View Full Version : CZ 75 for Duty/Defensive use?
I have a CZ 75B SA in 9mm that is currently my EDC. I am not a LEO so the "duty" part of this question doesn't apply to me. The "defensive" part does but I'm still curious about the duty part. I was wondering if any experts out there, especially DocGKR, have an opinion on this platform for EDC...?
I'd say that if it's reliable and you like it rock on.
I'd tell you that in my opinion a CZ is a piece of shit and that you should carry what I carry because I like my gun better than yours.
Seriously though. What are you looking for? CZs are in use all over the world, they should be up to the vigors of civilian CCW here in the states.
I guess what I'm looking for is an opinion on its reliability long term. I know I shoot very well with it, it is quite accurate and has low recoil, fast follow up etc. And I have well over a thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction including HST, Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, WWB and Federal Champion.
I guess what I'm wondering is this: there is a "list" of pistols that DocGKR put out similar to his list of acceptable carry ammunition. The list includes Glocks, M&P's, HK's, Sig's 1911's etc. And does not mention the CZ. I guess I was wondering if there was some specific reason. If anyone is aware of any long term reliability issues or anything of the like... just being picky
Brian Enos Forum would be a good place to check out CZs.
Lots of gamers like 'em and the 75 SA is pretty popular.
Other than broken slide stops every now and then, I've never heard of anything particularly problematic about 'em.
Enos and the CZ Forum.
Many folks have 10s of thousands and again - other than an OCCASIONAL slide stop, perfect. And... they seem to hold their accuracy well. They are very accurate and soft shooting.
I think some have closed in on or over 100K and other than a few minor parts - no problem
Back in '03 they issued bad trigger return springs and I broke quite a few. Since then, not an issue.
the CZ is a good gun and if you shoot best with it and carry it. the only thing you need to do is keeping current on your skills and up keep your gun religiously
I wonder why they are not mentioned more by the experts then. Seems like all you hear about these days are Glocks, M&P's, and Sig's...
pentosinjunkie
08-28-12, 19:08
I have one. Superbly accurate. 100% reliable thus far. Great trigger directly out of the box.
Sight options are limited. Factory finishes are susceptible to wear. It's heavy. It feels like a very 20th-century type firearm on the whole. In terms of finish and small details they do feel a grade cheaper and dated than other steelies such as the 92FS or Sig, but it's superficial. More limited holster options, but easy to find a holster from the big names. Ergos on the whole suit those with thin palms/long fingers the best. I prefer the factory anatomic grips.
In sum, it's a perfectly fine choice. Don't understand why they're passed over by the mainstream gun media. Probably "not made here" or "not used by the Delta Beret SEALS HRT" syndromes...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
A lot of trainers talk about these guns going down in DEFENSIVE/ "Tactical" classes but what they fail to mention is that its user error when they start messing with components internally and dont know what the hell they are doing. also the second biggest problem i see/seen is people bring there competition IPSC guns to a class where it had no business being in the first place.
the CZ stock with a change of sights is fine. you just need to shoot it to smooth out the trigger like any other gun.
By "going down", I assume you mean malfunctioning?
Todd Green's take on the CZ series.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218
Nephrology
08-28-12, 21:12
I view them in kind of the same lens as Browning Hi Powers and 1911s. I've seen 1911s go down all the time but they still have a huge following and, by and large, probably work. If you've tested your particular pistol thoroughly and know what to look for down the road in terms of parts breakages (and how to fix them, too) then you are probably fine. Test as many rounds of your defensive ammo as you can bear to (and then some), and do stay on top of keeping it clean.
I think most people, myself included, benefit from an industrially well designed pistol like a Glock or whatever, as it makes maintaining and identifying/addressing problems very easy (until it's not, like Gen4), but that doesn't mean you can't get the same level of performance out of other platforms. It just requires commitment.
By "going down", I assume you mean malfunctioning?
yes most of the malfunctions occurred from owners performing home trigger jobs and swapping out springs.
Todd Green's take on the CZ series.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218
again he makes to reference to whether the guns were modified or stock
Back in '03 they issued bad trigger return springs and I broke quite a few. Since then, not an issue.
I was one of the lucky ones who had a trigger return spring break. Other than that is was a reliable and accurate pistol. My only complaint was the feed ramp was a little steep for some of the larger mouthed hollow points.
I was the biggest CZ fanboy ever. I even went to the CZ-UB store in Prague. I owned a Shadow, blued 75b, and VZ-58. The Shadow was my duty gun and was even used to get through instructor school. They are scary accurate, but I wouldn't trust it in a duty gun role. Mine failed to lock the slide back ALL the time. Thought it was my grip till I shot with my weak hand only. Same problem. It happened less with 16rd mags. My 75b had a broken fpb lever, which CZ stated I did.
Accurate, ergonomic, fun to shoot-yes
Reliable enough for duty use-IMHO, no
Think of the CZ guns as you would a 1911. When people with no clue start fiddling with them then there's the potential for them not to run reliably. On the other hand, if people know what they're doing and they're willing to put the time into them then you have a reliable, very accurate, very easy to shoot pistol with a great trigger. Sure, parts can break just like any other pistol out there.
It's not hard to find reports of any pistol breaking, so I don't know why some people turn against CZ guns when they have a parts failure. Hell, we've got thread after thread of problems with the most popular pistols on the market, Glocks and M&Ps, and people still buy them, spend money to fix them, replace a bunch of factory parts, struggle with them, send them back and forth to the factory, and continue to recommend them. On the other hand you'll see CZ threads come up occasionally and someone will pop in with "well I had a CZ for 10 years and then I broke X part and I don't trust it any more."
legumeofterror
08-29-12, 09:06
My 75 has proven to be very reliable, kept stock I have not had a single malfuntion. No failures to feed, fire, or extract, no parts breakage, no failures to lock back, nothing.
