View Full Version : US Ambassador to Libya, Two Marines Killed...
Spurholder
09-12-12, 06:23
along with another consulate staffer during an attack on the Benghazi consulate late last evening.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-ambassador-libya-three-staff-killed-rocket-attack-091505030.html
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-12-12, 06:42
Semper Fi
Oh and libya, this is the thanks we get? Another vote for a return to isolationism.
Business_Casual
09-12-12, 07:03
If we fail to respond to this, and if we couch this in language such as "the Libyans aren't responsible, this was a rouge group" and other equivocation, fasten your seat belts. These insults (Egypt) are a grave issue and the administration needs to take them seriously, IMO. Failure to show strength will be interpreted very differently in their culture, no matter how much "restraint" we think we are showing.
bc
They got upset over this retarded dump-on-film?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6yGzpSvjU
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 08:09
They got upset over this retarded dump-on-film?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6yGzpSvjU
Yup.
http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2012/09/and-dull-roar-of-anger.html
No where, has any outlet reported that Marines were killed.
They got upset over this retarded dump-on-film?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6yGzpSvjU
Radical Islam will use any excuse to get their dander up and commit violence. During the Arab Spring, they didn't like us, they just liked our drone strikes.
Reagans Rascals
09-12-12, 08:34
I know there was a reason we made the neutron bomb... I just know there was... right?
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 08:45
No where, has any outlet reported that Marines were killed.
http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/316600/update-reports-us-ambassador-two-marines-and-one-other-american-killed-benghazi#
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 08:51
Sounds like FAST is en route. Lots of things to be angry about in this article.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/libya-assault-on-u.s-consulate-in-benghazi-leaves-4-dead-including-u.s-ambassador-j-christopher-stevens/
Apparently there was some sort of apology offered by the US embassy regarding this film just before the attack when it was clear that the filthy mindless masses were becoming upset.
Reagans Rascals
09-12-12, 08:54
I second the call for the Monroe Doctrine Return....
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 08:54
Apparently there was some sort of apology offered by the US embassy regarding this film just before the attack when it was clear that the filthy mindless masses were becoming upset.
Yup, we apologized for the First Amendment abuses of our citizens. The First Amendment is fine except when people are offended.
Yup, we apologized for the First Amendment abuses of our citizens. The First Amendment is fine except when people are offended.
I disagreed with the pastor who just wanted to burn korans to incite while putting our troops in harm's way, but this is different. If we can't make educational films in our own country then we need to start causing mass casualties in the muslim world right away to keep the animals in line. Then we outlaw Islam in this country to show we mean it, because it does us absolutely no good whatsoever to condone the slop here. Put it in a social category with child marriage in the name of religion and be done with it.
We need to stop worrying about earning respect and start causing a deep sense of fear among them all. Can't worry about hurting the good ones anymore, the problem is becoming too serious and they aren't worried about us.
Semper Fi
Oh and libya, this is the thanks we get? Another vote for a return to isolationism.
+1. Blowback anyone?
Doc Safari
09-12-12, 09:32
The really, really sad aspect to all of this is that Barry O has been on the phone all morning asking Jimmy Carter his advice.
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 09:33
Well, we obviously cannot buy respect or any semblance thereof so why continue the welfare? I don't care if it was a film about Islam, someone burning a book, or even gay porn; it was an act by a citizen in our country and it's protected by the First Amendment.
In fact, I wish they were offended by gay porn made in the US. Our "friends" across the world killing US citizens over gay porn made in the US would make more US citizens angry than some Islamophobes' actions and perhaps might raise awareness as to how futile it is to attempt to buy "friendship" with these third world shitholes. And the net net would be "respect the right of freedom of speech for US citizens."
Well, we obviously cannot buy respect or any semblance thereof so why continue the welfare? I don't care if it was a film about Islam, someone burning a book, or even gay porn; it was an act by a citizen in our country and it's protected by the First Amendment.
In fact, I wish they were offended by gay porn made in the US. Our "friends" across the world killing US citizens over gay porn made in the US would make more US citizens angry than some Islamophobes' actions and perhaps might raise awareness as to how futile it is to attempt to buy "friendship" with these third world shitholes. And the net net would be "respect the right of freedom of speech for US citizens."
This. The gay liberals would maybe understand that Islam doesn't tolerate gays and in some places, even beheads them, just for being gay. Instead of supporting restrictions on the first amendment that offends.
They got upset over this retarded dump-on-film?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6yGzpSvjU
Almost EVERYTHING, it seems, is offensive to islam. period.
If we fail to respond to this, and if we couch this in language such as "the Libyans aren't responsible, this was a rouge group" and other equivocation, fasten your seat belts. These insults (Egypt) are a grave issue and the administration needs to take them seriously, IMO. Failure to show strength will be interpreted very differently in their culture, no matter how much "restraint" we think we are showing.
bc
Has anyone stopped to think about what's really going on over there? We've seen two governments that I would categorize as friendly to the US, toppled with assistance from our own government. Then we stand idly by while they raid our embassies and kill American citizens. Meanwhile, we sit on the sidelines while Syria murders thousands and their government retains power. Maybe this is exactly what the administration wants, chaos and Muslim rule for the entire region. As soon as we pull out of AFG and Iraq, they will fall into chaos as well. Soon we won't have a single ally in the region, except for Israel. We're not exactly showing strong support for them, are we? Just an observation.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-12-12, 13:28
A burning Koran and the only thing to put it out is a bucket of pigs blood.
When are these mythical 'pro-western' arabs going to take out the trash in their midst. Sorry to say it, but you are going to have this bullshit till they have their own version of the Thirty Years War and you cull the 15% of the population that are hard-core believers.
crusader377
09-12-12, 13:39
In the long term I think we should get out of the Middle East.
For the short term, although it would never happen under this President, I would love to see the president give the Libyan's an ultimatum to hand over the attackers of the embassy to U.S. custody within 48 hours or receive punitive air and naval strikes against Libya. I think we should take a firm stance with them but give them a chance to make things right, even though I think some airstrikes would be good for them.
Dirk Williams
09-12-12, 13:45
Don't hold your breath on that one.
DW
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 14:05
This. The gay liberals would maybe understand that Islam doesn't tolerate gays and in some places, even beheads them, just for being gay. Instead of supporting restrictions on the first amendment that offends.
I think the gays are well aware but the other liberals don't seem to care where they get their gasoline from so long as it's not in their backyards.
Now the new leader of Egypt is calling for more anti-American protests tomorrow. Anyone remember who Archduke Ferdinand was?
We're already in Afghanistan and Iraq, Israel is ready to go. I think we should bomb Pakistan into submission, take over all oil reserves in the three countries and begin to take control of the future of this world before the hateful fanatics decide our fates for us. Remember that these maniacs are only going to be kept nuclear free for so long, eventually they will have what they need to reach us here.
We would need the Europeans and India to be with us for it to work in the long run, no doubt. But with rising tensions regarding muslims worse there than here, it just might work if presented properly. Russia has it's own islam problems and would be unlikely to stand against all of us to support muslims.
Sound crazy or unrealistic? To me, so is hoping that if we just retreat to within our shores the rest of the world will leave us alone because we want it to.
Reagans Rascals
09-12-12, 14:33
Now the new leader of Egypt is calling for more anti-American protests tomorrow. Anyone remember who Archduke Ferdinand was?
We're already in Afghanistan and Iraq, Israel is ready to go. I think we should bomb Pakistan into submission, take over all oil reserves in the three countries and begin to take control of the future of this world before the hateful fanatics decide our fates for us. Remember that these maniacs are only going to be kept nuclear free for so long, eventually they will have what they need to reach us here.
We would need the Europeans and India to be with us for it to work in the long run, no doubt. But with rising tensions regarding muslims worse there than here, it just might work if presented properly. Russia has it's own islam problems and would be unlikely to stand against all of us to support muslims.
Sound crazy or unrealistic? To me, so is hoping that if we just retreat to within our shores the rest of the world will leave us alone because we want it to.
Pakistan is a nuclear power..... somewhere to the tune of around 100 weapons... and rest assured... they'll start selling them off like hot cakes if it looks as if there is a world wide crusade against islamic fundamentalist middle eastern control...
I mean for ****s sake... they harbored UBL in their country for 10 years while we and the rest of the world looked for him...
this is why I said.... I seem to recall our having invented the Neutron bomb for a reason.... no?
extremely high yield, "low" destruction.... basically just kills everything living in the area without massively destroying infrastructure...
In the long term I think we should get out of the Middle East.
Oh? What wonderous thing will that manufacture for us, exactly?
Sorry to say it, but you are going to have this bullshit till they have their own version of the Thirty Years War and you cull the 15% of the population that are hard-core believers.
I like the way you think! :neo:
Pakistan is a nuclear power..... somewhere to the tune of around 100 weapons... and rest assured... they'll start selling them off like hot cakes if it looks as if there is a world wide crusade against islamic fundamentalist middle eastern control...
That, along with their strategic geographic location as well as them being a hub for AQ is exactly why I think we start there. Even if we just leave it at those three countries we have made a huge statement.
As far as the complications of long term occupation, things are probably going to be tough one way or the other so we may as well be in control at the very least. If someone wants to clarify why things will get better as their populations grow and resources are drained I'm all ears.
Littlelebowski
09-12-12, 16:10
Oh? What wonderous thing will that manufacture for us, exactly?
Oh, nothing. We're doing fine as is. Stay the course.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I think the gays are well aware but the other liberals don't seem to care where they get their gasoline from so long as it's not in their backyards.
Maybe but all i see are liberal blowhards that seem to favor a restriction of the first amendment to not upset islam. It was the first hypocritical example I could come up with.
If we fail to respond to this, and if we couch this in language such as "the Libyans aren't responsible, this was a rouge group" and other equivocation, fasten your seat belts. These insults (Egypt) are a grave issue and the administration needs to take them seriously, IMO. Failure to show strength will be interpreted very differently in their culture, no matter how much "restraint" we think we are showing.
bc
Iranian Embassy 1979
Somalia 1993
USS Cole 2000
We still aren't learning.
They got upset over this retarded dump-on-film?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC6yGzpSvjU
I had to watch this shitty video during a security briefing this mornong. By the time it was over, I wanted to kill the producer for inflicting it on me!
Did I rush to California to find someone to hold accountable physically? Nope! :mad:
A bit of a tangent, but is anyone else here, who's maybe been out of the trade for a bit, dusting off their CV and thumbing through the rolodex for their "go to" contacts? I'm feeling a distinct desire to travel and the emails I'm getting are telling me that I'm hardly the only one.
Doc Safari
09-12-12, 16:53
Iranian Embassy 1979
Somalia 1993
USS Cole 2000
You forgot Beirut 1983.
We still aren't learning.
We didn't even learn from 9-11. This country is so PC anymore that Michigan will probably institute Sharia law before a single one of these murdering thugs pays for the embassy attacks.
What worries me is that not even Romney is talking tough like Reagan did in 1980. I think part of the reason the hostages were released soon after the election is that the Iranians thought he might be crazy enough to nuke them.
This time? I haven't heard Romney do any more than make token statements about the whole thing. Obama says we will go after the ones responsible, but who really believes that?
Oh, nothing. We're doing fine as is. Stay the course.
"Ahh" yes the typical paulbotic youth cult irrational default position to a tough question, full retreat into dreamland....
No where, has any outlet reported that Marines were killed.
The part about the whole situation which angers me the most (in terms of how America handled it) ^
My prayers go out to all the families.
Regarding BHO and the administration, they ought to send SEAL's over there and find the people responsible, and kill every one of them. No trial, no prison time. Just hunter-killer teams and drone attacks. Send a message to these people.
But standing strong would make too much damn sense.
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 18:31
redacted.
Regarding BHO and the administration, they ought to send SEAL's over there and find the people responsible, and kill every one of them. No trial, no prison time. Just hunter-killer teams and drone attacks. Send a message to these people.
Obama, Clinton, the Ayers(Bill & Bernadine), Pelosi & all the rest, are the engineers of the Arab spring thingy. There will be no hunter killer teams...
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 18:36
redacted.
Cagemonkey
09-12-12, 18:38
This is just the beginning. Can't wait to see the fall out from Syria. The more the US meddles in things, the worst the get.
ForTehNguyen
09-12-12, 18:39
isnt this great, we help these guys get rid of gaddaffi and this is how they repay us? Hell at least under gaddaffi our embassies werent in this type of danger. Someone better pay dearly for this, killing ambassadors is kind of a big deal.
Semper Fi
Oh and libya, this is the thanks we get? Another vote for a return to non inteventionalism.
fixed
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 19:04
redacted.
ForTehNguyen
09-12-12, 19:05
I guess I feel a little bit better
15 Photos Of Libyans Apologizing To Americans (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer)
I want out of the Middle East & stop meddling in their business to be clear.
I'm pretty sure that any sensible individual would want the same. The question is whether or not that's what is in our best interest long term. And I'm not talking 100 years from now, I'm talking 5 or 10 years from now if that.
I guess I feel a little bit better
15 Photos Of Libyans Apologizing To Americans (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer)
An absolute first if I ever saw one. Remarkable to the extent that I had to quadruple check for evidence of a photoshop.
They themselves are the only non-violent solution. If more did this there might be reason for hope, but don't hold your breath.
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 19:25
redacted.
Cagemonkey
09-12-12, 19:28
I guess I feel a little bit better
15 Photos Of Libyans Apologizing To Americans (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer)
Thanks for the link. Its nice to know their are some good guys out there.
An absolute first if I ever saw one. Remarkable to the extent that I had to quadruple check for evidence of a photoshop.
They themselves are the only non-violent solution. If more did this there might be reason for hope, but don't hold your breath.
It's better than nothing and I'm glad to see it exists.
I personally think they are probably hopelessly outnumbered, but I'm still thankful to see it.
I really, really, really wish all this unrest was the Muslim Renaissance, it's been overdue for several hundred years. But I remember the Iranian "revolution."
Business_Casual
09-12-12, 20:38
I'm pretty sure that any sensible individual would want the same. The question is whether or not that's what is in our best interest long term. And I'm not talking 100 years from now, I'm talking 5 or 10 years from now if that.
I'd be happy for us to be non-interventionalist if that would work. I don't think it would though. If we leave a vacuum, then something will fill it. China, Brazil, Russia, Extremists, etc. So is it easier to pay bribes (aid) and dock the occasional destroyer there to show the flag, yep.
If they sponsored terror, we would smack them around like Reagan. If they harbor pirates, we'd send an expedition to punish them, like Jefferson.
But, in reality, we show weakness and apologize for films - total crap films that no one would take seriously. And on that point - who financed, co-ordinated and directed these operations?
What is to be done, as the question went in Tsarist Russia. Well, not what we are doing today.
bc
Moose-Knuckle
09-12-12, 21:15
Hmmm, the same people that this administration has been in bed with (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) and publicly supported (Arab spring, Muslim Brotherhood, et al.) are now burning Old Glory and shedding a US Ambassador’s blood . . . who knew? http://websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif
You think this is bad just wait till Barry's bunch gets us in Iran. http://websmileys.com/sm/party/bellyemoticon.gif
Belmont31R
09-12-12, 21:24
Remember this when all the lefties supported these revolutions, and supported Obama in supporting these "revolutionaries". Anyone who couldn't see shit like this happening are fools.
