards which is pretty good considering it only has a 3.3 inch barrel. This morning I ran another 150 rounds of reloads with no problems again. So far this little gun has really impressed me with accuracy and reliability. It also is not hard on recoil for such a small gun and I think I have found a very good ccw weapon for a reasonable price.

AKDoug

09-15-12, 23:33

Big thread on this already. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=111606&highlight=XDs

Added on edit*** looks like you started that one too ***

wobby

09-19-12, 23:21

Added on edit*** looks like you started that one too ***

its the same thread.

AKDoug

09-19-12, 23:26

Yep..now it is. They merged the two threads and made me look like an ass...but that's pretty easy to do.

NCPatrolAR

09-20-12, 05:23

Yep..now it is. They merged the two threads and made me look like an ass...but that's pretty easy to do.

You're welcome :D

RogerinTPA

09-20-12, 09:27

Maybe worthless to you, but truthful non the less...Not meaning to "dog pile" here, but 300 rounds ain't much. I burn through that on a typical range visit. If you had shot 1000 rounds in a couple of weekends or inside a month, without a malfunction, that would be more impressive.

I own M&Ps across the board. The lowest round count gun is the 45 with 10K on it. The high gun is the FS 9 (training gun) with 20K+. I am curious about the durability of this weapon though, to see how far the XDs have come along as far as quality is concerned (have or have not improved). Keep a record of the round count at various stages (1K, 2K, 3K, etc...), noting the type of malfunctions & breakages along the way, and keep us posted...or not. The only way the XD series is going to shake the flees off of it's reputation is by honest, no shit evaluations from our members.

2 people chimed in with worthless info:lazy:

Yes! awesome gun. Very accurate with no malfunctions after 300+ through it.

uwe1

09-20-12, 10:07

You're welcome :D

Oh shit, I can't stop laughing.....

thecolter

09-20-12, 10:13

I have just over 500 rounds through mine, most being reloads. I know this is nowhere close to the thousands of rounds I have through my FS M&P9, but I haven’t had a lot of time to get out to the range since I picked up the pistol and I’ve also been saving ammo for my 1911 that will be here today. So far the XD-S has performed flawlessly except a FTF caused by a flipped primer in the round, a problem that was definitely my fault and not that of the pistol. It has fed everything without issue and I have no reason to not be confident with the pistol. It is very accurate for such a small pistol and the recoil impulse is much softer than what you would expect. Right now I’m waiting on the slide to return after shipping it off to have Trijicon HD night sights installed. As soon as it’s back there will be more rounds put through it.

Ammunition used so far:
- 100 rds 230 gr Federal Value Pack
- 100 rds 230 gr WWB
- 250 rds 230 gr reloads (4.6 grains of titegroup with a mix of round nose, flat nose, and hollow point)
- 20 rounds 230 gr Speer Gold Dot
- 20 rounds 185 gr Speer Gold Dot
- 20 rounds 230 gr Winchester PDX-1
- Ammo friends used when wanting to shoot it (didn’t keep track)

I still intend on doing a more thought out write up on the XD-S once I get more rounds through it and have the time to put it together.

AKDoug

09-20-12, 10:38

Oh shit, I can't stop laughing.....

Made me smile too.

brickboy240

09-20-12, 12:24

New people here don't know that unless it is a Glock or HK...other polymer guns receive little love around here. Sometimes the M&P gets some love, too.

(sort of like AEIOU and sometimes Y.....Glock, HK and sometimes M&P LOL)

I once asked if the XDm was a viable alternative to my brass to the face G19. You should search for that thread and read up.

That new XD does look tempting and if if has Glock or HK stamped on its slide....we'd probably all be lining up to buy it! LOL

-brickboy240

yellowfin

09-20-12, 14:03

HK can go sit spread cheeked on a telephone pole for their lack of respect for me as a civilian shooter. As long as they think having a badge is requisite for their more interesting products they won't get a dime from me.

Glock30

09-20-12, 18:25

Maybe worthless to you, but truthful non the less...Not meaning to "dog pile" here, but 300 rounds ain't much.

300 whole rnds? Well that settles it. What is it about this gun that brings out such clueless responses? :blink:

You guy are critical of my 300rd remark, huh:confused: Fast foward to the 9:29 frame of video and argue with that guy about his 300rds;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fmr8iZyeXw

RogerinTPA

09-20-12, 20:43

You guy are critical of my 300rd remark, huh:confused: Fast foward to the 9:29 frame of video and argue with that guy about his 300rds;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fmr8iZyeXw

I could give two shits about that guy or for an individual who shot a few rounds and deems his firearm as "flawless".:sarcastic:

Odglock

09-20-12, 21:20

:o
1. 300 rds. aren't very many to determine the reliability of a pistol. Exactly what ammo was used?

2. Avoid +P ammo. WTF does this mean? Any decent handgun will handle +P or +P+ ammo for a time.

3. Shoot 150 rds. for break in? Really?

Should a top quality handgun need a break-in period?

But for about $589.00 I'd say its worth a shot. That's a budget pistol IMHO.

When did xdS become "top quality"?

MattHallman

09-21-12, 07:03

I have owned 5 xd/xdm platforms ranging from subcompact to fullsize, 9mm-45acp.
That said I have never had a malfunction except with some super light hand loads for one of the 9mm, but that wasnt the guns fault.
Yes they are "budget" guns compared to other poly guns I will agree.
On the same note some Glocks can be had for less but everyone agrees that they are excellent including myself.
Would I carry a XD/XDm for duty? No I would not, just personal preference.
I do know some LEOs in my state that do. Mostly XD45 compacts.
As far as the aftermarket goes there are a ton more options with the regular XD line. I shopped with PRP, Springer Precision, Pistol Gear, and Canyon Creek Custom.
I have never had any mag issues either. All of mine had well over 2-3k rounds each. I even had a cheap 34rd Promag in a 9mm that worked flawlessly.

So, is it worth buying? Sure it is. People carry a lot worse that this.

I personally sold all of mine for Glocks and 1911s if that tells you anything.

People I know with the XDS love them as much as the other xd platforms. I would wait for the price to go down before I purchased one though.

