View Full Version : ARMY boot camp....Who has been to or worked at in the last 15 years or so?
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-13-12, 17:42
So I helped this kid into the National Guard, made a few calls yada yada. He is over at my house the other day(we were building him an AR).
So I am putting the gas block on and he looks at me and says "whats that hole for in the top of my barrel". I looked at him real sarcastically, asking him if he was serious? He said ya, so I said its the gas port. "For what he says" I said really? He had no idea how the weapon functioned at all.
So I proceeded to ask him what they had taught him at boot camp about the weapon. He said nothing, we just shot it and cleaned it. Now it seams fishy as shit to me, either he was pulling my leg or they really didn't teach him.
Whats has your experience been? I didn't go to Army boot camp so I cant relate my experience.
Mr brother graduated from Ft. Benning last October and he said the same thing, "shoot and clean." He knew that the gun operated on gas pressure somehow but he didn't know there was a gas port in the barrel. He's shot my AR and he's asked me about the differences between that and his M4 and it was apparant that he wasn't real familiar with the weapon's internal operation.
High Tower
09-13-12, 18:11
I went through Fort Knox in 2007. They cover the basic function and everything, but nothing really in depth.
I would say where he went through basic would be more the issue and for what MOS, but I doubt they get that in depth with any new recruits. I would assume so curious joes don't screw with stuff they don't know how to put back together.
Shit when I went through osut in 07 we had a couple day power point class on all the weapons and how they functioned. It was pretty in depth. We were taught how to break them down into parts groups, clean, function checks, clear, how each one works, cycles of function, rates of fire, effective and max ranges point and area, the whole light weight gas operated select fire, fire from the open or closed bolt yada yada for each weapon...
Ft. Benning C 1/19 OSUT graduate April 2002. Shoot and clean. Weapons manipulation was almost nonexistent. The only thing I can recall from Basic and the remainder of my time during OSUT was good old S.P.O.R.T.S..
Every time I think about this it blows me away looking at in retrospect. I sincerely hope they've changed their doctrine.
-Jax
I went to Ft. Benning for infantry OSUT last summer. It was pathetic in almost every aspect, especially anything related to shooting. He's not lying at all.
I must of had good ds's then. We were also taught pops, sports, immediate and remedial actions, how to zero with irons and cco, fundamentals.. Then again most of my training was ranges, mout, battle drills and repeat. Plus a good amount of rucking and pt.
polymorpheous
09-13-12, 20:42
It's basic training in the Army.
Boot camp is for the Marines.
Just sayin'
;)
Jax, we were on Sand Hill at the same time.
Only they EPTS'ed my sorry ass home in May.
I went through osut at FT Sill in 2001. Fundamentals, shoot, clean and sports. Anything above that is for an armorer.......
A lot of pt, rucks, land nav, and ftx. About a week on the M2 and another on the MK19. 2-3 weeks of mos on artillery. 13 bravo isn't exactly rocket science.
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-13-12, 21:19
Well I guess based on what you guys are saying its normal for the Army. Thanks guys this really surprised me to say the least.
Littlelebowski
09-13-12, 21:21
Can he outrun you?
So I helped this kid into the National Guard, made a few calls yada yada. He is over at my house the other day(we were building him an AR).
So I am putting the gas block on and he looks at me and says "whats that hole for in the top of my barrel". I looked at him real sarcastically, asking him if he was serious? He said ya, so I said its the gas port. "For what he says" I said really? He had no idea how the weapon functioned at all.
So I proceeded to ask him what they had taught him at boot camp about the weapon. He said nothing, we just shot it and cleaned it. Now it seams fishy as shit to me, either he was pulling my leg or they really didn't teach him.
Whats has your experience been? I didn't go to Army boot camp so I cant relate my experience.
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-13-12, 21:36
Can he outrun you?
No, what are you getting at? Cant wait :D
Littlelebowski
09-13-12, 21:41
No, what are you getting at? Cant wait :D
That there is more important things for a young soldier to know than the purpose of a gas port on an AR. Try getting back with him in a couple of years after he's had time to do some shit that you will never see or do.
It is exactly that - BASIC training. AIT is a stretch though haha.