I think Obama is intentionally surrounding Israel with hostile radical muslim nations.
I think Obama is intentionally surrounding Israel with hostile radical muslim nations.
That would hardly be a new development.
"Ahh" yes the typical paulbotic youth cult irrational default position to a tough question, full retreat into dreamland....
"Ahh" yes the typical paulhaterz cult irrational default position to a tough question, full retreat into dreamland, where our current polices are flawless....
See, it works both ways!:rolleyes:
Don't mistake this for support of isolationism, because it isn't. However, you and I disagree completely on how to effect a strong national defense. :(
Remember this when all the lefties supported these revolutions, and supported Obama in supporting these "revolutionaries". Anyone who couldn't see shit like this happening are fools.
I think Obama is intentionally surrounding Israel with hostile radical muslim nations.
Obama, the Clinton, Pelosi, and the Ayer's, are the designers of the Arab spring. Hussein Obama sat in the church pew of a rabidly racist, anti-semite, hybrid communist for twenty years. The liberal intelligentsia, almost all of it, with but few exceptions, shares a passionate hatred of Israel, a mindset that they have carefully been inculcating American youth into for three unrestrained decades.
Even here, you will see the length of their reach mainifested via the knee-jerk parroting of leftist anti-semite talking points by some drive-by twenty-something...You can bet your ass that they are surrounding our proud little ally with their evil Islamist pals...
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 23:43
redacted.
FWIW,
A lot of chatter about FFO.
Clarify FFO ... sorry if it is a known acronym.
Tragic, and I am still uncertain about the "other two Americans", references are still too vague. Overall not surprised about the attack and definitely not surprised about our administration's reaction.
While not the Libya attack, I did find this picture of the similar in Egypt interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/09/12/Interactivity/Images/APTOPIX_Mideast_Egypt_US-032eb.jpg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-13-12, 00:01
Semper Fi.
Its all starting to become a bit much. America is weak. I really dont know what else to say. A country that has the power and the ability to own it all chooses to roll over to some bearded ****s with pitchforks and torches. I can only hope and pray that one day, MARSOC gets to roll through their at night and collect scalps of EVERY single person that stood outside of that embassy on 9/11.
The more I think about it, the angrier I get. On 9/11/12, US Soil was breached and attacked, and Americans were murdered. Our response is an apology and FAST platoon to police call the shrapnel in the parking lot. There used to be a time when "we sent in the Marines" meant that every living thing was about to die in the area, now it means that we have a 50 man working party to fix the holes in the embassy fence. Leadership..we have none.
FWIW,
A lot of chatter about FFO.
Nonsense. If credible sources of such information were really available to you, you wouldn't be on M4C talking about them. You'd either be complicit or trying to stop it.
If you want to call reactionary riff-raff and vacuous bullshit posted on conspiracy theory websites "chatter" like this is some kind of spy novel or official government intelligence report, then have fun with your fantasies of importance and delusions of grandeur.
If the "air" consists of empty assertions like this, inevitably followed by "do your own research," which really means "I have no supporting information so I'll place the burden on you," then I'll keep my head placed firmly in the sand.
If we fail to respond to this,
they will respond by apologizing and giving them more money and apologizing and some more apologies and a bow from our pres !
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-12, 00:11
Semper Fi.
Its all starting to become a bit much. America is weak. I really dont know what else to say. A country that has the power and the ability to own it all chooses to roll over to some bearded ****s with pitchforks and torches. I can only hope and pray that one day, MARSOC gets to roll through their at night and collect scalps of EVERY single person that stood outside of that embassy on 9/11.
The more I think about it, the angrier I get. On 9/11/12, US Soil was breached and attacked, and Americans were murdered. Our response is an apology and FAST platoon to police call the shrapnel in the parking lot. There used to be a time when "we sent in the Marines" meant that every living thing was about to die in the area, now it means that we have a 50 man working party to fix the holes in the embassy fence. Leadership..we have none.
Staple the picture to their foreheads to make it perfectly clear what we meant.
I guess I feel a little bit better
15 Photos Of Libyans Apologizing To Americans (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer)
that was funny cause 5 of the photos were the same sign :) hahahah
that was funny cause 5 of the photos were the same sign :) hahahah
It might as well read, "Please don't stop your flow of money and supplies".
Belmont31R
09-13-12, 00:26
Semper Fi.
Its all starting to become a bit much. America is weak. I really dont know what else to say. A country that has the power and the ability to own it all chooses to roll over to some bearded ****s with pitchforks and torches. I can only hope and pray that one day, MARSOC gets to roll through their at night and collect scalps of EVERY single person that stood outside of that embassy on 9/11.
The more I think about it, the angrier I get. On 9/11/12, US Soil was breached and attacked, and Americans were murdered. Our response is an apology and FAST platoon to police call the shrapnel in the parking lot. There used to be a time when "we sent in the Marines" meant that every living thing was about to die in the area, now it means that we have a 50 man working party to fix the holes in the embassy fence. Leadership..we have none.
It has to do with lowering the bar for American exceptionalism, and drumming down the city on the hill for believing we have no better position in the world than anyone else...or...in this case, even lower than Libya. We're at fault because someone here made a video so we have to say we're sorry we have right's.
Same reason we have to think every American is a potential terrorist and subject them to sexual assualts to get on a plane. Everyone gets drummed down to the lowest common denominator world wide, and thus everyone is a terrorist untl proven otherwise. Even the new mother with breast milk for an infant or a little kid with a teddy bear.
Why'd we bomb the shit out Libya in the first place? Our world is so out of alignment its insane. We heard for years how Bush didn't have an exit plan in Iraq yet we bomb the shit out of Libya for months, no one knows who is going to take over, and then we shocked when people get killed. Its a ****ing joke and shows how out of whack what we hear is. Same in Egypt, and same will be true for Syria. Obama assists in overthrowing all these countries, radicals take over, and then we are 'shocked' the people aren't little American's wanting to go vote for their Representative like we do for Congress here or even when they do vote the radicals take power.
All I really want to say is the world is full of a bunch of ****ing idiots, less than 1% of them are in charge, and **** up daily life for the rest of us. Some idiot POTUS we have hands over 2 countries to radicals we fought for almost a decade, polls show he is likely to win again, we can't even get a straight answer on if Obama said no to a meeting or not with Bibi, unemployment here is sky high, ****s want to scalp the biggest profit on anything thats sold, wages are going down,
Don't know. None of this shit makes sense, and thats probably because liberal/marxists are in charge of the western world and savage muslims are in charge now of the ME. It makes sense in that perspective how ****ed up things are but I have trouble seeing anything positive coming out of anything anytime soon.
Clarify FFO ... sorry if it is a known acronym.
Tragic, and I am still uncertain about the "other two Americans", references are still too vague. Overall not surprised about the attack and definitely not surprised about our administration's reaction.
While not the Libya attack, I did find this picture of the similar in Egypt interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/09/12/Interactivity/Images/APTOPIX_Mideast_Egypt_US-032eb.jpg
False Flag Operation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
It's the rally cry of conspiracy theorists across the interwebz.
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 00:49
redacted.
I would like to know the ROEs for the Marines assigned to these little pieces of sovereign U.S. land in third world shitholes. Even a nice way would be gas the inner compound, release dogs and less lethal munitions, followed up by lethal force (if not used immediately on those displaying weapons).
How horrible it must be for a Marine to stand and do nothing while someone tears down our flag over our own "ground".
Business_Casual
09-13-12, 05:58
Yeah, just think if someone shot up a theatre two days before a UN vote on a gun treaty.
The_War_Wagon
09-13-12, 07:03
they will respond by apologizing and giving them more money and apologizing and some more apologies and a bow from our pres !
This.
Turns out the ambassador was RAPED, before he was killed.
http://www.nopcradio.com/nopc-news/news/67-ambassador-stevens-was-raped-before-he-was-killed.html
Confirmed here.
http://www.tayyar.org/Tayyar/News/PoliticalNews/ar-LB/usa-killed-lybia-zek-970.htm
See pictures graphic pictures here - http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=149468
The religion of peace, love, & doobs strikes again!
I predict a HARD weekend of golf at Camp David... :rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
09-13-12, 08:01
Maybe but all i see are liberal blowhards that seem to favor a restriction of the first amendment to not upset islam. It was the first hypocritical example I could come up with.
We're on the same sheet, dude.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-12, 08:04
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/12/embassy-killings-in-libya-the-stench-of-ciamossad-false-flag/
http://gawker.com/5942748/it-makes-me-sick-actress-in-muhammed-movie-says-she-was-deceived-had-no-idea-it-was-about-islam?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/sam-bacile-film_n_1878060.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003&ir=Worldhttp://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/09/hot-is-there-really-sam-bacile.html
http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2012/09/jewish-filmmaker-sam-bacile-incites.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021327615
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/09/who-pushed-film-that-resulted-in-death.html
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/09/hot-is-there-really-sam-bacile.html
Spare me the belittling, condescending, ad hominem's, vituperative etc. comments you won't get a response or any traction w/ me. It has happened plenty of other times including Hitler's Richstag Fire, Iraq's WMD (still no conclusive evidence of those unless you have intel to the contrary please do show or cite INTEL), Operation Northwoods (read below) et al. No telling how many we DON't know about.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
That first one implicates everyone but the Easter Bunny and the KGB must be pissed they didn't at least get to cater the assasination.
Why does it have to be a FFO? I think the real story is how some crappy little trailer that no one has heard of became the best known American movie since Titanic? Shouldn't be hard to trace that back on the social media. There is real data there, not people looking for anagrams in Sam Imbecile's name.
Business_Casual
09-13-12, 08:59
I think the real story is how some crappy little trailer that no one has heard of became the best known American movie since Titanic?
I wonder of what that is a hallmark?
Doc Safari
09-13-12, 10:10
Here's an interesting article that suggests Hillary Clinton may ultimately take the blame for all of this:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/09/12/Clinton-responsible-for-security-failures-apologies#disqus_thread
I think The Jarrett is responsible.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4333/120730newsweekwimp2.jpg
By barrysoetero (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/barrysoetero) at 2012-09-13
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 10:26
redacted.
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 10:32
redacted.
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 12:25
redacted.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-12, 12:53
http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/
In a post 9/11 world, you don't let Marines carry live ammo? A Marine with out ammo is a target. Why even have them there?
California Man Confirms Role in Anti-Islam Film
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Egypt-Filmmaker/2012/09/13/id/451688
"Nakoula denied he directed the film and said he knew the self-described filmmaker, Sam Bacile. But the cell phone number that AP contacted Tuesday to reach the filmmaker who identified himself as Sam Bacile traced to the same address near Los Angeles where AP found Nakoula. Federal court papers said Nakoula's aliases included Nicola Bacily, Erwin Salameh and others.
Nakoula told the AP that he was a Coptic Christian and said the film's director supported the concerns of Christian Copts about their treatment by Muslims."
Former Navy SEAL Glen Doherty one of 4 Americans killed in attack on U.S. consulate in Libya
Glen Doherty
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57512187/former-navy-seal-glen-doherty-one-of-4-americans-killed-in-attack-on-u.s-consulate-in-libya/
LE has confirmed Nakoula as the film maker...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/innocence-of-muslims-filmmaker-nakoula-basseley-nakoula_n_1880706.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing6%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D204975
Dirk Williams
09-13-12, 13:46
Over on Small Wars Journel, I was reading that the commander of the liybian team sent to assist is saying that this was a coordinated attack that went on for four hours.
He also is quoted as saying that the mortar fire on the rally point safe house was far to accurate for any rebels. He is certain these were a well armed well disciplined force who understand special warfare doc.
Some very interesting reports on the SWJ site. For me it's a must read daily.
DW
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 13:53
redacted.
They knew exactly what the contents of that film were & the type of response was potentially possible & it would elicit imo etc.
As much of a piece of shit film as that was, I don't give a **** about that specific concern anymore. Just as we sit and watch minorities destroy our cities one by one without taking any constructive social action, we will think we can hide in the cabin in the woods or in a liberal haven on this one too.
A massively horrible combination of laziness, short sightedness, stupidity and idealology at a time when clarity and strength are needed most. Disgraceful.
Doc Safari
09-13-12, 14:13
Come on Guys, this is not about some movie that no one ever heard of. This was a coordinated planned set of attacks designed to coincide with 9/11.
The "movie" is just a cover story so that the Barry O administration doesn't have to admit that its foreign policy is bankrupt and that it is utterly unable to protect a single American overseas even if that American works in an official capacity for the State Department.
Marines with no ammo?
Hillary asking "how did this happen?"
Amateur Hour just wants all the attention to focus on some stupid little movie. That's like blaming "Debbie Does Dallas" for every rape that has occurred in the last 30 years.
Va SEAL is one of the killed:mad:
Not sure how anyone can believe this act had anything to do with a movie.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/09/13/winchester-native-one-four-americans-killed-libya-consulate-attack-benghazi/cBPcnSCVqmEDJA7ewADhVK/story.html
Va SEAL is one of the killed:mad:
Not sure how anyone can believe this act had anything to do with a movie.
The attack on the embassy was planned ahead, the rest of the uprisings seem to indeed be a direct result of that unbelievably crappy, overly edited movie. So far two actors have come out and stated that muhammad wasn't even mentioned in the scripts they read in the move and if you watch it you can see the blatant tampering.
Has anyone stopped to think about what's really going on over there? We've seen two governments that I would categorize as friendly to the US, toppled with assistance from our own government. Then we stand idly by while they raid our embassies and kill American citizens. Meanwhile, we sit on the sidelines while Syria murders thousands and their government retains power. Maybe this is exactly what the administration wants, chaos and Muslim rule for the entire region. As soon as we pull out of AFG and Iraq, they will fall into chaos as well. Soon we won't have a single ally in the region, except for Israel. We're not exactly showing strong support for them, are we? Just an observation.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Its all part of the plan!!! You cant fight an enemy that doesnt exist......so we're seeing to it that they exist.
Our government needs the boogie men to live on, that way we can still justify all the stupid bullshit emperialistic-globalistic money draining shit that we do in the name of freedom. The rednecks and jellyfish like it.....
Moose-Knuckle
09-13-12, 15:28
http://freebeacon.com/reports-marines-not-permitted-live-ammo/
In a post 9/11 world, you don't let Marines carry live ammo? A Marine with out ammo is a target. Why even have them there?
F**K that noise, for some odd reason this is what I envision an appropriate response by our Marines should be when defending US Embassys in shit hole nation states.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq4z33_rules-of-engagement-open-fire-scene_shortfilms
VooDoo6Actual
09-13-12, 15:41
redacted.
As little as some of the msm is making this out to be, being how they were more concerned with attacking romneys comments, this IS Obamas biggest test yet. Imagine a world where NONE of our embassies/consulates are safe and can be attacked at will. His response will shape our foreign policy for years to come.
I would like to know the ROEs for the Marines assigned to these little pieces of sovereign U.S. land in third world shitholes. Even a nice way would be gas the inner compound, release dogs and less lethal munitions, followed up by lethal force (if not used immediately on those displaying weapons).
How horrible it must be for a Marine to stand and do nothing while someone tears down our flag over our own "ground".
There should be an FN MAG on every roof, window, corner, and top wall of that building shooting anyone that tries to violate the perimeter of the embassy.
