View Full Version : How do you keep the buffer tube straight?
unclerandy
08-30-12, 21:03
How the hell do you keep the buffer tube straight and keep it from turning when you tighten the castle nut? I have the vise insert in the magwell but cant keep the buffer tube from twisting off center when I start to tighten the castle nut. Any tips would be appreciated. I dont have two vises so I'm not sure how to get this done.
Attend my course and you will find out.
If everything is assembled properly, there should be minimal movement when you do this.
Is your endplate installed correctly? The little nub that is on it should be sitting in the rear of the lower receiver. Once the castle nut is hand tight, place your stock on the tube and then get your tool.
Apply some pressure to the nut will using your other hand to grasp and hold the stock. It doesn't need to be gorilla tight. Just tight enough to secure the endplate. The important part is to make sure that you stake the castle nut.
How the hell do you keep the buffer tube straight and keep it from turning when you tighten the castle nut? I have the vise insert in the magwell but cant keep the buffer tube from twisting off center when I start to tighten the castle nut. Any tips would be appreciated. I dont have two vises so I'm not sure how to get this done.
Trial and error mostly. I try to guess how much tube will rotate and spin it that much in the opposite direction, snug the castle nut by hand and then put the wrench on it. You can also slide a stock onto the tube and use it for leverage to hold the tube in place as you tighten the castle nut - Shoot, IG beat me to it :o
EDIT: Well I must have been posting at the same time as the people above. No need to post the same things again.
unclerandy
08-30-12, 21:19
Attend my course and you will find out.
If everything is assembled properly, there should be minimal movement when you do this.
Is your endplate installed correctly? The little nub that is on it should be sitting in the rear of the lower receiver. Once the castle nut is hand tight, place your stock on the tube and then get your tool.
Apply some pressure to the nut will using your other hand to grasp and hold the stock. It doesn't need to be gorilla tight. Just tight enough to secure the endplate. The important part is to make sure that you stake the castle nut.
I'd love to take your course, I even started a regional thread trying to get Southern California members in but no response. I plan on torquing to 40ft pounds as directed and will stake it if I can ever get it straight. I'm super anal and using two levels, one on the top of the receiver and one on the flat of the buffer tube and its driving me flippin crazy trying to get it straight!
scoutchris
08-30-12, 21:25
There's no need for the levels, dude. Just eyeball that shit and call it a day. Just make sure that end plate is totally inserted as you tighten the nut nut.
Are you using a standard endplate or something like the magpul asap?
unclerandy
08-30-12, 21:37
Noveske end plate with QD. Everything is assembled correctly besides keeping the buffer tube straight.
How the hell do you keep the buffer tube straight and keep it from turning when you tighten the castle nut? I have the vise insert in the magwell but cant keep the buffer tube from twisting off center when I start to tighten the castle nut. Any tips would be appreciated. I dont have two vises so I'm not sure how to get this done.
How are you securing your lower receiver while you are tightening the receiver extension nut?
Noveske end plate with QD. Everything is assembled correctly besides keeping the buffer tube straight.
Your endplate QD cup should fit in the recess in the back of the lower receiver. There should also be tab on the hole for the receiver extension that fits into the channel on the extension. With the endplate snug against the receiver, that tab should keep the extension from moving more than a degree or two either way as you tighten down your castle nut.
Good question. I should have asked that one myself.
How are you securing your lower receiver while you are tightening the receiver extension nut?
I've run across this problem when installing Vltor A5 kits. I've had to break stakes to straighten shit out because it'd drive me nuts.
When you get into these aftermarket plates like Nova sky and such... they just don't square up like Colt parts. Nature of the beast.
unclerandy
08-30-12, 22:15
Its in the CTK ultimate gun vise with magwell insert also.
13401
unclerandy
08-30-12, 22:16
I've run across this problem when installing Vltor A5 kits. I've had to break stakes to straighten shit out because it'd drive me nuts.
When you get into these aftermarket plates like Nova sky and such... they just don't square up like Colt parts. Nature of the beast.
The endplate has nothing to do with the issue.
One thing I will tell you is this. Not all buffer tubes are created equal. I have installed some that were Jenna Jamison sloppy when they went into the receiver. You just have to work around it. If it was me I would consider a new tube.
The advise that has been given is about the best. As for your worrying about the torque value, you are worrying too much. Take this from someone who installed about 25 today alone.
