View Full Version : Top U.S. military officer calls pastor over film
WTF?
General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke with Pastor Terry Jones by phone on Wednesday and asked him to withdraw his support for a film whose portrayal of the Prophet Mohammad has sparked violent protests - including one that ended with the death of America's envoy to Libya.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/12/us-usa-libya-pastor-military-idUSBRE88B1C320120912
Who didn't see that one coming?
Don't forget who the Commander In Chief is.
Dirk Williams
09-12-12, 14:45
Obama at the DNC last week.
GENERAL MOTORS is alive.
OBL is dead. How do you think he feels.
And this political hack is calling a preacher who may be ****ed up but within his rights.
The Hypocracy of it all. This admin is incapable of excepting the responsibility of its actions. It's always someone else's fault.
DW
VooDoo6Actual
09-12-12, 15:59
"Winning Hearts & Minds" sure you bet NOT, while our country is imploding & the hypocracy/double standards/imperialistic world domination is being exposed.
We are in DEEP DooDoo & not getting any traction.
We get to go along for the ride regardless....
EXTRACT !
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-12-12, 16:37
I call BS. There is no way that the Joint Chief's Chairman is going to call an American and tell him that. A political operative maybe. If he did make the call, I think he ought to be court martialed for failing to live up to us oath of protecting the US Constitution.
We are so pathetic. What bothers me is not what our pathetic response has been, but that so much of our citizenry will support this crap.
Isn't it the official policy of the U.S to make the world safe for Islam?
I really hope that a General calling a U.S citizen and requesting that he not take part in is rights is just a misinformed journalist writing on hearsay.
I really hope that a General calling a U.S citizen and requesting that he not take part in is rights is just a misinformed journalist writing on hearsay.
Hearsay from the general's spokesman, perhaps.
"In the brief call, Gen. Dempsey expressed his concerns over the nature of the film, the tensions it will inflame and the violence it will cause," Dempsey's spokesman, Colonel Dave Lapan, told Reuters. "He asked Mr. Jones to consider withdrawing his support for the film."
Moose-Knuckle
09-12-12, 19:41
I'm surprised the pastor is not in Gitmo getting wet on a board.
For those who think it's bullshit or some kind of conspiracy theory why don't you ponder this. Did it ever occur to you that the general was concerned about the troops are deployed in these ****ing countries and possibly bear the repercussions to follow? I was in Afghanistan earlier this year when the Koran burning happened and I was there when the staff sergeant flipped out and murdered a bunchfew of Afghans and trust me it wasn't fun. Our Compound was attacked 3 different times because of that. Maybe you guys should take that into consideration when you're criticizing him for what he said.
I really hope that a General calling a U.S citizen and requesting that he not take part in is rights is just a misinformed journalist writing on hearsay.
"Requesting" is not an infringement of that citizen's rights. That citizen can always say "**** off." If he's thrown in jail, then his rights are being infringed upon.
IG - I was there when that pastor in Florida decided it was a great idea to burn a koran live on tv and the internet... Twice. Yeah, we felt the repercussions of that in Afghanistan too. :/
Dirk Williams
09-12-12, 21:45
This is serious stuff. My wife and I have been considering pulling one of the 401s pre retirement date. Sat with the accountants and then my broker.
Both tried hard to take us out of it. As I was leaving both offices. The accountant and the broker both told me they are buying gold and silver as fast as they can.
Went to the gold silver store and could not believe the amount of people in and out of there in the short time I was there. Being a retired po from here I was amazed at WHO was there as well.
Come Monday I'll be there picking up my order. Worst case it's post tax money now so if everything turns out ok my two kids will get nice size piles of gold and silver when I croak.
DW
Dirk
Belmont31R
09-12-12, 21:57
For those who think it's bullshit or some kind of conspiracy theory why don't you ponder this. Did it ever occur to you that the general was concerned about the troops are deployed in these ****ing countries and possibly bear the repercussions to follow? I was in Afghanistan earlier this year when the Koran burning happened and I was there when the staff sergeant flipped out and murdered a bunchfew of Afghans and trust me it wasn't fun. Our Compound was attacked 3 different times because of that. Maybe you guys should take that into consideration when you're criticizing him for what he said.
A military SSG flipping out and shooting local civilians isn't even close to the same thing as a US private citizen creating a video which is protected under the Constitution. Not sure how you are making the moral connection there.
Having the top military person in the country call up a private citizen and ask they not do something is...:rolleyes: What's the next step?
My opinion is officers at that level are political, and you didn't see most of this shit before Obama got there including this same dude telling retired officers to not bad mouth Obama. GTFO! The military is employed by the citizens of this country to protect our rights not have the military telling us to tone things down. I thought part of the allure of serving and "protecting the country" included the BOR but I guess our rights should be dependent on what some general thinks.