Why in the world is anyone giving a pass to the heinous violence in the ME just because a US private citizen made a movie they don't like? Whether the movie was or was not a contributing factor, the fact remains in our country we have freedom of speech and much worse things have been done here toward other religions (recall Piss Christ, for instance).
Yes, some US citizens may do things that people in other countries do not like. And if they travel abroad they take their chances. But is this not EXACTLY what we are supposed to fight to protect, the right of free speech? Are we going to allow ourselves to muzzle our citizens just because some self-avowed enemies use it as an excuse to attack us? Or do we fight now just for politically correct speech, or that which does not offend Islam but OK to insult Christians?
ForTehNguyen
09-13-12, 19:17
obvious had inside help for an attack like this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html
Revealed: inside story of US envoy's assassination
Exclusive: America 'was warned of embassy attack but did nothing'
The killings of the US ambassador to Libya and three of his staff were likely to have been the result of a serious and continuing security breach, The Independent can reveal.
American officials believe the attack was planned, but Chris Stevens had been back in the country only a short while and the details of his visit to Benghazi, where he and his staff died, were meant to be confidential.
The US administration is now facing a crisis in Libya. Sensitive documents have gone missing from the consulate in Benghazi and the supposedly secret location of the "safe house" in the city, where the staff had retreated, came under sustained mortar attack. Other such refuges across the country are no longer deemed "safe".
Some of the missing papers from the consulate are said to list names of Libyans who are working with Americans, putting them potentially at risk from extremist groups, while some of the other documents are said to relate to oil contracts.
According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.
Mr Stevens had been on a visit to Germany, Austria and Sweden and had just returned to Libya when the Benghazi trip took place with the US embassy's security staff deciding that the trip could be undertaken safely.
Eight Americans, some from the military, were wounded in the attack which claimed the lives of Mr Stevens, Sean Smith, an information officer, and two US Marines. All staff from Benghazi have now been moved to the capital, Tripoli, and those whose work is deemed to be non-essential may be flown out of Libya.
In the meantime a Marine Corps FAST Anti-Terrorism Reaction Team has already arrived in the country from a base in Spain and other personnel are believed to be on the way. Additional units have been put on standby to move to other states where their presence may be needed in the outbreak of anti-American fury triggered by publicity about a film which demeaned the Prophet Mohamed.
A mob of several hundred stormed the US embassy in the Yemeni capital Sanaa yesterday. Other missions which have been put on special alert include almost all those in the Middle East, as well as in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Armenia, Burundi and Zambia.
Senior officials are increasingly convinced, however, that the ferocious nature of the Benghazi attack, in which rocket-propelled grenades were used, indicated it was not the result of spontaneous anger due to the video, called Innocence of Muslims. Patrick Kennedy, Under-Secretary at the State Department, said he was convinced the assault was planned due to its extensive nature and the proliferation of weapons.
There is growing belief that the attack was in revenge for the killing in a drone strike in Pakistan of Mohammed Hassan Qaed, an al-Qa'ida operative who was, as his nom-de-guerre Abu Yahya al-Libi suggests, from Libya, and timed for the anniversary of the 11 September attacks.
Senator Bill Nelson, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said: "I am asking my colleagues on the committee to immediately investigate what role al-Qa'ida or its affiliates may have played in the attack and to take appropriate action."
According to security sources the consulate had been given a "health check" in preparation for any violence connected to the 9/11 anniversary. In the event, the perimeter was breached within 15 minutes of an angry crowd starting to attack it at around 10pm on Tuesday night. There was, according to witnesses, little defence put up by the 30 or more local guards meant to protect the staff. Ali Fetori, a 59-year-old accountant who lives near by, said: "The security people just all ran away and the people in charge were the young men with guns and bombs."
Wissam Buhmeid, the commander of the Tripoli government-sanctioned Libya's Shield Brigade, effectively a police force for Benghazi, maintained that it was anger over the Mohamed video which made the guards abandon their post. "There were definitely people from the security forces who let the attack happen because they were themselves offended by the film; they would absolutely put their loyalty to the Prophet over the consulate. The deaths are all nothing compared to insulting the Prophet."
Mr Stevens, it is believed, was left in the building by the rest of the staff after they failed to find him in dense smoke caused by a blaze which had engulfed the building. He was discovered lying unconscious by local people and taken to a hospital, the Benghazi Medical Centre, where, according to a doctor, Ziad Abu Ziad, he died from smoke inhalation.
An eight-strong American rescue team was sent from Tripoli and taken by troops under Captain Fathi al- Obeidi, of the February 17 Brigade, to the secret safe house to extract around 40 US staff. The building then came under fire from heavy weapons. "I don't know how they found the place to carry out the attack. It was planned, the accuracy with which the mortars hit us was too good for any ordinary revolutionaries," said Captain Obeidi. "It began to rain down on us, about six mortars fell directly on the path to the villa."
Libyan reinforcements eventually arrived, and the attack ended. News had arrived of Mr Stevens, and his body was picked up from the hospital and taken back to Tripoli with the other dead and the survivors.
Mr Stevens' mother, Mary Commanday, spoke of her son yesterday. "He did love what he did, and he did a very good job with it. He could have done a lot of other things, but this was his passion. I have a hole in my heart," she said.
Moose-Knuckle
09-13-12, 19:19
Why in the world is anyone giving a pass to the heinous violence in the ME just because a US private citizen made a movie they don't like? Whether the movie was or was not a contributing factor, the fact remains in our country we have freedom of speech and much worse things have been done here toward other religions (recall Piss Christ, for instance).
Yes, some US citizens may do things that people in other countries do not like. And if they travel abroad they take their chances. But is this not EXACTLY what we are supposed to fight to protect, the right of free speech? Are we going to allow ourselves to muzzle our citizens just because some self-avowed enemies use it as an excuse to attack us? Or do we fight now just for politically correct speech, or that which does not offend Islam but OK to insult Christians?
HYPOCRISY
hy·poc·ri·sy /hiˈpäkrisē/
Noun:
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
This would be the equivalent to Americans dressed in RealTree camo bursting into the mosque down the street, sodomizing the imam, and beheading him all the while recording it on the latest 4G smartphone and uploading it to YouTube because they don't like the pedophilic practice of bachabaze.
Reagans Rascals
09-13-12, 19:30
just reported that 2 of the men killed with the Ambassador were former SEAL's:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/13/13847618-two-killed-in-libyan-consulate-attack-identified-as-ex-navy-seals?lite&google_editors_picks=true
Moose-Knuckle
09-13-12, 19:37
just reported that 2 of the men killed with the Ambassador were former SEAL's:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/13/13847618-two-killed-in-libyan-consulate-attack-identified-as-ex-navy-seals?lite&google_editors_picks=true
Voodoo hit upon this in post #88 on this page. :cool:
Business_Casual
09-13-12, 19:38
just reported that 2 of the men killed with the Ambassador were former SEAL's:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/13/13847618-two-killed-in-libyan-consulate-attack-identified-as-ex-navy-seals?lite&google_editors_picks=true
That was the first thing I thought when I heard embassy staff
- security detail.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-12, 20:26
I'd think its open season on AQ by drone attack in Libya now. Is the Libyan govt going to say no?
Reagans Rascals
09-13-12, 20:38
Voodoo hit upon this in post #88 on this page. :cool:
touche` my dear man... touche`
So there is a story on the radio that the ambassador was raped before he was killed.
polymorpheous
09-13-12, 21:26
So there is a story on the radio that the ambassador was raped before he was killed.
This is the third time I have heard this.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-13-12, 22:14
I feel like that in 200 or 500 years, historians will look back at these times and wonder why it took so long for the rest of the world to figure out that the middle east was an area that just can't be integrated into the modern world. What exactly is it going to take for us realize these cultures are nothing more than neo-bronze age wanna-b's with petro dollars and AKs? To me it is a race to see if 'moderate and modern' middle easterners can shake off and remove the 20% of their population that terrorizes them, or do they do something that finally makes us give up on them and forever remove the threat.
It's easy to blame the religion, but areas of Asia with muslim populations don't cause this kind of craziness, so that isn't it.
These middle easterners are dumber than my kids. Even if only one is acting up, we not stopping for ice cream after dinner. The one kids rides the other to make sure that they get ice cream. All we seem to get out of middle easterners on 9/11 is "Yes, but..." to "We are all Osama's". No ice cream for you! And I don't understand Reagan'sR penchant for neutron bombs. What exactly are we trying to save over there?
Maybe Gene Roddenberry was smarter than we all know. Ever seen an Iranian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian or Saudi on a Star Trek Episode?
This is the third time I have heard this.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/09/us-ambassador-to-libya-was-raped-before-he-was-tortured-and-killed-savage.html
Widely reported....
I feel like that in 200 or 500 years, historians will look back at these times and wonder why it took so long for the rest of the world to figure out that the middle east was an area that just can't be integrated into the modern world. What exactly is it going to take for us realize these cultures are nothing more than neo-bronze age wanna-b's with petro dollars and AKs? To me it is a race to see if 'moderate and modern' middle easterners can shake off and remove the 20% of their population that terrorizes them, or do they do something that finally makes us give up on them and forever remove the threat.
It's easy to blame the religion, but areas of Asia with muslim populations don't cause this kind of craziness, so that isn't it.
These middle easterners are dumber than my kids. Even if only one is acting up, we not stopping for ice cream after dinner. The one kids rides the other to make sure that they get ice cream. All we seem to get out of middle easterners on 9/11 is "Yes, but..." to "We are all Osama's". No ice cream for you! And I don't understand Reagan'sR penchant for neutron bombs. What exactly are we trying to save over there?
Maybe Gene Roddenberry was smarter than we all know. Ever seen an Iranian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian or Saudi on a Star Trek Episode?
I'm often tempted to take your position on this, but IMO a consideration of some common and simple history forces a more optimistic and less fatalistic view.
The Ottoman Empire ruled for 623 years, ending officially in 1922 with the ouster of the Turkish Monarch. For six hundred years the area we call the middle east was under a semi-centralized authority.
While European economic imperialism and military adventurism were pervasive elements throughout this era, it wasn't until just before WWI that France, England, and later the US really started ****ing things up. And when I say ****ing things up, make no mistake, the west screwed up the entire region big-time.
Why should it surprise you that only 90 years after the dissolution of a centralized authority, with constant malevolence / incompetence coming from European and American interference, that there is significant strife and turmoil in the region?
Perhaps you're forgetting the hundreds of years of constant bloodshed that led to the current quazi-stability in Europe and the US. Perhaps you're forgetting that the worst crimes against humanity in the history of the world were perpetrated by Europeans and Russians in the middle of the 20th century, barely more than 50 years ago. That's "modern times," is it not?
It took hundreds of years of instability and millions of lives to get the western world onto the moral high-ground we now like to claim.
The brand new nations of the Middle East aren't as far along in the process because it didn't truly start the process until the 1920's.
I'd take a more careful consideration of history before writing them all off as hopeless barbarians, and be mindful of where we came from and how we got here.
I'm not excusing any kind of twisted behavior here - simply saying that it behooves us to be mindful of history and that 70 years ago the Germans were gassing millions of people. Now they're a productive and leading member of the global community. It does us no good to take as a foregone conclusion that any other civilization cannot do the same.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-13-12, 23:37
I'm often tempted to take your position on this, but IMO a consideration of some common and simple history forces a more optimistic and less fatalistic view.
The Ottoman Empire ruled for 623 years, ending officially in 1922 with the ouster of the Turkish Monarch. For six hundred years the area we call the middle east was under a semi-centralized authority.
While European economic imperialism and military adventurism were pervasive elements throughout this era, it wasn't until just before WWI that France, England, and later the US really started ****ing things up. And when I say ****ing things up, make no mistake, the west screwed up the entire region big-time.
Why should it surprise you that only 90 years after the dissolution of a centralized authority, with constant malevolence / incompetence coming from European and American interference, that there is significant strife and turmoil in the region?
Perhaps you're forgetting the hundreds of years of constant bloodshed that led to the current quazi-stability in Europe and the US. Perhaps you're forgetting that the worst crimes against humanity in the history of the world were perpetrated by Europeans and Russians in the middle of the 20th century, barely more than 50 years ago. That's "modern times," is it not?
It took hundreds of years of instability and millions of lives to get the western world onto the moral high-ground we now like to claim.
The brand new nations of the Middle East aren't as far along in the process because it didn't truly start the process until the 1920's.
I'd take a more careful consideration of history before writing them all off as hopeless barbarians, and be mindful of where we came from and how we got here.
I'm not excusing any kind of twisted behavior here - simply saying that it behooves us to be mindful of history and that 70 years ago the Germans were gassing millions of people. Now they're a productive and leading member of the global community. It does us no good to take as a foregone conclusion that any other civilization cannot do the same.
Normally, I tend to disagree with most of your postings. Not this time though. I think you hit the nail on the head.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-14-12, 07:22
Are these the Middle East's Dark Ages? Is post colonialism to blame for all this? Is the Arab spring the start of a new Renissance?
We can sure hope so. The problem is, based on your model and I've even pointed out, the middle east needs to go thru its own version of the Thirty Years War and put an end to religious based fighting.
Things are going to get worse before they get better.
PS. With it becoming more and more clear that the attack in Libya was not related to the crappy movie and instead was a well planned 9/11 related attack, how long can Obama dance around this and keep blaming other people? Blaming ETA for the Spanish commuter attacks really backfired on the govt there. Could this cost Obama the election?
- USA warned of attack by Egypt CIA a week in advance
- State Dept warned of attack 2 days in advance
- Marines at consulate not issued ammo
- No effort to evacuate or strengthen defenses
- Ambassador raped by goat****ers
- President feels no outrage, enjoys campaign party and talk show appearances.
Sounds like an inside job.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-14-12, 10:01
- USA warned of attack by Egypt CIA a week in advance
- State Dept warned of attack 2 days in advance
- Marines at consulate not issued ammo
- No effort to evacuate or strengthen defenses
- Ambassador raped by goat****ers
- President feels no outrage, enjoys campaign party and talk show appearances.
Sounds like an inside job.
I'm just not getting the FFO/inside job angle.
Cui bono?
And to save us time, Hanlon's razor:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Business_Casual
09-14-12, 10:04
@500g - not agreeing or disagreeing, but cite your sources - it would boost your argument.
bc
- USA warned of attack by Egypt CIA a week in advance
- State Dept warned of attack 2 days in advance
- Marines at consulate not issued ammo
- No effort to evacuate or strengthen defenses
- Ambassador raped by goat****ers
- President feels no outrage, enjoys campaign party and talk show appearances.
Sounds like an inside job.
You've had problems here before via straying outside the lines. Americans are not plotting to kill other Americans or allow them to be killed. As much as I dislike the administration there is no way that anything was "allowed" to happen. More ineptitude, nothing else.
Dirk Williams
09-14-12, 10:16
WTF how do you get AMERICIANS out of inside job for gods sake.
If I was the intel guy reviewing this, Americans would not even be on the radar. How about host nation staff who likely infiltrated the staff.
DW
I'd take a more careful consideration of history before writing them all off as hopeless barbarians, and be mindful of where we came from and how we got here.
No one said the world was always peaceful, but to indicate that somehow the west is responsible for the backwards assed animals that control the middle east is absurd. They were a mess before the west and are still a mess today. We have done nothing whatsoever to adversely effect their culture, they have been stuck in the seventh century since it passed.