Its in the CTK ultimate gun vise with magwell insert also.
unclerandy
08-30-12, 23:44
One thing I will tell you is this. Not all buffer tubes are created equal. I have installed some that were Jenna Jamison sloppy when they went into the receiver. You just have to work around it. If it was me I would consider a new tube.
The advise that has been given is about the best. As for your worrying about the torque value, you are worrying too much. Take this from someone who installed about 25 today alone.
This is a DDM4V3 the threads are smooth and tight not sloppy at all. I will figure out some way to hold both the lower and the buffer tube while torquing.
Your question was already answered. Its not magic. Tiighten castle until it is snug. Please the wrench on the castle nut and tighten it doesn't really need to be torqued. most people can tighten it down enough to where they know.
This is a DDM4V3 the threads are smooth and tight not sloppy at all. I will figure out some way to hold both the lower and the buffer tube while torquing.
unclerandy
08-31-12, 01:34
Your question was already answered. Its not magic. Tiighten castle until it is snug. Please the wrench on the castle nut and tighten it doesn't really need to be torqued. most people can tighten it down enough to where they know.
This is my first M4. I'm 42 years old and have been shooting since I was 5 years old. I assume there are torque specs for a reason. I know its not some super serious issue. But to say "most people know" is quite a broad statement. I am a perfectionist. Although anoying even to myself there's nothing wrong with that. I appreciate all the input and help a lot! I'm not satisfied with "grip it and rip it" approach. I will learn as I go and post my solution to perfect alignment as I find it. I know most wont care about "perfection" but I know some will.
Its in the CTK ultimate gun vise with magwell insert also.
13401
Unfortunately that CTK unit is not capable of securing your lower receiver properly. The only thing a magazine well block is good for is installing lower receiver parts.
The endplate has nothing to do with the issue.
Well.. the plate or the channel in the RE threads. In either case, I've only had this ass ache with aftermarket parts....
What is your preferred method? I've installed receiver extensions using an old magazine as a mag well bock and I'll admit I don't like that method. I've also lightly clamped on the receiver itself near the selector hole where there's the most flat area; that works pretty well for me.
Unfortunately that CTK unit is not capable of securing your lower receiver properly. The only thing a magazine well block is good for is installing lower receiver parts.
I usually just clamp the RE itself into the vise with some padded jaws. Has worked well for me.
I can't understand the OP's issue. The endplate keeps the RE straight by virtue of the tab on the endplate that goes into the notch in the RE.
What's the problem again?
I don't know if it was because the tab wasn't long enough or because the notch wasn't deep enough but one RE I installed rotated against the end plate and the tab gouged into the RE threads witch allowed extra rotation.
I guess it depends on how much slop there is between the tab and the notch.
What's the problem again?
I think it's that even with the tab there's enough play that the RE is no longer dead nuts even with the rest. As a semi perfectionist myself I had the same question long ago but then realized no one's gonna look at my rifle ass-on to check whether the stock is 2 degrees off from the receiver.
However, I still "stress" the 40 ft-lbs torque so I'm glad to hear from IG that this isn't worth the care. I have a shitty stock tool and keep ripping castle nut teeth trying to get the torque right. I'll quit nerding out about it now!
I've probably never installed a receiver extension that was "perfectly" straight. It's also Never mattered either, and without a being ridiculously obsessive about it you can't tell. "Eyeball" that shit and move on with the build. Never gonna cause a problem.
I bet Colt has a special jig for this.
I bet Colt doesn't give a shit either. When dealing with stuff this minor, there is such a thing as close enough.
AR15barrels
08-31-12, 15:16
For the benefit of a fellow perfectionist, here is something that works...
Clamp the lower receiver into a set of 80% drill jigs.
Lay it sideways on the mill table and clamp it down.
Take a 1-2-3 block and lay that up next to the bottom of the receiver extension.
That sets your perpendicular plane.
Clamp the 1-2-3 block to the receiver extension THEN also clamp it down to the table.
Tighten the lock ring to the torque you desire.
Stake it.
Unbolt everything from the mill table and enjoy your perfectly straight buffer tube.
If you live in the greater los angeles area, come over and you can use my mill table for a bottle of root beer...
I bet Colt doesn't give a shit either. When dealing with stuff this minor, there is such a thing as close enough.
If Colt didn't give a shit why did they go through all that trouble to build their jig?
