View Full Version : Extended Support Hand Carry
A recent injury to my shoulder has me rethinking my current approach to weak hand training (disclaimer is that while I've been a lifelong shooter, I've only begun to take training more seriously over the past year). I do occasionally train with my support hand, but the situation isn't a temporary, "strong hand unavailable" such as for an injury or simply having the hand occupied (moving child/family). The strong side shoulder is fairly weak right now, and likely will be for 2-3 weeks.
My question is - how have folks in similar situations adapted? Keep in mind I'm a civ, and primarily concerned with continuing CCW. I realize this likely impacts a small percentage of users, but I've thought through the situation, and don't seem to be coming up with many workable solutions besides dealing with the discomfort and limited range of motion and carry as usual. However, I recognize that just because I can't come up with better solutions, that the greater community has not/can not. I did search, both using GoogleFu as well as M4, and came up with a very relevant thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-34283.html
However, the only reasonable option (to me for the moment) is having a support side holster rig to match the strong side. Is this an acceptable approach?
Failure2Stop
09-06-12, 22:35
However, the only reasonable option (to me for the moment) is having a support side holster rig to match the strong side. Is this an acceptable approach?
I can't think of a better solution.
I lost the use of my "strong" side arm for over 6 months. I called up a buddy who is left handed and had him bring me a few holsters. After some dry fire practice and presentation, it became second nature. It sure was difficult at the beginning and live firing was even more difficult but if you put in the time and practice, you will be able to do it.
O
I can't think of a better solution.
F2S - thank you, your input is greatly appreciated. It seems I've been overthinking things. Looks like I'll be needing some new gear.
The appendix carry allows for the best accessibility to both hands at the same time, but if you haven't carried that way before, now is not the time to experiment.
I would go with a support side OWB holster. I have been working quite a bit on support hand skills, and while on accuracy part the things have moved forward reasonably well, the presentation, out of the holster or just from the low ready(on timer), has just been hard. Hence. I'd use the fastest holster available, which to me is an OWB kydex.
The biggest stepping stone will be overcoming or working around your eye dominance.
The physical muscle memory training is the easy part. Trying to re train your brain is the hardest part and will require adaptation via your technique.
Canting the head slightly to align your dominant eye with the pistol will be necessary.
I have been going through the same thing as you since i tore a tendon in my thumb a month and a half ago.
ArRazorback
09-07-12, 01:14
The biggest stepping stone will be overcoming or working around your eye dominance.
The physical muscle memory training is the easy part. Trying to re train your brain is the hardest part and will require adaptation via your technique.
Canting the head slightly to align your dominant eye with the pistol will be necessary.
I have been going through the same thing as you since i tore a tendon in my thumb a month and a half ago.
Speaking of non-dominant hand, non-dominant eye shooting, I'm reading "Fearless," about Adam Brown, a SEAL team six operator. http://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Undaunted-Ultimate-Sacrifice-Operator/dp/0307730697
I don't want to go into too much detail for fear of spoiling quite a story, but it appears that making the transition is doable at the most demanding levels. If you haven't heard of it, check it out. It's not a look into DEVGRU tactics, training, etc., but it's a good read about an impressive man.
The biggest stepping stone will be overcoming or working around your eye dominance.
I'm cross eye dominant. Whenever I shoot pistol with left or right hand, I just bring sights in front of my dominant eye. Eye dominance is more problem with long gun than with pistol.
The appendix carry allows for the best accessibility to both hands at the same time, but if you haven't carried that way before, now is not the time to experiment.
I would go with a support side OWB holster. I have been working quite a bit on support hand skills, and while on accuracy part the things have moved forward reasonably well, the presentation, out of the holster or just from the low ready(on timer), has just been hard. Hence. I'd use the fastest holster available, which to me is an OWB kydex.
Thank you, and to all the replies. I currently have IWB and OWB kydex options for strong side, and periodically practice support hand shooting, but I've never "put it all together."