Think I sound like a bigot? Take a look again at the Arafat funeral and the watch some of the Reagan funeral if you need a reminder of what the fundamental differences between our cultures are. I know you aren't making blanket excuses for them, but I still think you are understating the seriousness of their inherent problems.
WTF how do you get AMERICIANS out of inside job for gods sake.
If I was the intel guy reviewing this, Americans would not even be on the radar. How about host nation staff who likely infiltrated the staff.
DW
He indicated that the state department was warned and did nothing. Maybe you need to rethink your comment.
According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.
...
the perimeter was breached within 15 minutes of an angry crowd starting to attack it at around 10pm on Tuesday night. There was, according to witnesses, little defence put up by the 30 or more local guards meant to protect the staff. Ali Fetori, a 59-year-old accountant who lives near by, said: "The security people just all ran away and the people in charge were the young men with guns and bombs."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html
The Lebanese news organization Tayyar.org is reporting that the murdered American ambassador to Libya, J. Christopher Stevens, was raped prior to his killing September 11, 2012.
http://www.examiner.com/article/lebanese-report-us-ambassador-raped-before-murdered
U.S. Marines who attempted to protect the American embassy in Egypt were faced with a big problem, they were not given access to live ammunition.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/330528/marines-at-us-embassy-in-egypt-were-not-given-live-ammo-usmc-blogs-claim/#F4zfv8bVSVA4Grmo.99
Egyptian intelligence is warning of Global Jihad terrorists' intention to carry out terror attacks against the Israeli and US embassies in Cairo, Egypt's al-Masry al-Youm newspaper reported Tuesday.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4279826,00.html
Obama alone: This president does not need intel briefers
By Marc A. Thiessen,
How long had it been since President Obama attended his daily intelligence meeting in the lead-up to the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities in Egypt and Libya?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-obama-alone-this-president-does-not-need-intel-briefers/2012/09/13/c11e1a52-fda5-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html
White House officials apparently received warnings that there were threats made to attack as many as seven U.S. missions in the Middle East, on the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, as early as September 4. Sources also revealed that additional warnings were received a few days later, with similar information, but that all of the warnings were largely ignored by the administration.
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-administration-warned-of-possible-attacks-but-failed-to-take-precautions
Foreign news media are now reporting that the U.S. government had a full 48 hours’ warning that our missions in the Middle East, and perhaps specifically the one in Libya, were likely to face some kind of attack on Sept. 11. Yet they were left virtually naked from a security standpoint.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/249537-obamas-3-am-call-comes-he-hits-snooze-button
President Obama Skips Intel. Briefing One Day After Embassy Attacks, Media Silent on the Issue
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matt-vespa/2012/09/14/president-obama-skips-intel-briefing-one-day-after-embassy-attacks-media#ixzz26SbpbxXm
Many were surprised that Obama didn't postpone his scheduled Vegas campaign speech. However, this isn't the first time the President has been accused of putting campaigning for a second term, ahead of what's best for the country during his current term. Critics have blamed everything from continuing economic crisis to Obama's failed efforts to work with Republicans, to his cutback on daily, personal, intelligence briefings on Obama's perceived distraction with winning the election. This is ironic considering, as reported by The Blaze, Obama once criticized politicians for spending too little time reading intelligence reports and too much time reading public opinion.
According to the Washington Post, the Las Vegas crowd of 8,000 was exuberant.
http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981631210
Was it a planned, inside job?
BENGHAZI, LIBYA - Heavily armed militants used a protest of an anti-Islam film as a cover in their deadly attack on the U.S. Consulate, screaming "God is great!" as they scaled its outer walls and descended on the main building, a witness and a senior Libyan security official said Thursday.
The account, the most detailed yet of the rampage that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans, came as the Libyan government said that four people suspected in the attacks had been arrested and more were being sought.
The security official, eastern Libya's deputy interior minister, Wanis el-Sharef, said that it was a two-pronged attack. He said that hours after the crowd stormed the consulate Tuesday night, the militants raided a safe house in the compound just as U.S. and Libyan security arrived to evacuate the staff, suggesting that infiltrators within the security forces may have tipped off the militants to the location of the safe house.
The Obama administration was caught by surprise by the ferocity of the Sept. 11 attack in Benghazi. Now it is bracing for another potential eruption of violent demonstrations in parts of the Muslim world after Friday's weekly prayers - traditionally a time of protest in the Middle East and North Africa.
The U.S. put all of its diplomatic missions overseas on high alert, and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton delivered an explicit denunciation of the video as the administration sought to pre-empt further turmoil at its embassies and consulates.
"The United States government had absolutely nothing to do with this video," she said before a meeting with the foreign minister of Morocco at the State Department. "We absolutely reject its content and message."
"To us, to me personally, this video is disgusting and reprehensible," Clinton said. "It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose: to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage."
While rejecting the content of the video, Clinton stressed that no matter how offensive it is, the film cannot be used as an excuse for violence. She then reminded foreign governments that they have a responsibility to protect embassies.
Around the world, U.S. missions issued warnings to Americans about demonstrations that could turn violent.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20120914_Was_it_a_planned__inside_job_.html
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), called on President Obama to cancel his upcoming fundraiser with Beyonce and Jay-Z. Obama should meet with Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu instead, she said.
Conservatives criticized the Obama administration earlier this week for saying that the president‘s schedule doesn’t allow for him to meet with Netanyahu later this month. The prime minister’s office had requested a meeting with Obama.
Obama is scheduled to be on the Late Show and host a fundraiser with performers Beyonce and Jay-Z on Sept. 18
“He should cancel his appearance on Letterman, his meeting with Beyonce, his meeting with Jay-Z,” Bachmann said to applause from the audience.
http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/09/14/michele-bachmann-values-voter-obama-beyonce/
Wazzup, President Obama? You’ve got room on your schedule to schmooze hip-hop radio DJs, debate Nicki Minaj’s rap lyrics, hobnob with big donor celebs Jay-Z and Beyonce, and hang with Hollywood gossip TV anchors. _
We see your passion on the golf course, basketball court and beach. We see you late night on Letterman and Leno. We see your boundless energy on the campaign trail. We see your Twitter donation solicitations from dusk till dawn.
But when it comes time to play leader of the free world in times of international crisis, it’s “see ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya.” He’s all swag, no cattle.
I know I’m not the only one who was flabbergasted by Obama’s bloodless Rose Garden appearance following the planned two-part 9/11/12 jihadi attacks on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, which resulted in the deaths of four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens.
Late as usual, the president ambled up to the podium 15 minutes behind schedule on Wednesday morning. Teleprompter-less, he spent the majority of his fleeting five-and-a-half-minute appearance with eyes downcast on his script.
With a grim Secretary of State Hillary Clinton looking over his shoulder, Obama delivered a flat, obligatory tribute to the murdered Americans. And then he read these words, drained of any iota of outrage, as if reading a local weather forecast. Or a fifth-grade book report. Or a dinner menu:
“The United States condemns (pauses, looks down) in the strongest terms (pauses) this outrageous and shocking attack (monotone). We’re working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I’ve also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world.”
Punctuated with noncommittal “uhs” and a pedestrian lilt, he read some more:
“And make no mistake (eyes looking down). Uh. We will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people (eyes down, flipping page).”
In a bland and unconvincing recitation, Obama stated perfunctorily: “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.” Looking down at his script again, he hurried along: “We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.”
Detached, diffident, aloof and resigned, America and the world saw a eulogizer in chief, not a commander in chief. It was as if something more important were occupying his mind at the time.
And it was. Soon after, Obama scurried onto a plane to Las Vegas for a lovefest campaign rally with 8,000 fanboys and fangirls who cultishly screamed, “I lovve youuuuuu” — interrupting his cool POTUS flow momentarily as he dispensed with a line or two about the bloody disaster in the Middle East. Incurably self-absorbed, Obama lamented that “we” had a “tough day” for a second or two. And then he turned quickly back to the central business of getting himself re-elected.
If only Obama had mustered half as much energy and outrage at the homicidal Islamic plotters in Benghazi as he shows in his tirades against the Tea Party, the Koch brothers, conservative talk radio, Fox News, House GOP budget reformers or GOP presidential rival Mitt Romney and his running mate, Paul Ryan.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/14/malkin-the-hip-hop-president-all-swag-no-cattle/
With the above sources in mind, I do not think my comments lack support.
Doc Safari
09-14-12, 11:10
Glenn Beck was also accusing this administration of being firmly in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood on his radio show this morning.
I believe it was mostly ineptitude that led to this. I think the embassy staff was betrayed by a trusted person from the host country, and the incompetence of Barry's administration just led to the perfect cluster ****.
Doc Safari
09-14-12, 11:24
I'm watching Hillary Clinton's presidential aspirations deflate like a huge over-filled balloon:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/09/13/Obama-Hillary-ignored-warnings-Libyan-embassy#disqus_thread
Today, the Independent is reporting shocking details about the attack on the Libyan consulate that resulted in the death of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. The details are so explosive that they will result in a Congressional investigation. In fact, they’re so explosive that they should result in the resignation of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Why wasn’t there better protection at the consulate? Because that’s the way Secretary of State Clinton wanted it; the State Department posted no Marines to the consulate. It was staffed instead by those Libyan “security” forces. The consulate also had “no bulletproof glass, reinforced doors or other features common to embassies.”
Dirk Williams
09-14-12, 11:26
Safety, that's because his info is accurate. No secret source, available via open source sites.
I think what surprises me is that you are usually on top of this stuff. I don't see how you can refute this data.
Am I missing something.
Dirk
Littlelebowski
09-14-12, 11:39
Oh boy, 500Grains is back!
Safety, that's because his info is accurate. No secret source, available via open source sites.
I think what surprises me is that you are usually on top of this stuff. I don't see how you can refute this data.
Am I missing something.
Dirk
Look, 500 is an ok guy but this is why he gets himself into trouble. Dirk there is a huge difference between corrupt Libyans allowing access or turning their backs and Americans doing the same. Whether at the White House or elsewhere, Americans did not allow this to happen.
I don't think this lack of security and breach of security can be written off merely as incompetence.
The lack of armed Marines was a conscious, purposeful decision of Clinton's and past Sec of State to sideline our military and suck to host countries. The lack of bulletproof glass and other security features may be on oversight from incompetence, but when that is the standard for embassies how is it that our in the most violent countries of the world today lack this protection.
Then consider that Clinton enthusiastically supported the "Arab spring" claiming it was the birth of Muslim democracy!! It was the violent overthrow of the govts and a perfect opportunity for organized terrorists like the Muslim Brotherhood (remember the military members of MB bombing Sadat?) to take control. And she is surprised they don't love us?!
We can only say it is incompetence by virtue that the liberals who dominate State (regardless of admin it seems) have a world view disconnected from reality. But within their world view they purposely make decisions that put our embassies and staff, and our nation, at great risk. Do you think the Russian embassies in ME, where they are often allies of the violent elements, rely solely on local security and their own security have unloaded weapons?
We are seeing the consequences of a State Dept that is disconnected from reality and which rarely has our nation's best interests at heart. They have pie in the sky ideas and seem to always betray our friends and roll over to our enemies who see that weakness as the GO signal.
What has the Obama admin or State Dept done in the last two days to rectify that perception and send a message not to screw with us? I expect more is on the way.
Dirk Williams
09-14-12, 12:04
Safety I agree, I think my point is that insider did not mean American traitor to me, nor do I read his post to mean an americian traitor.
Don't know 500, just think accuracy is critical.
Are you watching the news Sudan and our allies embassys being attacked. It's in living color. Watch the tactics being used. These people have some semblance of training.
Interesting observation what's going on in The Kingdom?
DW
Talk about a 4GW/5GW paradigm shift (Anaysis paralysis anyone?)...
I need to get back to that training I've been putting off. Serisouly...
This was a planned attack, the "movie" that supposedly incited the attack was also planned IMO; as a distraction/red herring (Analysis paralysis at its finest).
Look at all of this in a larger context:
-Knoy 2012 (Getting the anti-war crowd to call for action by manipulating the scenario and using "one of their own" with a DIY video to garner support from a community usally hell-bent against any violent action)
-Stuxnet Virus (Planned/joint cyberattack- this was an act of war not just subterfuge- we will see a lot more of these in the future- think Taiwan & China...)
-Uprisings in the ME (How, why and when we intervene Vs. when we do not. How it is all spun by the gummint/media)
-Fast & Furious (Media/Govt. joint effort to further anti-2A agenda)
The enemy is forcing us to serve its own interests plain and simple.
We are beyond the pale...
I wonder if Huma Abedin could shed light on any of this.
http://counterjihadnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/523325_453554608022142_1627058155_n1.jpg?w=584
http://counterjihadreport.com/2012/08/20/huma-abedin-and-security-clearances/
http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/07/dont-let-the-facts-on-huma-abedins-family-get-in-the-way-of-attacking-michele-bachmann/
Huma's mom:
http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Peace/2012/07/20/Huma%20Abedin%20mom.gif
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/07/20/Huma-Abedin-mother-linked-Muslim-Brotherhood
A book published and translated by the mother of Obama administration State Department Deputy Chief of Staff Huma Abedin provides fresh evidence that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's closest aide has deeply problematic foreign associations that could, in violation of departmental guidelines, "create... a heightened risk of foreign exploitation, inducement, manipulation, pressure, or coercion."
In light of the escalating controversy over the role being played in U.S. security policy-making by Ms. Abedin and others with personal and/or professional ties to the Muslim Brotherhood , the revelations contained in a new Center report-- Ties That Bind? The Views and Agenda of Huma Abedin's Islamist Mother-- could not be more timely, or important.
http://www.mfs-theothernews.com/2012/07/center-report-reveals-radical-islamist.html
Report:
http://supportsecurefreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/CSP-Analysis-of-excerpts-from-Women-in-Islam-and-IICWC-IICDR-Relationship.pdf
now we got bomb threats abound and evacuating colleges...i want off this ride.
It's naive at best to believe that we didn't have intel on the terrorist attack carried out on the ambassador, SEAL's and staff.
And here we are listening to our government apologize for a ridiculous movie that nobody even knew about, while the POTUS decides to go to a fundraiser during the greatest crisis of his presidency. The crew we have in DC these days make the Carter administration look like rock stars.
Watching the news right now is making me physically ill.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-14-12, 12:46
With the above sources in mind, I do not think my comments lack support.
Cui bono???????
You people are wishing that the president is going home to his muslim roots and the state department is full of people trying to take down america.
Exactly how does Obama benefit from this? He's lambasted for his lack of governing and continual campaigning- and he engages in this now because...... this could implode and bring down his chances if re-election based on his one supposed strength - foreign relations.
A conspiracy to what end. Please in two sentences or less.
I cannot explain the fractured and irrational thinking of our current Commander in Cheese. But I do take note of his words:
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Business_Casual
09-14-12, 12:58
The lack of bulletproof glass and other security features may be on oversight from incompetence, but when that is the standard for embassies how is it that our in the most violent countries of the world today lack this protection.
