View Full Version : Remington/Bushmaster Concerns
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 11:20
Hi all,
Hope that I am about to vent in the proper place...here goes.
I recently attended a Remington/Bushmaster Armorer school in NY (NYTOA conference to be exact), whereat I was told about a "VIP Purchasing" program. The instructor, Ken Nickerson (seems like a nice guy), told us all that once we completed the course, we would have the opportunity to purchase a Remingto/Bushmaster product at a greatly reduced rate (46% off of MSRP is what I was told). Sounds like a great deal, no?
So after not hearing from Remington/Bushmaster for a couple of months, I sent an email to inquire about the program. Spoke with a guy there, Ed O'Malley, who called me and gave me all the ins and outs, and it sounded as advertised...which was good.
I then received a call back from Ed, who regretfully told me that I was not eligible for the VIP program because I attended a "Free" course. I say, "huh, I paid $300 for the course". He was very apologetic, and directed me to call Ken Nickerson, which I did. Ken explained to me that the course I attended was a "free, write off" course...what that meant was that they donated a course to the NYTOA in return for....something I guess. And, that although he had explained that I (and everyone else in the course) was eligible for the VIP program, that since my course was this caliber, sorry no cheap gun for you.
Not an offer to make good, not an offer for anything to replace my feeling of having just gotten screwed.
Anyone else hear of this?
KingsideRook
08-29-12, 11:35
It does suck that they wouldn't honor their verbal commitment - It's not as though Bushington can't absorb a discount on a rifle. I think that, were I Ed or Ken, I would have sucked it up and offered to make good on it, because they said they would offer it to people in the class. But hey, look on the bright side - at least this way, you don't end up chasing the systemic issues that come free with every Bushmaster AR15.:rolleyes:
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 12:16
You have an excellent point...perhaps they did me a favor by pushing me towards other brands of rifles.
Thanks for the brighter outlook!
Just be glad you did not end up with one of their piece of shit rifles.
From experience... Consider this a blessing. Thanks for sharing and getting the word out.
While I do agree that this is BS, it is really a blessing. ;)
C4
I agree 100% Blessing Now go to Grants Site and Buy a real Rifle :D
I can't believe that the same lawyers that allow Bushmaster to build guns also allow them to teach average joes how to build them :suicide:
Yeah, what a POS those Remington guns are:
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rem_xm2010_1-tfb.jpg
I don't know if the deal applied to the higher end Remingtons or if only to the lower-end 700's and Bushmaster products, but if it's the former, I'd be pretty pissed if that's what was promised.
If it was for a Bushmaster AR-15 or similar, yeah, maybe it's all for the best. But even right now I wouldn't pass up a ~$450 Bushmaster for a loaner rifle. So there's still good reason to be upset.
Yeah if you could've gotten a nice 700 or even an ACR enhanced I would be pissed.
Yeah, what a POS those Remington guns are:
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/rem_xm2010_1-tfb.jpg
That's a nice rifle bro. I love my 700
That's a nice rifle bro. I love my 700
Oh it's not mine; just a picture from the internet. But I did carry an XM2010 on Uncle Sam's dime and it is a phenomenal system, as was the M24 for many many years. I don't even come close to being able to afford one of the newer Remington chassis rifles personally.
ACR enhanced .
Dude! Come on.
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 14:30
As explained to me, the deal was for ANY Remington/Bushmaster gun...I'm not a hater on these rifles, but I do understand that there are better guns. That being said, I definitely wanted to buy one simply because the deal was really good...too good to be true I guess.
I already own a DPMS AP4, which I have no issue with; shoots fine, was reasonably priced. Now I have to get rid of it because Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS/Advanced Armament are all owned by Freedom Group.
They are all dead to me.
As explained to me, the deal was for ANY Remington/Bushmaster gun...I'm not a hater on these rifles, but I do understand that there are better guns. That being said, I definitely wanted to buy one simply because the deal was really good...too good to be true I guess.
I already own a DPMS AP4, which I have no issue with; shoots fine, was reasonably priced. Now I have to get rid of it because Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS/Advanced Armament are all owned by Freedom Group.
They are all dead to me.
I'm sorry to laugh at your misfortune, but that last statement comes across really funny.
If I thought I had a shot at a half-off M2010, I'd be severely disappointed too.
sinlessorrow
08-29-12, 15:27
I agree 100% Blessing Now go to Grants Site and Buy a real Rifle :D
+1 to this, Grant is the man to go to.
fallenromeo
08-29-12, 15:43
that sucks that they didn't make good. Hard to believe that they cut corners on their rifles (exception for the higher end Remingtons) and have shit service too. Great way to run a company. :rolleyes:
Pistol Shooter
08-29-12, 16:16
Sorry they screwed you Brick Stone. WTF is wrong with people anymore? :sad:
I think everyone on this board will remember Ken Nickerson's name and how he mislead you.
You are better off anyway. I've been to 2 Remington schools, and everytime they offer you this great deal, but in the end (unless its a high demand product) you could have found it just as cheap at your local Gun store.
