View Full Version : All QD swivels created equal?
With so many QD swivels available, is any particular one really better than the others?
I’ve read about several instances where the button was inadvertently pressed, resulting in a dropped weapon. What do you guys prefer? Pronounced button, or recessed like the one offered my MI?: http://jupiter.digi-dial.com/midwestindustries/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=99
Some have a flatter loop, while others are more rounded. Any experiences with them bunching up a sling?
Any particular brands of note?
DD and Vltor seem to sell good ones. I have noticed a few slight compatibility issues, like Vltor swivels not locking into the CASV forearm, and I seem to remember something similar with either DD or Troy. It's been a couple years since I've run into it so I can't quite remember the details. And those issues may have been fixed by now.
CAA/TDI/whatever-they-call-themselves-today sells chinese made swivels. They're junk.
CAA/TDI/whatever-they-call-themselves-today sells chinese made swivels. They're junk.
I agree. U.S. only.
As many times as its been mentioned, I still can't work out how accidentally pushing the button in causes the QD to fall out.
I mean you'd have to have good strain on the sling and something slipped in between the sling loop and button and then depress the button to or even below the plain of the QD body.
Perhaps someone can reproduce it on video as I've tried and tried and tried doing it deliberately and it simply will not happen for me when trying several QDs of different make and a pile of sockets on diffrent stocks, forends, rail sections and loose unmounted sockets.
Just by pushing the button the QD will want to stay in the socket as thats the direction its being forced.
However some anti rotation sockets aren't finished so well in the groove and forcing QD rotation by sling tension or whatever will shove the locking bearings in which creates the same effect as pushing the button and allows the QD to pop right out.
Had a rail or two with that type socket and you could pop the QD out all day long without even touching
the button.
I'm of the belief that most pop outs are a result of faulty socket machine work (groove or anti rotation lumps in the groove) or improperly putting the QD in to begin with.
Of course there is the potential for plain old mechanical failure in the QD mechanism, but unless its being installed and removed many, many times a day for who knows how long or spinning one constantly with strain on the sling in a rotateable socket wear should not really be a factor.
Even if the bearings can completely come free once in the socket it still requires the center post to break or wear out in just the right spot to allow all 4 of the bearings to simultaniously retract into the QD body and release it from the socket.
I'd hazard the odds of ripping the sling loop off one are higher than having one wear to the point of failure unless the bearings or socket is really crap material.
All that being said, I have preference for the DD QDs as they at least look to be of significantly better and beefier construction than say Uncle Mike's
i hate the far right ones, in that link to MI. my favorite is the one on the left.
As many times as its been mentioned, I still can't work out how accidentally pushing the button in causes the QD to fall out.
Check out the post dated 12/24/10 on this thread: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2202139
This guy is a pro and he's using good quality equipment. And I've read other instances as well. I agree that it really requires the moon to turn purple and the stars aligning, but it does and has happened. If a simple act like choosing one swivel over another can make a difference, then why not?
On the other hand, I am probably making a mountain out of a molehill...
On the other hand, I am probably making a mountain out of a molehill...
I don't think so. Swivel qd things are garbage and have NO business on firearms.
Buttstock sling mounts are usually not an issue, but what do you recommend up front if stock sling swivel isn't present, there's no rail real estate, or you don't want to run a clanky dog collar hook?
Its been my experienced that the issue comes not from the QD swivel being inadvertently pressed, but from the mount simply pulling out of the they mounting point. The problem is all of the quality QD mounts are made of good high quality steel while some manufacturers choose to make the attachment points from aluminum. A steel mount will eventually wear an aluminum mount out leading to a less secure mount. I learned about this from reviewing testing done by a local manufacturer which now chooses to makes its attachment points from hardened steel which can be replaced.
That I can easily see and may explain my failure to make fail: all the sockets I tried were steel.
Quality differs, I have one MI one, it is harder to push in the QD and take it out. It feels gritty and tight.
Position is a big thing too. I have had a few Daniel Defense ones that I though were great quality, they were also anti rotation which I like a lot. But I didn't like how big they were and especially the position being at the 3 O'clock on the rail.
The Wilson Combat 10-2 QD is amazing. It is very well made, though not anti rotation which is to bad. The great things are its size, it is low profile, and only take up one and a half rails spaces. The best thing is where t puts the QD like its name it ends up in either the 10 o'clock or 2 o'clock position on an angle. I really love how the carbine hangs with it.
I Love it and as funds allow will up grade all my uppers with them.