A military SSG flipping out and shooting local civilians isn't even close to the same thing as a US private citizen creating a video which is protected under the Constitution. Not sure how you are making the moral connection there.
Having the top military person in the country call up a private citizen and ask they not do something is...:rolleyes: What's the next step?
My opinion is officers at that level are political, and you didn't see most of this shit before Obama got there including this same dude telling retired officers to not bad mouth Obama. GTFO! The military is employed by the citizens of this country to protect our rights not have the military telling us to tone things down. I thought part of the allure of serving and "protecting the country" included the BOR but I guess our rights should be dependent on what some general thinks.
Gen Dempsey did nothing to infringe on the man's rights.
And I for one agree with what Dempsey did. I have a lot of friends still in Afghanistan... Crap like this is just more recruiting tools for the Taliban and can cause even non Taliban to lash out at Americans still there.
Belmont31R
09-12-12, 22:26
Gen Dempsey did nothing to infringe on the man's rights.
And I for one agree with what Dempsey did. I have a lot of friends still in Afghanistan... Crap like this is just more recruiting tools for the Taliban and can cause even non Taliban to lash out at Americans still there.
That's why people signed up or at least I did. Wasn't to protect only PC interpretations of our rights. All of them. You don't have to agree with how people use their rights but you don't get selectively say Im serving to protect such and such only.
A chairman of the JCOS calling up private citizens to ask they not do something is :rolleyes:
That's why people signed up or at least I did. Wasn't to protect only PC interpretations of our rights. All of them. You don't have to agree with how people use their rights but you don't get selectively say Im serving to protect such and such only.
A chairman of the JCOS calling up private citizens to ask they not do something is :rolleyes:
So wait, you think that if someone asks you not to do something that they're making a law that punishes you for doing that action? Your reading of the constitution needs a little work.
And for the record, I took the oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, just like I'm presuming you did. But you're jumping at the gun here, seeing enemies where there aren't any. The CJCS has no authority to order non-dod civilians to do anything. He didn't even try, he ASKED. Sounds more like you're trying to infringe upon his freedom if speech.
If you don't like the repercussions of a U.S. citizen exercising their rights, then get out of the military! If the U.S. managed their expeditionary wars in a better fashion, it wouldn't be an issue. Fact is, we suck at it.
I served my time and I wouldn't do it again, not with what I now know about how the U.S. military is used. The civilian "leadership" in this country is in a full scale breach of trust with our brave men and women. I fully empathize with your current plight, but I hope someday you'll see that these crises are not the result of a single decision by a single man exercising his rights, but endemic to our country as a whole.
FWIW, the guy who produced this pile of shit is a complete scumbag. I hope he rots in hell for what he's done. However, those of us who swore an oath don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to uphold. :(
So wait, you think that if someone asks you not to do something that they're making a law that punishes you for doing that action? Your reading of the constitution needs a little work.
And for the record, I took the oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, just like I'm presuming you did. But you're jumping at the gun here, seeing enemies where there aren't any. The CJCS has no authority to order non-dod civilians to do anything. He didn't even try, he ASKED. Sounds more like you're trying to infringe upon his freedom if speech.
If he identified himself as a private citizen, then I'd agree with you. If he identified himself as the CJCS, then he abused his title for a non-military purpose. It would be far different if he were retired, but a sitting General Grade officer needs to leave civilian issues of protected rights to civilians. :(
If you don't like the repercussions of a U.S. citizen exercising their rights, then get out of the military! If the U.S. managed their expeditionary wars in a better fashion, it wouldn't be an issue. Fact is, we suck at it.
I served my time and I wouldn't do it again, not with what I now know about how the U.S. military is used. The civilian "leadership" in this country is in a full scale breach of trust with our brave men and women. I fully empathize with your current plight, but I hope someday you'll see that these crises are not the result of a single decision by a single man exercising his rights, but endemic to our country as a whole.
FWIW, the guy who produced this pile of shit is a complete scumbag. I hope he rots in hell for what he's done. However, those of us who swore an oath don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to uphold. :(
If the repercussions are people dying that don't have to die, you're damn right I don't like those repercussions. And I'd do exactly what the CJCS did, ask that person not to do it. But I would not make it illegal for him to express himself nor would I take action against him besides ASKING him to reconsider.
Every time we allow terrorism to cause us to suppress what we stand and fight for and we allow our Gov't to apologize for us exercising our Constitutional Rights we just set the whole war and its purpose 10 steps backward and that is ground we will have to fight for again some day.
Gen Dempsey did nothing to infringe on the man's rights.
And I for one agree with what Dempsey did. I have a lot of friends still in Afghanistan... Crap like this is just more recruiting tools for the Taliban and can cause even non Taliban to lash out at Americans still there.
Given that there is plenty of evidence that the movie thing is complete BS, I'd be far more impressed with the general's concern for the well-being of his troops if he had requested that his CIC not spike the Osama football 21 times during the DNC.
