View Full Version : Trust for just 1 SBR & 1 Can? Worth it?
The last few days I've been researching the idea of a trust vs individual for my SBR. I haven't bought anything or started the process, other than picking out parts for the SBR ha!
Anyway I don't forsee me buying 10 sbr, 15 cans, etc etc. That being said, is a trust worth the extra money just for 1 rifle and can?
The main thing that interests me on the trust is the ability for my wife to be able to move, shoot, handle, etc the SBR without any issues if I'm not around.
So is a trust worth the extra money just for 1 rifle and 1 can?
NoveskeFan
09-10-12, 20:15
I went the Individual route with my SBR, but am thinking of getting a trust now. You get a lot more flexibility with the trust. The trust lets you name trustees, so you don't have to be the sole person "in control" of the weapon. It also covers your items after death, so your family isn't suddenly in possession of illegal firearms. Also, if you get the itch to add something later, you don't need the CLEO signature, etc.
saddlerocker
09-10-12, 20:20
I wish I had done a trust instead of individual.
Not only because im now planning to get more than 1 can and 1 SBR (My original plan too), but because getting fingerprints and CLEO signature is a PITA.
Its tough for me to get to the police station during their hours and when an officer that can take the prints is actually there.
And im pretty sure my Form 4 for my suppressor is going to get kicked back because they stamped the Sheriff's signature and a Sergent signed the paperwork. (they said thats how there doing it now, so maybe itll be ok)
So, in hindsight I wish I spent the $200 or whatever for a trust.
Not to mention I could have put my Dad and Brother on it, which would be nice.
Yes. It's kind of like buying a gun safe. Always get one larger than you think you need. You will add to it later even if you don't think so now. As mentioned it makes life MUCH easier on your next of kin should you depart this world.
The main thing that interests me on the trust is the ability for my wife to be able to move, shoot, handle, etc the SBR without any issues if I'm not around.
If that's what you want then yes.
If you're gonna go for it, go all the way. I vote trust.
I have 2owers done on the form 1, for my 3rd I was going to do the trust.
Anyone know if I can add the previous 2 onto the new trust?
Trunkmonkey4
09-10-12, 22:45
You would have to transfer them into the trust, i.e. do the whole NFA circus again.
I have 2 form 1's and a form 4 to my name right now, I added them when I was 18. I plan on setting up a trust threw my father so I can add a can or two from a dealer.
If I could do it again I would do a trust from the get go.
The trust is worth it just for the reasons you mentioned. In addition if you are away for any reason she can also conduct purchases and other business as she is a trustee.
I also like the satisfaction of not notifying everyone of my purchases and have to wait for someone to sign off.
Taprackngo
09-10-12, 23:44
I formed a Trust a few years ago for a can, then another, then another and I just sent off for a Surefire MINI and my first SBR. I think it's well worth it for my family.
I wish I had done a trust instead of individual.
Not only because im now planning to get more than 1 can and 1 SBR (My original plan too), but because getting fingerprints and CLEO signature is a PITA.
Its tough for me to get to the police station during their hours and when an officer that can take the prints is actually there.
And im pretty sure my Form 4 for my suppressor is going to get kicked back because they stamped the Sheriff's signature and a Sergent signed the paperwork. (they said thats how there doing it now, so maybe itll be ok)
So, in hindsight I wish I spent the $200 or whatever for a trust.
Not to mention I could have put my Dad and Brother on it, which would be nice.
This pretty much sums up my feelings.
FWIW, I started out with similar plans as the OP. One can for 5.56 and one in 9mm, now I'm up to four stamps total and wish that I would've taken the time to get a trust set up. Huge PITA to drive downtown for fingerprints and CLEO sig.
The trust is worth it for 1 SBR or a million items. MUCH LESS ass ache.
Now if you're foolish and pay an attorney a ridiculous amount to set it up, then you're starting to get into the not worth it arena.
I went the LLC route. It was easier and cheaper to establish an LLC in my state than tinkering around with a Trust.
I also don't have all those screwy schedules to fill out or assigning trustees....
filthy phil
09-12-12, 17:24
I went the LLC route. It was easier and cheaper to establish an LLC in my state than tinkering around with a Trust.
I also don't have all those screwy schedules to fill out or assigning trustees....
dont you have to file taxes every year?
the llc I did required it, (Tx) regardless if the corp. made money or not
everyusernametaken
09-12-12, 17:42
dont you have to file taxes every year?
the llc I did required it, (Tx) regardless if the corp. made money or not
This was my understanding as well. At least in VA, there is an ongoing need to report certain info about the corporation. No such hassle with trusts.
Trust. mainly for the reason that my family is not left with illegal firearms if I pass. The not having to worry about a LEO sign off is a big plus.
I went the LLC route. It was easier and cheaper to establish an LLC in my state than tinkering around with a Trust.
I also don't have all those screwy schedules to fill out or assigning trustees....