I wondered about that - you can't get within blocks of a US Embassy in most countries without being on camera or passing a guard shack. Ever been to London? Secondly, didn't we spend BILLIONS after the embassy bombings in Africa to harden all the facilities? WTF.
bc
ForTehNguyen
09-14-12, 13:05
this entire thing is just damning evidence of how horrific our foreign policy is
Reality Check: Attack On U.S. Ambassador In Libya An Example Of "Blowback"? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA3ZohJUjuc&feature=channel&list=UL)
Reality Check: Does Libya Attacks Change U.S. Foreign Policy Moving Forward? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shaZxAKe65g)
VooDoo6Actual
09-14-12, 13:08
redacted.
Perhaps you're forgetting that the worst crimes against humanity in the history of the world were perpetrated by Europeans and Russians in the middle of the 20th century, barely more than 50 years ago.
Don't let China off the hook.
Don't let China off the hook.
Stalin killed 50 million, Mao killed 30 million.
Hitler was an amateur.
Allen West says it is Obama's fault:
Rep. Allen West is the type of right-wing Republican that Mitt Romney needs to attract but whose penchant for incendiary remarks would normally cause him to keep his distance. This week, however, they’re speaking from the same playbook with accusations that President Obama’s idea of foreign policy is apologies and appeasement.
In a statement issued Wednesday, the lawmaker took it a step further, suggesting that the president is to blame for the attacks in Libya that killed the U.S. ambassador and three embassy staffers. He also compared what he called Obama’s “appeasement” and the events in Egypt and Libya unfavorably to the time when 52 Americans at the Iranian embassy were held hostage for 444 days when Jimmy Carter was president.
“Americans need to question whether the deaths of these innocent patriots could have been avoided. The Obama administration touted the Arab Spring as an awakening of freedom, which we now see is a nightmare of Islamism,” West said. “How anyone can believe this president is strong on national security and foreign policy is beyond my comprehension. President Obama has clearly surpassed former President Jimmy Carter and his actions during the Iranian hostage crisis as the weakest and most ineffective person to ever occupy the White House.”
http://www.bet.com/news/features/vote-2012/news/politics/2012/09/13/allen-west-blames-obama-for-attacks-in-libya.html
But at least we are keeping Valerie Jarrett safe.
Ambassador Chris Stevens did not have a Marine detail in Benghazi, Libya. But White House Senior Advisor and Obama confidante Valerie Jarrett has a full Secret Service detail on vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, according to Democratic pollster Pat Caddell.
That’s the pathetic foreign policy of the Obama administration, says Caddell today in an exclusive interview with Breitbart News. “Jarrett seems to have a 24 hour, around the clock detail, with five or six agents full time,” Caddell explains. “The media has been completely uninterested. We don’t provide security for our ambassador in Libya, but she needs a full Secret Service security detail. And nobody thinks there’s anything wrong with this. And nobody in the press will ask.
What kind of slavish stoogery are they perpetrating here?
“This country has reached the point of absurdity. There are people dead because we don’t have security details for them. But she’s privileged to have a full Secret Service detail on vacation?”
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/14/valerie-jarrett-pat-caddell-libyan-embassy
Good luck with this continued trajectory as we are bankrupt, lost our manufacturing base, unemployment rates off the chart, policies imploding & erroding our Nation's cohesiveness we have had in the past. The other countries get the news too including Libya, Egypt, Syria etc. & see what's going on here in addition to Russia, China, N. Korea & others. They know the US is in BIG trouble despite the cheery blush & rouged face the diplomats & politicians put on for the cameras & media. Other's may be in the same predicaments regarding food, economics etc. but I'm concerned w/ my fellow American's, our children's future & their future generations first & foremost not trying to save the World & win the World's Hearts & Minds whilst we are imploding here. This situation has the potential to come off the rails & foment ME conflagration if not contained ASAP.
Its unavoidable, we are totally enslaved to inertia, as is the world itself. To crib from the late Hunter S. Thompson, we bought the ticket & we are going to be taking the ride...
VooDoo6Actual
09-15-12, 12:21
redacted.
montanadave
09-15-12, 12:30
"Obamas Nahost-Politik ist in Ruins"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-press-review-on-middle-east-violence-against-us-embassies-a-855835.html
Interesting again & again that the foreign articles are far more accurate etc.
Interesting cross-sample of perspectives from across the spectrum.
One excerpt from the linked article:
The financial daily Handelsblatt writes:
"Three years after Obama's speech in Cairo, which was supposed to initiate a new beginning in the Middle East, the United States now has even less support in the region than before. That's not a failure of this president. Instead, it is the consequences of an American foreign policy that for decades favored power over democracy, and a hard line over human rights -- and which will suffer from a credibility problem for a long time for precisely those reasons."
"Mitt Romney has, however, failed to recognize the very core of the American dilemma. He attacked Obama with twisted facts shortly after the announcement of the death of the US ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens. He claimed that the US government had sympathized with the attackers in Benghazi. But not only was that factually wrong, it also demonstrated an alarmingly high level of foreign policy incompetence to his own party. None of this would matter, except that Romney wants Obama's job -- and might even get it on Nov. 6."
Business_Casual
09-15-12, 12:56
Are you joking? The President isn't responsible for the failure of foreign policy? That's rich.
bc
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/15/Feds-Take-Christian-Filmmaker-In-For-Questioning
montanadave
09-15-12, 13:32
Are you joking? The President isn't responsible for the failure of foreign policy? That's rich.
bc
Presidents. Plural.
We didn't engender this level of ill will amongst all these folks in all these countries overnight. And, as the current POTUS has learned, you don't turn the tide during the course of one administration.
International relations are complicated, multi-layered, and nuanced. Not exactly the strong suit of the American people or our elected officials, who feel compelled to bring everything to the LCD.
All too often, the United States conducts itself like a Wheel of Fortune country living in a Jeopardy world.
but each PRESIDENT has to take responsibility for what happens on his watch ! and this one just blames Bush or now blames Romney ?
Presidents. Plural.
We didn't engender this level of ill will amongst all these folks in all these countries overnight. And, as the current POTUS has learned, you don't turn the tide during the course of one administration.
International relations are complicated, multi-layered, and nuanced. Not exactly the strong suit of the American people or our elected officials, who feel compelled to bring everything to the LCD.
All too often, the United States conducts itself like a Wheel of Fortune country living in a Jeopardy world.
All too often, the United States conducts itself like a cash register, constantly dispensing billions in aid to countries that have absolutely no appreciation for a dime of it while their citizens call for our deaths.
There you go, it was really a mess before.
Business_Casual
09-15-12, 15:14
Presidents. Plural.
We didn't engender this level of ill will amongst all these folks in all these countries overnight. And, as the current POTUS has learned, you don't turn the tide during the course of one administration.
International relations are complicated, multi-layered, and nuanced. Not exactly the strong suit of the American people or our elected officials, who feel compelled to bring everything to the LCD.
All too often, the United States conducts itself like a Wheel of Fortune country living in a Jeopardy world.
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was Macht Politik. In other words, an object lesson for any leader who sponsors terror.
The current policy is weakness and fecklessness, which encourages the reaction we are seeing. In that part of the world, "reset" and "restraint" mean weakness. Period. It really isn't that complicated to figure out.
bc
Guys, keep in mind WE supported Al Qaeda elements overthrowing Muammar Khaddafi in Libya just as we have and are supporting them in Syria as we support them all over the Caucasus. We supported them in Kosovo via the KLA, too.
The individuals determining and running our foreign policy need to go NOW!
NONE of those nations NOR ANY OF THEIR GEOPOLITICAL OR NATURAL RESOURCES are worth ONE American life.
Until we stand united for LIBERTY AND JUSTICE AND TRANSPARENCY IN GOV'T this will not end well.
That said I pray for the Americans killed and their friends and families.
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 16:00
Presidents. Plural.
We didn't engender this level of ill will amongst all these folks in all these countries overnight. And, as the current POTUS has learned, you don't turn the tide during the course of one administration.
International relations are complicated, multi-layered, and nuanced. Not exactly the strong suit of the American people or our elected officials, who feel compelled to bring everything to the LCD.
All too often, the United States conducts itself like a Wheel of Fortune country living in a Jeopardy world.
In some ways its stuff we have done, and some things we cannot help. Islam is a religion of conquest and assimilation of non-believers in a violent fashion. Historically they have had little regard for other beliefs and people. The western world has been fighting them for over a thousand years. Im not sure why people think this can be solved in a few years or with Obama giving another speech.
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 16:06
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was Macht Politik. In other words, an object lesson for any leader who sponsors terror.
The current policy is weakness and fecklessness, which encourages the reaction we are seeing. In that part of the world, "reset" and "restraint" mean weakness. Period. It really isn't that complicated to figure out.
bc
The Islamic world has to be governed by who has the biggest stick because that's the only way to control a country. After the soviets left Afghanistan there was a power vacuum, and since they didn't have reds to fight anymore they fought each other. When went into afghanistan in 2001 there was a 'civil war' that had been going on for years between the Taliban and Northern Alliance. When they aren't fighting infidels they are fighting each other for power. We bought off different factions and warlords to help us as their loyalty was to who paid them the most. A guy fighting for you today might be shooting at you tomorrow.
Democracy does not work there. When our republic was founded the Founders were clear our system only works for our kind of people....meaning people who have respect for the law of the land and are generally moralistic people on the same page. Our biggest blunder had been trying to turn Islamic countries into little democratic Americas instead of putting in western friendly dictators, and making sure their stick is bigger than anyone elses.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-12, 16:07
"Obamas Nahost-Politik ist in Ruins"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-press-review-on-middle-east-violence-against-us-embassies-a-855835.html
Interesting again & again that the foreign articles are far more accurate etc.
"One thing is clear: If jihadists believe they can attack American installations and kill an ambassador on the anniversary of Sept. 11, then America's deterrent power has declined considerably. For a superpower, it is not enough just to want to be loved. You have to scare the bad guys to keep them in check."
I don't totally agree with the statement, but there has to be some facts there. While I have seen it mentioned in this thread, I haven't seen it anywhere in the press, if this happened because the US was getting close to the MANPADs and that is a chilling thought.
In some ways its stuff we have done, and some things we cannot help. Islam is a religion of conquest and assimilation of non-believers in a violent fashion. Historically they have had little regard for other beliefs and people. The western world has been fighting them for over a thousand years. Im not sure why people think this can be solved in a few years or with Obama giving another speech.
Slow clap.....
Business_Casual
09-15-12, 16:15
The Islamic world has to be governed by who has the biggest stick because that's the only way to control a country. After the soviets left Afghanistan there was a power vacuum, and since they didn't have reds to fight anymore they fought each other. When went into afghanistan in 2001 there was a 'civil war' that had been going on for years between the Taliban and Northern Alliance. When they aren't fighting infidels they are fighting each other for power. We bought off different factions and warlords to help us as their loyalty was to who paid them the most. A guy fighting for you today might be shooting at you tomorrow.
Democracy does not work there. When our republic was founded the Founders were clear our system only works for our kind of people....meaning people who have respect for the law of the land and are generally moralistic people on the same page. Our biggest blunder had been trying to turn Islamic countries into little democratic Americas instead of putting in western friendly dictators, and making sure their stick is bigger than anyone elses.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think you are agreeing with me.
We've NOT tried to turn them into "little America's" at all: we've supported brutal, petty tyrants to gain access to oilfields, natural gas fields, geostrategic bases and such.
Show me where we have ever introduced a REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOV'T or demanded same... We've never introduced a Bill Of Rights which THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD would very likely embrace.
Our foreign policy is at odds with the IDEALS set forth at the very beginning of our nation. While some may balk at this they should ask themselves do our DOMESTIC policies follow the very same IDEALS... Then why the faux surprise?
Guys, keep in mind WE supported Al Qaeda elements overthrowing Muammar Khaddafi in Libya just as we have and are supporting them in Syria as we support them all over the Caucasus. We supported them in Kosovo via the KLA, too.
NOBODY is going to acknowledge that fact. Nobody wants to admitt that we in fact create our own problems, just so we can have problems to keep us in the region.
We're supposedly at war with AQ, but support their take over of Syria, Libya, and Egypt. That doesnt seem strange to anyone? Or do people not care? Seems as long as they have a boogie man to hate, they're perfectly content in buying all the bullshit our government is selling.
Once again, maybe the fluoride is turning people into retarded jellyfish......
VooDoo6Actual
09-15-12, 16:46
redacted.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-12, 17:08
[B]Hillary Clinton accidentally admits that the CFR runs this nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfpgl6NqF0I&feature=related
I hope some people are finally getting this convoluted labyrinth of deceit/deception including the flourided retarded Jellyfish & MoonBats etc.
Uhm, I think that is a misreading of what she said. Yes, she said the CFR gives her all the answers and advice- but she says it almost sarcastically. Her line about the full email inbox just shows she is trying to be defferential, but she really doesn't give a crap what these people say. She is so happy they are right down the street... sure.
It's like Trent Lott saying old what's his name would have made a great president.
VooDoo6Actual
09-15-12, 17:23
redacted.
NOBODY is going to acknowledge that fact. Nobody wants to admitt that we in fact create our own problems, just so we can have problems to keep us in the region.
We're supposedly at war with AQ, but support their take over of Syria, Libya, and Egypt. That doesnt seem strange to anyone? Or do people not care? Seems as long as they have a boogie man to hate, they're perfectly content in buying all the bullshit our government is selling.
Once again, maybe the fluoride is turning people into retarded jellyfish......
The silence and confusion is deafening.
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 17:53
NOBODY is going to acknowledge that fact. Nobody wants to admitt that we in fact create our own problems, just so we can have problems to keep us in the region.
We're supposedly at war with AQ, but support their take over of Syria, Libya, and Egypt. That doesnt seem strange to anyone? Or do people not care? Seems as long as they have a boogie man to hate, they're perfectly content in buying all the bullshit our government is selling.
Once again, maybe the fluoride is turning people into retarded jellyfish......
The Egypt, Libya, Syria thing only came into play because of Obama who is pro-radical and basically went on an apology tour saying the US was retreating our influence.
I still assert the guy is trying to surround Israel with radicals. The guy has been outright confrontational with Israel since he was elected. The latest "scheduling" issue with Bibi is just another example.
Yes, to a certain extent, we create our own problems but I think both parties are to blame, and both parties are into doing something. We've never tried doing nothing but saying its not our business but if you attack us we're going to **** you up and the choice is yours. Instead, depending on who's in office, we either are spineless/apologetic or play nation building.
And as I said Islam is incompatible with the west, and we've been butting heads to some extent for a thousand years. I don't get why people can' accept this instead of trying to make peace or like Obama apologize or placate them into liking us. I think both methods we've employed are faulty.
Moose-Knuckle
09-15-12, 18:00
The Egypt, Libya, Syria thing only came into play because of Obama who is pro-radical and basically went on an apology tour saying the US was retreating our influence.
I still assert the guy is trying to surround Israel with radicals. The guy has been outright confrontational with Israel since he was elected. The latest "scheduling" issue with Bibi is just another example.
Yes, to a certain extent, we create our own problems but I think both parties are to blame, and both parties are into doing something. We've never tried doing nothing but saying its not our business but if you attack us we're going to **** you up and the choice is yours. Instead, depending on who's in office, we either are spineless/apologetic or play nation building.
And as I said Islam is incompatible with the west, and we've been butting heads to some extent for a thousand years. I don't get why people can' accept this instead of trying to make peace or like Obama apologize or placate them into liking us. I think both methods we've employed are faulty.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
X-ring right there. The end goal is globalism and Islam is not compatible with it so the pawns (US, NATO, etc.) "influence" the region to align with geopolitical goals.