I have had a single squib, as well as light primer strikes on Tula with a reduced power hammer spring. That lasted 5 rounds before I swaped the spring back to stock at the range and did away with that nonsense.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9-2-000-Round-Challenge&p=66461&viewfull=1#post66461
If they didn't work great they wouldn't have kept making them as long as they have.
misanthropist
08-29-12, 10:12
Todd Green's take on the CZ series.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218
I was in that class (shooting a Glock) and while there were a bunch of CZs that crashed, which did leave me personally with a poor opinion of them, after talking to some of the people involved it sounds as though the majority of problems came from people using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ guns.
We have a guy locally who is a high level IPSC production competitor and his Shadows have tens of thousands of rounds and seem to be performing well.
I shoot Glocks, though.
I was in that class (shooting a Glock) and while there were a bunch of CZs that crashed, which did leave me personally with a poor opinion of them, after talking to some of the people involved it sounds as though the majority of problems came from people using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ guns.
We have a guy locally who is a high level IPSC production competitor and his Shadows have tens of thousands of rounds and seem to be performing well.
I shoot Glocks, though.
Seriously? It is awfully convenient that Todd left that part out. :rolleyes: I've read some other stuff he's written about CZs and it seems he has some sort of vendetta against them.
I was in that class (shooting a Glock) and while there were a bunch of CZs that crashed, which did leave me personally with a poor opinion of them, after talking to some of the people involved it sounds as though the majority of problems came from people using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ guns.
We have a guy locally who is a high level IPSC production competitor and his Shadows have tens of thousands of rounds and seem to be performing well.
I shoot Glocks, though.
CZ or MecGar mags ONLY!!! although i have used SIG mags in my CZ with success :secret:
I was in that class (shooting a Glock) and while there were a bunch of CZs that crashed, which did leave me personally with a poor opinion of them, after talking to some of the people involved it sounds as though the majority of problems came from people using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ guns.
We have a guy locally who is a high level IPSC production competitor and his Shadows have tens of thousands of rounds and seem to be performing well.
I shoot Glocks, though.
This would have been helpful information to include in that article. Sounds like he does have something against the brand. I heard elsewhere that this guy has something against every brand that isn't Glock or HK
I would still like to hear from one of the resident experts here...
You won't find a single "big name" tactical firearms instructor who would put the CZ in their top-10 recommended handguns list (it probably wouldn't make the top-20).
You won't find a single "big name" tactical firearms instructor who would put the CZ in their top-10 recommended handguns list (it probably wouldn't make the top-20).
actually not so true, go train with Mike Pannone. also LAV does seem to mind CZ's from what i know. Jason Falla kinda sees the BHP and CZ as being in the same boat but dont quote me on that ask him.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96670&highlight=CZ
misanthropist
08-29-12, 14:55
This would have been helpful information to include in that article. Sounds like he does have something against the brand. I heard elsewhere that this guy has something against every brand that isn't Glock or HK
He may not have known. I did not know until a couple of months later myself.
The IPSC guy I mentioned, Rob Engh, was there...he actually had issues with his Shadow that were not mag related. IIRC he had broken his ejector in half. The gun still ran but not as well as you'd like, of course...he swapped the part on day 2 and then it was fine.
I don't know about Todd having anything against brands other than HK and Glock. He didn't really like Glocks that much when I took the class, although he didn't claim they were unreliable or anything.
Hackathorn was another guy I asked about the CZ...he described them as a "low bid third world option". Actually he thought the Chinese built better clones than the original, if I recall.
But they do dominate in competition circles around here, and most of the guys I know that shoot them would not be particularly receptive to competing with guns that don't work.
My take is that they seem to run, but they're no Gen 3 G17 as far as reliability or durability is concerned. I would not take one into extreme conditions but frankly if you maintain it and keep it clean and your probable working environment for it is an alley in Amarillo, not a beach in Beirut, I don't know, I'd probably be fine with it.
He may not have known. I did not know until a couple of months later myself.
The IPSC guy I mentioned, Rob Engh, was there...he actually had issues with his Shadow that were not mag related. IIRC he had broken his ejector in half. The gun still ran but not as well as you'd like, of course...he swapped the part on day 2 and then it was fine.
I don't know about Todd having anything against brands other than HK and Glock. He didn't really like Glocks that much when I took the class, although he didn't claim they were unreliable or anything.
Hackathorn was another guy I asked about the CZ...he described them as a "low bid third world option". Actually he thought the Chinese built better clones than the original, if I recall.
But they do dominate in competition circles around here, and most of the guys I know that shoot them would not be particularly receptive to competing with guns that don't work.
My take is that they seem to run, but they're no Gen 3 G17 as far as reliability or durability is concerned. I would not take one into extreme conditions but frankly if you maintain it and keep it clean and your probable working environment for it is an alley in Amarillo, not a beach in Beirut, I don't know, I'd probably be fine with it.
I swear some "tactical Timmies" must think USPSA (or IPSC outside the USA) matches are just a bunch of gamers struggling with guns that barely run. I'd be confident in saying anyone even semi-serious about "gaming" runs their pistol a lot harder than someone who takes a couple of classes a year and sits around thinking about what people on the internet say about their pistol choice. As you pointed out, the guys who play gun games don't suffer shitty gear, and anything that fails is either fixed or replaced with a different gun. The fact that among these guys the CZ guns are very popular isn't for nothing.
LAV does seem to mind CZ's from what i know. Jason Falla kinda sees the BHP and CZ as being in the same boat
"Doesn't seem to mind" and "being in the same boat as a BHP"... those are some ringing endorsements.
