I can't find a thread...Dry Firing ?? Yes or No ??

[Tzoid]

I posted in a thread about a month ago where the OP said the trigger on his New M&P Pistol broke while dry firing in an attempt to smooth out the trigger.

Someone posted a good reply in regard to using snap caps and why dry firing is a no no.

Can someone help me find this thread or can I get information on why snap caps are essential and dry firing is bad?

A friend has a new M&P 45 and he's dry firing away and I warned him to use snap caps. I own 9 Sigs and I only occasionally dry fire.

Thank you

[Robb Jensen]

For extended dryfiring with an M&P I highly recommend dryfiring using a Azoom snap cap. I've broken 2 strikers not using one, since using a snap cap I've never broken a striker.

[Jay Cunningham]

While I will not deny the reality that M&P strikers have broken during dry-fire I will say that any modern pistol worth it's salt should be able to endure dry-fire.

IMHO, of course. (about 1700 rds. dry-fire through my M&P 45)

[Tzoid]

That's fast feedback..

I'm trying to convince a friend to get snap caps and he's stubborn.

Rob is my upper done? :)

[Robb Jensen]

That's fast feedback..

I'm trying to convince a friend to get snap caps and he's stubborn.

Robb is my upper done? :)

I was gone to SHOT since Friday, got back late last night. If we got the Gas Buster in by now yes. Everything else is assembled and ready to go.

[sonrider657]

Dry-firing is basically hitting steel on steel whereas with Snap Caps steel is hitting a soft urethane (some use a spring-loaded "primer").

Steel on steel will certainly wear much faster than steel on urethane but it should take many hits before any wear begins to show or adversely affect the gun.

Seeing that a set of Snap Caps is less than $15, just buy a set and put your mind at ease. :)

[rubberneck]

While I will not deny the reality that M&P strikers have broken during dry-fire I will say that any modern pistol worth it's salt should be able to endure dry-fire.

IMHO, of course. (about 1700 rds. dry-fire through my M&P 45)

Dry firing an XD without a snap cap will cause the roll pin that rides through the center of the striker to break and will turn your gun into a paper weight until it is fixed. I bought a bunch of roll pins and change it every couple of months. Cheap insurance for an otherwise good gun.

[ToddG]

While I will not deny the reality that M&P strikers have broken during dry-fire I will say that any modern pistol worth it's salt should be able to endure dry-fire.

With the exception of Glock, no modern handgun manufacturer will tell you it's ok to dry-fire their pistols excessively without a snap cap. A couple hundred or even couple thousand times probably won't cause a problem. Many thousands, the kind of thing serious shooters do regularly, will break almost any gun (including Glocks).

On a Beretta (and to lesser extend a Glock), the firing pin block and firing pin wear, raising a bur and eventually resulting in light primer hits. (a particular Glock's propensity for this will depend as much on the quality of the firing pin block's finish as anything else, since there is wide variance from gun to gun in this regard)

On a SIG, the firing pin positioning pin will break, which usually results in the gun being unable to fire.

On an M&P, the striker breaks, with obvious results.

Snap Cap = Good.

[Jay Cunningham]

I am not suggesting that a snap-cap isn't easier on the gun during dry-fire. But unless I'm overlooking something, dry fire practice would become tedious indeed chasing after that thing each time it ejected from your pistol. When I dry fire, I practice easing to reset as well, and to me doing this 40 or 50 times in a row is not practical with a snap cap.

[MonteSmoke]

what about a saw 38 DA 442?

[ToddG]

I am not suggesting that a snap-cap isn't easier on the gun during dry-fire. But unless I'm overlooking something, dry fire practice would become tedious indeed chasing after that thing each time it ejected from your pistol. When I dry fire, I practice easing to reset as well, and to me doing this 40 or 50 times in a row is not practical with a snap cap.

With my M&P, I never have the snap cap leave the gun unless I want it to. You don't have to rack the slide completely (or much at all, really) to reset the striker on a SFA.

For TDA pistols and most DAO hammer-fired guns, you can just keep pulling the trigger over and over again. For those which lack a double strike capability (the new 'C' model Beretta PX4's, Para LDA, etc.) or those which have ridiculously heavy second strikes (HK LEM), you can still manipulate the slide slightly as with a SFA.

For a SAO gun, just manually cock the hammer.

[Jay Cunningham]

With my M&P, I never have the snap cap leave the gun unless I want it to. You don't have to rack the slide completely (or much at all, really) to reset the striker on a SFA.

If this applies to both M&P's and Glocks, then I just learned something valuable.

Thanks!

