View Full Version : Trade up?
Back in 06 I built myself an M4 clone. The upper is an Eagle Arms (Armalite) M15 with a 16" chrome lined barrel and a carry handle (1:9 twist). The lower is Rock River Arms with a Rock River parts kit and Rock River adjustable M4 style stock.
In 08, before the elections I picked myself up an AMD-65 AK.
I am thinking of consolidating everything on an AR. Preferably going flat top, adding an optic, and a 1:7 twist to fire the heavier ammunition. Would I be better off selling both guns and buying a SIG/Colt (maybe even a piston gun), or selling my upper and buying a new flat top upper?
What is the general consensus on the RRA/Eagle combo vs. what I could buy if I sold both (Colt/SIG)?
Alternatively I could buy an adapter and put an optic on the carry handle...
Guns-up.50
09-10-12, 15:05
If it were me I would sell both and get a colt, optics on carry handles are not my first choice nor is sig...
fallenromeo
09-10-12, 15:16
You won't hear much praise for piston guns on this site. Also, RRA is not highly regarded here as well. However, for the lower, as long as it is in spec, it shouldn't make that much of a difference. I have no opinion on Eagle or Armalite as I have no experience with either of them. But I throw my vote in for getting the Colt.
MrRightWing
09-10-12, 15:28
If you're happy with your rifle, I would just get a new upper. That way you come out keeping the AK. 2 guns > 1 gun :D
Sell both, get a Colt, Aimpoint, Light, Sling, Mags, Ammo.
If you're area is anything like mine, folks will still pay you $1000 for your RRA/Eagle. Then, you can buy a new Colt 6920 from Grant for $1050. The proceeds from the AK fund the Aimpoint and other accessories.:D
No doubt, sell them and go for the Colt and Aimpoint as mentioned. You could also get a BCM upper and lower for around the same $. Once you get the quality AR you will probably lose interest in the AK anyway, or at least I did!
You won't hear much praise for piston guns on this site. Also, RRA is not highly regarded here as well. However, for the lower, as long as it is in spec, it shouldn't make that much of a difference. I have no opinion on Eagle or Armalite as I have no experience with either of them. But I throw my vote in for getting the Colt.
Thanks all. The only reason I threw the piston gun out there is b/c I saw the SEALs went from M4's to the HK 416. I figured they must have had their reasons, but then again, I am not a SEAL. That being said, the only problem I ever had with my AR was with Radway Green SS109. I think the gas pressure curve for the British bull-pups must be different or something. Everything else I have loaded has fired without a hitch.
The HK would be a stretch for me $$$ wise though, and the idea of a genuine Colt for $1,050 sounds pretty good...
I believe the piston SIG can be had for around $1,600.
I am curious to see why RRA gets such a bad rap.
Just do a search on Rock River hear and you should find out all you need to know.
I would go a different way. I would keep the AK and either sell your complete AR or your upper and replace with Colt.
Sell both, get a Colt, Aimpoint, Light, Sling, Mags, Ammo.
If you're area is anything like mine, folks will still pay you $1000 for your RRA/Eagle. Then, you can buy a new Colt 6920 from Grant for $1050. The proceeds from the AK fund the Aimpoint and other accessories.:D
+1. Do this.
Two things to add.
1) The search function is your friend brother. You can find tons of good info from knowledgable folks on what AR to buy and which ARs to stay away from.
2) Trading up is never a bad idea IMHO, especially after you have gained some experience shooting the platform and know more or less what you do and don't want in a rifle. With that being said, if you're going to trade up, actually make it work your while and money, and get a well made rifle. Daniel Defense, Colt, and BCM come to mind to name a few. Don't just get a rifle that is only slightly better than the one you currently have, otherwise you'll be doing this all over again in a few months or years.
Buy once cry once my friend.
Thanks all. The only reason I threw the piston gun out there is b/c I saw the SEALs went from M4's to the HK 416. I figured they must have had their reasons, but then again, I am not a SEAL. That being said, the only problem I ever had with my AR was with Radway Green SS109. I think the gas pressure curve for the British bull-pups must be different or something. Everything else I have loaded has fired without a hitch.
The HK would be a stretch for me $$$ wise though, and the idea of a genuine Colt for $1,050 sounds pretty good...
I believe the piston SIG can be had for around $1,600.
I am curious to see why RRA gets such a bad rap.
they do have their reasons for the piston - HK416. it's called sustained automatic fire and suppressor use. if you don't see yourself with exactly their mission profile, you might want to reassess your needs. lots of well respected folks have the opinion that DI is perfectly suitable for whatever you need...
