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rjacobs
08-29-12, 11:15
I am getting my list(and funds) together to build an SPR type upper. Wont bore you all with all the details, but I am planning to use an 18" Rainier Ultra Match barrel.

The last thing on my list I need to figure out is a muzzle device.

I am thinking one of the JP tactical comp's would probably work well since I believe its geared more towards accuracy than most of the other designs out there, which most of them, to me, are designed for the tactical crowd and 16"(and shorter) guns.

However

I have an AAC 762SDN-6 can in process right now. I dont know how much(if ever) I would use the can on this upper, but the option might be nice. So an AAC Brakeout is also on my radar.

If I am shooting the gun unsuppressed would the Brakeout cause any kind of crazy accuracy loss?

I know suppressed I will have a possible reduction in accuracy and am ok with that, but like I said the majority of the shooting with this gun will be un-suppressed, but I might like the option of suppressed shooting.

a0cake
08-29-12, 15:15
Comps are not necessary on SPR's. In fact, the associated blast from a comp will cause massive dust-printing when shot low to the ground in dusty, rocky, leafy, or otherwise loose terrain. Not ideal for the role an SPR is designed to fill.

Top port comps such as the Battle Comp alleviate some of this, but then you run into the associated accuracy degradation. This degradation usually is not severe, but you've dropped the coin for a top of the line barrel and will presumably be shooting match grade ammunition. Why add a component to the equation that reduces accuracy, no matter how slightly, when the benefits are so negligible for the intended application? It doesn't make sense.

If you plan on ever possibly using the AAC can, just go with a Blackout FH instead of the Brakeout. It makes so much more sense assuming the use of an SPR in its intended role. Muzzle rise and recoil are not as important for the high levels of short to mid-range precision that SPR's are designed to dominate in. The flash reduction and low observability characteristics of an effective flash hider are.

rjacobs
08-29-12, 16:05
I guess I hadnt thought of the dust being kicked up, but honestly everywhere around here is basically benchrest anyway.

I figured with a battlecomp you would have a loss of accuracy and some of the other designs are similar in they provide a non uniform muzzle blast.

I am now contemplating a White Oak Varmit barrel that isnt even threaded, just a plain bull barrel although I would lose the ability to run a can if I wanted to(although, like I said, it would probably be rare for me to run a can on this gun).

a0cake
08-29-12, 16:10
I guess I hadnt thought of the dust being kicked up, but honestly everywhere around here is basically benchrest anyway.

I figured with a battlecomp you would have a loss of accuracy and some of the other designs are similar in they provide a non uniform muzzle blast.

I am now contemplating a White Oak Varmit barrel that isnt even threaded, just a plain bull barrel although I would lose the ability to run a can if I wanted to(although, like I said, it would probably be rare for me to run a can on this gun).

Oh okay. Well, for absolute best accuracy, no muzzle device at all is best. In an extremely, extremely close, effectively unnoticeably different second place is a pronged FH like the AAC Blackout.

I gotcha' that it would be "rare" to run the can on the gun. Well, without the threads and device, it won't be rare, but impossible as you said. So if the Blackout fits into the budget, and you have an AAC can that you might possibly consider thinking about ever putting on the gun, there is no downside to it. You're probably tracking already, but you can get those WOA barrels in threaded configurations also.

rjacobs
08-29-12, 16:17
Oh okay. Well, for absolute best accuracy, no muzzle device at all is best. In an extremely, extremely close, effectively unnoticeably different second place is a pronged FH like the AAC Blackout.

I gotcha' that it would be "rare" to run the can on the gun. Well, without the threads and device, it won't be rare, but impossible as you said. So if the Blackout fits into the budget, and you have an AAC can that you might possibly consider thinking about ever putting on the gun, there is no downside to it. You're probably tracking, but you can get those WOA barrels in threaded configurations also.

damn it, now I got to make decisions and I dont like to be forced to make decisions:D. I like to be spoon fed everything.

I can afford the Blackout.

18" Rainier Ultra Match(shilen blank with ratchet rifling)
18" White Oak SPR barrel
20" White Oak Varmit barrel

hmmmm, decisions, decisions.

a0cake
08-29-12, 17:03
damn it, now I got to make decisions and I dont like to be forced to make decisions:D. I like to be spoon fed everything.

I can afford the Blackout.

18" Rainier Ultra Match(shilen blank with ratchet rifling)
18" White Oak SPR barrel
20" White Oak Varmit barrel

hmmmm, decisions, decisions.