This definitely is an eye opener and reinforces my need to continue to build this skillset - since I don't have a support hand set-up, I've obviously never even practiced it which is oversight on my part.
tfltackdriver
09-07-12, 07:55
Thank you, and to all the replies. I currently have IWB and OWB kydex options for strong side, and periodically practice support hand shooting, but I've never "put it all together."
This definitely is an eye opener and reinforces my need to continue to build this skillset - since I don't have a support hand set-up, I've obviously never even practiced it which is oversight on my part.
The human body, your brain included, has all sorts of fun redundancy built in. Learn the fundamentals and get a very good dry-fire practice routine established. There are members here who can make better suggestions than I can. If you're serious, and you spend enough time on it, you will be impressed not only with yourself, but in the way we're built as human beings. When and if your dominant side gets back to 100 percent, you'll be a much better shooter for it.
The human body, your brain included, has all sorts of fun redundancy built in. Learn the fundamentals and get a very good dry-fire practice routine established. There are members here who can make better suggestions than I can. If you're serious, and you spend enough time on it, you will be impressed not only with yourself, but in the way we're built as human beings. When and if your dominant side gets back to 100 percent, you'll be a much better shooter for it.
I couldn't agree more, and have already augmented my approach - still need additional gear, but am doing what I can now. Thank you.
nothing better than a "New York Reload", as Randy Cain calls it. why carry a spare mag when a spare gun is so much faster and better in case of a malf?
I recently got a M&P Shield as a BUG. Since I'm left-handed, I carry it RH. all my practice with this gun is RH. now it feels natural and I'm starting to incorporate RH exclusive practice with my FS as well...
nothing better than a "New York Reload", as Randy Cain calls it. why carry a spare mag when a spare gun is so much faster and better in case of a malf?
That statement is an absolute which in and of itself is flawed.
Montrala,
My natural grip offsets the pistol to the dominant side which means if i am holding the pistol with my right hand, the sights are lined up with my right eye.
If i am holding the pistol with my left hand, the sights are lined up with my left eye. This is why i mentioned having to rotate my head slightly to bring my dominant eye in line with the sights when switching to my weak hand grip.
The rest is just mental trickery to get my eyes to focus on what needs focusing on. :)
In 2007 I suffered an injury at work to my right/strong hand that required multiple sutures and left my hand encased in fiberglass—in short, I had no use of my right/strong hand for several months. Like many, I had done a fair amount of training where we were required to practice weak hand shooting to simulate an injury to the strong hand. So no problems right? I thought I’d just get a left hand holster and carry my 1911 on the left side and drive on. It turns out that while this sounds great in theory, things got a bit more interesting when having to do it for real. As soon as I was able, I went to the range to check out things…hmmm, not so good. Turns out the 1911 was a bit harder to use purely one handed. Mag changes were really slow with only one functioning hand, also the 1911 torques a bit when I shoot it using just the weak-hand. Since larger magazine capacity and less recoil seemed to be a good thing, I shifted over to a G19 for CCW carry using a left hand holster. Hits were much better, and while mag changes were still slow, they were not so frequent. There is a lot to be said for having more rounds available in the gun… Todd Green from Pistoltraining.com was the instructor who most helped me improve my Glock shooting.
That statement is an absolute which in and of itself is flawed.
Montrala,
My natural grip offsets the pistol to the dominant side which means if i am holding the pistol with my right hand, the sights are lined up with my right eye.
If i am holding the pistol with my left hand, the sights are lined up with my left eye. This is why i mentioned having to rotate my head slightly to bring my dominant eye in line with the sights when switching to my weak hand grip.
The rest is just mental trickery to get my eyes to focus on what needs focusing on. :)
well, your statement stating my statement is an absolute which in and of itself is flawed, is a statement itself, which in and of itself is flawed as well! and as a rule, I try to stay away from all that... ;)
speaking generally, however, a backup is better than a reload assuming the proper set up. getting back to the OP question, he's asking about an injury in which, "The strong side shoulder is fairly weak right now, and likely will be for 2-3 weeks"...the only reasonable option (to me for the moment) is having a support side holster rig to match the strong side. Is this an acceptable approach?" I believe it is...
anyway, I understand what you mean about needing to offset for your non-dominant eye in a two-handed stance. I am cross-dominant (left hand/right eye) and do this instinctively in a two hand dominant grip.
some trainers teach a one-handed support side technique which involves rotating the pistol inboard to bring the sights into alignment with the dominant eye but I don't do that because my support side is already in line with my dominant eye. screwed up, I know, but it is what it is...