If Colt didn't give a shit why did they go through all that trouble to build their jig?
simple..they love building jigs lol. Has anyone ever seen this jig?
sinlessorrow
08-31-12, 15:35
This is my first M4. I'm 42 years old and have been shooting since I was 5 years old. I assume there are torque specs for a reason. I know its not some super serious issue. But to say "most people know" is quite a broad statement. I am a perfectionist. Although anoying even to myself there's nothing wrong with that. I appreciate all the input and help a lot! I'm not satisfied with "grip it and rip it" approach. I will learn as I go and post my solution to perfect alignment as I find it. I know most wont care about "perfection" but I know some will.
Don't worry about torque values on the castle nut. Tighten it down tight using your own strength, you want it tight enough thatthe receiver extension is tight with no movement then stake the end plate into the notches on the castle nut.
simple..they love building jigs lol. Has anyone ever seen this jig?
I don't know..... It's theoretical at this point.
I usually just clamp the RE itself into the vise with some padded jaws. Has worked well for me.
Exactly...
The tool pictured is the one I use. For ease of photos, I din't attach a breaker bar. After the nut has been torqued, you simply slide the tool down to the thickest part of the rib on the RE and apply pressure counter clockwise and nudge the rib to the 6 o'clock position.
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/th_ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31001800x537.jpg (http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31001800x537.jpg) http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/th_ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31002800x537.jpg (http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31002800x537.jpg) http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/th_ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31003800x625.jpg (http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31003800x625.jpg) http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/th_ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31004800x516.jpg (http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad16/phoenixarmament/Receiver%20Extension%20Tools/ReceiverExtensionTools2012-08-31004800x516.jpg)
Vice jaw pads - $38
RE Tool - $45
Vise - $1000
This is my first M4. I'm 42 years old and have been shooting since I was 5 years old. I assume there are torque specs for a reason. I know its not some super serious issue. But to say "most people know" is quite a broad statement. I am a perfectionist. Although anoying even to myself there's nothing wrong with that. I appreciate all the input and help a lot! I'm not satisfied with "grip it and rip it" approach. I will learn as I go and post my solution to perfect alignment as I find it. I know most wont care about "perfection" but I know some will.
Think about all the time you could have spent shooting instead of worring about keeping that tube straight and torqued.
You have gotten solid advice here. Tighten it, stake it, and go shoot it.
The Noveske plate has a round housing for the QD that goes into the round hole in the receiver. It also has a tab for the slot in the buffer tube. How can it NOT be aligned perfectly? Am I missing something?
Perfectionist is a nice way of saying OCD. ;)
C4
polymorpheous
08-31-12, 20:25
This thread deals of TOS.
The end plate tab allows for how much rotation?
Is it really necessary to use a pair of torpedo level to install the receiver extension?
37 years of shooting does not make one a competent armorer.
mallowpufft
08-31-12, 20:27
So I'm pretty ignorant in that I've installed all of two buffer tubes but I didn't think if was possible to have it not be aligned what with the tab on the bottom of the end plate.
Just don't forget to not lose the rear take down pin detent spring. I forgot it was theft when I want from the carbine RE to an A5.
Remembered it real quick when I got to the range two days later and the damned pin kept walking out.
Tapatalk ate my spelling and grammar.
"Jenna Jamison sloppy"
That cracked me up.
How do I keep them straight? While it might seem trivial, using a quality endplate helps, as some of them have a smaller index tab that allows for more rotation of the tube. I also stick to LMT tubes for the anti-rotation tab feature (where it meets the buffer retainer).
It can vary though. Sub-par components from sub-par manufacturers have sloppy fit, are over- or under-sized, and are clearly one of those "only looks like the real deal" things.
Quality parts (LMT tubes and Noveske end plates) seem to give me good results and have the least rotation.
And use the right wrench and secure the receiver in a vise. Don't put it between your knees and hope for the best.
AR15barrels
09-01-12, 00:39
The Noveske plate has a round housing for the QD that goes into the round hole in the receiver. It also has a tab for the slot in the buffer tube. How can it NOT be aligned perfectly? Am I missing something?
There is some slop between the buffer tube slot and the tab that aligns the tube.
The OP is talking about the alignment within that sloppy zone...
This is why I try to use mil-spec parts. Mucho easier to troubleshoot. This site tought me this the hard way. Make it easier on yourself in the future.
There is some slop between the buffer tube slot and the tab that aligns the tube.
The OP is talking about the alignment within that sloppy zone...
That's not OCD, that's CDO. It's like OCD, but with the letters in alphabetical order like they should be.
That's not OCD, that's CDO. It's like OCD, but with the letters in alphabetical order like they should be.
Thank you! :)
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