Belmont31R
09-12-12, 23:20
Every time we allow terrorism to cause us to suppress what we stand and fight for and we allow our Gov't to apologize for us exercising our Constitutional Rights we just set the whole war and its purpose 10 steps backward and that is ground we will have to fight for again some day.
Exactly. You attack some dinky consulate, kill the ambassador, and you get the chairman of the JCOS calling some pastor to "ask" him to do something. Shit I'd be doing the same thing again and again until the county in question was sexually assaulting airplane passengers and running VIPR side of the road searches. Oh wait....
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
It's about as smart as going into South Milwaukee with your white rob and hood screaming "All N*&gers must die". Not a smart move.
Given that there is plenty of evidence that the movie thing is complete BS, I'd be far more impressed with the general's concern for the well-being of his troops if he had requested that his CIC not spike the Osama football 21 times during the DNC.
Yep, but he'd get in trouble for that.
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
It's about as smart as going into South Milwaukee with your white rob and hood screaming "All N*&gers must die". Not a smart move.
I'm going to soften my response a little bit. I really do empathize with the blowback this causes you guys. You're stuck between rocks and a hardheads. I appreciate and support what you do and the sacrifices you make on our behalf. It just saddens me that we have the CJCS feeling the need to plead your case to a shithead like this. Where did it go so wrong that it's come to this? :(
Belmont31R
09-13-12, 00:47
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
It's about as smart as going into South Milwaukee with your white rob and hood screaming "All N*&gers must die". Not a smart move.
When was the last time one of our religious nuts in the US killed an Islamic ambassador along with 3 others and burned the their embassy down?
Moral relativism isn't about bring the KKK into things, and walking through a black neighborhood. That comparison is more like justifying the Embassy attacks in the 90's in Africa because some KKK douche put out a video saying he doesn't like blacks. Really? Why does some twirpy malnourished muslim in Libya give a **** what some video some American made? And then justifying the top military man in America calling them and asking them not to do it? Really? I guess we Americans should take some ****wad Libyan mongrel asshole into consideration before I exercise my rights. Oh I want to buy this gun but some euro douche gun nazi doesn't like it so I better not buy it least the euro douche decides to burn our embassy down and murder a few Americans.
If you believe in Islam you can justify just about anything including pedolphilia, murder, and rape. As as American I couldn't give a shit less what some 3rd world Muslim mongrel thinks of my rights and I thought it was American policy to not give into terrorists? Did that change? Now we need the top general in the US to call people up? I'd rather Dempsey be calling in a B52 strike or two than calling up an American and asking them not to do something because a 3rd worlder was offended.
When was the last time one of our religious nuts in the US killed an Islamic ambassador along with 3 others and burned the their embassy down?
Moral relativism isn't about bring the KKK into things, and walking through a black neighborhood. That comparison is more like justifying the Embassy attacks in the 90's in Africa because some KKK douche put out a video saying he doesn't like blacks. Really? Why does some twirpy malnourished muslim in Libya give a **** what some video some American made? And then justifying the top military man in America calling them and asking them not to do it? Really? I guess we Americans should take some ****wad Libyan mongrel asshole into consideration before I exercise my rights. Oh I want to buy this gun but some euro douche gun nazi doesn't like it so I better not buy it least the euro douche decides to burn our embassy down and murder a few Americans.
If you believe in Islam you can justify just about anything including pedolphilia, murder, and rape. As as American I couldn't give a shit less what some 3rd world Muslim mongrel thinks of my rights and I thought it was American policy to not give into terrorists? Did that change? Now we need the top general in the US to call people up? I'd rather Dempsey be calling in a B52 strike or two than calling up an American and asking them not to do something because a 3rd worlder was offended.
Exactly... you cannot modify your freedoms/values to placate an aggressor it will only invite more aggression.
All of the married guys will understand this:p
Well at least the discussion is now about values, not about the CJCS allegedly violating someone's freedoms. :D
I do not think the CJCS should be making this call and given his position it is easily seen as being coercive. With that said,he is trying to make things safer for the troops in every way he can. I can respect that too. The issue to me is that he feels he has to do this because his hands are slightly tied on how this thing should be fought.
To me I look at the traditional definition of war being to overthrow the government of a country by defeating its army. That was down long ago. Iraq too. Those wars were won long ago. The Taliban is not the government anymore but a religious group.
This nation building is a BS theory when dealing with theocracies. We won. Leave them with a warning and bomb them back to a different stone age if they cannot get along nice with the world. We have other things to spend our troops lives and our money on....
The_War_Wagon
09-13-12, 07:20
For those who think it's bullshit or some kind of conspiracy theory why don't you ponder this. Did it ever occur to you that the general was concerned about the troops are deployed in these ****ing countries and possibly bear the repercussions to follow? I was in Afghanistan earlier this year when the Koran burning happened and I was there when the staff sergeant flipped out and murdered a bunchfew of Afghans and trust me it wasn't fun. Our Compound was attacked 3 different times because of that. Maybe you guys should take that into consideration when you're criticizing him for what he said.