Fortunately, there's no losing with those options. Were you to ask me, I would recommend the Rainier barrel mated to a Rainier Ultra Match Billet upper. Those RUM barrels are second only to the top tier cut rifled Kriegers etc. But obviously WOA's shoot lights out too. So again, no bad choices here.

rjacobs
08-29-12, 17:10
The billet uppers are OOS so I think I am going with a Vltor MUR, possibly without the FA since I am contemplating running the JP low mass bolt carrier. But if they come back in stock when I am ready to build(probably later next month) I will probably go with one since I like the milled in FA and brass deflector vs. the riveted on(or however its held on) on the Vltor.

JohnnyC
08-29-12, 19:57
You do understand that you cannot predict accuracy gains or losses prior to actually shooting with a can on correct? In fact, most well-designed suppressors give you a little increase in accuracy. There are many more than just anecdotal stories about groups tightening up after the installation of a silencer.

Are you thinking about POI shift? Again, it may or may not happen, but the only way to see is to shoot it to find out. It is far more important that the shift be repeatable than anything else. If I know it's got a .25MOA shift down, it's super easy to dial for that.

Either way, if you have an available silencer, I see no reason why you shouldn't use it.

a0cake
08-29-12, 20:03
If I know it's got a .25MOA shift down, it's super easy to dial for that.


That would be super easy, LOL. Because you wouldn't even have to do anything. Can you hold that, let alone notice a 2'' shift at 800 yards? I can't.

Just ribbing you a bit. Your point stands.

JohnnyC
08-30-12, 12:46
That would be super easy, LOL. Because you wouldn't even have to do anything. Can you hold that, let alone notice a 2'' shift at 800 yards? I can't.

Just ribbing you a bit. Your point stands.

That was kind of my point ;)

2ac
09-04-12, 15:29
The Vortex on the end of my Centurian Arms barrel has been working out very nicely.

davidjinks
09-05-12, 07:22
Is there a muzzle device that will:

Not hinder accuracy
Suppress flash
Not kick up dust (Grossly kick up dust)
Not make the rifle any louder (I.E. brake type noise)

My thought is the A2 matches that. I'm not overly familiar with the vortex and I don't care for the ping of the blackout.

Bal4eva
09-05-12, 21:33
This topic comes up a lot. Why don't we just list comp/flash muzzle devices that have or have not made a difference on accuracy.

My Brother in law has a BCM mk12 SPR with the Vltor comp and I can say from experience that it does not have a negative effect on accuracy.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Vltor-Compensator-Flash-Suppressor-p/vltor%20vc%201.htm

ALCOAR
09-05-12, 23:45
Not the actual muzzle device being used given it's a commonly accepted model that has been machined correctly.

At one time I thought closed end devices could have detrimental effects on accuracy, but at least the Battlecomps proved me wrong in this.

Unlike the mass produced A2 devices, buying blackouts, or similar models assure you that at least your muzzle device is correctly machined and concentric.

I don't screw around with torque values for precision piece muzzle devices, as I've seen a number of otherwise great shooting barrels suffer from having their muzzle device over torqued on.

5.56 rifles have no use for a brake imho....if you can't stay down on a 5.56 rifle in order to pick up splash, and recover completely for follow ups, a muzzle device isn't the solution...rather training, and trigger time is.

jstone
09-06-12, 03:41
This topic comes up a lot. Why don't we just list comp/flash muzzle devices that have or have not made a difference on accuracy.

My Brother in law has a BCM mk12 SPR with the Vltor comp and I can say from experience that it does not have a negative effect on accuracy.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Vltor-Compensator-Flash-Suppressor-p/vltor%20vc%201.htm

To say that you would need extensive time shooting the barrel bare and with the comp. Not saying you did not, but i highly doubted that you shot a threaded barrel bare. Im sure when shot comp was already installed. Which means it is impossible for you to say it has not affected accuracy.

Like trident said comp for 556 in far from necessary. Get a good flash hider like vortex or black out. They will offer the most benefit if you ever need to use on two legged soft targets, and that is 99.9% unlikely and just a fantasy of the shtfers. Comps are for magnum rifles.

Bal4eva
09-06-12, 08:17
To say that you would need extensive time shooting the barrel bare and with the comp. Not saying you did not, but i highly doubted that you shot a threaded barrel bare. Im sure when shot comp was already installed. Which means it is impossible for you to say it has not affected accuracy.