Heavy Metal
09-13-12, 22:58
We had one of those giant cut-away M-16A1's in Basic that showed function but I already knew about the gas operation and this was 1990 during the dying days of the Cold War.
Jax, we were on Sand Hill at the same time.
Only they EPTS'ed my sorry ass home in May.
Cool! What unit Poly? I was STILL at Sand Hell in May living in the freaking Airborne hold trailers across from the graduation field waiting for an opening at Airborne School. It ended up being pretty cool. While waiting some of us got a chance to attend Javelin school.
-Jax
There is very little in depth information on the how the weapon truly operates and BS wives tales are still abundant. I have actually met 18B's who only had a basic understanding of the weapon and had no clue about things like "dwell time" how changing buffers affects the weapon or even the affects of different sized gas ports.
I have a good friend who was a prior enlisted Marine and Coastie and officer in the Navy and now a Captain in the U.S Army. He is trying to get me down to Ft. Hood to teach my class because the Army weapons' training is abysmal according to him. I trust his word because he also has a background similar to mine.
There is very little in depth information on the how the weapon truly operates and BS wives tales are still abundant. I have actually met 18B's who only had a basic understanding of the weapon and had no clue about things like "dwell time" how changing buffers affects the weapon or even the affects of different sized gas ports.
I have a good friend who was a prior enlisted Marine and Coastie and officer in the Navy and now a Captain in the U.S Army. He is trying to get me down to Ft. Hood to teach my class because the Army weapons' training is abysmal according to him. I trust his word because he also has a background similar to mine.
Man an 18b, that is crazy.
I am glad I had the ds's I had. We didn't get taught gas port variations but we did get taught what it was. We were taught a lot but still basic compared to the knowledge that is out there. One thing I am glad they taught us was round trajectory, and why we zeroed at 25m for 300m. Plus how to adjust where we aim for different target distances and anything that mounts on the rail can change the zero because the rail is not free floating. I didn't think it would make a difference until I got to my unit and my zero would be off slightly when started adding peq2s, taclights an stuff for deployment and I'd have to make minor adjustments.
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-14-12, 06:42
Thanks again for all the insight guys. I guess I was just under the mistaken belief that how the weapon functioned, was part of the basic introduction to the weapons system ie. the blown up cut away drawings and 3d models.
This explains a lot of experiences I have had over the years and assumptions that I have made. I now understand why he didn't know how it functioned. Its kind of sad that they cant find more time in the training cycle to add in 30 min of instruction on how it works and why. If the soldiers who melted their gas tubes knew this from the get go it may have avoided some issues.
When I went through Basic back in 85 we had an over head projector presentation. The DI's went through slide by slide on basic maintenance, disassembly, reassembly and performing a function check. That was it. Nothing in detail about the functioning aspects of the weapon. After that it was all shoot and clean.
telecustom
09-14-12, 07:53
Something you have to remember is instruction and the quality of that instruction is all based on the knowledge and experience of the instructor.
If they are not gun guys or girls, they will not be able to really explain how or why it works. When I teach PMI to Soldiers, I can see very quickly the glossed over look they get when (1) they don’t get it and won’t get it and (2) when they don’t care. I remember in Basic (Benning 1999), over have of my class were medics and they couldn’t give to shits about BRM. There were only 4 Combat Arms guys in the Company and we seemed to be the only ones trying to get something out of the training. And even then, the training was week. The only things our DSs knew about the M-16A2 was what they learned in the DS School.
Littlelebowski
09-14-12, 08:09
There is so much more to worry about for a brand new soldier to know than this sort of thing.
I'm going to have to agree with above. Your taking kids who for the most part have no idea even what an E-tool is and trying to turn them into basic functioning soldiers. Just getting them to learn thier CTT skills is difficult enough. Trying to teach them more advanced weapons functions would be a waste of time.
ICANHITHIMMAN
09-14-12, 10:10
There is so much more to worry about for a brand new soldier to know than this sort of thing.
I understand the point your making
It was impressive how stupid some of those guys were. But there was plenty of time. I'm still kind of in awe about how much time we wasted just sitting around. The army could easily shave entire weeks off of infantry OSUT if time was managed better.
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