Glock30

09-21-12, 17:11

:o

When did xdS become "top quality"?

no one said that XD was "top quality" in that quote:confused: you making up stuff now :p

packinaglock

09-21-12, 17:59

I have owned 5 xd/xdm platforms ranging from subcompact to fullsize, 9mm-45acp.
That said I have never had a malfunction except with some super light hand loads for one of the 9mm, but that wasnt the guns fault.
Yes they are "budget" guns compared to other poly guns I will agree.
On the same note some Glocks can be had for less but everyone agrees that they are excellent including myself.
Would I carry a XD/XDm for duty? No I would not, just personal preference.
I do know some LEOs in my state that do. Mostly XD45 compacts.
As far as the aftermarket goes there are a ton more options with the regular XD line. I shopped with PRP, Springer Precision, Pistol Gear, and Canyon Creek Custom.
I have never had any mag issues either. All of mine had well over 2-3k rounds each. I even had a cheap 34rd Promag in a 9mm that worked flawlessly.

So, is it worth buying? Sure it is. People carry a lot worse that this. I personally sold all of mine for Glocks and 1911s if that tells you anything.

People I know with the XDS love them as much as the other xd platforms. I would wait for the price to go down before I purchased one though.

Hi-points? :D

Odglock

09-21-12, 22:28

no one said that XD was "top quality" in that quote:confused: you making up stuff now :p

It sure seems like he did...

Magic_Salad0892

10-23-12, 18:52

Why did you just revive two old XD threads, just to brag about your M&P?

Kimberstanko

10-23-12, 19:44

Sorry guys. I was trying to get to 30 posts so that I could post my own topic. Wont happen again.

r1derbike

11-02-12, 22:10

I'm late to the party, buy my XD-S has been flawless over 600 rounds, shoots +P ammo fine, and keeps my wife warm-n-cozy when I'm not home, or at least that's what the XD-S says.

It's all crap. Buy whatever brand piece of crap you prefer.

I'm not prejudiced. It's all crap.

TriviaMonster

11-03-12, 11:22

I held an XDs a couple times in the last few days. It certainly is small and I would have no problem concealing it, even on an ankle. It's pretty impressive how small it is.

But, I question my ability to shoot it well. It just doesn't seem big enough for me to really dump a ton of rounds, reload quickly, and do it all again. I am sure enough training would let me manipulate the gun well, but I have also noticed that small guns and their tiny magazines gives me issues.

Small magazines like the XDs uses tend to cause me to fumble if I am reloading from a CCW style shoot (ie magazines are under a layer of clothing, as is the gun).

I also question whether or not the recoil is too much for the trade off with size. The gun was comfy with my size large hands, but I couldn't get a good enough purchase to think that I could shoot the gun well with the recoil I assume it has.

These are all just assumptions so I will shoot the gun before I come to a real conclusion.

I do like XD's though, I have an XDm 3.8 9mm FS that I like very much.

r1derbike

11-03-12, 12:51

Here's my take on recoil. Since it has a low boreline, the felt recoil is a hard push, instead of a snappy, muzzle flipping experience, one might have with a small frame .40 caliber weapon. It is very manageable, unlike its small size might have one to believe.

It does take a firm grip. Best thing to do is rent one at a range and see how it feels. If you don't like the purchase with your large hands, then maybe it's not for you.

All that said, it is not a range gun. As you noticed, it is not a multi-round darling being single-stack, but it is a tradeoff. Many are getting the 7-round magazine for backup, giving 8 rounds with one in the pipe. It works well for its intended purpose; large bore CCW. It really doesn't pretend to be anything else.

I like mine, but it has taken a lot of dryfire and range work to shoot it well (adequately, for me).

nickdrak

11-03-12, 13:19

The complaints about the grip safety mechanism on the XD/XDm line are valid from my experience.

When shooting one handed from retention it is not difficult did-engage the grip safety causing a dead trigger. The other complaint is that unless you have the grip safety fully engaged the slide will not unlock during immediate & remedial action clearing.

I have been able to replicate both instances quite easily with XD & XDm's. It sounds like this new XDs subcompact .45 has the locking of the slide issue fixed but the size of the grip safety on it looks very similar to those on the previous XD designs which would still concern me regarding the shooting from retention/dead trigger issue.

I think if they just simply ditched the grip safety on the XD line they would have a pretty solid design.

r1derbike

11-03-12, 13:37

I think if they just simply ditched the grip safety on the XD line they would have a pretty solid design.Agreed. Once, at the range, I sloppily drew the weapon and didn't have a high enough grip to disengage the safety, resulting in locked/dead trigger. Immediately knew what was up and did the one-handed release grip and grab higher. This happened once in over 600 rounds, and was my fault. I don't know if it would happen in a SHTF scenario, but at least I'm aware of it now, and purposely draw with higher grip. Also agree from a personal view it is not necessary, but live with it like the 1911 guys.

nickdrak

11-03-12, 13:42

A modern 1911 grip safety is nearly impossible to not engage properly with a one handed grip.

m4brian

11-03-12, 15:18

The grip safety is not necessary, and Browning was forced to implement it.

However, the XD GS is a heck of a lot better than the 1911 GS. I've handled the XD thousands of times, and have never not activated it. Maybe my hands are weird, but I have not properly activated the grip safety on my 1911s many times. This is especially true if you use a high hands grip. But, you'll never hear anyone say that the 1911 is a 'range toy'.

Glock30

11-09-12, 18:37

6 month and Im still glad I purchased this xds

JJay03

11-09-12, 22:32

XDM's are really good guns not too much to knock about them. I slightly prefer a glock design though. I prefer the ergos of the XDM and shoot a XDM better once equipped with a good trigger. Get a PRP Ultimate Match Target Trigger Kit and the XDM is a whole new animal. I never had any issues with the GS but I also never done any timed shooting with it.

djmorris

11-11-12, 14:03

For $600, I'd expect it to be fine shooting +P or +P+ or freakin' ++++P++++ so what's the deal?

I will say I used to own a XD9 Sub-Compact and it never skipped a beat. I sold it because I had read about XD's issues and what-not. I never had a problem with the grip safety and honestly liked it better than most 1911 grip safeties.

m4brian

11-12-12, 09:23

lifewithoutparole

11-12-12, 17:34

I seriously looked at the XDS for ccw (locally it can be had for 549.00) as I own and love my XDM 9mm. And I looked at the shield in 9mm since I have a friend with one and it is sweet. However I liked the sig P938 (9mm only) the best so back went the XDS into the case. Wish I could shoot an XDS to see how it handles.

airman

11-13-12, 09:22

my neighbor used mine a couple of nights ago while we were checking his cows driving through the pasture and killed an oppossum.It took him three shots but it was the first time he had shot my xds. He said he was expecting more recoil from such a little gun but he was impressed with it also. Just the opinions of a couple of backwoods rednecks from arkansas.

bruce21b

11-17-12, 17:00

currahee

11-17-12, 17:41

I'm a confirmed Glock fanboy, my dad (just to be obstinate) went for the XD. He's a believer in the 45 "because they don't make a 46," if you know the type.

