Griffin Armament M4-SD II

[dmaxfireman]

So after quite a bit of searching I can only find this suppressor / company referenced and cannot find any sort of review on it.

I like the fact that it's QD and mounts directly to the A2, has competitive sound reduction according to the numbers advertised, and has a good price for a first suppressor.

It seems from what I have read the company is almost a taboo subject to talk about, can somebody let me know if the can is a quality unit and a safe purchase or should I look into a different company and product. Just looking for somebody with experience with either the company or somebody who has used the M4-SD or M4-SD 2 who can provide me with a direct answer.

[unseen423]

I have ordered a M4-SDII. Austin @ Griffin has been very helpful in answering my questions. So far, it's been all positive. Can't wait to test it out...now only if my stamp would arrive....

[dmaxfireman]

UPDATED

[markm]

When it comes to cans... I can't tell you how important it is to buy one that is in stock at a dealer near you.

Silencer company people are missing a gene that contains the sense of urgency code. I've truly never heard of a silencer story that contained a person at any of these companies getting off their ass.

I think before ATF grants approval for production they make sure that the people are all absolute **** offs.

[dmaxfireman]

UPDATED

[markm]

You'll be happy with any decent name brand silencer. Don't even sweat the Db ratings. They all sound about the same.

I didn't end up getting the can I wanted, but got a mount system can and am just happy with it.

[quillbro]

I spoke to my brother and he mentioned that you had called and requested a price for a direct purchase.

We have 3 stocking suppressor dealers nationwide- one of those has 9 locations. The suppressors were never popular with dealers so we've often been in a bad place caught between discouraging MSRP's designed to incentivise dealers to stock a product, and customers like you who are in states with ZERO stocking dealers who are often charged massive transfer fees over the top of those MSRP's in an effort to convince a customer to buy a product that is in stock.

Your experience here has taught us that this customer direct pricing model in states which have no stocking dealers isn't going to work.

I'm sorry for your bad experience, but hope you understand no one was intentionally misleading. That $XXX was a price designed to help you purchase our product given you would be paying an unkown and possibly very expensive transfer fee by your local dealer.

By attempting to purchase from your local dealer and not from us, the price changed completely.

Unfortunately suppressors have been a very difficult product to bring to market. Getting them across state lines is crippled by the NFA process, and we are located in an island between Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, and Lake Michigan, so we border no NFA legal suppressor states. That has compounded our problems with reaching this market.

As far as the Nightmare comments, I don't know how to address that, other than to say we are very easy to do business with.

Austin wakes up in the morning like most working people, and takes calls nights, weekends, and is very reachable. I apologize again for your difficulty in this process.

[Magic_Salad0892]

SWR makes one for 5.56mm guns that mounts to A2 FH if I remember correctly.

I'd also look and see if B&T makes one.

Othrwise stick with the essentials. SureFire, KAC, AAC, and Ops Inc.

[SteyrAUG]

When it comes to cans... I can't tell you how important it is to buy one that is in stock at a dealer near you.

Silencer company people are missing a gene that contains the sense of urgency code. I've truly never heard of a silencer story that contained a person at any of these companies getting off their ass.

I think before ATF grants approval for production they make sure that the people are all absolute **** offs.

There is only one exception to this generally true rule. I have had only good experiences with Gemtech.

[prdubi]

Griffin good ..yhm good..just make sure dealer or maker has it in stock.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[ccosby]

Oh well their loss, trying to convince myself that getting away from the A2 FH is acceptable after I had my heart set on keeping it. Plenty more options for me to choose from.

What about the gemtech Halo? It will run on an a1 or an a2 with peal washers to set the timing. It is on the heavy side but from my understanding it is built to take some abuse. I went with it because I was trying to avoid buying expensive flash hiders for every gun I wanted to run it on. I've also had pretty good luck with gemtechs support although i can't say if that is the normal.

[prdubi]

Griffin rates pretty well.

[dmaxfireman]

I had a long conversation with Evan from Griffin this afternoon, brother of the first guy (Austin) that I spoke with. Several issues were cleared up and we worked things out. I am not one to bash a company, just for the sake of bashing, just pass along experiences, and after having an issue and having Evan seek me out to make things right makes him an alright guy in my book.

I will be going ahead with the M4-SD can as of now. I was told they should be shipping in roughly 4 weeks so I will send payment out and have a form 3 started on it.

Will keep this thread updated as to how everything goes.