Link: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/10_2-Quick-Detach-Swivel-Attachment-Rail-Mount/productinfo/TR%2D102SM/
I don't think so. Swivel qd things are garbage and have NO business on firearms.
Nonsense. While some are chinese crap, there are plenty US-produced versions that are well made. They're ideal for certain scenarios and are helpful. I don't always want a sling attached to my rifle and I like the convenience of the QD.
K.L. Davis
09-11-12, 00:00
Not at all created equal... once upon a time, most people bought swivels from a big name company, then that company was bought out and outsourced their product; the quality fell off drastically.
Now, there are a couple of companies that have their swivels made in house... and some sell them to other companies, make sure you are getting US made parts is the first part of making sure you are getting a good product.
I've had a DD QD swivel for 1 1/2 years or so that I first used on the Magpul MOE carbine hand guard with the DD swivel socket, then on the Troy rail with the built in swivel sockets.
I've had 4 occurrences where the QD decided to let go and the weapon had to be caught before taking a full on dive into the dirt. This happened while the weapon was just hanging on my chest and I was walking, while performing dry-runs and dry fires, while I was moving the weapon so to sling it on my back, and while it was on my back as I was walking.
Take it for what it is - 4 times in 1 1/2 years.
I've been looking for alternatives that are more secure, if there are such things.
I've had a DD QD swivel for 1 1/2 years or so that I first used on the Magpul MOE carbine hand guard with the DD swivel socket, then on the Troy rail with the built in swivel sockets.
I've had 4 occurrences where the QD decided to let go and the weapon had to be caught before taking a full on dive into the dirt. This happened while the weapon was just hanging on my chest and I was walking, while performing dry-runs and dry fires, while I was moving the weapon so to sling it on my back, and while it was on my back as I was walking.
Take it for what it is - 4 times in 1 1/2 years.
I've been looking for alternatives that are more secure, if there are such things.
See my previous post about Steel Swivels and Aluminum Mounts. Are both of the mounts you listed made of aluminum?
my rifle ate gravel after my sling let go. I ditched the qd crap that night.
Troy rail with the built in swivel sockets.
Anti rotation in a mountable rail section a'la Alpha etc.?
If so, that was one that I found could fairly consistantly cause the QD to pop out under rotational stress.
The 'turnstops' are more ramp than wall which aids in shoving the lock bearings in.
Well I was just about to order a DD QD swivel. Now you guys have me rethinking it. What would you guys suggest then besides the QDs? Or is their a "good" QD?
DD makes a quality QD. The key is making sure that you're attaching your quality QD swivel (which is made of steel) in to a quality mount also made of steel rather than aluminum.
I've actually got the recessed "heavy duty" QD that MI makes on one of my rifles and it seems to be real well made. Unlike most of the other QD swivels I've seen.
See my previous post about Steel Swivels and Aluminum Mounts. Are both of the mounts you listed made of aluminum?
The DD QD mount is aluminum. The attachment point in the Troy (MRF - RX 13.8) I don't know, probably aluminum since the rail is.
Who makes non aluminum attachment points (that are low profile)? Don't want to give up on the swivel yet.
DD makes a quality QD. The key is making sure that you're attaching your quality QD swivel (which is made of steel) in to a quality mount also made of steel rather than aluminum.
It would be going on their new M4V5 that comes with the attached QD slot next to the Castle Nut. I'd assume its steel but I haven't really looked at mine. Anyone know if it is or not?
It would be going on their new M4V5 that comes with the attached QD slot next to the Castle Nut. I'd assume its steel but I haven't really looked at mine. Anyone know if it is or not?
Their receiver end plate is a gangster crappy aluminum copy of a noveske end plate.
I've used DD with good luck.
:knock on wood:
I have been running the GG&G heavy duty QD swivels and have been extremely happy with them. They only come off when I fully depress them to detach them from my Samson Rail QD rail socket and receiver end plate.
I have a DD mount on my rifle, doing well so far but I've used the rifle so little it might as well be brand new.
I've recently moved the mount closer in towards the magwell to make room for my flashlight, but I am finding that I don't like how far out it sticks so I think I'll probably order the Troy mount that will go right in the slot on my VTAC Alpha handguard.
No issues with the Noveske QD receiver end plate either or the CTR stock.
Actually now that I remember, I had an M1200 Knight try to rip my VTAC sling off the rifle with the powered turret and the QD swivels and mounts held up (stock and DD) my swivels are DD and VLTOR.
With so many QD swivels available, is any particular one really better than the others?
Yes, cheap ones from China have shown to be problems.