He recently got an XDs, he has about 500 rounds through it, had one hiccup early on I think we blamed it on the ammo. I don't trust XDs or M&Ps to the hardcore durability level that I do my Glocks, but I don't really hate either.

I had the opportunity to shoot it a couple of weeks ago. I had good impressions. I was able to get groups as good as I can with my G19. I'm not a fan of sub compacts and shooting the 45 from such a small frame is noticeable- especially with +P ammo, but it was more pleasant than some of the supper compact 9s and 380s I have shot (KelTec.) I don't think I could shoot 200-300 rounds through it like I do during a normal training session with a G19.

I don't lose sleep because my dad carries an XDs. I would almost always rather see people practice more than worry about what gun they have.

C4IGrant

11-17-12, 17:53

there sure is a lot of hate on this fourm...

i don't post that often but would like to contribute, i own two XD pistols, one for CCW....its an XD40 service....

anyone who hates on the XD talks about the grip-safety, and i honestly cannot see how it is even an issue....you do not even notice it.....and to not activate it, you would literally have to not even be gripping the gun......

the 1911 has a far worse grip safety in size and actuation, but everybody loves them.....

i just bought an XDs and so far i love it,,,only got a couple hundred round through it but if it is like my other two, will be flawless as well...

Bruce

The issues (at least for me) are not the the fact that I cannot activate the grip safety, but more about the fact that debris can get in there and render the firearm useless. I have seen this and have heard about it.

The 1911 grip safety has a much tighter fit to the frame so the same issue not there.

C4

r1derbike

11-17-12, 20:51

I clean mine every 450 rounds or so, whether it needs it or not! :rolleyes:

It has an extremely steep feed ramp. It must not get slippery-goozum, uckum-pucky, dirty dishwater or sewer effluent in there.

It stays IWB most of the time, so I'm sure it gets all the above, and more in the works. A clean XD-S is a happy XD-S. It is a carry weapon for Christsakes.

Perhaps they should have engineered a forward assist in it? :rolleyes:

proxpilot

11-18-12, 18:54

I love my XD-S, hard to find anything bad about it. had a couple issues early on but they were user error.

a1fabweld

11-18-12, 21:00

For what it's worth, I have many XD's raning from 9-40-45 (The XDs isn't legal in CA or I'd have that too) & I have yet to have a single failure in any of them. They are very accurate, well balanced, & have proven in my experience to be 100% reliable. Just blew through about 500 rounds with my XD9 Service last night without @ single issue. The grip angle suits me much better on the XD than the Glock. I like them both but the XD gets it for me.

Some guys don't like XD platform & that's fine. IDGAF. Mine do exactly what I want them to do & I trust them 100%.

Rompnstomp

11-23-12, 18:57

Grr. Flawless as a definition of a firearm designed to defend its user is as useless as fit and finish. That tells me nothing about the performance of said firearm. This site is for those that are serious about defensive use of firearms. We don't hate XDs. we prefer better, more reliable weapons. Weapons. That is the difference. Guns can be flawless or any other over used description. Weapons must perform under as many adverse conditions as possible.

I suppose we should change the name of the sight to M4weapon.net to avoid further confusion.

r1derbike

11-23-12, 22:55

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/r1derbike/Airguns/SAXDS45ACP.jpgYup...CC goodness.

a1fabweld

11-24-12, 12:42

Cutting Through the Hype and Myths: Is the XD Good Enough for Professional Use?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post is an exploration of the popular myths, hype, and misinformation floating around about Springfield XD/XDM pistols; specifically, the suitability of the XD/XDM for professional use. I would like to share some information that I have been gathering for several months now. Just so you know where I'm coming from on this subject...I'm a police officer with a large PD in Texas. I'm a firearms instructor in several disciplines and am currently assigned full-time to the Training Unit. I have worked patrol and criminal investigations. I spent 8 years on a well-respected SWAT team and have had some excellent luck in SWAT competitions and USPSA/3-Gun matches. I have received formal training at some of the best schools in the country and from trainers who are widely acknowledged to be among the best in the business. I am professionally experienced with Glocks, S&W, and multiple variations of the 1911. I am personally familiar with Sig, CZ-75, Para-Ordnance, Beretta, and several other semi-auto pistols. I do not purport to be an expert or a "gun guru" but it's appropriate to say I have a practical and professional foundation where shooting and handguns are concerned. I carried a 1911 for 10 years and I carried a Glock 22 before that and I still believe both of those platforms are excellent for LE duty.

I currently use a Springfield XDM (.40 S&W) for my duty weapon and have about 10K rounds through it with no problems whatsoever. I do not have an emotional attachment to any duty weapon. If a pistol is unsafe or no good for saving my life, my family members' lives, or your life, then I won't carry it....period. I have always said that if anyone could offer any evidence that XD/XDM pistols are unsafe or unsuitable for duty use, I would ditch mine immediately and tell everyone else to do the same. Thus far, the overwhelming majority of my research has shown nothing of the kind. I conducted extensive research (emails, phone calls, internet, actually shooting them, examining the XD's used at my agency, etc.) on XD/XDM pistols, trying to chase down the internet myths and stories told by a small number of people who claim the XD is not suitable for duty purposes. I made contact with pretty much all of my resources which includes trainers, shooters, and end users at numerous, "Tier 1" LE and MIL organizations. I pretty much pulled every string I could with old teammates and current colleagues and those guys made phone calls and forwarded my emails to their old units and talked to current members. I even looked into the secret testing hinted at on another forum and I was able to get an answer on that. I have received specific information about the real-world test results of the XD/XDM from trainers and firearms gurus employed by the absolute best organizations/teams in North America.