Like trident said comp for 556 in far from necessary. Get a good flash hider like vortex or black out. They will offer the most benefit if you ever need to use on two legged soft targets, and that is 99.9% unlikely and just a fantasy of the shtfers. Comps are for magnum rifles.

You are right in saying that I have not shot it with and without a comp but I have shot sub MOA with it on more than one occasion which leads me to belive that the comp has not had a negative effect on the accuracy of the rifle. Maybe it helped but my point was it didn't hurt.

davidjinks
09-06-12, 08:47
I'm tracking with over torquing.

I guess the real question is:

Is there a specific muzzle device design that either aids in "better" accuracy OR creates "poor" accuracy?

Also a question for you Trident:

Most of the guns I've seen you shoot are with a BC. In your opinion and experience have they hindered you in anyway?

Currently I have A2 FH and Ops Inc brakes on my precision rigs. I've noticed a slight accuracy difference with the A2 compared to the brake. With the edge going to the brake.


[QUOTE=TRIDENT82;1387654]Not the actual muzzle device being used given it's a commonly accepted model that has been machined correctly.

At one time I thought closed end devices could have detrimental effects on accuracy, but at least the Battlecomps proved me wrong in this.

Unlike the mass produced A2 devices, buying blackouts, or similar models assure you that at least your muzzle device is correctly machined and concentric.

I don't screw around with torque values for precision piece muzzle devices, as I've seen a number of otherwise great shooting barrels suffer from having their muzzle device over torqued on.

5.56 rifles have no use for a brake imho....if you can't stay down on a 5.56 rifle in order to pick up splash, and recover completely for follow ups, a muzzle device isn't the solution...rather training, and trigger time is.[/]

wahoo95
09-06-12, 09:25
Some say the Vortex enhances accuracy

TehLlama
09-06-12, 15:13
If you're never going to run a suppressor, the SEI Vortex is a perfectly good option. Sure, SEI makes a can that goes on that, and you could shorten it and install a HALO, but no real point.

Part time suppressed, a suggestion like the Blackout, or SF's equivalent (don't know the name, but that four pronged one) would be it.

I run a brake on my 18" simply because I plan to run it with a can more often than not, and the OPS suppressors have reduced POI shift when running the brake (older technology has limitations).

ALCOAR
09-06-12, 18:01
David, I was actually extremely skeptical about the BAC devices effecting accuracy.

Much like BAD Inc., BCE is guilty of weighing on the side of over caution, rather than disappoint potential end users or buyers of their products by putting "disclaimers" in their marketing literature. I.E....

"As to accuracy, the BattleComp is designed as Close Quarters Combat device. All solid bottom compensators can have some effect on accuracy depending on the load, but 99% of the folks who use the BattleComp for its intended purposes will never -- repeat NEVER notice significant changes in accuracy -- especially if one uses the practical standard of what is acceptable for combat from 100-300 yards.

If it is important to maintain a .5 MOA standard for whatever reason, BCE, LLC recommends the use of a bare, crowned muzzle and NO muzzle attachment."
Capt. Nick

Personally I still won't put a BAC device on a precision orientated build, however I have now discovered that for practical purposes...a BAC device on a CQB or HD/PD rifle won't prevent it from either A.) reaching out at long distances to make hits, or B.) won't noticeable effect group averages or sizes @ 100yds when doing ammo evaluations with it.

If I'm building from the get go a straight precision orientated rifle, I opt for a blackout usually.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07101-1.jpg

Bal4eva
09-06-12, 21:06
So from what I have read here and on other forums it seems as long as the flash hider/ comp is installed correctly it has little to no effect on accuracy regardless of manufacture. In order to ensure there is not an effect on accuracy get a flash hider/ comp that is symmetrical both top to bottom and side to side.

Alaskapopo
09-09-12, 17:15
I know that on my Larue Stealth that the Titan comp actually shrank my group sizes somewhat. Plus its fun to have a rifle that does not move so you can see the targets explode.
If you could swing it a surefire comp with a can as well would be the best combo in my opinion.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/LarueStealth-1.jpg

Pappabear
09-18-12, 01:45
I have AAC, ALL THEIR COMPS, BRAKES,..with a can and without. No loss in accuracy. I have an 18 WOA SPR with battle comp that shoots half inch groups. I love those battle comps. If I don't plan to run suppressed, I use a battle Comp. I run the double chamber AAC BRAKE on bolt guns. 1/2 inch 308's.