Neither of which should be much of an issue...
Your Schedule A gets each item added as you put it in the trust, but you don't have to 'file' anything when adding items, and you can add an unlimited number of items.
As for amending your trust to add/remove people, that shouldn't be something you have to deal with very often, and you have to add/remove them from the LLC as the situation dictates any way, so it really isn't any better. But you do have to do the tax paperwork every year, and (in most states) pay fees every year since it is corp....
Too many benefits to a Trust to go any other route. Only $199.00 :secret:
http://bunkerlawgroup.com/practice-areas-2/nevada-nfa-class3-classiii-gun-trusts-lawyer/
Too many benefits to a Trust to go any other route. Only $199.00 :secret:
http://bunkerlawgroup.com/practice-areas-2/nevada-nfa-class3-classiii-gun-trusts-lawyer/
$199 is a little steep in my opinion.... unless you're making a trust for REAL assets.
All you have to do is put the right names in the right places.... and the Schedule A is a separate sheet.
Just my .02.
I originally went the individual route but am thinking about going with a Trust for future purchases. Can I add my present individual SBR and Can into the Trust in the future?
Yeah... 199.00 was the best I found. Others wanted 600.00 to 1000.00. It seems like many here just use Quicken Willmaker; other folks say Quicken and alike can be a problem with NFA which is why I opted for the 1-time 199.00 trust. Like you said.... other options exist.
Cheers!
I originally went the individual route but am thinking about going with a Trust for future purchases. Can I add my present individual SBR and Can into the Trust in the future?
It would mean a transfer from you to the trust.
TrenchArtisan
09-17-12, 09:45
Trust. mainly for the reason that my family is not left with illegal firearms if I pass. The not having to worry about a LEO sign off is a big plus.
This is exactly why I wanted one.
This is exactly why I wanted one.
Weapons wouldn't be illegal unless they were illegal when you were alive.
You can will individually owned guns to your family members with no transfer fee.
All that said... no one cares after you have the stamp in your hand. I don't give a crap about my stuff after I'm gone. I just have a handful of NFA stuff though.
(I guess if I had a couple of expensive Machine guns, I'd be more likely to worry about having stuff in order... but for cans and SBRs, I don't care)
Weapons wouldn't be illegal unless they were illegal when you were alive.
You can will individually owned guns to your family members with no transfer fee.
I think the point made was that if your wife/kid/etc. is listed on the trust, nothing changes when you die (well, regarding the NFA stuff...). If it's on an individual Form they'll have to get one in their name before taking possession. So technically they would be illegal until they have paperwork in-hand.
Can I form a trust without having anything to put on it at the moment, just for the future? And did any of you guys use Arsenal Attornies?
everyusernametaken
09-17-12, 19:37
Can I form a trust without having anything to put on it at the moment, just for the future? And did any of you guys use Arsenal Attornies?
You can establish a trust with $1 or whatever you have of any value. Mine declared an initial $10 contribution, but that isn't a minimum value.
Matthew Bergstrom at Arsenal Attorneys is a good choice for NFA trust work in our area (northern VA). I won't state that you should or should not deal with a lawyer to create a trust, as that is a call you need to make yourself. I will say that the trusts that Matthew creates are more involved than just a simple declaration of trust. The guys at Virginia Arms know him too, and also have good things to say about him.
You can establish a trust with $1 or whatever you have of any value. Mine declared an initial $10 contribution, but that isn't a minimum value.
Matthew Bergstrom at Arsenal Attorneys is a good choice for NFA trust work in our area (northern VA). I won't state that you should or should not deal with a lawyer to create a trust, as that is a call you need to make yourself. I will say that the trusts that Matthew creates are more involved than just a simple declaration of trust. The guys at Virginia Arms know him too, and also have good things to say about him.
Thanks. I like that shop and since my knowledge on the subject is pretty much only what's here, I'd probably go through him just be safe.
dont you have to file taxes every year?
the llc I did required it, (Tx) regardless if the corp. made money or not
In my state, I don't have to do anything but add it in to my personal taxes. I have a sole proprietorship LLC.
Army Chief
09-24-12, 12:38
Matthew Bergstrom at Arsenal Attorneys is a good choice for NFA trust work in our area (northern VA). I won't state that you should or should not deal with a lawyer to create a trust, as that is a call you need to make yourself. I will say that the trusts that Matthew creates are more involved than just a simple declaration of trust.
I'll have (much) more to say about this in the near future, but Bergstrom is absolutely the best thing going right now when it comes to establishing a competent trust that will stand the test of time. He's not set up to provide services in every state as yet, but his fees are reasonable and his approach to how the trusts are crafted is absolutely light years beyond anything else I've seen out there -- professionally-prepared or not.
I spoke with him at-length last week about what he's doing, where the company is headed, and the unique advantages afforded by the unique trust documents that he has devised, and was sufficiently impressed as to commission a new trust of my own.