The bottom line:
There's nothing wrong with XD/XDM pistols and they have "beaten" other popular pistols in some tests even as they have been "beaten" by those same pistols in other trials. I am not allowed to publicly distribute the test results that were sent to me. I have confirmed that some of the largest police departments in the U.S. extensively tested the XD/XDM pistol and found the platform to be reliable and robust. Many smaller departments and professional users have come to this same conclusion after conducting their own testing.

By far, the biggest weak spot on XD/XDM pistols is the roll pin in the top of the slide. That pin is known as the “Striker Retainer Pin” and it is quite possible to break after extensive dry firing or under extreme usage. If that pin breaks, your striker (AKA: “firing pin”) can be seized and your pistol may not fire. Some users report being able to fire their XD's with the pin broken and/or removed. I have confirmed several instances in which the pin broke and caused the pistol to cease functioning. Luckily for all XD users, the pin is easily replaced. The white arrow in the picture below is pointing to the striker retainer pin:

When one of the top 5 largest PD's in the U.S. conducted hard-core testing of five (5) XD pistols, the factory pin broke in one of the sample pistols and it stopped functioning. They replaced it with a stronger pin from a Sig pistol and kept shooting without incident. A SWAT officer whose XD was used in the Texas SWAT Competition and the Florida SWAT Roundup (where it was subjected to use in water and sand) was recently having his pistol serviced by an armorer and the pin was found to be partially broken when removed from the slide. That officer had fired thousands of rounds through the pistol during the train up for both comps and the pistol continued to function.

The pin that Springfield uses is a single layer of rolled metal that looks like this:

Powder River Precision and other suppliers offers stronger striker retainer pins that look like this:

If you run your XD hard or if you just want peace of mind, you should replace the pin. They are available at many industrial outlets or you can buy a set from Powder River Precision for $12.00. You can also call (541) 403-2999 to buy them over the phone.

"If XD pistols are so great then why didn't [insert name of team/unit/dept here] adopt them?"
I asked this question of every person I talked to about XD/XDM pistols. After all, critics of this platform (especially fans of the Glock and M&P) do have a point about the XD/XDM not being formally adopted by a major PD/.MIL/.GOV agency. The answers to this question usually broke down into four basic forms:

1) They're made in Croatia and the people in charge of purchasing/procurement believe that's an unstable region of the world which may or may not necessarily be a friend to the U.S. We're not prepared to enter into a commitment which would require us to use a pistol made there. There's plenty of good pistols made in the U.S. or Western Europe that work just fine. We're not switching.

2) We really liked it but the pistols we have now are working fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We're not changing over to another polymer framed pistol when our Glocks are working just fine.

3) We really liked it but we already have a relationship with [insert name of company here]. Why would we want to jeopardize that by switching to a new pistol now?

4) We don't have the money to buy all new pistols and holsters right now. Budgets are shrinking and there's no way I'm going to call the [insert title of potentate who controls $$ here] to request that we dump our current weapons and buy something new.

Regarding the claims that XD's have been jammed so badly that they had to be sent back to the factory while still loaded:
Springfield Armory LE reps informed me that this is untrue and that no such incidents have occurred. The LE rep informed me that these stories are internet myths with no basis in fact. She stated that there have been a few people send pistols back with bullets lodged in the barrel due to squib loads. She also stated that when the XD's were first released, some people horribly jammed their pistols while reassembling them by pressing down on the barrel hood while also forcing the slide/barrel assembly back on to the frame (BTW: There's a quick and easy fix for this and no it does not involve beating on the pistol with a mallet). These few instances may have been the root of the internet myth in question. Springfield Armory LE Reps state that there are no recorded instances of XD pistols suffering catastrophic, unfixable-except-at-the-factory jams while being loaded, unloaded, or fired. It's internet myth. I have discussed this issue with trained XD/XDM armorers and long-time users who likewise deny that it's a realistic story.

Regarding claims that XD's cannot be manipulated with one hand (AKA: Incapacitation Drills or Wounded Hand Shooting)
This is simply not true. Despite the fact that the slide cannot be retracted unless the grip safety is depressed, the XD/XDM can be effectively manipulated, loaded, cleared, and fired with one hand, including the "weak" hand. I have tested and demonstrated this myself in the presence of other trainers. I am seriously considering making a video which proves that the XD/XDM can be successfully and normally manipulated in the same one-handed/incapacitation drills that will work with any other duty pistol (e.g. Glock, Sig, 1911, H&K, etc.). The grip safety on the XD requires so little pressure to activate it that it's almost (I say almost) negligible.

Regarding claims that Springfield Armory does not offer ample support for LE or the professional end user
It is true that for years, there was not a great deal of end user or aftermarket support for XD/XDM pistols. That is no longer the case. There is now ample after-market support and accessories available for the XD/XDM. For police and military personnel, Springfield Armory is now offering armorer's courses via Team One Network. Spare parts, tools, and all other standard accouterments for the professional user have been available for several years now. Speaking from personal and professional experience, Springfield Armory's customer service is both responsive and eager to please.

Regarding claims that XD/XDM pistols begin to break down after a high round count:
Every time I tried to validate this claim, I ran into a dead end. Nearly every claim I have read or seen about this turns out to be from the internet or a "guy I know who knows a cop who heard it at a shooting school" or "a secret government test that I cannot tell you about but believe me it happened." I'm a professional who works off evidence, probable cause, and facts. When I hear critics bashing any weapons system or TTP, I look at their professional background and then I try to get the answer to this question: What do you know and how do you know it? There is a lot of anecdotal information about XD/XDM pistols supposedly breaking down and failing horribly after 30K or 40K rounds. I have been unable to locate corroborating evidence of this. When you start asking people hard questions such as, "What's his name? What agency does he work for? When did this happen? Who can I talk to about this incident? Were you there? Did you see it? Did you contact Springfield Armory about this?" the claims dry up right quick.