I can't help but to think, you need not worry.

wild_wild_wes
12-26-12, 22:23
On TOS recently there was a discussion about the latest thinking from the Army on muzzle devices; based on recent combat experience, flash supression is of utmost importance, as the enemy is now equipped with NODs, and an excessive flash/blast will bring a lot of return fire.

skywalkrNCSU
01-12-13, 15:40
So I am in the process of building my precision upper, will be using a Rainier 18" Ultramatch barrel but am pretty clueless about what I should use for a muzzle device. All I really care about is accuracy as it will be a plinker more than anything. Other than punching paper I might use it to take out a varmint every now and then. Basically, I am not building it to be a defense type gun or anything. I am looking at the two following:

Rainier Arms Xtreme Tactical Compensator XTC
or
Rainier Arms XD Flash Hider

Mainly because I am just trying to keep it as much Rainier as possible since everything else I have is complete frankengun. Suggestions?

wahoo95
01-12-13, 15:43
So I am in the process of building my precision upper, will be using a Rainier 18" Ultramatch barrel but am pretty clueless about what I should use for a muzzle device. All I really care about is accuracy as it will be a plinker more than anything. Other than punching paper I might use it to take out a varmint every now and then. Basically, I am not building it to be a defense type gun or anything. I am looking at the two following:

Rainier Arms Xtreme Tactical Compensator XTC
or
Rainier Arms XD Flash Hider

Mainly because I am just trying to keep it as much Rainier as possible since everything else I have is complete frankengun. Suggestions?

Smith Vortex would be my choice if I were in your shoes.

skywalkrNCSU
01-12-13, 15:53
Smith Vortex would be my choice if I were in your shoes.

Mind elaborating why? I am trying to learn about it as well

wahoo95
01-12-13, 15:55
Mind elaborating why? I am trying to learn about it as well

Excellent flash hider and doesn't affect accuracy like some of the brakes on the market. Some say the Vortex may even enhance accuracy, however I haven't seen any concrete data/testing on that.

skywalkrNCSU
01-12-13, 16:02
Excellent flash hider and doesn't affect accuracy like some of the brakes on the market. Some say the Vortex may even enhance accuracy, however I haven't seen any concrete data/testing on that.

Sounds good, thanks!

2ac
01-16-13, 22:56
Vortex is what's on my "SPR".

thegeneric
01-23-13, 19:42
XTC was/is one of the most effective comps I've ever used.

Dacam
01-23-13, 22:50
Here's a dumb question, can you run a threaded barrel without a muzzle device. The barrel is still crowned right?
Just one note on over torqued muzzle device. JP will sell you a muzzle break and also offer a crush washer or a jam nut. I went with the jam nut because it does't require as much torque to secure the device. Just thread the JP break on by hand, clock the device and tighten the jam nut.

http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n552/Dacam1/3ar.jpg

The_Hammer_Man
01-23-13, 23:02
Yes, you can run a threaded barrel w/o a muzzle device.

Google for 1/2x28 AR-15 thread protector.

Just unscrew your muzzle device and screw on the protector. Doesn't affect your accuracy at all.

I personally like the SmithVictor flash hider because I can tune it as needed.

And, I've almost never had to tune one.

MrFJones
01-27-13, 15:05
I'm using the vortex on my ar's because they are as previously stated a very nice flash hider, not a comp. I am also using it because it is only hand tightened and can be easily removed for a threaded can.

Achilles11B
02-03-13, 14:09
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.2_re.php

I have one on my SPR-style build. Very effective, and it can be easily unscrewed to change out with a can if needed.

tylerw02
02-20-13, 11:53
Are you thinking about POI shift? Again, it may or may not happen, but the only way to see is to shoot it to find out. It is far more important that the shift be repeatable than anything else. If I know it's got a .25MOA shift down, it's super easy to dial for that.

Either way, if you have an available silencer, I see no reason why you shouldn't use it.

.25 MOA seems a bit optimistic, doesn't it?

Also consider that the velocity with a suppressor changes, which further complicates things if very accurate shots are required. A few of my bolt guns see 30-40FPS difference.

ra2bach
02-20-13, 14:26
Fortunately, there's no losing with those options. Were you to ask me, I would recommend the Rainier barrel mated to a Rainier Ultra Match Billet upper. Those RUM barrels are second only to the top tier cut rifled Kriegers etc. But obviously WOA's shoot lights out too. So again, no bad choices here.

now I'm interested... :cool:

at 18" would you go Intermediate or SPR (rifle) gas?

the description says WOA contour for Intermediate and SPR countour for SPR, both at same weight of 2.9# - any idea what the difference is?..