:suicide:
"Doesn't seem to mind" and "being in the same boat as a BHP"... those are some ringing endorsements.
:suicide:
LAV likes the BHP and likes the original CZ 75 SA you can ask him to confirm that.
Falla on the other hand from what he has explained doesnt like the BHP even though he had to use in the SAS. History tells his that the CZ75 is considered a clone of the BHP but i personally dont agree because the trigger mechanism is different and the inverse slide/frame configuration.
after talking to some of the people involved it sounds as though the majority of problems came from people using Tanfoglio mags in their CZ guns.
Funny thing. Over here competition shooters (IPSC) are often using CZ mags as way to make their small frame Tanfoglios to work. Only mags that I seen giving more problems than Tanfoglio ones are factory STI mags. But we do not have Promag here ;)
BTT CZ75 is fit for duty/defensive use if one thing is remember. This is not modern design and technology. This is '70s standard, like classical SIGs, HK P7, etc. They are designed for technologies and materials and requirements of those times. This mean those things do break parts, needs maintenance and sometime have stoppages "just because". For people looking for something that is closer to todays standards CZ has P-07 Duty with Omega trigger (simpler trigger system is more durable).
misanthropist
08-29-12, 17:37
Funny thing. Over here competition shooters (IPSC) are often using CZ mags as way to make their small frame Tanfoglios to work. Only mags that I seen giving more problems than Tanfoglio ones are factory STI mags. But we do not have Promag here ;)
BTT CZ75 is fit for duty/defensive use if one thing is remember. This is not modern design and technology. This is '70s standard, like classical SIGs, HK P7, etc. They are designed for technologies and materials and requirements of those times. This mean those things do break parts, needs maintenance and sometime have stoppages "just because". For people looking for something that is closer to todays standards CZ has P-07 Duty with Omega trigger (simpler trigger system is more durable).
I want to say that the reason guys here were using Tanfoglio mags was that they were available, and there was a CZ mag shortage...I can't remember if that was the exact reason but I know the use of Tanfoglio mags had some technical reason. It wasn't because the shooters thought highly of Tanfoglio mags, anyway. At least nobody I talked to was a big fan of their stuff.
Not after the course, at least.
An Undocumented Worker
08-29-12, 22:23
I've got 3 CZ pistols, PCR, 75b Stainless, and 75b SA. The PCR and the Stainless, have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 rounds each through them. The PCR had a couple of failures to go into battery when shooting a bad batch of remington UMC that was improperly crimped and the bullets were setting back a bunch when chambering a round. That was over 2,000 rounds ago on that pistol.
The Stainless has had no malfunctions. Both pistols have had their recoil springs replaced at around 2500 rounds with springs from CZ-USA. The replacement PCR recoil spring was identical to the factory spring. The replacement spring for the Stainless was made slightly differently from the factory spring and has not taken a set like the original spring did.
Both the Stainless and PCR get CCW'd, while the stainless is heavier it is slightly thinner. Both have seen minimal maintenance over the last year and are lubed with Froglube. Even with the hot weather and plenty of sweat, there have been no indications of any corrosion on either.
All mags have come from CZ-USA, either with the pistols or from their webstore. (they occasionally run sales on mags)
The short and simple is, if you are comfortable with the 75b platform of CZ's and are proficient with them, I would not hesitate to use them in a defensive role so long as you care for them properly (regular recoil spring relpacement when they get weak, though they may be using a more fatigue resistant spring at this point. And proper cleaning and lubrication)
And leave any trigger work to someone who knows what they are doing.(you can do the work yourself but it requires patience and research, also CZCustom is a good source for work or parts)
black22rifle
08-29-12, 23:53
I guess what I'm looking for is an opinion on its reliability long term. I know I shoot very well with it, it is quite accurate and has low recoil, fast follow up etc. And I have well over a thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction including HST, Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, WWB and Federal Champion.
I guess what I'm wondering is this: there is a "list" of pistols that DocGKR put out similar to his list of acceptable carry ammunition. The list includes Glocks, M&P's, HK's, Sig's 1911's etc. And does not mention the CZ. I guess I was wondering if there was some specific reason. If anyone is aware of any long term reliability issues or anything of the like... just being picky
where is the list?
where is the list?
Here: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
It's the second post. It's not a straight list like the one he made for ammo selection, more of a discussion but definitely recommends some brands and models while discouraging others.
BTT CZ75 is fit for duty/defensive use if one thing is remember. This is not modern design and technology. This is '70s standard, like classical SIGs, HK P7, etc. They are designed for technologies and materials and requirements of those times. This mean those things do break parts, needs maintenance and sometime have stoppages "just because". For people looking for something that is closer to todays standards CZ has P-07 Duty with Omega trigger (simpler trigger system is more durable).
Ummm...the G17 was designed in 1979
Ummm...the G17 was designed in 1979
HK P9 in 1965. And your point is?
HK P9 in 1965. And your point is?
You stated that the CZ 75 was older technology like from the 70's where as Glocks were more modern. I was simply pointing out that the G17 was only designed a few years after the CZ 75
You won't find a single "big name" tactical firearms instructor who would put the CZ in their top-10 recommended handguns list (it probably wouldn't make the top-20).
Mike Pannone recommended to me a CZ Shadow, which he said is his favorite 9mm
I've run about ~8K though a 75 Shadow SA I bought from the Custom shop.
No failures so far. I can't say the same for my Glocks through similar round counts fresh out of the box. Soft shooting and accurate also.
Dang heavy to carry though. I carry a Glock.