Maybe the Marine General, should call some USAF Generals, and ask them to nuke the ever-lovin' SHIITE out of the Mohammedans, seeing as how WE THE PEOPLE'S tax dollars have built those missiles for DECADES, and in that sense, finally give us a REAL payoff on our INVESTMENT. :mad:
If EVERY Mohammedan mysteriously fell off the planet overnight, would the world really MISS them the next day? Yeah, the cabs in NYC wouldn't run, but that's about it.
Last I checked, the purpose of war was to CRUSH the enemy. Period. Maybe if the Marine General were to tell the CiC to go fly a kite, the Marines could DO what they're TRAINED to do, and the Mohammedans could go back to humping, goats, chickens, camels, infants, each other, etc. - OR - their skeletons could just glow in the dark for 10,000 years - because I'm REALLY hard-pressed to give a damn about the lot of them and their bogus religion, which isn't worth a bottle of warm Marine PFC piss - much less any other American's life.
There WAS a time, when Marine Generals were more concerned about kicking enemy ass, than taking phone surveys of American clergy. EVERYONE who either works in the Potomac swamps, or takes their orders from there, seems to have lost their way these days. I'm saddened by that, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised...
Maybe the Marine General, should call some USAF Generals, and ask them to nuke the ever-lovin' SHIITE out of the Mohammedans, seeing as how WE THE PEOPLE'S tax dollars have built those missiles for DECADES, and in that sense, finally give us a REAL payoff on our INVESTMENT. :mad:
If EVERY Mohammedan mysteriously fell off the planet overnight, would the world really MISS them the next day? Yeah, the cabs in NYC wouldn't run, but that's about it.
Last I checked, the purpose of war was to CRUSH the enemy. Period. Maybe if the Marine General were to tell the CiC to go fly a kite, the Marines could DO what they're TRAINED to do, and the Mohammedans could go back to humping, goats, chickens, camels, infants, each other, etc. - OR - their skeletons could just glow in the dark for 10,000 years - because I'm REALLY hard-pressed to give a damn about the lot of them and their bogus religion, which isn't worth a bottle of warm Marine PFC piss - much less any other American's life.
There WAS a time, when Marine Generals were more concerned about kicking enemy ass, than taking phone surveys of American clergy. EVERYONE who either works in the Potomac swamps, or takes their orders from there, seems to have lost their way these days. I'm saddened by that, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised...
Wow. I don't even know where to start.
Yep, but he'd get in trouble for that.
I guess we know just how deeply this general's "concern" goes, then.
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
It's about as smart as going into South Milwaukee with your white rob and hood screaming "All N*&gers must die". Not a smart move.
Like Muslims really need external motivation to riot, bomb, behead...
But the idea that this was just some spontaneous reaction to some movie (which wasn't even made by Jones, apparently), that just happened to occur simultaneously in at least half a dozen countries, and just happened to occur on 9/11, strikes me as implausible at best.
The CJCS calls a private citizen and asks him to stop doing something. Would a reasonable person view that as coersion? That is the question.
If he said "Hi this is Martin, I think you should quit it." Probably not.
If he said "Hi this is the highest ranking military officer in the United States Armed Forces, I think you should quit it." I'm on the yes side.
If you look at Justice Kennedy's "Coersion Test" from Lee v. Weisman, it is applied to prayer in schools. But I can make an argument that by the CJSC contacting a citizen in his offical capacity he is making an "attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce"
I'm no friggen lawyer, but I don't like the way this smells at all.
Army Chief
09-13-12, 11:33
I know and have had several exchanges with General Dempsey, and he doesn't fit the mould of a political pawn in my estimation. It seems more likely that his call was driven by his concern for the troops, and the frustration that we have all felt in dealing with people in these parts of the world.
We view ourselves as soldiers of the United States on a mission to eradicate despotism and give their people a chance for a better life. They view us as crusading imperialists on a mission to crush Islam. So, yes ... it does seem ridiculous that a YouTube video that none of us had ever even heard about prior to two days ago should result in such an uproar, but that kind of overreaction is consistent with what we've seen from the Muslim world in the past.
If Martin Dempsey wants to call the guy that posted it and ask him to consider toning things down a bit until this blows over, then the only part of this that strikes me as unfortunate is that we've chosen to turn it into a news story. Dempsey knows that part of the world, he understands the mentality of the people we're dealing with, and he's probably just trying to make a quick case for timely de-escalation before this becomes about something else entirely.
Given that it is the folks in his charge who will ultimately pay the price should things grow much worse, and knowing the man well enough to have seen the personal concern he has consistently demonstrated for those under his command, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
AC
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
It's about as smart as going into South Milwaukee with your white rob and hood screaming "All N*&gers must die". Not a smart move.