[dmaxfireman]

M4-SD II arrived the other day and I mailed my Form 4 yesterday. Can is very solid, the spring mechanism to detach is a little awkward and will take some getting used to. Will be very interesting to see how easily (or not) the can removes after a range session. I have 3 uppers to test it on. 2 will have the griffin compensator (10.5 and 14.5) and one will have an A2 hider (16)

[slowkota]

I don't see the M4SD II on their site... Do you just have to call them to purchase?

[quillbro]

I don't see the M4SD II on their site... Do you just have to call them to purchase?

The suppressor is very new. We just finished a production run of them last week. I am taking one to SHOT this year but it will not be on our website for another few weeks. We are getting a different graphic designer/ coding guy to overhaul the look and presentation of our website. It will take a little while. If you have questions about it feel free to email me.

Evan@griffinarmament.com

It metered 34 db reduction yesterday on a 14.5" m4. Poi shift was 1.3" at 100 yards in the prone magazine supported 4x acog with xm193. Sound was 139db on a 10.3" mk 18. All sound measurements were taken using m855

As far as inventory we have plenty right now.

[quillbro]

M4-SD II arrived the other day and I mailed my Form 4 yesterday. Can is very solid, the spring mechanism to detach is a little awkward and will take some getting used to. Will be very interesting to see how easily (or not) the can removes after a range session. I have 3 uppers to test it on. 2 will have the griffin compensator (10.5 and 14.5) and one will have an A2 hider (16)

dmax,

Here is a little video I put together that might shed some insight onto how to attach and detach the suppressor. I hope you enjoy your can as much as I have been enjoying them ;)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY59YUiBzHs&list=UUeoWxI-gfYeBlndwqeUkBgw&index=1&feature=plcp

[dmaxfireman]

I went with a representative from my dealer to the range so we could test fire this suppressor last night.

We only put about 60 rounds through it but overall I am happy with my purchase thus far. The suppressor was tested on a 10.5 LMT with the M4-SD II compensator and a 14.5 LMT with a standard A2 birdcage flash hider.

[TCBA_Joe]

The suppressor is very new. We just finished a production run of them last week. I am taking one to SHOT this year but it will not be on our website for another few weeks. We are getting a different graphic designer/ coding guy to overhaul the look and presentation of our website. It will take a little while. If you have questions about it feel free to email me.

Evan@griffinarmament.com

It metered 34 db reduction yesterday on a 14.5" m4. Poi shift was 1.3" at 100 yards in the prone magazine supported 4x acog with xm193. Sound was 139db on a 10.3" mk 18. All sound measurements were taken using m855

As far as inventory we have plenty right now.

Evan, what's the difference between the M4SD and the M4SDII? Will you offer both, is the II replacing the original?

[quillbro]

Evan, what's the difference between the M4SD and the M4SDII? Will you offer both, is the II replacing the original?

The M4SD is a legacy product that will no longer be manufactured.

However it did help in developing the M4SDII. The original M4SD was based off of prior design from the Spartan and Spartan II, but incorporated a fast attach mechanism which has since evolved even further on the M4SDII.

The M4SD was made of 4130 and had 17-4 baffles.

The only shared feature the new M4SD II has with the older model is the similar mounting system, but even that has been improved significantly. The outer suppressor body is aesthetically pleasing due to being OD Ground on centers after being fully Tig welded with comprehensive weldments throughout. It has a 316L tube, rear mount, and end cap and has a full 718 Incolnel baffle stack as well as wire EDM'd Fast attach geometry and a wire EDM'd bore. Even though we are a smaller company than the major players in the market this can competes with the best of them. It also gains the ability to be used in conjunction with any of the 4 M4SD muzzle devices as well as a standard A2 birdcage. We HIGHLY recommend that the suppressor only be mounted to muzzle devices that are using shims vs crush washers. It has a fairly liberal bore diameter at .311 at the front cap but A2 FH's have a wide tolerance range.

The M4SDII also reduces sound impulse by 34db which places it amongst the top performers in the industry. We are excited to bring it to market after years of development and are anticipating this as a successful product for years to come.

In short.... yes it is better than the M4SD, and as soon as we can make the web revisions the M4SD will be no more.

We are also coming out with a shorter version of the M4SDII (M4SDK) to compete with some of the new shorter cans. This will be released ~end of Q1 2013.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/536573_10151542093579569_894907530_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295753_10151542093099569_1914386309_n.jpg

[TCBA_Joe]

The M4SD is a legacy product that will no longer be manufactured.