You stated that the CZ 75 was older technology like from the 70's where as Glocks were more modern. I was simply pointing out that the G17 was only designed a few years after the CZ 75
It was. CZ75 was designed before Mr. Glock (actually some people he hired to do so) decided to put together some ideas from other pistols (for eg. polymer frame from HK P9) and came with "gamechanger" (just like Apple with iPhone). Actually it took several years for market to realize how much Glock changes things (about 30 years for some competitors). This does not change that CZ was designed within technology and requirements that were considered as standard for '70s, '80s and even '90s (refer to M9 for example).
My point is that if one realize that when CZ75 was designed and to what standards, then he must accept that it requires higher level of care and maintenance than Glock or polymer HK. Level of care and maintenance that is standard to metal frame SIGs, HK P7, M9, BHP, etc. It just is not as demanding as 1911 is, but while JMB was a genius, people learned something about pistol design since '11.
It was. CZ75 was designed before Mr. Glock (actually some people he hired to do so) decided to put together some ideas from other pistols (for eg. polymer frame from HK P9) and came with "gamechanger" (just like Apple with iPhone). Actually it took several years for market to realize how much Glock changes things (about 30 years for some competitors). This does not change that CZ was designed within technology and requirements that were considered as standard for '70s, '80s and even '90s (refer to M9 for example).
My point is that if one realize that when CZ75 was designed and to what standards, then he must accept that it requires higher level of care and maintenance than Glock or polymer HK. Level of care and maintenance that is standard to metal frame SIGs, HK P7, M9, BHP, etc. It just is not as demanding as 1911 is, but while JMB was a genius, people learned something about pistol design since '11.
I think your history is off goto Vickers for a history lesson on CZ
I think your history is off goto Vickers for a history lesson on CZ
I know CZ history well enough to know when first prototype was made and when production started. Plus some other facts as well (like what earlier designs of Koucky brothers influenced it). Thank you very much for your concern.
The CZ is fine for concealed carry if you keep it well lubed. I have had less problems with them (I currently have 3) than either my Glock or the M&P for my personal experience, but that is just my luck of the draw. I ended up selling both the Glock and M&P and staying with the CZ. Others have no problems with Glocks of M&Ps.
One of the reason they are used heavily in IPSC and USPSA is they are reliable. Remember there is no alibi is these games and any malfunction will count against you.
I like CZ pistols (though I am down to just one 85 Combat, I sold my previous CZ's because I switched to the M&P for carry). I'm not a basher and don't think they are inherently unreliable or an accident waiting to happen. They actually have a solid track record of service use, but outside the US as someone else said.
That said, in 2012 and with the choices we have available, I would not personally CCW a CZ. Here are some drawbacks of a CZ-75 family pistol in my perspective:
* Size and weight
* DA/SA can be a pain in a carry pistol. You could avoid this issue by carrying a CZ-75 cocked and locked, if you have the traditional safety model.
* Minimal options for sights. A lot of US sight makes just don't provide the options for CZ's that you get for Glock, S&W, H&K, etc.
* No light rail (if you need one).
* CZ has more parts and is more complex to maintain. Ever replaced a broken CZ trigger spring? Not the hardest thing I've ever done, but not the easiest either. See discussion here (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=29352.0). And if you don't stake the pin properly when you put it back in, there's some risk of it walking back out later. Most folks can learn to maintain a CZ and strip it down to the last pin and spring, but there's more to it than maintaining a Glock or an M&P, for instance. I'd even say it's more involved than detail-stripping a 1911.
None of the above is a total deal-breaker, but when you put it together and then compare the other options you have, I found that my CZ's were not the top choice for a carry gun. If you do decide to carry one, I'd check the CZ forums and get the latest advice from the experts (like Angus Hobdell, Matt Mink) on the recommended maintenance/replacement schedule.
All I know is both of my CZs were ****ed up from the factory. My rifle had a burr on the sear that caused issues and the 75 Compact had a grip screw crossthreaded from the factory that promptly snapped the head off when I went to replace the grips.
Either I have horrible luck or the CZ factory has some QC issues...
I wouldn't say CZs are horrible choices for serious use, but I'd prefer something else myself. I got rid of the CZ pistol (and some other things) and got an M&P that I've been very pleased with. The CZ was also pretty darn heavy, especially with a full magazine of ammunition.
I have a CZ75b. It is 100% reliable. None of my 1911s or BHPs have the same record. It is a steel full size 9mm. That is a lot of weight. But it is my bedside gun, and is accurate. The accuracy probably results from tighter tolerances. Knowing you have to keep it clean, well cry me a river. No, it is not a Sig. But it was only $300 new at the time. A hell of a deal. And steel is thinner than aluminum alloy, for the same strength.
black22rifle
09-01-12, 23:58
I like CZ pistols (though I am down to just one 85 Combat, I sold my previous CZ's because I switched to the M&P for carry). I'm not a basher and don't think they are inherently unreliable or an accident waiting to happen. They actually have a solid track record of service use, but outside the US as someone else said.
That said, in 2012 and with the choices we have available, I would not personally CCW a CZ. Here are some drawbacks of a CZ-75 family pistol in my perspective:
* Size and weight
* DA/SA can be a pain in a carry pistol. You could avoid this issue by carrying a CZ-75 cocked and locked, if you have the traditional safety model.
* Minimal options for sights. A lot of US sight makes just don't provide the options for CZ's that you get for Glock, S&W, H&K, etc.
* No light rail (if you need one).
* CZ has more parts and is more complex to maintain. Ever replaced a broken CZ trigger spring? Not the hardest thing I've ever done, but not the easiest either. See discussion here (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=29352.0). And if you don't stake the pin properly when you put it back in, there's some risk of it walking back out later. Most folks can learn to maintain a CZ and strip it down to the last pin and spring, but there's more to it than maintaining a Glock or an M&P, for instance. I'd even say it's more involved than detail-stripping a 1911.