You are correct in what you write, but self-censorship is as onerous as government-imposed censorship. I choose not to censor. Otherwise we all know where this leads. Next we outlaw bikinis because muslims are offended. And we must outlaw Christian missionaries because muslims will get offended. etc etc etc And eventually we have sharia law so that muslims will not be offended.
It is an impossible situation.
Pardon me while I go take a video of my dog crapping on a Koran.
You are correct in what you write, but self-censorship is as onerous as government-imposed censorship. I choose not to censor. Otherwise we all know where this leads. Next we outlaw bikinis because muslims are offended. And we must outlaw Christian missionaries because muslims will get offended. etc etc etc And eventually we have sharia law so that muslims will not be offended.
It is an impossible situation.
Pardon me while I go take a video of my dog crapping on a Koran.
This has jack shit to do with outlawing or censoring anything. Pardon my French.
Maybe you guys should take that into consideration when you're criticizing him for what he said.
Doubtless, but we also need to take into consideration that he could be interpreted as developing a trend of not realizing where the line for "subordinate" stops, and the line for "citizen" begins. Full disclosure, bear in mind that I'm prone to believe the worst about Master of the Universe Complex in anybody over the rank of Major on one side of the house, or in 1stSgts/SgtsMaj on the other.....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/21/dempsey-disappointed-by-anti-obama-campaign-by-ex-military-members/
The cats he's talking about are OUT of the military, can say/do whatever they want via the benefit of onorable discharges, and they made sure that the folks Dempsey's talking smack about aren't the retired ones who are still on the hook, if only after a fashion. They are under NO moral/legal/sensible requirement to say or do anything of "use" to him.
Unless he's being directed/compelled by higher to make such commentary or to make such calls regarding people he can't even begin to presume to have any authority over, he's got little-to-no excuse for opening his gob about or to any CONUS private citizen(s) in the execution of his duties regarding OCONUS activities.
There are federal entities that're used to doing what they can to gradually or drastically erode aspects of the Bill of Rights, and which are capable of contacting anybody they want to make an equally ridiculous request. The IRS, EPA and the ATF leap immediately to mind....:D
Concerned for troops, yeah I get that, only a halfwit wouldn't.....therein we dive into the realm of requiring subordinate commands to make better decisions regarding proper ATFP policies/procedures; he can protect his troops by developing his subordinate leaders to a higher standard. He's got the juice and the mandate to do THAT within the scope of his billet, as much as anybody that high up on the food chain can realistically impact the day-to-day stuff.
As an aside, dude reminds me of Mason Verger, from the movie Hannibal....:eek: not that I'm any kind of frog-turned-prince, surely. One doesn't get to looking like that by living in church!
If this were a competition, Fundi would win the thread for making an excellent joke about the parallels between marriage (*rhymes with 'prison'*) and Islamofascism. I would subscribe to your newsletter.....
"Oh noes, we can't make the Muslims angry...."
I'm sorry, but admonishing an American citizen for exercising his rights because it may offend some mouthbreathing cave dwellers in the asshole of the planet and make them "take it out" on the troops is just pig ignorant. This is nothing more than self-imposed dhimmitude. They don't like how our women are dressed, admonish the harlots for wearing bikinis. They don't like that lots of us are Christians, admonish those who believe in Christ. When does it end? Never, that's when. You can't make Muslims happy, they'll just demand more and more. Just ask the Israelis what it is like dealing with these sub-humans.
If the troops are "endangered" because of an American practicing his rights, remove the troops from the danger zone or eliminate the threat.
For those who think it's bullshit or some kind of conspiracy theory why don't you ponder this. Did it ever occur to you that the general was concerned about the troops are deployed in these ****ing countries and possibly bear the repercussions to follow? I was in Afghanistan earlier this year when the Koran burning happened and I was there when the staff sergeant flipped out and murdered a bunchfew of Afghans and trust me it wasn't fun. Our Compound was attacked 3 different times because of that. Maybe you guys should take that into consideration when you're criticizing him for what he said.
That's along my line of thinking.
I guess we have to just disagree. Some things are just common sense. We know that the Muzzies get pissed and are sensitive about so let's throw some gas in the fire and see what happens. And for the record that idiot in Florida is just as hypocritical as the damn Muslims. What ever happened to who gives a flying shit what your religious beliefs are?
This mindset goes right along with the leftist BS of appeasement.
A video does not give them free reign to burn down buildings and kill diplomats.
In fact, these are opportunities to bring these subhumans out so we can kill them. But no leadership in our country has the balls to do it.
If you say so, but considering I spent 7 years of my life in that theater I know what these people are all about. Nothing justifies what they have done or will continue to do.
But, it doesn't help when idiots intentionally fan the flames to get a rise out of them.