Links to reports about the quality, durability, and "shootability" of XD pistols:

Ron Avery on the XD

XD "Torture Test"

Old Review from HiPowers and Handguns

Clint Smith on the XD

20,000 Rounds Test

Two Bullet Test

Another "Torture Test"

Clint Smith Again on XD's

Chuck Taylor on the XD

Ken Hackathorn on XD's

Ken Hackathorn Again on XD's

Opinions regarding Springfield vs. Glock vs. S&W vs. Every Other Polymer Pistol
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Glocks or S&W M&P's. I have personally owned and tested an M&P in .40 (with lots of work done by Burwell Gunsmithing) and I found it to be a great pistol that has its own strong and weak points. I currently own a Glock 22 that I am about to send to Boresight Solutions for recountouring and stippling. All serious shooters have their favorite platforms and we all have our prejudices. It is apparent that for some critics, when Glocks or M&P pistols suffer stoppages or broken parts, the failures are considered to be anomalies or inconveniences that are easily remedied/replaced. For some of these same critics, identical stoppages and failures in XD pistols serve as confirmation of a deeply held belief that the platform is inherently flawed and unreliable. One thing my research has indicated is that there does seem to be a very small but very vocal bit of prejudice against the XD/XDM platform voiced by a few individuals who have an axe to grind against Springfield Armory. I will not discuss this further except to say that a professional and reputable source informed me that one well-respected shooter/trainer who regularly bashes the XD/XDM only does so because Springfield Armory refused to sponsor him. Most importantly, my research has confirmed that much of what one reads on internet forums, even the good ones, should be thoroughly vetted and double-checked before believing it....and that includes the post you are reading right now.

There is no such thing as a perfect pistol...the 4 other faults of the XD/XDM:

1) For some people, the bore axis is too high. Much like Sig pistols, XD's have a significant, reciprocating mass high above the shooter's hand and this makes recoil management more difficult than with some other pistols. A low bore axis is one of the strong selling points of the S&W M&P pistol. For those who are accustomed to Sigs or some H&K models, the XD/XDM slide doesn't seem obtrusive at all. For those who are coming from a Glock, 1911, or M&P perspective, it does.

2) It can be difficult to press the magazine release and drop a fully loaded, or "mostly loaded" magazine. This makes tactical reloads or magazine removal difficult when you have a lot of cartridges still in the mag...but then...why would you do a tactical reload after only a few rounds anyway? This issue reminds me of the controversy with Glock magazines when they first came out. You may recall that Glock mags were not metal-lined and would bulge when fully loaded, thus preventing them from dropping free from the pistol even when you pressed the magazine release. Glock originally stated this was a benefit because it would mean that a fully loaded magazine would stay where it belonged in the event that the magazine release was inadvertently pressed. That was probably BS even if it sorta kinda makes sense. More to the point, if you suffer a serious stoppage (during the first few rounds out of a full magazine) which would require you to drop the magazine out of the pistol, you might have a hard time doing it if you don't press the magazine release hard enough. The way to get around this is to download the magazine by one round. If you prefer to use a fully loaded magazine, you can also press up on the base of the magazine with your support hand as you press the magazine release with your strong hand thumb. (You can also get serious about your hand strength by using Captains of Crush hand grippers.) It should be noted that once you've fired a couple of rounds out of a full magazine, it's quite easy to drop the magazine by simply pressing the magazine release. Regardless, this is seen by some as a flaw in the system....and it probably is.

3) The trigger could use some work, especially on regular XD's. The reset is considered to be too long by most serious shooters. The factory trigger can also be a bit "mushy." The XDM trigger is a significant improvement over the regular XD, which is one of the reasons I carry it. While Springfield Armory does a phenomenal XD trigger job in their own custom shop, they should consider taking lessons from Springer Precision or Powder River Precision. If they do it right, they could probably put a superb trigger in there for a total cost of an additional $50 per unit. Maybe this is too much to ask when considering the slim profit margins on firearms and the realistic expectations of the average purchaser. FWIW, I have been using the stock XDM trigger for 2 years now and have been shooting great with it. It's fine for tactical and duty work. I have shot a few matches with it but I admit that it would not be good enough for serious USPSA/IDPA competition.

4) While relatively minor for most users, the factory sights are set to more of a "pumpkin on a post" or classic bullseye sight picture that looks like this:

This becomes especially apparent at 10 yards and beyond. Some serious shooters, such as competition shooters and professionals who train to make hostage rescue shots prefer a sight picture that is truly point-of-aim/point-of-impact and which looks more like this sight picture where the blue dot represents the actual impact of the bullet:

Sumary and Conclusion:
Most if not all of the internet myths about XD/XDM pistols have been busted. There have been some valid criticisms of individual XD pistols which were found to be faulty. However, there is no probable cause to believe that XD/XDM pistols are not suitable for duty use, even after extensive firing. It should be noted that all pistol brands break and malfunction. All weapons manufacturers produce lemons; this includes manufacturers such as Glock, Sig, and Colt. I've seen it with my own eyes. To date, no quantitative, objective evidence has been presented to support the claim that Springfield XD's are more likely to break and/or malfunction than other polymer framed pistols.

As mentioned above, the lack of support for professional users of the XD/XDM has been solved. Parts, accessories, armorer's tools, and holsters are now readily available for the XD/XDM. Law enforcement armorer training is available and Springfield Armory has been supportive of the LE market.

Professional users of XD/XDM pistols are strongly advised to replace the factory striker retainer pin with a more robust model. Shooters who require a true POA/POI sight picture may wish to consider changing the sights. Excellent options for sight replacements can be found HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE.

I have about 10K rounds through my XDM with no no breakages of any kind and no serious malfunctions. The pistol has been accurate and dependable thus far. Contrary to internet myth, the magazines are solidly built and function well. The weapon functions as it should and has not failed me yet. However, I have taken my own advice in the paragraph above and upgraded the roll pin.

While it may not seem so when reading passionate internet discussions about pistols, we are actually living in a "golden age" of semi-automatic pistols. The pistols that are being produced today are among the best hand held weaponry made in the history of mankind. There is a good pistol out there for you. Use objective, common sense criteria to pick the one that meets your mission essential tasks, test it thoroughly, and then drive on.

Thank you for reading this. I sincerely hope it helps you with your decision to purchase, discard, retain, or upgrade your XD/XDM.

r1derbike

11-24-12, 13:09

Outstanding write-up, but your links didn't make it into the article.

Perhaps some non-believers will at least give the platform a try, instead of parroting basher's comments.

I love my XD-S. It was the right choice for me, maybe not for others.

Very balanced article.

a1fabweld

11-24-12, 13:14

Sorry. Link: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/156561-cutting-through-hype-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html

r1derbike

11-24-12, 13:33

The article looks like it was from 2010, and unfortunately, many of the links are broken. Still, with a little hunting and searching, I believe anyone interested in an SA platform will get a true picture of the firearms.