None of the above is a total deal-breaker, but when you put it together and then compare the other options you have, I found that my CZ's were not the top choice for a carry gun. If you do decide to carry one, I'd check the CZ forums and get the latest advice from the experts (like Angus Hobdell, Matt Mink) on the recommended maintenance/replacement schedule.
most people who carry cz's dont keep them stock. the DA/SA is a pain in the ass factory but with a 13# main spring the trigger is sweet. the stock one is 20#. the new p-01 has a light rail and is lighter than the steel version because it is aluminum alloy. the trigger spring is known for breaking and an upgraded spring and non staked pin are cheap. if you have the intention of carrying a CZ i suggest the p-01.
I've had a couple cz's, the first I don't remember shooting much. the second was a compact, what a turd, it wouldn't cycle, failures to feed and extract.I thought I was going to be stuck with it until the original owner tracked me down through a local message board and said how much he liked it and would I trade him a gen 2 17 for it?I won't own another one.
pentosinjunkie
09-09-12, 02:03
I've had a couple cz's, the first I don't remember shooting much. the second was a compact, what a turd, it wouldn't cycle, failures to feed and extract.I thought I was going to be stuck with it until the original owner tracked me down through a local message board and said how much he liked it and would I trade him a gen 2 17 for it?I won't own another one.
That's unfortunate. My 75B has been 100%; zero failures of any kind, probably between 1-1.5k rounds.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
dwhitehorne
09-09-12, 16:18
I can honestly say, I've never had a malfunction with a full sized 9mm 75B. Keep it well lubed, change the mag springs and recoil spring every few thousand rounds and mine have been fine. I've had three different 40 compacts that couldn't get through a 50 round box without a stoppage. CZ's seem like they were made for my hand although I don't care for the decockers shooting thumbs forward. David
My Compact has been flawless. There is NO PLAY in the slide/frame fit. It is a one hole gun. I trust it very well - its just heavy - although its about the same as a full size HiPower which isn't bad. Recoil is quite tame.
I've really never heard of a CZ that could/was not fixed with a minor tweak. Change the extractor spring - that almost is ALWAYS the problem. In a 40, a very few had 9mm slide stops which made them misfeed as the ammo hit the SS. CZ simply would send the right stop, and viola - fixed. The feed ramps almost always had plenty of machine marks, but mostly it did not make a difference.
Think I'm gonna give CZ another chance as a duty gun. I just can't get used to Glock, M&P, etc.. I just wish more people worked on them.
Think I'm gonna give CZ another chance as a duty gun. I just can't get used to Glock, M&P, etc.. I just wish more people worked on them.
You can get an armorer's manual for the P01 from CZ-USA. This should work for any decocker model.
An Undocumented Worker
09-12-12, 23:10
Think I'm gonna give CZ another chance as a duty gun. I just can't get used to Glock, M&P, etc.. I just wish more people worked on them.
Lots of good info can be found on http://czforumsite.info
There are some threads in the home gunsmithing forum there that break down the mechanics and timing of the trigger mechanism very well.
Though to be honest, if this is a duty gun keep the trigger mechanism stock, as in factory format there are large saftey margins in the timing of all of the mechanisms. Improving the trigger requires making all of these margins smaller.
An extrapower extractor spring may be a usefull addition, though the spring may require fitting as the ones I recieved from wolff were too long out of the box and required grinding the ends down to prevent the coils from binding.
In short, doing any work on them requires research, and thought. The same goes for choosing a smith to work on one.
I have several CZ's of various flavors, but never carried one until recently. I had CZ Custom build me this Pro-Tek 1 and do plan on it being one of my primary carry pieces. All of my 75's have been smooth, reliable, and accurate and I fully expect this one to be the same. It is a work of art and a pleasure to handle....these are just cell phone shots but you get the idea.
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek1.jpg
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek2.jpg
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek3.jpg
An Undocumented Worker
09-19-12, 20:33
I have several CZ's of various flavors, but never carried one until recently. I had CZ Custom build me this Pro-Tek 1 and do plan on it being one of my primary carry pieces. All of my 75's have been smooth, reliable, and accurate and I fully expect this one to be the same. It is a work of art and a pleasure to handle....these are just cell phone shots but you get the idea.
I got to handle one of those at Shot, they are seriously bad ass. Their attention to detail on those is amazing, and alot of it can't be seen in photos.
They really are incredible. My wife and I have been comparing it to her P-01, and there isn't a surface left untouched on the Pro-Tek. Every square inch has been massaged and radiused. Lots of handwork as well as machine work goes into them. I'd bet a lot of owners aren't even aware of everything that's been done...took me a while to find all the little touches.
My sample has a wonderful single action pull of 3.5 lbs and the DA is about 7 1/4 lbs.
The down side to this....now my wife wants one too. She is absolutely in love with it, wants to sell her P-01 and her Shadow Target and get the Pro-Tek I. Sheesh...
But with that nasty decocker thing, I would not take it...:D
But with that nasty decocker thing, I would not take it...:D
Same here. Very nicely executed custom P-01, but I personally wouldn't prefer the old DA/SA operating system with a decocker.
It's actually a modded PCR, but I get what you're saying.
I too wish they would make a DA/SA alloy framed model with safety, I think they're missing out. I'd pick one up just to show my support.
Having said that, I'm not sure if I'd pick that over the decocker model for carry as I intend to run hammer down anyway....and the thinned decocker lever does not hinder my normal thumbs up grip at all.
Love the CZ's though....