AC
I'll have (much) more to say about this in the near future, but Bergstrom is absolutely the best thing going right now when it comes to establishing a competent trust that will stand the test of time. He's not set up to provide services in every state as yet, but his fees are reasonable and his approach to how the trusts are crafted is absolutely light years beyond anything else I've seen out there -- professionally-prepared or not.
I spoke with him at-length last week about what he's doing, where the company is headed, and the unique advantages afforded by the unique trust documents that he has devised, and was sufficiently impressed as to commission a new trust of my own.
AC
Well now I really want to talk with him and get one going.
I know this thread is a bit old, but fwiw, I didn't even think for a minute and created a trust for my first nfa item (an sbr). I really thought it would be the only nfa item I would ever buy.
Not even a month went by and I decided to add a suppressor to the sbr. Had I already sent the form 4 with as an individual, I would now be stuck with the sbr under an individual and the rest (yes, I couldn't stop at just one suppressor... You won't either!) under a trust.
The trust, imho, is worth every cent of the 200 it cost me.
The time off work alone to get the cleo signatures would have cost me more than the cost of the trust!
$199 is a little steep in my opinion.... unless you're making a trust for REAL assets.
All you have to do is put the right names in the right places.... and the Schedule A is a separate sheet.
Just my .02.
How much did you pay Mark and who did you use?
I had an attorney create my trust with my first Title II purchase& several more acquisitions since. My good friend went the Quicken route & has not had a problem. He has added many items since.
How much did you pay Mark and who did you use?
Have you talked to a lawyer about an estate planning trust?
$199 won't even get a page from one....
You do NOT want to put NFA items in a standard Living Trust. The reason is that an NFA trust has specific wording that deals with firearms and NFA items. You can put non-NFA and non-firearms items in an NFA trust, but you would be foolish to put NFA items into a non-NFA trust.
Having created numerous NFA trusts (I use the same exact forms software as most law firms use) I know what I am talking about. The Schedule A is required by the BATFE when you send a copy of your trust to them. Also, I agree that $600 is ridiculous since you also have to spend $200 to transfer each item into the trust. That means to get one item into a trust you spend $800. What could you buy with $800? You can almost buy an entire BCM M4.
I charge my friends and family $100 to prepare the documents. No I do not use Quicken. I use professional legal software because I use it for my side business in creating legal documents for my own use. I charge only to help offset the cost of the license software. It is $1300 annually.
Yes the trusts I create are identical to any Lawyer (even GunTrustLawyer.com) and each trust I do is setup for the State with which you reside in. Each State is different in their Trust laws. So each Trust must be setup with that in mind.
I trust is the best way to own NFA items. It allows you to list all your family members over the age of 21 as owner (trustee) and when you pass, nothing changes. The firearms are still within the Trust. Some states have limitations on the length a Trust can exist unless specific wording is in place. Other States limit it to 99 years regardless.
So if you are looking to establish an NFA Trust and want the same thing your local Attorney would provide, but for only $100, then Let me know via PM.
Disclaimer: I am not an Attorney-at-law and I cannot provide any legal advice. I am not a substitute for an attorney.
This is a great thread with some good info. I am interested in getting an SBR and from the sound of it, for my own comfort, I think I will spring for a lawyer to do the trust. No I don't want to spend a lot of money but I don't want it denied or to have something go wrong. Yes, more research is needed.
You do NOT want to put NFA items in a standard Living Trust. The reason is that an NFA trust has specific wording that deals with firearms and NFA items. You can put non-NFA and non-firearms items in an NFA trust, but you would be foolish to put NFA items into a non-NFA trust.
Having created numerous NFA trusts (I use the same exact forms software as most law firms use) I know what I am talking about. The Schedule A is required by the BATFE when you send a copy of your trust to them. Also, I agree that $600 is ridiculous since you also have to spend $200 to transfer each item into the trust. That means to get one item into a trust you spend $800. What could you buy with $800? You can almost buy an entire BCM M4.
I charge my friends and family $100 to prepare the documents. No I do not use Quicken. I use professional legal software because I use it for my side business in creating legal documents for my own use. I charge only to help offset the cost of the license software. It is $1300 annually.
Yes the trusts I create are identical to any Lawyer (even GunTrustLawyer.com) and each trust I do is setup for the State with which you reside in. Each State is different in their Trust laws. So each Trust must be setup with that in mind.
I trust is the best way to own NFA items. It allows you to list all your family members over the age of 21 as owner (trustee) and when you pass, nothing changes. The firearms are still within the Trust. Some states have limitations on the length a Trust can exist unless specific wording is in place. Other States limit it to 99 years regardless.
So if you are looking to establish an NFA Trust and want the same thing your local Attorney would provide, but for only $100, then Let me know via PM.
Disclaimer: I am not an Attorney-at-law and I cannot provide any legal advice. I am not a substitute for an attorney.
as active duty mil, would you recommend the trust route since I move from state to state every few yrs?
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