CFII

11-24-12, 19:24

r1derbike

11-24-12, 21:22

I was at the LGS looking for a Xmas present for my wife and they had an XDS. I have never liked the XD but I was very impressed with that little 45. Machining and fit and finish was flawless, it locked up tight, the sights were great for a stock handgun, and the trigger was pretty damn good.

Id like the chance to shoot one.You won't be disappointed. If thinking about one for your wife, there is a ladies' owner thread on XDTalk forum, I'll link when I find it...

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-s-discussion-room/209271-official-ladies-xds-owners-club.html

Abraxas

11-24-12, 21:43

there sure is a lot of hate on this fourm...

i don't post that often but would like to contribute, i own two XD pistols, one for CCW....its an XD40 service....

anyone who hates on the XD talks about the grip-safety, and i honestly cannot see how it is even an issue....you do not even notice it.....and to not activate it, you would literally have to not even be gripping the gun......

the 1911 has a far worse grip safety in size and actuation, but everybody loves them.....

i just bought an XDs and so far i love it,,,only got a couple hundred round through it but if it is like my other two, will be flawless as well...

Bruce
Well, if I dont have the grip safety quite perfectly on my 1911 I can still work the slide, not so on the XD's I have used and seen. At the last qual for my department some of the people who carry XD's were having a hell of a time when we were doing certain "wounded stoppage" drills because of that feature.

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 07:01

a1fabweld, just so you know (for future reference), Ken Hackathorn is not a fan of the pistol. In regards to the other instructors listed, I don't know if their opinion has changed or not.

C4

RamadiDoorkicker

11-25-12, 07:50

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 08:08

I am NOT a pistol expert and NOT going to talk as if I am. However, I own several XD's and have since the first line was released. I like it enough to keep buying them. I've had 6 friends make the XD their first tactical pistol purchase after shooting mine. That says something...Also good to note that my experience with Springfield Armory has been top notch regardless of which of their weapons were in question...Get a feel for a few different pistols before commiting. Especially, if you are like me and purchasing a new gun is a pretty big deal on the wallet...Good luck!

Uneducated (first time pistol buyers) choosing a gun that you bought really doesn't say much (as they simply don't know what they don't know).

My Father bought me a Ruger P85 for my first pistol. I thought it was awesome. Then as an adult, I purchased a Taurus clone of the Beretta 92. :rolleyes:

People really need to get past how a gun "feels" in their hand and look at more important things.

C4

JJay03

11-25-12, 08:20

People who are knocking the xd's have you actually had one malfunction due to the grip safety? Thats the main thing I hear people whining about. The internals are not much harder to take apart then a glock. It comes down to which one you shoot better IMO.

RamadiDoorkicker

11-25-12, 08:27

Uneducated (first time pistol buyers) choosing a gun that you bought really doesn't say much (as they simply don't know what they don't know).

My Father bought me a Ruger P85 for my first pistol. I thought it was awesome. Then as an adult, I purchased a Taurus clone of the Beretta 92. :rolleyes:

People really need to get past how a gun "feels" in their hand and look at more important things.

C4
Fair enough. I'll agree with you on that point. However, for beginning shooters, getting a quality gun in their hand and out shooting is the first step. Knowledge will come with experience and then they can look at finding the "Perfect" weapon. All of our preferences are different but you'll never know what they are until you start putting rounds down range. People want to overwhelm them with statistics and debates over this brand or that.

a1fabweld

11-25-12, 09:52

a1fabweld, just so you know (for future reference), Ken Hackathorn is not a fan of the pistol. In regards to the other instructors listed, I don't know if their opinion has changed or not.

C4

Honestly, I've never heard of any of the guys listed in the article. I just throught the review had some good information.

tarkeg

11-25-12, 10:43

Well, if I dont have the grip safety quite perfectly on my 1911 I can still work the slide, not so on the XD's I have used and seen. At the last qual for my department some of the people who carry XD's were having a hell of a time when we were doing certain "wounded stoppage" drills because of that feature.

Can you expound on this? I keep hearing this, but I never hear an explanation of exactly how they can't do a one hand only malfunction drill. Every one handed manipulation I've ever been taught requires a firm grip on the pistol. Are these drills that require no thumb wrapped around the grip?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just can't picture how someone is doing a one handed drill without the grip safety being depressed.

a1fabweld

11-25-12, 10:56

Can you expound on this? I keep hearing this, but I never hear an explanation of exactly how they can't do a one hand only malfunction drill. Every one handed manipulation I've ever been taught requires a firm grip on the pistol. Are these drills that require no thumb wrapped around the grip?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just can't picture how someone is doing a one handed drill without the grip safety being depressed.

C'mon man! You grip the slide between your butt cheeks & rack it with a jumping motion! I thought that was common knowledge? :D

RamadiDoorkicker

11-25-12, 10:57

^ Now that's the best answer this thread has seen! ^

tarkeg

11-25-12, 11:06

C'mon man! You grip the slide between your butt cheeks & rack it with a jumping motion! I thought that was common knowledge? :D

As funny as that answer is, :p that's exactly my point. I'm wondering if some of these "wounded stoppage" type drills use a specific manipulation that would specifically disallow the XD type system to be used. It's like saying, "The AR pattern rifle is unsuitable for combat because if you hold it by the handguard with one hand, you can't disengage the safety". And since I'm always interested in how people train, I would like to learn what exactly these drills are.

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 13:30

Fair enough. I'll agree with you on that point. However, for beginning shooters, getting a quality gun in their hand and out shooting is the first step. Knowledge will come with experience and then they can look at finding the "Perfect" weapon. All of our preferences are different but you'll never know what they are until you start putting rounds down range. People want to overwhelm them with statistics and debates over this brand or that.

This comment kind of pertains to this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=102702

If I was king for a day, people would attend a 3 day pistol class, where they would shoot 3-6 different pistols. They would receive a detailed listing of the positives and negatives for each pistol before selecting one.

I am of the opinion that people simply do not have enough CORRECT info before they buy a gun. This is why we see so many people selling "lightly used" guns (as they bought something based off of poor advice on the errornet or followed their own uneducated opinion).