TROY HD QD are GTG and seem to have the thickest sling loops that I've have seen in person so far.Agreed BEWARE of Chinese JUNK!
I use QD swivels exclusively. I never had an issue, but i ALWAYS check each swivel with each mount by inserting it and pulling firmly and shaking. If it comes out (happened once or twice with unknown make swivels) then i ditch the swivel.
For the most part, the reputable American companies like Troy, DD, VLTOR, etc make great swivels, though each do differ slightly.
quick thought: Im not saying a qd doesnt have a purpose...
But Its mosly just convenience for me, and I'd imagine a LOT of people. Replace the push button with a hex screw. No chance of it popping out, and it takes a tool and 20 seconds instead of 5 to release. That might be ideal for quite a few of us.
It would fit in the built in mounts, without the worry of popping out. Anyone have anything like this. yet?
They're ideal for certain scenarios and are helpful. I don't always want a sling attached to my rifle and I like the convenience of the QD.
But it's mosly just convenience for me, and I'd imagine a LOT of people. Replace the push button with a hex screw...
+1
I don't want/need a "quick" disconnect, but something less permanent than the USGI sling loops would be nice...
…hex screw... it takes a tool and 20 seconds instead of 5 to release...
1) It would take a tool and a place to store/carry it
1a) you might not be able to get at the tool and utilize it if trapped in an akward place or position with the only thing keeping you there being the sling
2) if you can readily screw it in using a tool and without the intent being a semi-permanant fixure, it can readily unscrew itself without a tool. Usually at the most inconvenient time possible
3) OD to OD, up at the area where the mount comes clear of the socket a threaded fixture is inherantly weaker in shear than the a QD has there
4) threaded fixtures that are in constant on off use tend to wear the threads over time making for looser engagement, and there is always the chance of cross threading regardless of age/wear
5) the stress of torquing the fixture tight and loose will work at whatever is holding the socket in place and eventually break it loose/out, like epoxy in a stock body, unless such is directly machined into a component, like a socket in a rail.
1) It would take a tool and a place to store/carry it
1a) you might not be able to get at the tool and utilize it if trapped in an akward place or position with the only thing keeping you there being the sling
2) if you can readily screw it in using a tool and without the intent being a semi-permanant fixure, it can readily unscrew itself without a tool. Usually at the most inconvenient time possible
3) OD to OD, up at the area where the mount comes clear of the socket a threaded fixture is inherantly weaker in shear than the a QD has there
4) threaded fixtures that are in constant on off use tend to wear the threads over time making for looser engagement, and there is always the chance of cross threading regardless of age/wear
5) the stress of torquing the fixture tight and loose will work at whatever is holding the socket in place and eventually break it loose/out, like epoxy in a stock body, unless such is directly machined into a component, like a socket in a rail.
For #1a... really?
for everything else: Im not drawing up plans, I was relaying a concept. Also, we are not picturing the same thing.
DD makes a quality QD. The key is making sure that you're attaching your quality QD swivel (which is made of steel) in to a quality mount also made of steel rather than aluminum.
This statement somewhat contradicts itself. I agree that DD makes quality and I will concede that steel on steel is probably a better idea than a steel QD in an aluminum socket/mount.
That being said it seems that most people are focusing on the DD aluminum endplate mount vs the Noveske steel one. There are however a slew of DD rails out there; both OmegaX and now the new DDM4 rail; that have built in QD sockets. While I haven't looked super close, I'm pretty sure the socket is just cut into the aluminum rail and doesn't have a steel insert and I haven't heard of a rash of peoples slings falling out of their rails.
For #1a... really? yes, really.
To get an idea, watch someone who has a rifle back slung hang off the side of a vehicle, wall or fence by armpit and neck when something got caught as they went over.
for everything else: Im not drawing up plans, I was relaying a concept. Also, we are not picturing the same thing.
I imagine probably not.
Would ask for scribble drawings but don't want to drag the thread too far off the path so will do without.
Not everyone will be doing the same things. You are insinuating that 1 I dont carry a knife 100% of the time, and 2, Im going to be chasing people over fences and such, and 3 that qd mounts are the end-all must-have sling mount. As I said, like everything else, there is a time and place. For what I do, I dont want a push button qd. Hell, even having a cover over the button so you need a bullet to push it would be a plus. I'll probably get QD to utilize the mounts, but I would prefer a more permenant style attatchment. I might fix something up with it.
You can make up a scenario to justify anything if you want - that doesnt mean everyone who doesnt do it is ill-informed.
Im done here as I dont want to derail any further.
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