I'd be the first one to push the button if I had a console in front of me. I have several friends that have been killed at the hands of these animals.
RIP. M. Shaw 12/07 An Nasiriyah
RIP. L. Maxwell 10/2009 Kabul
This mindset goes right along with the leftist BS of appeasement.
A video does not give them free reign to burn down buildings and kill diplomats.
In fact, these are opportunities to bring these subhumans out so we can kill them. But no leadership in our country has the balls to do it.
davidjinks
09-14-12, 07:02
So what do you suggest we do about those fanning the flames?
Restrict their free speech?
You may not like what they have to say but isn't that freedom what YOU/ME/EVERY ONE ELSE has fought for?
We have all lost friends in both wars. The fact you bring it up has no bearing on the discussion at hand.
This is just the Army EOD side of the house. All of these names are of soldiers that I went to school with or served with.
SSG ISRAEL P. NUANES 05.2012
SSG MICHAEL J. GARCIA 07.2011
CPT JASON T. MCMAHON 09.2010
SSG DEREK FARLEY 08.2010
SSG MATTHEW J. WEST 08.2010
SPC WADE A. SLACK 05.2010
SSG SHANE BARNARD 05.2010
SSG THOMAS D. RABJON 10.2009
SSG EDMUND LO 06.2009
SFC LAWRENCE D. EZELL 09.2008
SSG BRIAN E. STUDER 08.2008
SGT JAMES K. HEALY 01.2008
CSM JONATHAN M. LANKFORD 09.2007
SSG JOSHUA P. MATTERO 07.2007
SFC SCOTT R. SMITH 07.2006
SFC KEVIN P. JESSEN 03.2006
SSG JOHNNIE V. MASON 12.2005
SSG RUSSEL J. VERDUGO 05.2005
SSG KRISTOPHER L. SHEPARD 02.2005
SSG DANIEL G. GRESHAM 02.2005
SSG ERIC M. STEFFENY 02.2005
CPL CORY M. HEWITT 12.2004
SSG RICHARD P. RAMEY 02.2004
SGT ELIJAH T. WONG 02.2004
SSG KIMBERLY A. VOELZ 12.2003
SSG MICHAEL J. SUTTER 12.2003
SSG JOSEPH E. ROBSKY 09.2003
SGT JAMIE MAUGANS 04.2002
SSG JUSTIN GALEWSKI 04.2002
SSG BRIAN CRAIG 04.2002
SSG ADAM T. HARDING 11.2001
SSG RICHARD N. BOUDREAU II 03.2001
SPC JASON WILDFONG 03.2001
SGT PHILLIP FRELIGH 03.2001
If you say so, but considering I spent 7 years of my life in that theater I know what these people are all about. Nothing justifies what they have done or will continue to do.
But, it doesn't help when idiots intentionally fan the flames to get a rise out of them.
I'd be the first one to push the button if I had a console in front of me. I have several friends that have been killed at the hands of these animals.
RIP. M. Shaw 12/07 An Nasiriyah
RIP. L. Maxwell 10/2009 Kabul
But, it doesn't help when idiots intentionally fan the flames to get a rise out of them.
The idea that these attacks were in response to some movie has been thoroughly discredited, so you no longer have to worry about that.
Dirk Williams
09-14-12, 09:13
For some of you "Switched On" dudes, you sure seem to be way behind the rational, size and scope of this series of incidents.
Movie? I'm smelling a big fat ****ing rat here, have been since the embassy issues on 9/11. Would not be surprised to learn that someone " Brotherhood" related had a hand in this film to Insight the response.
Bottom line, this time line is way to tight for global instantious reaction world wide.
For a couple of you. This was a set up.
DW
This whole movie thing seems like a load of shit to me. They were going to do it anyway. They just blame it on a movie because they know our gov are such pussies they might actually further their goal of sharia law and not saying anything bad about Muhammad. What a ****ing joke we've become. These people are laughing at us.
The movie came out months ago and yet all the arab world only got to see it on the evening of Sept 10th:rolleyes:
Its just like the Koran burning BS, these guys have miles of fodder from us or imagined fodder that they can create fires with anytime and the fact that anyone is biting on the movie bait is sad.
And who cares.... if terrorists who create videos daily of them burning our flag, crucifying Christians & seculars on trees in front of the Egyptian Presidential Palace, burning our presidents effigy, etc. and then a youtube video comes out months before and they all hit our embassies on 9/11 and there after..... come on:rolleyes: Why do we give any creditability to these charades. We should be putting out these youtubes videos everyday until they accept that we are FREE and can say what ever we please. When Nat Geo, History Channel, Discovery, etc. all put out shows being critical of Christ do Christians go burning and killing? Why should the Muslims get a pass? When the Dutch newspaper published the Allah satirical cartoon and the muslims went apeshit every newspaper in the world should have published a similar cartoon in solidarity of FREE speech and to set a precedent and then we wouldn't be having this many problems. They ALL backed down! These scumbags keep pushing and we keep apologizing to them and make compromises in our way of life for them..... now they are not going to stop.