If your rifle is working fine, I see no real reason to get rid of it. Sounds like all you need is a new upper receiver and a new barrel of your choice. It would be a whole lot cheaper, and selling the used parts should offset the cost involved. Check Wal Mart's selection and prices of AR's. They actually stock some good ones and many others can be ordered there.
fallenromeo
09-11-12, 11:44
Thanks all. The only reason I threw the piston gun out there is b/c I saw the SEALs went from M4's to the HK 416. I figured they must have had their reasons, but then again, I am not a SEAL. That being said, the only problem I ever had with my AR was with Radway Green SS109. I think the gas pressure curve for the British bull-pups must be different or something. Everything else I have loaded has fired without a hitch.
The HK would be a stretch for me $$$ wise though, and the idea of a genuine Colt for $1,050 sounds pretty good...
I believe the piston SIG can be had for around $1,600.
I am curious to see why RRA gets such a bad rap.
If you could get your hands on a HK 416 then that would probably be forgivable. Unfortunately, if you went the piston route, you would probably end up with a Sig or LWRCi which is just overpriced garbage. Save yourself the money and don't. RRA gets a bad rap because they have a history of putting out inferior products.
So I have searched around here regarding RRA, and it seems like opinions are definitely mixed.
I don't have any problem with my Armalite upper, but I would like a 1:7 twist and flat top for optics.
A few folks here say buy a new rifle, and a few say recycle the RRA lower.
The lower is RRA with full RRA parts kit, including an RRA adjustable stock. Acknowledging that a Colt or other high-quality upper is the way to go, it will be significantly cheaper for me to recycle my lower (avoid FFL fees, etc.).
Is there anything inferior or different about the RRA lower (compared to Colt, etc.) that would cause me to scrap the whole thing and get a new rifle?
I tried to search about a bit for this, but most RRA comments (positive and negative) focused on either uppers or complete guns.
MrRightWing
09-11-12, 12:40
The lower is RRA with full RRA parts kit, including an RRA adjustable stock. Acknowledging that a Colt or other high-quality upper is the way to go, it will be significantly cheaper for me to recycle my lower (avoid FFL fees, etc.).
Is there anything inferior or different about the RRA lower (compared to Colt, etc.) that would cause me to scrap the whole thing and get a new rifle?
I tried to search about a bit for this, but most RRA comments (positive and negative) focused on either uppers or complete guns.
If anything, just replace the LPK. A stripped lower is a stripped lower. It doesn't really matter who manufactures it (as long as it fits your upper). If your lower currently runs fine, all I have to say is if it aint broke, don't fix it.
So I have searched around here regarding RRA, and it seems like opinions are definitely mixed.
I don't have any problem with my Armalite upper, but I would like a 1:7 twist and flat top for optics.
A few folks here say buy a new rifle, and a few say recycle the RRA lower.
The lower is RRA with full RRA parts kit, including an RRA adjustable stock. Acknowledging that a Colt or other high-quality upper is the way to go, it will be significantly cheaper for me to recycle my lower (avoid FFL fees, etc.).
Is there anything inferior or different about the RRA lower (compared to Colt, etc.) that would cause me to scrap the whole thing and get a new rifle?
I tried to search about a bit for this, but most RRA comments (positive and negative) focused on either uppers or complete guns.
As long as your lower is in spec then all is well, I would say the same for the lpk too. The reason I suggested selling it is because you might fetch a better price selling the gun as a whole, and make near the cost to buy the complete Colt. The whole gun should sell quicker and better then if it were parted out, considering who ever buys it will probably have it as there first AR.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-11-12, 13:53
Your AK is your piston gun!
I'd sell the upper or whole AR and replace it with something of more quality. Like said above 2 guns are better than 1. Here's a thought, (going against the grain) Sell the AR and build up your amd-65.
Buy a krebs adaptor block and use AR stocks on it. I love mine since that mod. Either way I think everyone seems to agree that selling at least the upper/rifle would be a great idea.
Thanks everyone for the advice!
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I say, keep the AK and sell your upper. I'd look at buying PSA upper and throw it on your RRA lower. PSA is always having a sale on their 1 to 7 twist uppers and they always have flat tops for optics.
Spend the rest on ammo and optics.
Your AK is your piston gun!
The AR also has a piston
TacticalSledgehammer
09-12-12, 00:20
The AR also has a piston
You talking about one of the piston systems? Not a DI gun, right?