I have several CZ's of various flavors, but never carried one until recently. I had CZ Custom build me this Pro-Tek 1 and do plan on it being one of my primary carry pieces. All of my 75's have been smooth, reliable, and accurate and I fully expect this one to be the same. It is a work of art and a pleasure to handle....these are just cell phone shots but you get the idea.
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek1.jpg
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek2.jpg
http://highxj.home.bresnan.net/protek3.jpg
any update on how its working for you?I've been lusting after one of these for a while.I said I wouldn't own another cz earlier let me change that I wouldn't own another cz 40 compact.
I can honestly say, I've never had a malfunction with a full sized 9mm 75B. Keep it well lubed, change the mag springs and recoil spring every few thousand rounds and mine have been fine. I've had three different 40 compacts that couldn't get through a 50 round box without a stoppage. CZ's seem like they were made for my hand although I don't care for the decockers shooting thumbs forward. David
hey, didn't you trade me for one of those 40c's?
cdunn, I haven't shot the bejeesus out of it yet, maybe 600 rounds. But it has been perfect so far with a wide variety of defense loadings.
Accuracy, unfortunately, is not quite as good as I had hoped it would be and a bit behind my P-01. It's probably averaging close to 3" for 5 shots at 25 yards with most stuff. Certainly good enough, but not spectacular like many CZ's do. Luck of the draw...
Have a 75 Compact I snagged used for a deal last fall. Impressive accuracy, reliable. I just tore it down, cleaned it up, it eats 124gr. like nobodies business-one hole.
Size-wise it is comparable to the G19, but it's weight is the downside for carry. I would not carry one on duty only for the weight issue.
yeah the ones I had were heavy, if I got another it would be a pcr or pcr based
I've had about 7 CZs over the last 10 years. Still have 3. Two I bought used with total confidence. Cz puts out pistols with excellent precision with barrel slide fit, and the slide inside he frame aids considerably in getting the hands high on a hammer fired gun.
Currently they (CZ-UB) are being brain dead not to offer the shadow, p01/pcr and other lightweight guns with a manual safety or omega system. The manual safety model is quite adequate in std configuration. But, the omega has promise with a more consistent and reliably crisp break. Da/sa just stinks.
But cz-ub is still trapped in a different mindset, and selling surplus here is the standard.
A cz will run reliably and WILL be quite accurate. Replace the extractor, lube once in a while and fagetaboutit.
Sure the trigger is not as simple as a bhp, but I just don't hear about them going down with triggers.
I would like to see more reports on hard use of the p07.
No problems through 2 CZ 75's and my new P01. CZ Custom and Cajun Gun Works helped make the P01 my EDC. One of my co workers just went through a course at front sight with his SP01 and he had no problems whatsoever. Apparently someone thinks highly of them check out the prices they are selling for off gun broker and guns America.
I think it was 2003 when I picked up lightly used Pre-B 75 cheap with several hi-cap mags! It was made in '91. I had dovetail sights installed and then heard about this Angus Hobdell guy who was working on CZ's. He converted mine to SA only whereupon it became my competition only pistol. I wasn't good about keeping round counts back then but my bullet orders would seem to indicate I ran about 10,000/year for 2-3 years. No failures, no broken parts except for FO rod in the front sight and several worn out mag tubes. Mine likes factory springs and lots of lube. It feeds Zero brand HP's just fine. CZ's like mid-weight bullets best.
I carry something more modern but my CZ has been durable and reliable.
I've owned a CZ-75B for the past 9 years.
No complaints at all.
The only malfunctions it has had where from a bad batch of reloads that where not hot enough to cycle the slide
And the HEAVY all steel construction soaked up recoil.
It isn't something I would want to carry. But as a nightstand/house/car gun it is an excellent choice. The Ergonomics are also excellent.
Is there a consensus on the Omega trigger yet? I had a P-01 for the longest time (that I highly regret selling), and just picked up a vanilla CZ-75B. I've fondled enough of the P-07s that they just don't seem QUITE as good as their steel-frame counterparts.
Also, here in Colorado the Tristar C-100s are starting to flood the market. Don't know if anyone else has shot those but the machining and finish on them feel quite good but GOD that DA trigger pull sucks.
Gary1911A1
03-23-13, 04:47
Is there a consensus on the Omega trigger yet? I had a P-01 for the longest time (that I highly regret selling), and just picked up a vanilla CZ-75B. I've fondled enough of the P-07s that they just don't seem QUITE as good as their steel-frame counterparts.
Also, here in Colorado the Tristar C-100s are starting to flood the market. Don't know if anyone else has shot those but the machining and finish on them feel quite good but GOD that DA trigger pull sucks.
If you think the DA trigger on the Tristar sucks I'd say you will likely find the DA on the Omega sucks too. Worse DA I have ever felt on a CZ 75 was on an Omega. Maybe being built to do two things means not doing either well?
KiloSierra
03-25-13, 01:28
I picked up a P-07 last summer. Good trigger for a box stock service pistol, excellent for it's price range. Much better then the stock trigger on the SP-01 Tactical I picked up a few months later.
I handled ONE Canik (some are Tristar) gun and its SA trigger BLOWS the average CZ trigger away. Admittedly the DA was heavy, but smooth. A 15-17 LB mainspring would benefit it.
Anyone have thoughts on the LIGHTWEIGHT Canik frames?
(believe me, if CZ imported a PROPER P01, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. But I hate decockers).
I handled ONE Canik (some are Tristar) gun and its SA trigger BLOWS the average CZ trigger away. Admittedly the DA was heavy, but smooth. A 15-17 LB mainspring would benefit it.
Anyone have thoughts on the LIGHTWEIGHT Canik frames?
(believe me, if CZ imported a PROPER P01, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. But I hate decockers).
You talking about something like this?