Years ago I purchased an 11-87 police and once the check was in the mail I start seeing them for similar prices in Shotgun New and other advertisements.
Just goes to show you how marked up those MSRP's are.
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 18:00
The point isn't that I missed out on a product that's good, or not good, but that there was a breakdown in integrity...their representative offered me a deal, and then told me to go scratch when I tried to take them up on it.
Sorry, but I think that's a lousy way to run a company like Remington (Bushmaster, DPMS, Freedom Group...). Glad to see that I'm not the only one!
FYI, I went through one of the free NRA Remington armorer's courses several years ago and we got the discount certificate. Ken was the instructor for that one as well. Sucks that they didn't follow through on their word.
IIRC, they the exempted the M24 from it though.
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 18:22
You know what JEL458, if Ken would have said something like, "sorry, you aren't eligible for the full VIP, but I can get you XYZ or blah blah..." in an effort to make good, then I would have understood and appreciated that. However, all I got was "yeah, I shouldn't have mentioned the VIP in that course". WTF?
Ken was a good guy in the course...talked some hunting and gun stuff with him and he seemed GTG. But I feel like he screwed me and I think other gun buyers should hear about stuff like this.
Funny this thread came up. I just spent some time on the phone with Remington Customer Service yesterday and still have the notes by my keyboard. I have a 870 USSS 14" 870 (NFA item). The very FIRST time I tried to adjust the windage the craptastic "Iron Sight Gun Works" just snapped into two pieces. Looked like some Chinese factory smelted some MatchBox cars and cast the sight.
Called Remington, they said it was out of warranty. The lady I spoke to said they don't have the part in stock, go to Midway and order LPA model blah blah because they are on backorder at Remington. I politely informed her that it wasn't a LPA sight and Remington had milled the receiver flat to install the whole rear sight assembly and that the LPA sight did not have a flat base. She told me that wasn't what she was showing on her parts diagram. When I told her she was wrong and I wanted to send it to Remington for repair and they would see, this woman proceeded to HANG UP on me.
Seriously! I was polite but firm. Honestly I have the same model at work and am intimately familiar with it. I purchased this one to train on my own time and take some classes with something identical to our duty shotgun. The only difference between the two is the rear sight and our issued one has the LPA sight, so I do know the difference in them and the receiver isn't milled with the LPA.
I call back and get Chris on the line who is very helpful and wants to resolve it and sends me to Ed. Ed is a great guy and I end up emailing pics so he understands the difference as well as seeing the broken rear sight is marked Iron Sight Gun Works. He is very apologetic and says they no longer mill the receiver like that nor have the part in stock. Refers me to Hans Vang and says he can send me a label but I said I could do it just as easily.
I believe Ed is operating as a low level employee and can't call the shot in your case. My interaction with him gave me the impression he wanted to do the right thing and get it resolved but is limited by company rules, or in your case, a higher manager. He probably doesn't have the authority to make the decision to settle it on his level or offer you any compensation.
Sorry this happened to you. Like you, I will never purchase another Remington product again after this experience. It will cost me several hundred minimum to have Hans make it rock solid and done right. By the time I bought the shotgun and had it repaired by Hans, I should of just bought one of his customized 870's in the first place.
I don't fault Ed (very helpful) or Chris but this other lady blatantly hung up on me, I was on a hardline.
Good luck Remington. Glad to see some Karma going your way with your M4 contract and the GAO upholding Colts' protest.
Brick Stone
08-29-12, 20:31
TODD762, wow that story sucks...I was only trying to purchase a rifle, you got one that is screwed up. But like you said, you're only looking to get it right, not get over on anyone.
Ed seemed to be sincerely attempting to help me out, but he was, ultimately, not able to help me out. Sounds like Ken could have done right by me, but chose not to.
+1 to Karma
Sounds like a BS deal on their part, but maybe that will show you more clearly the "big" picture. Now you know to ask the detailed questions next time. (if there is a next time.)
They did you a huge favor OP!!! Get yourself a BCM and never look back ;)
remington79
08-29-12, 21:52
One of my friends and I were big Remington fans. Ever since they got bought out by Freedom Group we won't have anything to do with them. he has looked at some of the newer Remingtons and doesn't feel the quality is there anymore. Fortunately we bought our 700s years ago. He was telling me that he has sighted in a 6-7 Savages for friends and family and has been impressed with their quality. We think Remington is just riding on the name now.
Freedoooom
08-30-12, 03:49
You weren't screwed.
Someone misspoke, and said there was a discount, that wasn't meant for the particular group.
The only case for being screwed is if were you were sold on the service on the basis of the discount, and by your own admission, you weren't.
Sounds like you probably paid $300.00 for your NYTOA conference, not the Remington AC. The NYTOA conference website lists registrations at about that price, depending on your timing and status.
If you didn't pay full tuition, I wouldn't expect to get any kind of AC discount unless they were being nice. Some will still offer the AC discounts for the conference classes or specials. Many won't.
Burning Ed, Ken, and Remington at the stake here serves no useful purpose. Ken made a mistake. Drive on. When you get free pie, don't complain because it didn't come with a scoop of ice cream.
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