In some ways its stuff we have done, and some things we cannot help. Islam is a religion of conquest and assimilation of non-believers in a violent fashion. Historically they have had little regard for other beliefs and people. The western world has been fighting them for over a thousand years. Im not sure why people think this can be solved in a few years or with Obama giving another speech.
ditto except for the first part ?
its nothing we did ! its just their excuse
cause it started as you said before us again just a current excuse to do what they want destroy any and all religion except theirs kill or convert or enslave any non believer
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 18:19
ditto except for the first part ?
its nothing we did ! its just their excuse
cause it started as you said before us again just a current excuse to do what they want destroy any and all religion except theirs kill or convert or enslave any non believer
RE the first part if you want to look at the last 2 or 3 admins it was basically clinton who did something but it was like throwing a bone to a stray dog. Makes the dog happy for a few minutes but doesn't do anything.
Bush was a nation builder, and threw hundreds of billions trying to prop up political systems which don't work in the ME. I realized it was a failed policy when I was in Iraq, and that they don't need or want that type of system. The only ones who want that type of system are the ones who stand to benefit off of it. This is because these people are so tribal in nature they will simply ignore what someone else says just because of what sect they are or what part of the country they came from. They don't need a national government to control some small segment of the population hundreds of miles away. They respect their village elder, and respect declines the further away from their house you go. The only way national governments work there is if the guy had a big enough stick to control every inch of their territory. So Im not sure why we are trying to instill democracy there. The way it works there...is if your guy loses you just ignore what the government says unless they can force you to not ignore them.
Democracy or a republic is not their natural or default state of governance. We should use what works best for them while trying to make the best of the situation. This is a dictator who is pro-west.
ditto except for the first part ?
its nothing we did ! its just their excuse
cause it started as you said before us again just a current excuse to do what they want destroy any and all religion except theirs kill or convert or enslave any non believer
You cant be ****ing serious. Its nothing we've done? Really?
WTF are we doing over there? Why did we give aid/support the Islamic Radicals that are now in power in Libya? We can only thank ourselves for AQ even existing. We've been supporting them since the 80's.
Enjoy living in lala land if you actually believe we've had no influence with AQ or other Islamic radical groups.
Chris Stevens was gay. Maybe that is why the muslims raped him.
http://hillbuzz.org/breaking-news-two-sources-in-chicago-diplomatic-circles-identify-ambassador-chris-stevens-as-gay-meaning-state-department-sent-gay-man-to-be-ambassador-to-libya-64291
NinjaMedic
09-15-12, 19:40
Chris Stevens was gay. Maybe that is why the muslims raped him.
http://hillbuzz.org/breaking-news-two-sources-in-chicago-diplomatic-circles-identify-ambassador-chris-stevens-as-gay-meaning-state-department-sent-gay-man-to-be-ambassador-to-libya-64291
Really? And women get raped because they dress provocatively right?
Cagemonkey
09-15-12, 19:52
Really? And women get raped because they dress provocatively right?Look at it from a Radical Islamist point of view.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-15-12, 19:57
Really? And women get raped because they dress provocatively right?
In some parts of the world, including some Muslim areas, yeah.
The Egypt, Libya, Syria thing only came into play because of Obama who is pro-radical and basically went on an apology tour saying the US was retreating our influence.
No, it's bigger than the current president. The CFR "determines" foreign policy - not the president. And the president is briefed by Intel Agencies and his cabinet daily.
I still assert the guy is trying to surround Israel with radicals. The guy has been outright confrontational with Israel since he was elected. The latest "scheduling" issue with Bibi is just another example.
SOMEONE needs an enemy to fight and they have created SEVERAL...
To Hades with Netanyahu! We are AMERICANS. He can take a number just like the rest of the world. When he stops whining and accepting MY taxpayer dollars THEN AND ONLY THEN will I pay him ANY damned attention. May I suggest every other American do/think likewise.
And as I said Islam is incompatible with the west, and we've been butting heads to some extent for a thousand years. I don't get why people can' accept this instead of trying to make peace or like Obama apologize or placate them into liking us. I think both methods we've employed are faulty.
Are you suggesting that "we" should be okay with Globalism? I respect ANY AND ALL who resist what's going on even if I have "issues" with some things about them.
We should be so brave...
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-12, 21:05
I have a real problem with the arguement that by promoting democracy the ME problem is our fault AND the ME Problem is our fault because we supported one party rule. You can't have it both ways.
I have a real problem with the arguement that by promoting democracy the ME problem is our fault AND the ME Problem is our fault because we supported one party rule. You can't have it both ways.
"Promoting Democracy", you say?
Really?
M'kay...
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-12, 21:27
"Promoting Democracy", you say?
Really?
M'kay...
Mr. Hand, is that you?
Are we not promoting elections with out constraints on parties in Egypt. That is pretty well known as 'democracy'. Where it goes, who knows but for some reason people think that mob rule is the key to western culture, when it is in fact the respect for individual rights, one of which is to have a say in govt.
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 21:42
Mr. Hand, is that you?
Are we not promoting elections with out constraints on parties in Egypt. That is pretty well known as 'democracy'. Where it goes, who knows but for some reason people think that mob rule is the key to western culture, when it is in fact the respect for individual rights, one of which is to have a say in govt.
Have ranted about this before. People like Alan Colmes defend the situation as promoting democracy...really? We should not be promoting democracy, and its WHY we are not a democracy.
I have a real problem with the arguement that by promoting democracy the ME problem is our fault AND the ME Problem is our fault because we supported one party rule. You can't have it both ways.
Promoting democracy? LOL ya ok...whatever you've got to tell yourself.
But lets just play the "what if" game. Even if we have been "promoting democracy", I have to ask the question.....WHY? We are not the world police, it is not our responsibility to try and improve the quality of life for citizens in other countries. Thats THEIR problem.
But now lets get back to reality. Do you honestly believe the rebels we supported in Libya are pro-democracy? Doesnt seem to look that way now does it?
Really? And women get raped because they dress provocatively right?
Yeah, sometimes they do, and in most Islamic nations, its not a very bright idea to send them homosexuals as representatives of our way of life.
Dirk Williams
09-15-12, 22:06
There is a global agenda in play. Massive multi force navy's presently off the coast of Iran. Something like 25 nations have sizable navy presence.
It appears they are preparing for the Jews to "Get Some" The free world Can Not allow Iran to mine the straits, as the majority of the oil transits via the straits and the Med to the EU and the US.
I see the potential for WWIII on the horizon.
DW
Now the new leader of Egypt is calling for more anti-American protests tomorrow. Anyone remember who Archduke Ferdinand was?
We're already in Afghanistan and Iraq, Israel is ready to go. I think we should bomb Pakistan into submission, take over all oil reserves in the three countries and begin to take control of the future of this world before the hateful fanatics decide our fates for us. Remember that these maniacs are only going to be kept nuclear free for so long, eventually they will have what they need to reach us here.
We would need the Europeans and India to be with us for it to work in the long run, no doubt. But with rising tensions regarding muslims worse there than here, it just might work if presented properly. Russia has it's own islam problems and would be unlikely to stand against all of us to support muslims.
Sound crazy or unrealistic? To me, so is hoping that if we just retreat to within our shores the rest of the world will leave us alone because we want it to.
Glad you're nowhere NEAR the White House... You'd freaking start WW III....
There is a global agenda in play. Massive multi force navy's presently off the coast of Iran. Something like 25 nations have sizable navy presence.
It appears they are preparing for the Jews to "Get Some" The free world Can Not allow Iran to mine the straits, as the majority of the oil transits via the straits and the Med to the EU and the US.
I see the potential for WWIII on the horizon.
DW
What "Free World"?
I agree about the potential for WW III.
Dirk Williams
09-15-12, 22:26
I just wrote what I read. Your point is taken. I stand corrected.
DW
Business_Casual
09-15-12, 22:35
I didn't get that as sarcasm at all. I got it as tongue & cheek truth and to me it was innuendo/inference, wink & a nod ass kissing for her Puppet Masters since that's their event hosting etc.
More that's relevant regarding CFR etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMayaeHd6I&feature=autoplay&list=PLF27D1357EA469725&index=3&playnext=2
Ronald Reagan vs. Obama contrast ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hY1eagq88&feature=related
Exactly - people in her position/at her level don't bother with deception. They state it openly if you are able to understand it.
PS - oil is a red herring, and the amount the ME has or doesn't have doesn't matter to us. We can obtain that oil right in our own borders if we bother to take it.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
X-ring right there. The end goal is globalism and Islam is not compatible with it so the pawns (US, NATO, etc.) "influence" the region to align with geopolitical goals.
Close. The pawns wouldn't submit to global banking cartel, ie The Fed, IMF, their pawn the UN etc. Gaddafi's son was courted by the globalists in London where he received free "higher education", so was Kim Jong UN. Saddam was madman and would never give up his power or Soveirngty. Kim Jong Il and gaddafi would not either. Will Assad and Iran? What do all of these countries have in common?
None of them had a central bank controlled by the global banking cartel. They were all sovereign that ruled with an iron fist. Type a personalities that will not be told what to do.
VooDoo6Actual
09-16-12, 11:01
redacted.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-12, 13:46
Voodoo conspiracy theories
VooDoo6Actual
09-16-12, 13:57
redacted.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-12, 14:23
Of course you would make that comment. Rather than read more regarding Geopolitics/Technocracy etc., it's easier to cast doubt, point, gawk, veiled/cloaked ad hominems etc.
100% predictable w/ certitude as will others. I'll save this for subscription & remind you down the road politely w/o the same tone.
Actually, I read about half the articles you have listed, and the revenge of Malthus has been coming for years, and years. I am intamately involved with raw/base material economics and its impacts.
Plus, I feel cheated about you changed your name. That was one of my favorite IDs. Hoploethos conspiracy theory doesn't have the same implications. Wasn't Voodoo6 Iceman's call sign in Topgun?
Conspiracy theory, by the way, doesn't mean that its wrong, it just means that it is not the accepted orthodoxy. I didn't mean it as a dig, but I would say that you are main advocate of here on the board.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-16-12, 14:45
Wait, Hop is voodoo?
Dirk Williams
09-16-12, 17:16
WTF, that's one of the better jobs of deflection I've read in a while. What's the beef, your both well informed, I happen to read the raw data as HOP or VOODOO does.
DW
Voodoo conspiracy theories
My friend you need to get out more...The data included in post 181 is golden...
Close. The pawns wouldn't submit to global banking cartel, ie The Fed, IMF, their pawn the UN etc. Gaddafi's son was courted by the globalists in London where he received free "higher education", so was Kim Jong UN. Saddam was madman and would never give up his power or Soveirngty. Kim Jong Il and gaddafi would not either. Will Assad and Iran? What do all of these countries have in common?
None of them had a central bank controlled by the global banking cartel. They were all sovereign that ruled with an iron fist. Type a personalities that will not be told what to do.
****ing spot on!
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-16-12, 19:02
I'm deflecting because I have a lot of respect for Voodoo, and his voodoo. He brings a lot to the conversations and he is one of the best sources of info here. I just happen to disagree with his outcome on this. I'm not naive enough to believe that the what is in the public is what is the truth, but I don't go for the Bilderberg/Neo-con/World Bank conspiracies. I also grew up in a large Jesuit educated Irish-Catholic family that called bull shit when they saw it. My small family wife finds my family incredible rude. They usually don't remember that she was there. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be commenting.
I've got plenty of other things to do, and I wish I got out less actually. If you don't like people contardicting your little conspiracy, sorry.
I'm deflecting because I have a lot of respect for Voodoo, and his voodoo. He brings a lot to the conversations and he is one of the best sources of info here. I just happen to disagree with his outcome on this. I'm not naive enough to believe that the what is in the public is what is the truth, but I don't go for the Bilderberg/Neo-con/World Bank conspiracies. I also grew up in a large Jesuit educated Irish-Catholic family that called bull shit when they saw it. My small family wife finds my family incredible rude. They usually don't remember that she was there. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be commenting.
I've got plenty of other things to do, and I wish I got out less actually. If you don't like people contardicting your little conspiracy, sorry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Xh5qwnLeA
http://www.businessinsider.com/central-banks-may-never-allow-libor-to-be-truly-fixed-2012-8
http://www.forbes.com/sites/shahgilani/2012/07/06/its-not-libor-stupid-central-banks-are-the-problem/
http://m.cnbc.com//id/42308613/Libyan_Rebels_Form_Their_Own_Central_Bank
The golden nugget.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html
Moose-Knuckle
09-17-12, 03:27
Close. The pawns wouldn't submit to global banking cartel, ie The Fed, IMF, their pawn the UN etc. Gaddafi's son was courted by the globalists in London where he received free "higher education", so was Kim Jong UN. Saddam was madman and would never give up his power or Soveirngty. Kim Jong Il and gaddafi would not either. Will Assad and Iran? What do all of these countries have in common?
None of them had a central bank controlled by the global banking cartel. They were all sovereign that ruled with an iron fist. Type a personalities that will not be told what to do.
I think we are saying the same thing. I meant pawns as US and NATO used to crush the likes of Sadam under our boot heel to realign the region into what the bankers want. Which you hit upon and that is to control their monetary systems.
Spurholder
09-17-12, 06:07
http://news.yahoo.com/un-ambassador-says-libya-attack-spontaneous-140208342.html?_esi=1
Speaking of deceiving the masses...all I can say is, "wow..."
Excerpt:
"But Ambassador Susan Rice said evidence gathered so far shows no indication of a premeditated or coordinated strike. She said the attack in Benghazi, powered by mortars and rocket-propelled grenades, appeared to be a copycat of demonstrations that had erupted hours earlier outside the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, spurred by a YouTube film attributed to a California man mocking the Prophet Muhammad."
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_destabilized_the_middle_east_on_purpose.html
Obama Destabilized the Middle East on Purpose
By Karin McQuillan
On Fox News Wednesday night, both Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity were full of self-congratulatory comments about how they had easily seen the Muslim Brotherhood problem with the "Arab Spring," and how could Obama have failed to see it? Duh. Of course, our State Department and White House knew that the Muslim Brotherhood would be taking over Egypt. It was obvious to any reasonably informed ordinary citizen.
The same debate we've seen over Obama's destruction of the American economy has already begun over his Middle East policy. Did Obama hand Egypt over to jihadis, and is he giving a green light to nuclear Iran, because of incompetence or his leftist ideology?
John Hinderacker over at Powerlineblog.com writes:
You could call his actions in the region incoherent, except that it's worse than that, especially if you take into account his hostility toward Israel. If a consistent principle can be deduced, it is that Obama wants to avoid doing anything that might advance U.S. interests. Maybe that's the answer, or maybe he just doesn't care enough to formulate a real policy. Be that as it may, one thing is clear: but for Obama's feckless participation in the overthrow of Egypt's and Libya's governments, yesterday's events would not have happened.
The answer, of course, is both incompetence and ideology. Muddle-headed ideologues of the left, such as our president, want America to be brought down to size. They truly believe that violent jihadi hate-groups can be tamed by appeasement, because the evil parties are Israel and America. So Obama helps depose Mubarak and Gaddafi, knowing they will be replaced by Islamic supremacists. He tells Israel they are on their own, we didn't really mean it about being allies. He blocks attempts to prevent a nuclear Iran, even by economic sanctions, because he doesn't like American shows of force and thinks we can live with a nuclear Iran. We lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, didn't we? Are we against Arabs, that we think they shouldn't have nuclear weapons, too? It sounds like a joke, but it isn't.