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/79-pistols-cz/PC/CZ_75_OMPACT_SHADOW_LINE.aspx
http://www.czub.cz/zbrojovka/czech-guns/CZ_75_OMPACT_SHADOW_LINE.png
They really are incredible. My wife and I have been comparing it to her P-01, and there isn't a surface left untouched on the Pro-Tek. Every square inch has been massaged and radiused. Lots of handwork as well as machine work goes into them. I'd bet a lot of owners aren't even aware of everything that's been done...took me a while to find all the little touches.
My sample has a wonderful single action pull of 3.5 lbs and the DA is about 7 1/4 lbs.
The down side to this....now my wife wants one too. She is absolutely in love with it, wants to sell her P-01 and her Shadow Target and get the Pro-Tek I. Sheesh... I'm planning to do the same to my P01 if the finish ever starts to wear. Will have controlled chaos arms cerrocote it when the time comes. I have replaced a bunch of parts with CGW custom parts and am most impressed. My SA pull on my trigger pull gauge is right at 3lbs and DA is at 7 both less than promised and smooth as silk. Quality on this pistol especially the finish is head and shoulders above what my 1986 pre B was reliability is the same, perfect. Have her send the P01 to CZ Custom they will do the full Pro Tek package on customer owned guns.
:happy:
You talking about something like this?
http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/79-pistols-cz/PC/CZ_75_OMPACT_SHADOW_LINE.aspx
http://www.czub.cz/zbrojovka/czech-guns/CZ_75_OMPACT_SHADOW_LINE.png
Seriously need this pistol.
Gutshot John
03-28-13, 08:58
I picked up a P-07 last summer. Good trigger for a box stock service pistol, excellent for it's price range.
I completely agree. Picked up a P-07 late summer, pretty much on a lark since it was dead cheap and it looked...well different.
I'm typically a M&P/Glock person but the P-07 impressed me. Best out of box DA trigger I've ever felt. The SA trigger was a little sloopy with too much take up, so it was easy to double-clutch, but it was manageable. Accuracy was dead-nuts on, like a freaking laser beam. :) It was at least as accurate as my old PPQ.
Only other issue I noticed was that one mag didn't always drop free. After a bit of experimenting, I noticed it was only when I was holding the gun in my left hand that it was an issue. My thinking was that as a lefty, using the trigger finger to drop the mag was torquing the frame slightly.
My only other concern with the gun was the transition from a striker fired, to hammer/safety fired gun requires a huge readjustment in your manual of arms. I was constantly catching myself forgetting to put the safety on, so I reverted back to a decocker (some people disagree with decockers, but in this case I see it's virtues. The P-07 decocker is much easier to reach than on the 75 series.
Compared to a typical poly gun it is much wider/fatter. I would also have liked interchangeable grips. All in all though these are small trade offs.
I'm not a fanboy, and I'm still an M&P/Glock shooter, but the P-07 is an impressive firearm. CZ put a lot of thought into it.
:happy:
Seriously need this pistol.
YES. It is the same weight as a P07, can take 16 round mags (which are cheaper), and is more slender and easier to use for concealment. It is a proven design. But... CZ USA is just a shipper, and sells whatever CZUB decides they want to ship. Its haphazard.
YES. It is the same weight as a P07, can take 16 round mags (which are cheaper), and is more slender and easier to use for concealment. It is a proven design. But... CZ USA is just a shipper, and sells whatever CZUB decides they want to ship. Its haphazard.
I use the 16 rounders in my P01 by using the floorplate for the SP01 mags it gets rid of the gap Kinda like a grip expension but looks a lot better.
But the fact is that CZ USA just won't sell a lightweight framed gun with their manual safety (other than the P07, which is a different animal).
johnnyrebel87
09-27-13, 11:01
I handled ONE Canik (some are Tristar) gun and its SA trigger BLOWS the average CZ trigger away. Admittedly the DA was heavy, but smooth. A 15-17 LB mainspring would benefit it.
Anyone have thoughts on the LIGHTWEIGHT Canik frames?
(believe me, if CZ imported a PROPER P01, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. But I hate decockers).
I have 3 caniks that will soon be in my posession. They will get the Cajun gun works hammer and sear and springs. Lightweight frame full size and compact with manual safeties.....yes please. I have 2 t-120s and a c-100 coming. And have another c100 or two planned for the future. I was that impressed by handling them. With the CGW parts now available, better machining than CZ, and price......pretty awesome deal.
(Canik) I got a compact. Long story - barrel is not formed right as they misapply the mandrel and the rifling does not extend all the way back to the chamber. Canik will not fix it, and yes, I sent it in. Also, the trigger spring broke, and their pin sizes are NON-STANDARD to the CZ, so getting a roll pin to work is a headache. I have some more "fixing' to do to get mine to run right. But... the concept is good, as CZ refuses to make a stock pistol in a AL frame with manual safety.
DanjojoUSMC
09-27-13, 12:41
Canik pistols give me an odd feeling without a website popping up for them with a little google search. What kind of documentation or info comes with them from the factory? Who is the importer?
My former commander bought a CZ 75 for one of his pistols and he liked it better than the issued Hi Power that we had or even the Glocks we went to later on.
This guy was a member of the Entebee raid and a founding member of the Hostage Rescue unit of Israel. We are both retired and he still carries his CZ every day and has been in a few shootings with it through the years.
He loves it.
Where I am more of a Glock or Hi Power guy.
BoringGuy45
09-27-13, 23:18
I've always liked CZ, though they've been hard to find lately. The P01 is one of the most comfortable pistols I've ever held.