ETA: uh... OK, why the Ranier billet upper? is this preferable to a MUR?..

geohans
02-22-13, 08:24
David, I was actually extremely skeptical about the BAC devices effecting accuracy.

Much like BAD Inc., BCE is guilty of weighing on the side of over caution, rather than disappoint potential end users or buyers of their products by putting "disclaimers" in their marketing literature. I.E....

"As to accuracy, the BattleComp is designed as Close Quarters Combat device. All solid bottom compensators can have some effect on accuracy depending on the load, but 99% of the folks who use the BattleComp for its intended purposes will never -- repeat NEVER notice significant changes in accuracy -- especially if one uses the practical standard of what is acceptable for combat from 100-300 yards.

If it is important to maintain a .5 MOA standard for whatever reason, BCE, LLC recommends the use of a bare, crowned muzzle and NO muzzle attachment."
Capt. Nick

Personally I still won't put a BAC device on a precision orientated build, however I have now discovered that for practical purposes...a BAC device on a CQB or HD/PD rifle won't prevent it from either A.) reaching out at long distances to make hits, or B.) won't noticeable effect group averages or sizes @ 100yds when doing ammo evaluations with it.

If I'm building from the get go a straight precision orientated rifle, I opt for a blackout usually.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07101-1.jpg


Trident, what rail/barrel/muzzle device are pictured there? thx

Pappabear
02-22-13, 09:19
So I am in the process of building my precision upper, will be using a Rainier 18" Ultramatch barrel but am pretty clueless about what I should use for a muzzle device. All I really care about is accuracy as it will be a plinker more than anything. Other than punching paper I might use it to take out a varmint every now and then. Basically, I am not building it to be a defense type gun or anything. I am looking at the two following:

Rainier Arms Xtreme Tactical Compensator XTC
or
Rainier Arms XD Flash Hider

Mainly because I am just trying to keep it as much Rainier as possible since everything else I have is complete frankengun. Suggestions?

I ran a Battle Comp on my SPR (.25-.50 inch gun) until recently. Changed for an adapter for my can. Battle Comps have never jacked my accuracy. As Trident and others have said, use with confidence.

Dave L.
02-22-13, 12:59
You guys ever shoot some control groups with no muzzle device and then shoot some after install?

I've actually never done it, but I may start in the future.

warner41
03-28-13, 21:53
My BCM barreled 18" SPR build has the Mod 0 on it, I love all things BCM but they really hit it out of the park with their comps.

Rmplstlskn
03-02-16, 10:27
To revive an old thread for muzzle device updates to a typical prone platform....

Finished an 18" build with a Mega MKM extended rifle upper and GTR lower with good components and GG&G bipod.... But I am undecided on a muzzle device. I do not yet own a can, so that option is not relevant for me now...

Right now I just put on a YHM Phantom I had sitting around. I would like some brake and compensation (who wouldn't?), but I also do not want puffs of dust and dirt and a ball of flame either.

So what does 2016 have to offer that 2013 (last post here) didn't for an SPR-ish type 77g. bullet delivery system?

Rmpl

The FNG
03-02-16, 11:19
To revive an old thread for muzzle device updates to a typical prone platform....

Finished an 18" build with a Mega MKM extended rifle upper and GTR lower with good components and GG&G bipod.... But I am undecided on a muzzle device. I do not yet own a can, so that option is not relevant for me now...

Right now I just put on a YHM Phantom I had sitting around. I would like some brake and compensation (who wouldn't?), but I also do not want puffs of dust and dirt and a ball of flame either.

So what does 2016 have to offer that 2013 (last post here) didn't for an SPR-ish type 77g. bullet delivery system?

Rmpl

I've been using the precision armament AFAB with pretty satisfying results. It's not new to 2016, but I really like it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TAZ
03-02-16, 12:12
My 18" has an Ops Inc brake and collar on it. Works well and doesn't seem to piss off folks on my flanks. My 16" has a SF brake. Works well but folks on my sides give me space.

Rmplstlskn
03-02-16, 14:24
Would like some prone experience with comp/brake devices...

Rmpl