Incompetence was also in full force this 9/11. The attacks in Egypt and Libya were preventable. Why weren't our embassies and consulates in the Middle East properly protected? Why are fifty Marines sent in after the fact? Why didn't we have intelligence in advance? When the mob was gathering outside the Cairo embassy, the frightened staff issued an apology. What is wrong with our diplomatic corps if that was their response? Clinton should have gotten on the phone to the Muslim Brotherhood President Morsi and explained to him what would happen if he didn't protect our embassy. The rent-a-riot, inflamed purposefully by publicizing an obscure anti-Mohammed video, should have been stopped before they got anywhere close to our embassy.
When the embassy did issue their pathetic attempt at appeasement, and reissue it after our flag was torn down, Obama should have made a strong statement immediately, one that indicated that there are repercussions for attacking America. Instead, he allowed the apology to stand (for nine hours) until Romney condemned it. Desecrations of our flag didn't get the president's attention, but electoral politics did.
Obama's incompetence is an outgrowth of a broadly based Democrat ideology that wants us to believe that the war on terror was a stupid Bush idea. They accuse Republicans of exaggerating the jihadi threat. They smear any public figure who is concerned about the global Islamist war with the label "Islamophobe."
Obama, along with many liberal Democrats, believes that American strength is immoral. We shouldn't impose our views on other nations. So when the Muslim Brotherhood made its move last year, using the "Facebook revolution" as cover (and a very transparent cover it was), we abandoned Mubarak and told the Egyptian military to stand aside. We purposefully let the Middle East's oldest terror organization take over the Middle East's most populous country.
The Muslim Brotherhood is considered the father of the jihadi movement. It was adopted by Adolf Hitler under the Third Reich and grew from a languishing 10,000 members to a million strong by the end of World War II -- Hitler's permanent legacy for world destruction. Yet our president and State Department believe in embracing the Brothers as modernizing moderates.
The Brothers started the modern jihadi movement, complete with a genocidal program against Jews. In the words of Matthias Kuntzel, "[t]he significance of the Brotherhood to Islamism is comparable to that of the Bolshevik Party to communism: It was and remains to this day the ideological reference point and organizational core for all later Islamist groups, including al-Qaeda and Hamas."
Mubarak was the reason there have been no attacks by Arab states on Israel for thirty years. The 1979 Camp David accords neutralized Egypt as a player in the Arab war against Israel. To protect his own life and power, Mubarak kept the Muslim Brothers of Egypt under control. In return, Egypt has been receiving a billion and a half dollars a year -- payoff money from the United States. Egypt didn't agree to a friendly peace, and it wasn't a democracy, but in terms of Middle East geopolitics, supporting Mubarak was a critical success factor.
Obama and Hillary threw all that away with their embrace of the Arab Spring. It could have gone differently. We could have spoken out in support of Mubarak, showing the world that we are trustworthy allies. Instead, we abandoned a crucial ally when the mob howled. We could have told the Egyptian military that they had better make sure the Muslim Brothers don't take over the country. Instead, we told them to step aside and usher the Brothers into power.
Hillary's State Department proclaimed that the Muslim Brothers had become moderates. Anyone having a flashback to the Carter era, when all the liberals knew that the Ayatollah Khomeini would be a partner for peace?
The Obama Doctrine on the Middle East was hinted at in the president's 2009 Cairo speech, during a Middle East tour in which Obama did not visit Israel. Obama apologized for our war on terror. "The fear and anger" after 9/11 "led us to act contrary to our ideals," he told the Egyptian crowd. In a speech in France, Obama declared that America must make deep cuts in our nuclear arsenal, because otherwise we don't have "the moral authority to say to Iran, don't develop a nuclear weapon."
President Obama fought Congress tooth and nail on imposing economic sanctions against Iran this year -- already too little, too late. According to vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan, the White House did everything they could to stop Congress from requiring sanctions, and then they used the waiver provision to gut them. There is no benign explanation for this. Left-wing anti-colonialists -- and our president is one -- think Iran will use its nuclear weapons responsibly.
One of the most chilling visuals in 2016: Obama's America is a map of the world's nuclear arsenals. Obama has already cut our nuclear warhead arsenal from 5,000 to 1,500 (in an "arms treaty" that allowed Russia to increase its arsenal). He has asked the Pentagon to report to him on reducing our nuclear warheads to 300. That's about the same number as France. Pakistan has 110 nuclear weapons. Obama, it seems, believes in equality in national defense, as well as in class warfare.
In July, five conservative congressmen, including Michele Bachmann, expressed alarm over evidence that the Muslim Brotherhood has succeeded in placing operatives in key positions throughout the Obama administration. In Bachman's words, State Department polices "appear to be a result of influence operations conducted by individuals and organizations associated with the Muslim Brotherhood." Instead of backing up Bachmann, our Republican leadership joined in Democrat attacks on her.
The policies Bachmann listed are not trivial. The Obama/Clinton team defied a congressional resolution to hold up our 1.5 billion dollars to Egypt until we knew they were still allies. Paying off Mubarak made sense. Handing billions to a Muslim Brotherhood Egypt, not so much. Do you think Egyptian President Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood candidate, would have allowed a mob to attack our embassy if these funds were in play?
Congressman Bachman is concerned, based on Frank Gaffney's analysis, that our Department of Homeland Security may have eight Muslim Brotherhood members in key advisory roles, including the Countering Violent Extremism (CVE)'s Working Group, which is responsible for training homeland security agents. The CVE will be using federal Homeland Security funds to funnel money to Muslim Brotherhood organizations in the United States, in the name of a "community-oriented policing approach." The Homeland Security Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties has established the policy of protecting "terrorism-precursor activities" as "cultural behaviors."
Congressman Bachmann questioned why the DHS official lexicon equates jihadi extremists with "Christian patriots" and "Constitutionlists." She asked about Huma Abedin, Hillary's closest adviser at State, who formerly worked for a Brotherhood organization, founded and funded by Abdullah Naseef, who also finances al-Qaeda. There is no question that Abedin helps Clinton formulate U.S. Middle East policy.
The sorry list goes on and on. (For more details, see Frank Gaffney's "The Muslim Brotherhood in the Obama Administration.")
The point here is not only that the Muslim Brotherhood is influencing American foreign policy. The arrow points in both directions: the Obama/Clinton policy of tolerating and even promoting the power of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is the same policy that promotes their front groups in America. It is the liberal idiocy that our enemies are friends, and our friends enemies.
Obama has signaled clearly and repeatedly that America no longer has Israel's back. He could not have done anything more effective to sabotage negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians than his public pressure on Israel to declare unilaterally they will withdraw to their 1948 borders. Obama bypassed congressional limits on aid to the Palestinian Authority after their alliance with Hamas, putting $200 million into the hands of one of the most vicious and dangerous terror groups in the Middle East. And he has signaled to the Iranians that Israel is on its own. Then there are the personal but well-publicized snubs to the Israeli prime minister, and the open mike revelations of Obama's contempt and dislike for Bibi. Obama has time to go on the Letterman show in New York next week, but he refuses to meet with Netanyahu, as the go/no go decision on bombing Iran stares Israel in the face.
Abandoning Israel invites war. But in Obama's mind, he is promoting fairness. He thinks Israel is the problem. He thinks that harming Israel will win America friends among Arabs. He thinks he is pressuring the Israelis to stop being bad guys.
Obama is purposefully harming American interests, but he thinks it will turn out okay. He attacks the American economy and free-enterprise system, and he thinks it will turn out okay. He attacks our energy industry, and he thinks it will turn out okay. He attacks the rule of law and our Constitution, and he thinks it will turn out okay. He undermines the hard-won stability of Egypt and thinks it will turn out okay. We have a president who thinks American national security interests, power, and prosperity are the problem. Then, when it's a broken mess, he's surprised, and he asks for more time to do more of the same. Obama is the problem.
The Middle East is a harsh taskmaster. It is no place for an aging schoolboy leftist like our president. In the real world, stupid ideas such as the one dominant in Obama's administration, that jihadis really want peace -- such ideas have very bloody consequences. The tragic deaths of our diplomats in Libya are only the beginning. Iran looms over us all.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_destabilized_the_middle_east_on_purpose.html#ixzz26kGFjtAz
Thanks for posting that 500. This is what I was inferring in post #20.
VooDoo6Actual
09-17-12, 11:59
redacted.
." Instead of backing up Bachmann, our Republican leadership joined in Democrat attacks on her.
Bachman, the very best member of congress, has routinely been targeted by our rinos for marginalization...
VooDoo6Actual
09-17-12, 12:58
redacted.
Moose-Knuckle
09-17-12, 13:24
So I just read that the SEALs were working for State as "contractors" to locate and destroy MANPADs lost during the uprising. Are we supposed to read "contractors" as CIA assets?
RIP
I'm reading them in the employ of DOS.
Was deadly attack in Libya 'spontaneous' or planned?
Ruh roh raggy! :secret:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/was-deadly-attack-in-libya-spontaneous-or-planned-30617902.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fpolitics-15749652%252Fwas-deadly-attack-in-libya-spontaneous-or-planned-30617902.html
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-17-12, 13:26
None of this really matters. Nothing will come of the end result, our Gov will deny deny deny, and life will go on. Americans will continue to fight over gay marriage and the world will close in on us inch by inch.
Half of the country is angry, the other half thinks we got what we deserved...
Reagans Rascals
09-17-12, 13:34
Am I the only one deeply angered by the sheer lack of emotion from our President....
I watched the "coming home"/ funeral procession of those killed in Libya and never once did I see mien Fuhrer display even one single human emotion...
I for one would expect some off-the-cuff fist slamming.... saying "GOD DAMN IT THIS PISSES ME OFF AND THIS SHIT WILL STOP RIGHT NOW" from the man that is supposed to be leading this nation...
there is a time for composure and there is a time to "turn it up" so to speak to instill confidence in those who must follow you... if they finally see some emotional investment on your part maybe they too will become emotionally invested and we can work together to get this shit straight...
but no... he just stands up there... panders... reads a god damn prepared speech... that he didn't write or even have the god damn decency to memorize... he read it right from the podium.... I was taught in ****in 10th grade speech class that you loose points if you have to look at your note cards.... so seriously what the ****... I have yet to ever see him just say **** the note cards.. I am going to speak from the hear today and say what needs to be said.. .and actually add some inflection and emotion to my words...
I mean... at least Bush knew when to be emotional.... he cried while awarding the MOH to Lt. Murphy's parents...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM2tC5wMkoQ
just something I'm beginning to grow tired of.... I don't trust people that don't lose control, that don't become emotional at least once in a while... because that means they are a god damn cyborg... or a terminator.... oh... and I also don't trust anything that bleeds for a week and doesn't die... those are my two bugaboos....
VooDoo6Actual
09-17-12, 14:32
redacted.
Here's what I can tell you.
I'm not suggesting your doing it on purpose either as it's a normal/typical question. You are now idling on a topic that is not appropriate for internet discussion & is classified.
Understood. I'll redact my question.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Ayaan Hirsi Ali finally weighs in on the current conflagration:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/16/ayaan-hirsi-ali-on-the-islamists-final-stand.html
Notice the coincidental TIMING, here's the shiny Knight to save the day. GMO FOOD from Monsanto. Tag line & clever quips "Here I come to save the day"...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/story/2012-09-03/drought-tolerant-seeds/57480902/1
Hope it's not this stufff.......
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html
VooDoo6Actual
09-17-12, 19:18
redacted.
Am I the only one deeply angered by the sheer lack of emotion from our President....
I watched the "coming home"/ funeral procession of those killed in Libya and never once did I see mien Fuhrer display even one single human emotion...
I for one would expect some off-the-cuff fist slamming.... saying "GOD DAMN IT THIS PISSES ME OFF AND THIS SHIT WILL STOP RIGHT NOW" from the man that is supposed to be leading this nation...
there is a time for composure and there is a time to "turn it up" so to speak to instill confidence in those who must follow you... if they finally see some emotional investment on your part maybe they too will become emotionally invested and we can work together to get this shit straight...
but no... he just stands up there... panders... reads a god damn prepared speech... that he didn't write or even have the god damn decency to memorize... he read it right from the podium.... I was taught in ****in 10th grade speech class that you loose points if you have to look at your note cards.... so seriously what the ****... I have yet to ever see him just say **** the note cards.. I am going to speak from the hear today and say what needs to be said.. .and actually add some inflection and emotion to my words...
I mean... at least Bush knew when to be emotional.... he cried while awarding the MOH to Lt. Murphy's parents...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM2tC5wMkoQ
just something I'm beginning to grow tired of.... I don't trust people that don't lose control, that don't become emotional at least once in a while... because that means they are a god damn cyborg... or a terminator.... oh... and I also don't trust anything that bleeds for a week and doesn't die... those are my two bugaboos....
You are quite right. It is because he doesn't care one whit. He likes to campaign and tear others down. He likes to bluster at meetings with underlings and Congress. But he has no clue how to govern, to lead, or be human. he has no clue how to interact with foreign leaders unless he is bowing or wowing them. If the focus is not on HIM as being a demi-god then it just does not register in his brain as something he needs to think about. His campaign is 1,000 times more inportant than any national crises.
VooDoo6Actual
09-17-12, 19:49
redacted.
I think your giving them too much credit.
I'm going w/ brain dead Zombietards who have a spine of a Jellyfish.
But to some I'm, probably a racist too. Go figure.
Unfortunately, the left leaning media and the longevity that these conflicts have made our fickle culture numb to the brutal realities of our savage world. The protections provided by those whom serve will never be fully realized by many whom take for granted just how great being American really is.
Having the distinction of serving with one of the fallen in Libya I will always be humbled by all those whom serve and sacrifice to preserve that American Greatness.
Voodoochild
09-17-12, 20:59
Unfortunately, the left leaning media and the longevity that these conflicts have made our fickle culture numb to the brutal realities of our savage world. The protections provided by those whom serve will never be fully realized by many whom take for granted just how great being American really is.
Having the distinction of serving with one of the fallen in Libya I will always be humbled by all those whom serve and sacrifice to preserve that American Greatness.
Rana first and foremost thank you for your service. I know what you do and what those at the tip of the spear do isn't an easy job and is a sacrifice many of us in the US will never know or begin to comprehend.
The deaths in Libya hit real close to home for me. I didn't know Sean Smith personally but I worked the same job he did when I was with the State Dept. I was in West Africa and ironically the State Dept had sent out a world wide call for volunteers to go and help in Benghazi.
I had spoke to my boss about throwing my hat in the ring to go and help but was shot down. It makes you wonder what if...
COLONEL: HILLARY MADE DECISION NOT TO POST MARINES AT BENGHAZI
by MICHAEL PATRICK LEAHY
In an exclusive interview with Breitbart News, Fox News military analyst Colonel David Hunt laid the blame for the murder of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans at the Benghazi, Libya American mission on Hillary Clinton and the State Department:
The State Department just allowed our guys to get killed. If you approve no bullets in guns for the mission security guards and an outhouse for a mission, you’re inviting it.