I like CZ pistols. I've been using them since 1980. Back then it was the go to pistol in South America, the Middle East and Africa, where they are still in use as a duty weapon. I currently have just four, an early short rail CZ 75, A Fankonia Jagger CZ 75, CZ 85 and my favorite, an aluminum framed CZ 75 compact which I carry every now an then. Been thinking sending the compact to the smith for a set of Novaks. These days I mostly carry a Glock 19 or 22 for EDC.
http://i42.tinypic.com/wqvf3d.jpg
Ive had a 75B for 3 or 4 years. Its gone through 1 recoil spring and several cases of 9mm S&B without a problem. Its been reliable and is very accurate. Ive been happy with mine, but in full disclosure it is not my duty or carry gun.
beschatten
09-30-13, 07:09
My former commander bought a CZ 75 for one of his pistols and he liked it better than the issued Hi Power that we had or even the Glocks we went to later on.
This guy was a member of the Entebee raid and a founding member of the Hostage Rescue unit of Israel. We are both retired and he still carries his CZ every day and has been in a few shootings with it through the years.
He loves it.
Where I am more of a Glock or Hi Power guy.
Are you speaking of Yamam?
Yes he was a foundering member under Asaf Hefiz
My Canik 55 Tristar compact is nicely machined, smooth, and a pleasure to shoot.
youreacrab
10-01-13, 12:52
Don't worry if its not the "in" gun. The CZ is good to go and has been since 1975. Browning Hi Power would be another excellent choice, a bit lighter, slimmer, and smaller.
beschatten
10-01-13, 15:11
Yes he was a foundering member under Asaf Hefiz
Wow, that's impressive. They are a very talented unit.
I carried my Hi Power today for old time sake. It is not a CZ but it is very close.
I didn't feel under armed at any point in time.
johnnyrebel87
10-02-13, 10:23
(Canik) I got a compact. Long story - barrel is not formed right as they misapply the mandrel and the rifling does not extend all the way back to the chamber. Canik will not fix it, and yes, I sent it in. Also, the trigger spring broke, and their pin sizes are NON-STANDARD to the CZ, so getting a roll pin to work is a headache. I have some more "fixing' to do to get mine to run right. But... the concept is good, as CZ refuses to make a stock pistol in a AL frame with manual safety.
That's a bummer. I planned on getting the CGW pins and trigger stuff anyways. I got lifetime warranties on mine just in case, because tristar doesnt sound like the greatest warranties or customer service.
johnnyrebel87
10-02-13, 16:34
(Canik) I got a compact. Long story - barrel is not formed right as they misapply the mandrel and the rifling does not extend all the way back to the chamber. Canik will not fix it, and yes, I sent it in. Also, the trigger spring broke, and their pin sizes are NON-STANDARD to the CZ, so getting a roll pin to work is a headache. I have some more "fixing' to do to get mine to run right. But... the concept is good, as CZ refuses to make a stock pistol in a AL frame with manual safety.
Ya know....thats reeeeeeally bullshit that they won't fix it. What does the warranty even cover if they don't fix something like that. We need to call tristar out on that.
For them it "meets spec." They simply sent it back with no note, nada. This is an issue with these guns, as some others have demonstrated. Plus you handle shipping to them . My biggest disappointment is the non standard trigger pin size, etc. It's a pain to deal with an otherwise easy thing in replacing the trigger spring.
I've been carrying a 75D PCR (lightweight alloy framed, compact) since I bought it in 2000. It is not heavy, nor is it cumbersome to carry, no more than a G19. I also have the all steel 75B which is heavier, but with a decent belt and holster not a problem to carry either. I've had the 75B longer than the PCR, but both have been accurate, reliable, with no parts breakages, and I shoot both regularly.
A plus with CZ pistols is the Kadet Kit .22LR conversion unit. While a bit pricey, they are excellent, and mine practically lives on the 75B, but it will work on all modern 75 platform, even the compacts.
CZ has been focusing more on polymer if that's your thing with the P-07, and P-09 so again these both offer weight reductions over their all steel offerings.
The Canik 55 website states that this company is a major supplier to the Turkish military among others with the implication that their pistols are Nato spec. I remain impressed with my Tristar compact yet I don't plan to ditch my Glocks. My opinion is that it far exceeds Taurus, Kel Tec, Ruger, or Bersa 9mms and would serve nicely as a reliable sock drawer pistol, range gun, car or truck gun, or woods companion.
I have no doubt that my Canik may prove reliable. I'm sure yours is. I applaud their going after a niche that CZ refuses - an alloy frame with a real safety in a production gun.
But, they DO turn out pistols with partially applied mandrels (CHF) as demonstrated in threads on the CZ sites. Mine is not right. And they do say (again, no paperwork included in their re-inspection) that it is "within spec". They taut "NATO" and "ISO 9000", but these don't mean much to me.
and, just so you know that I am not a pure Canik hater, I'll say this: Their standard finish is decent, and seems to hold up. Their trigger reset is CRISPER and SHORTER than the 75B - more like a PreB. Their safety WILL NOT get waived off by accident. The fitment of the parts is very good, and the triggers seem to be decent OTB except for a overly strong mainspring.
johnnyrebel87
10-13-13, 09:29
How bad dies it effect accuracy benched? I saw that another time on a forum, but it was shooting under 3" at 25 anyways, so he left it.
Haven't done it yet. If it shoots as good as my CZ Compact off-hand, I'll be plenty satisfied. That potential exists. I need more shooting in a controlled situation. (BTW - I don't shoot all that well from a bench - sometimes I shoot as well off-hand - especially at 25 yards - sounds weird, but its that way with me). The barrel to frame fit is superb. I do think an oversight is NOT using CZ standard pin sizes and specs. If the Canik would for example, use the CZ Kadet Kit, this would be another MAJOR plus. Also, all the excellent CGW stuff would work, and be another big plus.
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