Dirtyboy333
09-12-12, 00:34
You talking about one of the piston systems? Not a DI gun, right?
no, he's saying that the bolt/BCG in a normal DI AR is the piston/cylinder setup. The piston is just relocated. Don't think to hard about it. For all general purposes the AR is not considered a piston gun.
TacticalSledgehammer
09-12-12, 02:26
Oh ok one of those wise guys huh? J/k
:cool:
no, he's saying that the bolt/BCG in a normal DI AR is the piston/cylinder setup. The piston is just relocated. Don't think to hard about it. For all general purposes the AR is not considered a piston gun.
How can an AR have an operating piston and not be considered a piston system? Actually, how can the AR be a direct impingement system? What does the gas directly impinge on? What did Eugene Stoner identify the system as?
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ETJjAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
RRA isn't exactly the cream of the crop, but as long as you have a lower parts kit that is in spec, fits well in the lower and has no defects you should be ok. I have no experience at all with Armalite, but I'd definitely recommend a high quality upper like a BCM, DD, Colt, etc.
Id say save up a little coin, and plus the sale of your upper you could get a new one and keep the AK.
Dirtyboy333
09-12-12, 13:36
How can an AR have an operating piston and not be considered a piston system? Actually, how can the AR be a direct impingement system? What does the gas directly impinge on? What did Eugene Stoner identify the system as?
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ETJjAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
I understand all of that and Im agreeing with you. I know the AR has a "piston". Most systems actually have a deticated piston not a piston that doubles as the bolt. and the gas impinges on the bolt.
Speaking generally about guns the AR is not consi
TacticalSledgehammer
09-12-12, 18:00
Are you all calling the gas key or bcg the piston? Don't pistons usually have rings?
To prevent further derailing of this thread, I started another to discuss the AR piston
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1393199#post1393199
My apologies for getting off track in the first place
To prevent further derailing of this thread, I started another to discuss the AR piston
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1393199#post1393199
My apologies for getting off track in the first place
Please dont apologize, i learned something.
I could keep everything and afford to get a PSA "m4 madness" upper, use my armalite bcg, and get the eotech. Is that a pretty high quality solution or still no?
Fwiw, the armalite gas key is pretty well staked... dont know much else about the quality of the bcg though...
If the answer to a reliable combat ready rifle is "just get a colt", thats fine too...
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Please dont apologize, i learned something.
I could keep everything and afford to get a PSA "m4 madness" upper, use my armalite bcg, and get the eotech. Is that a pretty high quality solution or still no?
Fwiw, the armalite gas key is pretty well staked... dont know much else about the quality of the bcg though...
If the answer to a reliable combat ready rifle is "just get a colt", thats fine too...
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Ok, then "just get a Colt".
Understand, the biggest reason Colt gets so much love here is bang for the buck. $1050 for a 6920 cannot be beat when measuring other rifles part for part. Are there better guns, probably, but by the time you would get the majority to agree on what would be "better" than the 6920, you've more than likely doubled the price.
It is what it is man, just embrace it. If you're not ready to go all in, then keep what you have and save until you are. Upgrading, as you put it, will cost you exponentially more if done multiple times in small increments.
To be honest, if someone doesn't shoot much and they don't have any plans to increase their firing schedule, then it doesn't make any difference what rifle they have. A DPMS that never comes out of the safe is just as good as a Colt that never comes out of the safe. Not saying this is your situation, just sayin' because it's the truth.
If you just want something better just to have something better, I totally get that and say go for it, but make it worth your time and definitely worth the money.
.
If you could get your hands on a HK 416 then that would probably be forgivable. Unfortunately, if you went the piston route, you would probably end up with a Sig or LWRCi which is just overpriced garbage. Save yourself the money and don't. RRA gets a bad rap because they have a history of putting out inferior products.
Yes, the Sig is garbage but LWRCI builds a very nice rifle. Stop spreading BS when you have no personal experience to back it up. LWRCI is not the same company today that it was when they had an owner who actively allowed astro turfing. The quality of their rifles speak for themselves and they don't deserve the bad wrap they get here based on something this company had nothing to do with.
OP, keep the AK, sell the Frankenstein upper, buy a Colt, LMT, DD etc that suites your needs then and then get some quality training on your gun.
I had a p229 pistol that was excellent. I am surprised their rifles have a bad rep.
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Keep what you've got and buy another. If you can't afford to buy a complete rifle get the upper like you said, but also pick up a stripped lower somewhere for later on.
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