Earlier, on Howie Carr's radio show Thursday, Colonel Hunt said that the American mission at Benghazi "was like a cardboard building, there wasn't even bullet proof glass." In addition, Hunt said the security guards inside the mission didn't have bullets:
Howie Carr: They weren't allowed to have bullets, is that correct?
Colonel Hunt: That's true. They were private security. The rules of engagement were ridiculous.
Hunt told Breitbart News that the new State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya, approved and signed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton since the 2011 fall of Khadafi's regime, severely compromised the safety and security of murdered Ambassador Stevens and all American diplomatic staff in Libya. He also stated that the decision not to staff Benghazi with Marines was made by Secretary of State Clinton when she attached her signature to the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya document. Breitbart News has subsequently learned that under those rules of engagement, Secretary Clinton prohibited Marines from providing security at any American diplomatic installation in Libya.
Hunt told Breitbart News that "the rules of engagement have been changing drastically over the last 10 years. . . The reason the surge in Iraq worked was we had another 40,000 soldiers and the rules of engagement were changed to allow our guys to shoot. What’s happened in Libya is the final straw of political correctness. We allowed a contractor to hire local nationals as security guards, but said they can't have bullets. This was all part of the point of not having a high profile in Libya."
According to Hunt, the debacle at the American mission in Benghazi is directly the result of Obama's new policies. "The policy of the Obama administration led to this," he said. "It was the policy of the Obama administration to have a low profile in Libya. That's why the rules of engagement were approved by the Secretary of State to have no Marines at Benghazi, and to have an American contractor hire Libyan nationals to provide security there. The rules were they couldn't have ammunition."
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-17-12, 21:21
A link and an excerpt will suffice...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59678
Reagans Rascals
09-17-12, 21:24
If you approve no bullets in guns for the mission security guards and an outhouse for a mission, you’re inviting it.
I faintly remember another such situation in a little shit hole of a place called Beirut... circa 1983... didn't work so well then either... but then again... I guess things really don't change much in 29 years...
....Shortly after the barracks bombing, President Ronald Reagan appointed a military fact-finding committee headed by retired Admiral Robert L. J. Long to investigate the bombing. The commission's report found senior military officials responsible for security lapses and blamed the military chain of command for the disaster. It suggested that there might have been many fewer deaths if the barracks guards had carried loaded weapons and a barrier more substantial than the barbed wire the bomber drove over easily......
I faintly remember another such situation in a little shit hole of a place called Beirut... circa 1983... didn't work so well then either... but then again... I guess things really don't change much in 29 years...
That is what I was thinking of too when I heard the security detail was not armed. After Beirut you'd a thunk just maybe...
Has any American embassy actually employed firearms in defense of embassy grounds since 1968 TET? I don't think they did in 1979 in Tehran, nor in Lebanon.
Just how are TOP SECRET papers and computer systems, and PERSONNEL supposed to be protected from capture or destruction if the embassy, vehicles, and missions do not have armed security?
I guess our administration and diplomats are so clueless that they know or discuss anything confidential enough to warrant armed security. Pieces of meat.
Littlelebowski
09-18-12, 07:53
Comments from an SME elsewhere and well worth your time.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91345&viewfull=1#post91345
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91399&viewfull=1#post91399
Comments from an SME elsewhere and well worth your time.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91345&viewfull=1#post91345
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91399&viewfull=1#post91399
Interesting reading. I think the most important bit of information, which will likely never be fully known, is whether or not the Ambassador himself felt as though he had adaquate security just before the attacks. He knew the region, it's circumstance and it's people just as good if not better than anyone. I know that poster believes Ambassador's generally may not have been able to fully understand the threats around them, however by all accounts he seems to be a possible exception.
If any evidence of him being concerned or fearful in the days leading up to the attack comes to light, it would be devastating to many in the administration.
VooDoo6Actual
09-18-12, 14:27
redacted.
dwhitehorne
09-18-12, 17:06
Comments from an SME elsewhere and well worth your time.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91345&viewfull=1#post91345
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91399&viewfull=1#post91399
Second time I have read that MGS's don't protect the people or the building just the classified information. Well I haven't been on the program since 1993 so the rules of engagement may have changed, but in class 4-90 the lesson plan (I still have them) reads Deadly Force was authorized to protect Personel, Property and Classified Information within the Embassy. It was always stressed that it was in that order. I've been to a few places as MSG and with another agency and most of the small missions don't have much classified anyway. Their burn time is measured in minutes, not hours. I've never met a Former SEALs that aspired to be a MSG's. It sounds like that SME has the DoS terms down, but was not ever part of MSG Battalion. David
Littlelebowski
09-18-12, 17:38
Yes, he was not ever part of MSG.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
VooDoo6Actual
09-18-12, 19:02
redacted.
ForTehNguyen
09-18-12, 19:14
jesus what an utter flustercuck this whole thing is
State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland said the American security presence inside the mission perimeter was "robust."
I wonder if Ms. Nuland considers furniture built from matchsticks to be "robust" as well? :(
FWIW, in my AOR the State Dept. has a terrible rep. I do my level best to avoid any situation requiring coordination or information sharing with them. :(
VooDoo6Actual
09-19-12, 09:29
redacted.
It has to do with lowering the bar for American exceptionalism, and drumming down the city on the hill for believing we have no better position in the world than anyone else...or...in this case, even lower than Libya. We're at fault because someone here made a video so we have to say we're sorry we have right's.
Same reason we have to think every American is a potential terrorist and subject them to sexual assualts to get on a plane. Everyone gets drummed down to the lowest common denominator world wide, and thus everyone is a terrorist untl proven otherwise. Even the new mother with breast milk for an infant or a little kid with a teddy bear.
Why'd we bomb the shit out Libya in the first place? Our world is so out of alignment its insane. We heard for years how Bush didn't have an exit plan in Iraq yet we bomb the shit out of Libya for months, no one knows who is going to take over, and then we shocked when people get killed. Its a ****ing joke and shows how out of whack what we hear is. Same in Egypt, and same will be true for Syria. Obama assists in overthrowing all these countries, radicals take over, and then we are 'shocked' the people aren't little American's wanting to go vote for their Representative like we do for Congress here or even when they do vote the radicals take power.
All I really want to say is the world is full of a bunch of ****ing idiots, less than 1% of them are in charge, and **** up daily life for the rest of us. Some idiot POTUS we have hands over 2 countries to radicals we fought for almost a decade, polls show he is likely to win again, we can't even get a straight answer on if Obama said no to a meeting or not with Bibi, unemployment here is sky high, ****s want to scalp the biggest profit on anything thats sold, wages are going down,
Don't know. None of this shit makes sense, and thats probably because liberal/marxists are in charge of the western world and savage muslims are in charge now of the ME. It makes sense in that perspective how ****ed up things are but I have trouble seeing anything positive coming out of anything anytime soon.
Yep.
Look to the CFR, Bilderbergers, Trilats and other Round Table Groups as to why we have (mistakenly) done what we have. The so-called "Seven Sisters" might shed some light on things, too.
We have painted ourselves into a bleak corner...
I'm often tempted to take your position on this, but IMO a consideration of some common and simple history forces a more optimistic and less fatalistic view.
The Ottoman Empire ruled for 623 years, ending officially in 1922 with the ouster of the Turkish Monarch. For six hundred years the area we call the middle east was under a semi-centralized authority.
While European economic imperialism and military adventurism were pervasive elements throughout this era, it wasn't until just before WWI that France, England, and later the US really started ****ing things up. And when I say ****ing things up, make no mistake, the west screwed up the entire region big-time.
Why should it surprise you that only 90 years after the dissolution of a centralized authority, with constant malevolence / incompetence coming from European and American interference, that there is significant strife and turmoil in the region?
Perhaps you're forgetting the hundreds of years of constant bloodshed that led to the current quazi-stability in Europe and the US. Perhaps you're forgetting that the worst crimes against humanity in the history of the world were perpetrated by Europeans and Russians in the middle of the 20th century, barely more than 50 years ago. That's "modern times," is it not?
It took hundreds of years of instability and millions of lives to get the western world onto the moral high-ground we now like to claim.
The brand new nations of the Middle East aren't as far along in the process because it didn't truly start the process until the 1920's.
I'd take a more careful consideration of history before writing them all off as hopeless barbarians, and be mindful of where we came from and how we got here.
I'm not excusing any kind of twisted behavior here - simply saying that it behooves us to be mindful of history and that 70 years ago the Germans were gassing millions of people. Now they're a productive and leading member of the global community. It does us no good to take as a foregone conclusion that any other civilization cannot do the same.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/20/sumasame.jpg
VERY well put.
Comments from an SME elsewhere and well worth your time.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91345&viewfull=1#post91345
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5334-US-Consulate-Burned-to-Ground-US-State-Dep-Officer-Killed&p=91399&viewfull=1#post91399
Sorry Lebowski, those posts were a waste of time. The overall sentiment I took away from them was "it's complicated". It's not that complicated. Anyone whose security assessment determined that Libya was "relatively safe" and that unarmed local security was sufficient to protect US diplomatic interests is an idiot, at best.
It took hundreds of years of instability and millions of lives to get the western world onto the moral high-ground we now like to claim.
I only quote this part because my takeaway from your post is that we haven't yet killed enough of the feral ones to consider the rest domesticated.
STATE DEPT REVERSES DENIAL OF HIRING BRITISH SECURITY FIRM IN BENGHAZI
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/09/18/After-Friday-Denial-State-Department-Admits-It-Hired-British-Firm-to-Provide-Security-At-Benghazi
In her daily press briefing on Tuesday, State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland admitted that she provided false information Friday about the State Department's hiring of private security firms for the American mission in Benghazi attacked on September 11th:
MS. NULAND: Thank you for that, because there was an error in what I said. The external security, external armed security, as we have been saying, outside of the perimeter, was fully handled by the Libyan side. There was no contract – contracting out of that. There was a group called Blue Mountain Group, which is a private security company with permits to operate in Libya. They were hired to provide local Libyan guards who operated inside the gate doing things like operating the security access equipment, screening the cars, that kind of thing.
<snip>
MS. NULAND: I’m going to let them self-identify on that front. But the people who were hired were Libyans.
Nuland continued with reporters, "There’s nothing else that I have that needs correcting at the moment."
<snip>
So to summarize, the State Dept. lies to the public. When they get called on that, their response is "sorry I lied, but here's a portion of the correct information. BTW, I'm not knowingly lying from here on out."
Riiight... :rolleyes:
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-20-12, 14:16
One of my favorite videos to come out recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg&feature=youtu.be
And another good one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4YMbsEm3ms&feature=autoplay&list=UUWOkEnBl5TO4SCLfSlosjgg&playnext=2
VooDoo6Actual
09-20-12, 15:53
redacted.
Bin Laden driver suspected of organizing killing of US ambassador in Libya
And let me guess, this suspect used to be locked up just south of the USA?
Belmont31R
09-20-12, 18:14
Amazing the press takes Romeny's comments out of context, and accuses him of speaking before knowing the facts but Obama Admin gets a free pass this entire time for spewing BS. :rolleyes:
The media sucks in this country, and is pure garbage.
Reagans Rascals
09-20-12, 18:38
Amazing the press takes Romeny's comments out of context, and accuses him of speaking before knowing the facts but Obama Admin gets a free pass this entire time for spewing BS. :rolleyes:
The media sucks in this country, and is pure garbage.
HOW DARE YOU DISPARAGE MEIN FUHRER!!!!
WHY I'VE GOT HALF A MIND TO REPORT YOU TO THE GESTAPO...
Belmont31R
09-20-12, 18:52
HOW DARE YOU DISPARAGE MEIN FUHRER!!!!
WHY I'VE GOT HALF A MIND TO REPORT YOU TO THE GESTAPO...
Eh I watched that fox news interview with the UN ambassador live. Knew it was BS as was all the state dept press conferences. While he admin was lying it ass off the media was focusing on Romney.
This shit has been happening for a long time. The media is so one sided its ****ing garbage coverage. We don't have news here. We have democrat mouth pieces who give the communist version of events.
Moose-Knuckle
09-20-12, 19:32
This is why I DON'T watch a.) the f***ing "news" b.) take a paper or c.) subscribe to any weekly periodicals. No need to pay them to brainwash me.
Bin Laden driver suspected of organizing killing of US ambassador in Libya
http://rt.com/usa/news/stevens-laden-terrorist-attack-597/
And let me guess, this suspect used to be locked up just south of the USA?
And they knew he was back in Libya working for AQ, which goes right to my earlier comment that anyone who claimed Libya was "relatively safe" is an idiot
This is why I DON'T watch a.) the f***ing "news" b.) take a paper or c.) subscribe to any weekly periodicals. No need to pay them to brainwash me.
I am with you. We even cut off our dish network 3 or 4 months ago because the channels were nearly all junk.
Moose-Knuckle
09-22-12, 15:05
Benghazi attack: Why the White House changed its story
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2012/0922/Benghazi-attack-Why-the-White-House-changed-its-story
VooDoo6Actual
09-22-12, 17:28
redacted.
VooDoo6Actual
09-22-12, 17:36
redacted.
You are paying attention.
I'm sure that there are many minor aspects of this incident which we don't know, but can you explain what you believe is the big picture most of us are missing in your opinion? I am genuinely curious, not poking sarcasticly.
Belmont31R
09-22-12, 18:37
I'm sure that there are many minor aspects of this incident which we don't know, but can you explain what you believe is the big picture most of us are missing in your opinion? I am genuinely curious, not poking sarcasticly.
He is destabilizing countries next to Israel.
He is destabilizing countries next to Israel.
In order to...
Well I suppose I can wait for the answer, but rest assured I will be expecting one. Unless of course it might make someone somewhere uncomfortable to clarify. And if this is the case, that means that either someone fears government retribution or fears they will be criticized.
Keep in mind that I personally like both you and Hop, just trying to understand. You see if our government is trying to ensure the destruction of Israel then it is relevant to the discussion.
CarlosDJackal
09-22-12, 19:47
Amazing the press takes Romeny's comments out of context, and accuses him of speaking before knowing the facts but Obama Admin gets a free pass this entire time for spewing BS. :rolleyes:
The media sucks in this country, and is pure garbage.
This is my surprised face --> :blink:
This is my surprised face --> :blink:
Thing is as obvious as it is to some, there is still a need within the frustrated, communicative few to make sure that we haven't been transported to the fourth dimension.
I'll quickly add that my post above was worded poorly. Not looking to sound arrogant or entitled, just believe in a higher standard of accountability.
Belmont31R
09-22-12, 21:07
In order to...
Obama has turned a cold shoulder or been at best neutral with Israel since he took office. Since Carter at least every president has supported Israel. This guy, at times, is openly hostile just like this latest scheduling mishap or Obama thumbing his nose at Bibi.
I think Obama WANTS Israel surrounded by radical muslim nations.
Belmont31R
09-22-12, 21:10
Thing is as obvious as it is to some, there is still a need within the frustrated, communicative few to make sure that we haven't been transported to the fourth dimension.
I'll quickly add that my post above was worded poorly. Not looking to sound arrogant or entitled, just believe in a higher standard of accountability.
Im not surprised at it. The media is openly leftist and proud of it. I just wonder how much right leaning politicians can take when most of the media is openly hostile and hypocritical.
VooDoo6Actual
09-22-12, 22:26
redacted.
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