C4

a1fabweld

11-25-12, 15:31

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 17:08

The other reason people sell their "Lightly used" guns, sometimes brand new guns, is that they get spooked from the internet pro's. We've all seen guys on the forums crying in their beer about the XYZ they purchased but now since the internet operators think their brand sucks, they loose sleep over it & sell it. Then they buy the internet pro approved XYZ brand & tell stories about how the new one is so much better than the old one which they never even shot or ran more than a box of ammo through. Why not go out & shoot the shit out of it & get 1st hand experience on the issue? If you don't like it at that point, then sell it.

I have not seen this. What I have seen is people get some training and then realize what they did not know and switch pistols.

I agree that people make uneducated purchases. Every brand has their following from Glock to S&W to Springfield & Ford to Chevy to Dodge, etc... Some people do have an emotional attachment to their purchases. After all they spent their hard earned money on an item that someone else is calling a POS. Why wouldn't they be offended & try to debate why thier item was of good quality even if they have nothing to back it up?

This does happen all the time (married to their purchase).

I spoke with my CCW instructor recently. He primarily runs XD's & his main pistol is an XD 45 Tactical. He's run tens of thousands of rounds through his XD without a single failure per his report. No offense to anyone here, but I'll take the testimony of a professional that I personally know vs. anyone on the internet that I've never met.

You must have some HSLD CCW instructors around your area. The ones I typically come across shouldn't be allowed to teach people anything.

I personally don't doubt that XD's can run for thousands of rounds. The question I always have is why choose the XD when they aren't a real bargain when compared to other companies that honestly either have a better design, better CS, better after market support or all of the above.

On top of this, we RARELY see XD(M) owners attend shooting schools (to date have seen 2). For whatever reason, it would appear that either XD(M)'s owners don't think they need training or don't intend to use their gun to defend themselves.

C4

a1fabweld

11-25-12, 18:05

I have not seen this. What I have seen is people get some training and then realize what they did not know and switch pistols.

I've seen quite a few people barely make it to the range before posting their stuff for sale because those they take advice from (for whatever reason) told them their stuff was worthless.

This does happen all the time (married to their purchase).

You must have some HSLD CCW instructors around your area. The ones I typically come across shouldn't be allowed to teach people anything.

From what I understand we have some good instructors in the local area. None of them have their own TV shows, but that doesn't mean much to me.

I personally don't doubt that XD's can run for thousands of rounds. The question I always have is why choose the XD when they aren't a real bargain when compared to other companies that honestly either have a better design, better CS, better after market support or all of the above.

I picked up my XD9's for $450 each. Seemed like a pretty good deal at the time although that's not why I bought them.

I believe the design issue is subjective (I'm sure that will ruffle some feathers around here although not intended). They have quite a large following to be of an inferior design.

I own quite a few Springfield rifles & pistols. Fortunately, I have yet to experience even a single malfunction in any of them to warrant needing Springfield's customer service, therefore I can't speak one way or the other on the issue. In regards to CS, my good friend's home burned to the ground a few years back. Among the guns in his safe that burned up were his M1A & XD. The XD was reduced to a plastic pancake & the M1A was a crusty looking barreled action with a pile of ashes under it which used to be the stock. He sent both to Springfield for repair or replacement. They replaced the entire XD & repaired/refinished the M1A to brand new condition for the whopping sum of $200 including shipping for both guns. If that's not outstanding customer service, I don't know what is.

On top of this, we RARELY see XD(M) owners attend shooting schools (to date have seen 2). For whatever reason, it would appear that either XD(M)'s owners don't think they need training or don't intend to use their gun to defend themselves.

C4

I can't speak for other XD owners, but I used my XD exclusively during my class.

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 18:54

I can't speak for other XD owners, but I used my XD exclusively during my class.

I don't know that I would say that it is an inferior design. It just not up to par with guns from HK, Glock, Walther, etc.

The XDM runs in the $550-$600 range. This puts it past the GEN 3 Glock, same as the GEN 4 Glock, $100 more than an M&P and inline with many HK and Walther pistols. This is what I am talking about. I am not sure how anyone chooses this gun over any of the other pistols on the market that are equal or less money.

Being on TV is not what I use either. I look at background, shooting ability, teaching ability, etc. The majority of the best instructors on the planet would not choose the XD(M) as their first choice for a defensive weapon. This is huge clue IMHO.

What training class did you attend with your XD? How many of your classmates were running them as well?

C4

Kokopelli

11-25-12, 19:10

Honestly, it's not like pistols are children.. You can sell or trade them off as you wish.. You can even have a whole bunch of them. After all some people don't like chocolate covered cherries, but they never know until they've tried one out.. Just saying.. Cheers.. Ron

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 19:13

S-1

11-25-12, 19:44

The majority of the best instructors on the planet would not choose the XD(M) as their first choice for a defensive weapon.

C4

While I don't know if it's his "first choice" in a defensive weapon, but I have seen photos here on M4C of Pat McNamara carrying an XDm while teaching a class.

*Personally, I am not a fan of the XD series, but several of my peers seem to be happy with theirs.

Also, I think instructors tend to use what many of their students use. Such as Glocks. I honestly don't see many (only can think of a couple off of the top of my head) recommended or carry M&P's either, but theirs plenty of happy M&P shooters out there.

a1fabweld

11-25-12, 20:02

I don't know that I would say that it is an inferior design. It just not up to par with guns from HK, Glock, Walther, etc.

The XDM runs in the $550-$600 range. This puts it past the GEN 3 Glock, same as the GEN 4 Glock, $100 more than an M&P and inline with many HK and Walther pistols. This is what I am talking about. I am not sure how anyone chooses this gun over any of the other pistols on the market that are equal or less money.

To each their own I guess. Of the XD lineup, I only have experience with the old style XD's which are reasonably priced & proven in my experience to be 100% reliable. Until they prove otherwise, I have no reason to search for a replacement.

Being on TV is not what I use either. I look at background, shooting ability, teaching ability, etc. The majority of the best instructors on the planet would not choose the XD(M) as their first choice for a defensive weapon. This is huge clue IMHO.

Yea, he must be a total rookie if he doesn't have a Glock, HK, M&P, on his side. I guess my time would be better spent watching Magpul videos in front of the TV than taking an actual live fire class from an NRA certified instructor? LMAO!

What training class did you attend with your XD? How many of your classmates were running them as well?

C4

I took a local class from Ron Etchell. I wasn't really paying attention to what other people were shooting, but more focusing on my own shooting & the instructor. My friend that I went with was shooting a Glock 9mm.