Salamander
09-08-12, 15:02
Not long ago I had a relatively minor shoulder injury, it didn't influence my ability to shoot but it did limit range of motion for a while and for a few months it was extremely uncomfortable to reach back to a strong side holster.... enough to impair speed and a smooth draw.
I thought it would be simple to transition to the other side for a while, because I'm ambidextrous for many activities, and have shot well at the range in the past during limited weak side training. I found that it did however require some practice to build the necessary muscle memory. Buying a weak side holster took 10 minutes, getting to where I was reasonably confident about using it took several training outings and a lot more dry fire practice.
As someone stated above, one thing that took a while was learning to transition to the other eye. A slight tilt of the head did indeed make that easier.
A few trips to the chiropractor and the massage therapist and some stretching and then some time back at the gym re-strengthening out of practice muscles and I'm pretty much back to normal. If I'm ever in a similar situation of limited strong side use again, I feel much more ready for it now.
Littlelebowski
09-08-12, 17:47
I did it.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_0300.jpg
Sounds like a great opportunity to improve on the weak hand skills. Take it as a challenge. Dont worry about eye dominance.
I am cross eye dominant also. When I injured my dominant elbow, I continued to carry on my non-dominant side. I was thankful to have incorporated non-dominant side training into my regular training sessions. Think of this time as an opportunity to get more comfortable with your non-dominant hand training.
Montrala,
My natural grip offsets the pistol to the dominant side which means if i am holding the pistol with my right hand, the sights are lined up with my right eye.
If i am holding the pistol with my left hand, the sights are lined up with my left eye. This is why i mentioned having to rotate my head slightly to bring my dominant eye in line with the sights when switching to my weak hand grip.
The rest is just mental trickery to get my eyes to focus on what needs focusing on. :)
I have very strong right eye domination and left handed at same time. I tried to train my left eye by obscuring right eye vision. Even started in competition with some matte tape on glasses. Works good for competition, but not in real life. I also tried canting my head to pistol, but sight acquisition was to slow, when both sights and head are moving as same time it is harder to get them in line, than using good press out with straight head. So I just bring my pistol in front of my right eye, not matter what hand I use to hold it and no matter if I use one hand or two hands grip. However my grip on pistol is different for right hand (I have pistol straight in my hand) and for left hand (I have pistol canted slightly to the left side). This allow me to keep straight and locked wrist.
I have very strong right eye domination and left handed at same time. I tried to train my left eye by obscuring right eye vision. Even started in competition with some matte tape on glasses. Works good for competition, but not in real life. I also tried canting my head to pistol, but sight acquisition was to slow, when both sights and head are moving as same time it is harder to get them in line, than using good press out with straight head. So I just bring my pistol in front of my right eye, not matter what hand I use to hold it and no matter if I use one hand or two hands grip. However my grip on pistol is different for right hand (I have pistol straight in my hand) and for left hand (I have pistol canted slightly to the left side). This allow me to keep straight and locked wrist.
same non-dominant issues. my right eye is so dominant that I just gave up and shoot long guns from the right side even though I still shoot pistol LH.
I read where people tilt/cant their head to move the eye into position but that is not a good solution. stereo vision and the fact that we are wired to seeing the world straight up and down makes this a no-no.
I tried just moving the pistol over in front of my right eye but i was not satisfied with how it affected my grip and the pistol moved differently in recoil. I was having trouble centering the front sight in the rear, as well, so that made it slow and imprecise.
now, I just turn my head till my jaw touches my left shoulder/bicep. it works and is a great "index" that allows me to be more consistent and faster. as far as I can tell, the worst issue is I lose just that much peripheral vision on the right side.
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