LLC's and NFA

[rushca01]

My family has formed an LLC to purchase some land with and we were thinking about purchasing some NFA items and placing them in the LLC. I personally have NFA items and have always done the CLEO route but now that we have the LLC my father is inclined to now jump in the game. What additional paperwork do you have to send in with Form 1/4's when showing an LLC is the owner? I ran a search and got more info on Trust's than LLC's and this is not a trust. Thanks!

[rjacobs]

Usually just your articles of incorporation from what I found out when I was researching. I ended up NOT going the LLC route though since my sheriff miraculously started signing forms.

[JoshNC]

For liability reasons I would form a separate LLC for the purpose of owning NFA items. We went through this about 10 years ago and our tax attorney recommended we keep real estate/business holdings separate from NFA firearm holdings.

In answer to your question, you send your form-4 in duplicate, certificate of compliance, and articles of incorporation.

[everyusernametaken]

Better yet, create a trust rather than an LLC. No ongoing commitments for tax purposes, among other things.

[rjacobs]

Better yet, create a trust rather than an LLC. No ongoing commitments for tax purposes, among other things.

Forming a trust can not be a blanket statement like that.

While I dont have my NFA stuff under my LLC in Missouri there are no yearly fees and when I do my taxes I simply add a schedule C with zero's in all the boxes. Its not as difficult as some make it out to be.

Now if you are in a state that charges yearly LLC fees(I am not) than yea, doing something else, like a trust, is a better option.

[everyusernametaken]

Forming a trust can not be a blanket statement like that.

While I dont have my NFA stuff under my LLC in Missouri there are no yearly fees and when I do my taxes I simply add a schedule C with zero's in all the boxes. Its not as difficult as some make it out to be.

Now if you are in a state that charges yearly LLC fees(I am not) than yea, doing something else, like a trust, is a better option.

At least in my state, using a trust to buy NFA items, there is no need to file anything with your personal taxes. Even if you're filling out a simple form for your LLC, it's still something you deal with every year. Maybe someone else can clarify if there is any state where a revocable living trust requires specific tax reporting.

[rjacobs]

At least in my state, using a trust to buy NFA items, there is no need to file anything with your personal taxes. Even if you're filling out a simple form for your LLC, it's still something you deal with every year. Maybe someone else can clarify if there is any state where a revocable living trust requires specific tax reporting.

I wasnt inferring that you have to do taxes on a trust.

I hardly consider spending an extra 2 minutes to fill out a Sched C with a bunch of zero's to be "an ongoing tax commitment".

What I was referring to, but I dont think you were so I think our signals got crossed, was some states require a yearly LLC fee which in some cases is like $10(not a big deal) and others I have read as high as $500 a year(big deal). Missouri doesnt charge a yearly fee for the actual LLC so its not a big deal from that perspective.

[everyusernametaken]

I wasnt inferring that you have to do taxes on a trust.

I hardly consider spending an extra 2 minutes to fill out a Sched C with a bunch of zero's to be "an ongoing tax commitment".

What I was referring to, but I dont think you were so I think our signals got crossed, was some states require a yearly LLC fee which in some cases is like $10(not a big deal) and others I have read as high as $500 a year(big deal). Missouri doesnt charge a yearly fee for the actual LLC so its not a big deal from that perspective.

I see. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[khc3]

My family has formed an LLC to purchase some land with and we were thinking about purchasing some NFA items and placing them in the LLC. I personally have NFA items and have always done the CLEO route but now that we have the LLC my father is inclined to now jump in the game. What additional paperwork do you have to send in with Form 1/4's when showing an LLC is the owner? I ran a search and got more info on Trust's than LLC's and this is not a trust. Thanks!

I include the a copy of the Articles of Incorporation, stamped by the SOS of my state when it was first established, and then a printout of the receipt from my annual fees, which is now $50, but used to be $30, and a printout of the webpage from the SOS office showing my LLC in compliance (paid up).

Probably just one of those last two would be enough, but I've always sent both and never had a problem.

[DreadPirateMoyer]

OP, IANAL, but I would highly advise NOT purchasing NFA items with the same LLC that owns family property. My understanding is that doing so opens your family property up to being taken in a settlement against the LLC should some sort of damage be caused with or due to your title II items. Best to keep it separate so that if some sort of damage happens, the assets exposed in your LLC are just your NFA items.

And not to derail the thread, but I really wish people would stop with the "trusts are better than LLCs" generalities. This is a no BS forum, and in some states, that is BS. In mine (PA), LLCs may actually offer far more than trusts, depending on your preferences: sales are easier, there are more legal protections, they last in perpetuity (trusts don't here), and they have no yearly fees nor tax filing requirements with zero income. They're great, and people need to realize the trust vs LLC discussion is much more nuanced than one may think.

[fallenromeo]

I wasnt inferring that you have to do taxes on a trust.

I hardly consider spending an extra 2 minutes to fill out a Sched C with a bunch of zero's to be "an ongoing tax commitment".

What I was referring to, but I dont think you were so I think our signals got crossed, was some states require a yearly LLC fee which in some cases is like $10(not a big deal) and others I have read as high as $500 a year(big deal). Missouri doesnt charge a yearly fee for the actual LLC so its not a big deal from that perspective.

In CA, annual LLC fees are $800 minimum per year. Now CA doesn't allow NFA stuff so that is not an issue as to what is better in this state. But if hell were to freeze over, in this state, A living trust or a grantor trust would be much more beneficial. I am not familiar with limitations on property a grantor trust can hold, but I don't believe there is any. And in a situation of a grantor trust without a third party trustee, there is no additional tax filing requirements.