I don't understand the obsessive behavior demonstrated by the Glock, M&P, or whatever else crowd to make everyone agree with them & criticize those who dont? So I own XD's & they fit the bill perfectly for me. They've never given me a reason to doubt their design or reliability. I'm very happy with them. Who gives a shit?

The last catasrophic failure I witnessed was a Glock 21 which blew up at the range. The slide blew off the frame, the mag shot out the bottom, & the guy shooting it was bleeding like a stuck pig. He was shooting reloads from his buddy one lane over who had no problems with the same loads in his Sig 220. So what gives? This is the same brand that has a God like following over their reliability right?

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 20:13

While I don't know if it's his "first choice" in a defensive weapon, but I have seen photos here on M4C of Pat McNamara carrying an XDm while teaching a class.

*Personally, I am not a fan of the XD series, but several of my peers seem to be happy with theirs.

Also, I think instructors tend to use what many of their students use. Such as Glocks. I honestly don't see many (only can think of a couple off of the top of my head) recommended or carry M&P's either, but theirs plenty of happy M&P shooters out there.

I don't think it is and is really the only well known guy (with his background) to recommend them in any way. The majority (if not all) of the instructors with his same background have little to no interest in the XD.

Good instructors do try and shoot what the majority of their students run. Most training classes are full of polymer pistols so they aren't going to run a 1911 (and vice versa).

C4

C4IGrant

11-25-12, 20:22

I took a local class from Ron Etchell. I wasn't really paying attention to what other people were shooting, but more focusing on my own shooting & the instructor. My friend that I went with was shooting a Glock 9mm.

Was this just a CCW class? If so, that is not what I mean when I say "attends training."

I don't understand the obsessive behavior demonstrated by the Glock, M&P, or whatever else crowd to make everyone agree with them & criticize those who dont? So I own XD's & they fit the bill perfectly for me. They've never given me a reason to doubt their design or reliability. I'm very happy with them. Who gives a shit?

Agree with? Not sure who is saying that. There are just so many other choices out there, that I (and many others) cannot figure out why anyone chooses this gun. Looking for an informed opinion as to why this gun is selected.

The last catasrophic failure I witnessed was a Glock 21 which blew up at the range. The slide blew off the frame, the mag shot out the bottom, & the guy shooting it was bleeding like a stuck pig. He was shooting reloads from his buddy one lane over who had no problems with the same loads in his Sig 220. So what gives? This is the same brand that has a God like following over their reliability right?

Guns blow up (usually due to a stupid user tricks). Sounds like this Glock 21 did what it was supposed too and protected the shooter.

C4

r1derbike

11-25-12, 22:03

My brother (fellow SA owner) was in a lane next to a guy shooting a Kimber when his hammer broke. My brother couldn't believe it, neither could the Kimber owner.

I own an XD-S because out of all the other CCW pistols I was considering, and shot, none had the features, size, ergonomics, and last but not least, feel of the XD-S. There are always better pistols (except the Kimber named above) out there than the one____(insert brand of choice here) somebody owns, and they cost a lot of money.

Who cares? Really? An owner only has to please himself, given his needs in a firearm. If those choices are good or not, it's a learning experience, as stated somewhere.

After nearly 1K rounds through my XD-S, I still like it, it was the right choice for me, and until another decent single-stack .45acp comes-out that I may try, and prove it is better, I'll continue to like it.

Just shoot-the-hell out of whatever you have...

airman

11-26-12, 08:02

I started this thread to get members opinion,s of the new sa xds single stack 45 acp as a concealed carry gun but so far it has been turned into a debate of the whole sa xd line of handguns. I have no experiance with any other xd platform but did go ahead and purchase the xds for a compact big bore ccw handgun. So far I have around 500 rounds through the gun, mostly my own reloads with few problems and they have all been related to my reloads. Accuracy has been good out to 25 yards which is acceptable for this type firearm. I am satisfied with my decision on this purchase for $500.00 and would suggest anyone looking for a reliable and concealable large bore firearm give the xds a try. Is it perfect, no, but few things in life are. Thanks for letting me vent a little. All be safe and enjoy whatever you choose.

a1fabweld

11-26-12, 09:53

Was this just a CCW class? If so, that is not what I mean when I say "attends training."

Agree with? Not sure who is saying that. There are just so many other choices out there, that I (and many others) cannot figure out why anyone chooses this gun. Looking for an informed opinion as to why this gun is selected.

Guns blow up (usually due to a stupid user tricks). Sounds like this Glock 21 did what it was supposed too and protected the shooter.

C4

Since you continue to discount my reasoning for owning & shooting the XD line, in spite of their proven reliability, I'm going to move on to more productive ways to spend my time. Obviously my reasons are not good enough for you & that's ok. To each their own. This will continue to be a neverending debate. Although I do have to give you props for justifying the way the Glock blew up. That's a good one! Cheers!

C4IGrant

11-26-12, 10:09

Since you continue to discount my reasoning for owning & shooting the XD line, in spite of their proven reliability, I'm going to move on to more productive ways to spend my time. Obviously my reasons are not good enough for you & that's ok. To each their own. This will continue to be a neverending debate. Although I do have to give you props for justifying the way the Glock blew up. That's a good one! Cheers!

XD’s have a nickname in the training world. They are commonly referred to as “Bubba Guns.” The reason is because they are seldom seen at shooting schools (not CCW and basic NRA classes). Right or wrong, it was it is. So start attending pistol training and you can do your part to change this opinion! ;)

When someone puts a double charge into a pistol (and it blows up), the gun (by design) is supposed to blow everything out the mag well (thusly protecting the shooter). ALL GUNS will blow up when someone commits a stupid user trick. What is important is that the gun handles the explosion properly.

C4

a1fabweld

11-26-12, 11:18

XD’s have a nickname in the training world. They are commonly referred to as “Bubba Guns.” The reason is because they are seldom seen at shooting schools (not CCW and basic NRA classes). Right or wrong, it was it is. So start attending pistol training and you can do your part to change this opinion! ;)

When someone puts a double charge into a pistol (and it blows up), the gun (by design) is supposed to blow everything out the mag well (thusly protecting the shooter). ALL GUNS will blow up when someone commits a stupid user trick. What is important is that the gun handles the explosion properly.

C4

Uhh, OK.

proxpilot

12-10-12, 20:18

OP glad you joined the XD-S crew. i really enjoy mine.