[ToddG]

Definitely. I couldn't tell you exactly how far back the slide has to go, but it's not very much at all. In fact, it's less than the distance you'd use to chamber check the gun. I'd have to grab my G17/T tomorrow to see exactly.

[John_Wayne777]

If this applies to both M&P's and Glocks, then I just learned something valuable.


FWIW the striker on a S&W resets in a VERY short period. You don't need to draw the slide back much past the point where the action unlocks.

As a matter of fact, if you pull the slide back far enough to do a press check you've likely pulled it back enough to reset the striker.

[Robb Jensen]

1/2 to 3/4" of rearward travel of the slide on the Glock or M&P will allow for resetting the trigger without extracting and ejecting the snap cap.

[RAM Engineer]

I always thought it would be neat to make a plastic training barrel (like the Blade-tech one for glocks) that had a snap-cap built into it.

However, you would have to have a method for ensuring that the cap is snug against the breech. The rim of the snap-cap and the gun's extractor normally accomplishes this, but a snap-cap permanently attached to a barrel would need to be adjustable, because it wouldn't have a rim. Maybe a screw adjustment at the muzzle like a tube of chapstick...

[RogerinTPA]

For extended dryfiring with an M&P I highly recommend dryfiring using a Azoom snap cap. I've broken 2 strikers not using one, since using a snap cap I've never broken a striker.

Thats what I think happened to my M&P 45. I broke it down but could find nothing out of place. I was barely actuating the slide to reset the trigger during dry firing when the trigger stopped functioning. I sent it back to S&W 2 weeks ago and still waiting on its return and analysis.

I have dry fired the crap out of my full sized Beretta PX-4 Storm, G23 Glock, S&W 6906 and a CZ-82 without issue over the years and without snap caps. I didn't think the M&P line would be so delicate. Maybe it's a fluke or just "Cutting Teeth" on this new brand.

I will be using snap caps in the future.

[ToddG]

It's smart to use snap caps for any pistol. But, there does seem to be a particular propensity for the M&P striker to break from dry-firing. FWIW, Smith is aware of the complaint from people who dry-fire a lot and they're planning to address it in the near future.

[Razoreye]

I've dry-fired my glocks, 1911, and m&p thousands of times. I need to get some snap caps.

[Safetyhit]

I don't dryfire nearly enough, as a post in The Katar's new forum would seem to indicate. Used to do it all the time with some of my guns over the years, but just stopped for some reason. Most likely due to too many warnings that I would break or weaken the pins. So, while trying to determine if I want to make a habit or dry firing my new Beretta without snap caps I came across this thread. Thought it was worth the bump.

I know that I probably can get away with it, but I have decided to get the set of .40 caps and be done with it. Not worth the risk, and with mine being a DA/SA I can keep going without worrying about racking the slide as discussed above.

[6933]

Dry firing is essential in maintaining and developing shooting skills. Never used a snap cap but could look at it as a preventative. HK USP Tactical .45 and an HK Tactical USPc have have probably over a thousand dry fires w/o a prob. Hopefully will be the same with the G17's(4th) I plan on buying soon.:D

[Safetyhit]

Dry firing is essential in maintaining and developing shooting skills. Never used a snap cap but could look at it as a preventative. HK USP Tactical .45 and an HK Tactical USPc have have probably over a thousand dry fires w/o a prob. Hopefully will be the same with the G17's(4th) I plan on buying soon.:D


I do well remember how much it was stressed back when I used to take classes years ago. But I haven't been doing so for a while and therefore it's importance "wore off" so to speak. Still that's no excuse, of course.

As far as dry firing for long durations without incident, it's not so much that I am worried about replacing a part eventually. I just don't want to do it anymore without caps only because I'd rather not deliberately place my weapon in a position to possibly fail when I need it most.

[John_Wayne777]

Having carried a Beretta 92 that was non-functional because of dryfire...and having come close to needing the weapon to deal with some unpleasant ruffians...I heartily endorse your position on snapcaps.

As I've said many times before: They are cheap insurance. By all means use dryfire training, but just realize it breaks guns and take appropriate precautions.

[orionz06]

I always thought it would be neat to make a plastic training barrel (like the Blade-tech one for glocks) that had a snap-cap built into it.

However, you would have to have a method for ensuring that the cap is snug against the breech. The rim of the snap-cap and the gun's extractor normally accomplishes this, but a snap-cap permanently attached to a barrel would need to be adjustable, because it wouldn't have a rim. Maybe a screw adjustment at the muzzle like a tube of chapstick...

I would modify a snap cap with a grinder, remove the lip, and add a means to pull from the muzzle to keep it in there. I am now going to try this.