As long as people think the video and anything else that offends them should be banned, why not guns too? If they can modify our 1A then why not the 2A? When the UN comes a calling and says. "USA your guns offend us and some idiot might get ahold of one and cause problems, so we demand you pass more strict gun laws or better yet confiscate them all"...... hey you did it with the First Amendment why not the Second Amendment:eek:
If we need to modify Free Speech to make soldiers jobs easier then why not ban guns to make LEOs jobs easier and ban motorcycles to make the ER surgeons jobs easier and ban interstate travel without permission to reduce gas usage and keep people where the government wants them, .......... the slope is slippery, stay off of the slope;)
The movie protest was a perfect cover for the Behghazi op. This wasn't about a movie and Jay Carney is a lying sack of shit when he claims it wasn't about U.S. policies. :mad:
VooDoo6Actual
09-14-12, 18:27
I think it was a planned coordinated OP. To think that the enemy has/have not adapted to asymmetrical tactics/techniques or knows how to use diversion tactics is naive & ignorant of our leadership's TT&P's & shows the ignorance of media/reporters etc. Clearly the movie did not help either.
To have a 5-6 man detail protecting Valerie Jarret & not have personal at the Embassy / Compound w/ minimal Target Hardening (especially after a recent coup inspired/fomented/funded by -- using AQAM) is also not only arrogance of your own importance, naive & irresponsible BUT more importantly shows a complete disconnect for what the realities of War & people serving down range at any capacity. It clearly shows the warm fuzzy world MoonBats are (notoriously infamous for) again a 'mission fail' status again at the costs of unsuspecting D0S Staff / Security Staff & their families led to unnecessary death by careless TT&P's. Often contracting personnel is there in combat AO's under ATAP or similar program to search & destroy MANPADS et al.
I have been in several Embassies. Even in non-combat zones like Tashkent, Uzbekistan Embassy we had M16's, RPG's/AT4's, M67's available & it was "Hardened" adequately etc.
Assurances dictate they will now. To NOT have any Target Hardened compound w/ adequate staff & armament at the ready in a known Combat Zone is Epic Fail.
Great, tell that to the families of the fallen....
I spoke to a Ranger bud of mine whom is helping w/ the family of one of fallen SEALs in Henderson, Nevada tomorrow.
MY deepest condolences & prayers for strength for the families of the fallen. Valhalla awaits...
More 'Blowback' coming, bank on it.....
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/181170_467060486646517_1800471056_n.jpg
I would like to be the first to call for the resignation of Sec State Hillary Rodham Clinton for gross incompetence, and possible malfeasance (to be investigated later).
http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hillary-two-faced-clinton.jpg
A couple of marines died at Bastion today, the Taliban claimed the attack is in response to the video. Just FYI.
As long as people think the video and anything else that offends them should be banned, why not guns too? If they can modify our 1A then why not the 2A? When the UN comes a calling and says. "USA your guns offend us and some idiot might get ahold of one and cause problems, so we demand you pass more strict gun laws or better yet confiscate them all"...... hey you did it with the First Amendment why not the Second Amendment:eek:
If we need to modify Free Speech to make soldiers jobs easier then why not ban guns to make LEOs jobs easier and ban motorcycles to make the ER surgeons jobs easier and ban interstate travel without permission to reduce gas usage and keep people where the government wants them, .......... the slope is slippery, stay off of the slope;)
Again let me reiterate, because people don't read posts very often it seems: NO ONE is advocating banning free speech. Not IG, not me, not anyone else in the thread. Not anyone in the media either, as far as I can see. So you're arguing against an empty room there M4Fundi.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-12, 09:43
The civilian leadership at the Pentagon should have called the guy, not JCOS.
If the guy tells you to pound sand, what kind of situation are you setting up where the most powerful military man in the world is told off by a nobody?
Military people making movie reviews and edit suggestions are things best left to Rotten Tomatoes.
The civilian leadership at the Pentagon should have called the guy, not JCOS.
If the guy tells you to pound sand, what kind of situation are you setting up where the most powerful military man in the world is told off by a nobody?
Military people making movie reviews and edit suggestions are things best left to Rotten Tomatoes.
Sounds like you're the one advocating censorship. :confused:
Those in the military especially know what the chain of command is, and know that when someone outside of your chain of command wants something done, they can piss off until they pass it through YOUR chain of command.
I've seen an Airman draw his weapon on a G.O. and put him on the asphalt for entering the flight line without authorization. He was correct in doing so and was not punished; he was actually rewarded by the G.O. himself later on. If the lowest of the enlisted know to do this, I don't think this major problem you believe we'll have exists.
VooDoo6Actual
09-15-12, 12:05
The civilian leadership at the Pentagon should have called the guy, not JCOS.
If the guy tells you to pound sand, what kind of situation are you setting up where the most powerful military man in the world is told off by a nobody?
This is part of the WHY they want to change the constitution incl. 1st Amendment. Dovetails into sound bites overheard in past administration that too many individual rights/due process were roadblocks to what they want to accomplish.
Freedom of speech/expression/dissent is the nemesis / enemy to dictatorship's/totalitarianism/tyranny etc.
Can't have it both ways & they know that.
Belmont31R
09-15-12, 15:51
A couple of marines died at Bastion today, the Taliban claimed the attack is in response to the video. Just FYI.
Again let me reiterate, because people don't read posts very often it seems: NO ONE is advocating banning free speech. Not IG, not me, not anyone else in the thread. Not anyone in the media either, as far as I can see. So you're arguing against an empty room there M4Fundi.
They are asking today, and when they get told 'no' they will get frustrated by it, and seek to turn asking into telling.
I still don't understand why a military officer is getting involved in domestic matters. I thought thats why we had civilian leadership at DOD, and civilians are in charge of the government in general? It just strikes me as odd. What would happen if a general called up an American imam and asked him to tone down his speech?
They are asking today, and when they get told 'no' they will get frustrated by it, and seek to turn asking into telling.
I still don't understand why a military officer is getting involved in domestic matters. I thought thats why we had civilian leadership at DOD, and civilians are in charge of the government in general? It just strikes me as odd. What would happen if a general called up an American imam and asked him to tone down his speech?
And the US military is (rightly so) proud of the fact that it is not a political "estate" in and of itself; that it answers to the civilian (citizen) leadership.
But those civilian leaders are (or should be) nothing more than representation of the citizenry at large. The hierarchy doesn't go: Civilian leadership>Military leadersip>Citizenry, it goes Civilian leadership/citizenry>Military leadership.
Someone upthread said Dempsey would get in trouble asking Obama not to provoke the Muslim world by revelling in the killing of OBL. But Obama isn't King; he's nothing more than appointed CEO of the civilian leadership.
So it blows my mind that he felt it appropriate to do the same to his REAL boss, the American citizen, when he apparently didn't have the guts to do it to his boss's appointed, temporary representative.
I see this boiling down to
"Please don't exercise your constitutional rights because muslims will get mad."
...and ban motorcycles to make the ER surgeons jobs easier...
Please don't.
Again let me reiterate, because people don't read posts very often it seems: NO ONE is advocating banning free speech. Not IG, not me, not anyone else in the thread. Not anyone in the media either, as far as I can see. So you're arguing against an empty room there M4Fundi..
You are misguided there buddy. Banning the video is banning free speech. As for what the muppets on the street say..... they say what they are told to say..... if their handlers, clerics, Al Qaeda leaders, etc. tell them to go on a rampage because Lance was juicing they would be be killing American's and burning yellow jerseys and bicycles. Don't believe everything you see on TV:rolleyes:
VooDoo6Actual
09-16-12, 13:09
I would like to be the first to call for the resignation of Sec State Hillary Rodham Clinton for gross incompetence, and possible malfeasance (to be investigated later).
http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hillary-two-faced-clinton.jpg
Don't hold you breath on that one.
She's 'all in', got a chip in the big game, bought & paid for & not going anywhere immediately, just like 'with Holder'
Damage control mode, lock down mode @ D0S, new crisis coming w/ more coverage to let this be ban-aided w/ media spin etc. Send more reinforcements/enforcers of Democracy (Marines for QRF/FAST/MSG etc.) to plug the hole in the Dyke (freudian pun).
LowSpeed_HighDrag
09-16-12, 13:25
May I pose a question?
Whats the difference between a standard ambush from the enemy, versus an ambush motivated by a youtube video? What about if they both result in the death of three Marines? (And dont start jumping my shit, I EAS on thursday from the Corps, Ive risked my life and lost friends too).
Are we seriously gonna say that the enemy wont kill soldiers and Marines if we dont make them mad? THEY.ARE.THE.ENEMY. They were flying planes into our buildings years before we made youtube videos, they were bombing our ships and barracks DECADES before we started talking about burning Qurans.
We have an enemy ITCHING for any excuse to kill. If they cant blame it on a video, they blame it on American involvement in the ME. If they cant blame it on that, they blame in on Abu Ghraib or checkpoint rape or the fact that we exist or the fact that we are in a war with them.
Was America terrified to speak out against the Germans, fearing that they would retaliate and attack? No, because the Germans were our enemy and we were theirs, and killing each other was a mutual hobby no matter the reason.
I'll post this here without giving my opinion one way or another:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f48_1347798609
Saw this quote on a blog today about the FL Pastor:
"If the actions of one man in the USA can undo the efforts of the US Military, 2 terms of one president, and a half a term of another. Then the war in Afghanistan has always been lost."
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