However it did help in developing the M4SDII. The original M4SD was based off of prior design from the Spartan and Spartan II, but incorporated a fast attach mechanism which has since evolved even further on the M4SDII.

The M4SD was made of 4130 and had 17-4 baffles.

The only shared feature the new M4SD II has with the older model is the similar mounting system, but even that has been improved significantly. The outer suppressor body is aesthetically pleasing due to being OD Ground on centers after being fully Tig welded with comprehensive weldments throughout. It has a 316L tube, rear mount, and end cap and has a full 718 Incolnel baffle stack as well as wire EDM'd Fast attach geometry and a wire EDM'd bore. Even though we are a smaller company than the major players in the market this can competes with the best of them. It also gains the ability to be used in conjunction with any of the 4 M4SD muzzle devices as well as a standard A2 birdcage. We HIGHLY recommend that the suppressor only be mounted to muzzle devices that are using shims vs crush washers. It has a fairly liberal bore diameter at .311 at the front cap but A2 FH's have a wide tolerance range.

The M4SDII also reduces sound impulse by 34db which places it amongst the top performers in the industry. We are excited to bring it to market after years of development and are anticipating this as a successful product for years to come.

In short.... yes it is better than the M4SD, and as soon as we can make the web revisions the M4SD will be no more.

We are also coming out with a shorter version of the M4SDII (M4SDK) to compete with some of the new shorter cans. This will be released ~end of Q1 2013.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/536573_10151542093579569_894907530_n.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295753_10151542093099569_1914386309_n.jpg

I was just talking with Austin about this can over on ARF. Sounds awesome

[PatrioticDisorder]

Anyone know if the M4SD (ii)k are compatible with the Daniel Defense flash hiders?

[TCBA_Joe]

I have one in NFA jail. If I get the chance I'll see if it fits the DD hider.

[TCBA_Joe]

Here's a Review I did of my Griffin Armament M4SDK on AR15
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/430802_Griffin_Armament_M4SDK_Initial_Impressions.html

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s611/joe_freerider/20140831_161249_zpsydpadzkr.jpg
Backstory
I've been talking to Austin from Griffin Armament for about the last year or so; mainly industry talk and whatnot. Back when the M4SD was on the market and the M4SDII was just launched I mentioned my interest in a smaller, lighter 5.56 suppressor. He told me me about a future project he was working on called the M4SDII-K.

So, when the M4SDK was launched we spoke about it briefly and I started saving my pennies and reexamining the other options.

I wanted to find something smaller and lighter than a typical can for the purpose of reducing concussion on an SBR and reducing recoil and muzzle flash, especially under NV. I didn't feel the need to find a single can that compromised size/weight for the ability to use calibers I may never own.

The stats looked good:
Length: 5.75 "
Weight: 14.5 ounces.

An M4-2000 is 6.6" and 17.6 ounces
A Saker is 6.7" and 18 ounces

Now those are not completely fair comparisons because the M4SDK is billed as a "mini-suppressor" to compete with the Mini-4 (5.25"/13.5 oz) and the SF Mini (5"/14 oz) but it's slightly larger than those. Austin claims a 27db reduction which is less than the of the 32-34db of M4-2K and greater than the 22db of the Mini-4.

Stat-wise I felt this fit closer to the SF FA556-212, which is exactly the type of can I had been most interested in (6", 16oz, 28db) but Austin was adamant that it was designed to compete with the mini cans.

When I originally planned to buy a can I was on board the AAC SDN-6 train. I liked the caliber universality, but when I got my hands on it, at 7.6" and 19.85 oz I found it too long and heavy to truly be worth sticking on an SBR. I then had the chance to shoot it on a 16" DDM4 and found it very uncomfortable to shoot with it's very high pitch.

I began looking at dedicated 5.56 cans, and got lots of expert opinions from guys who's opinion and experience I respect. It came down to a giant list of all the problems with all the major brands and "buy Brand-X because it sucks but it's the best one going right now". I said screw it and began to ask Austin more questions about his cans.

The other thing I really liked was the A2 compatible mount. Battle Comp, BCM, Griffin, DD, PWS, and Vltor all make A2 compatible muzzle devices for the AAC Omni and Gemtech HALO (both A2 compatible cans). If I don't want to buy a fancy mount I have A2s coming out my rear. The drawbacks of the A2 is many claim there is a spec issue that requires a larger exit port in order to keep from having endcap strikes. It's AAC's claimed reasoning for dropping the Omni and It's also something I was told by a former AAC engineer.

I called Griffin, got my can ordered, and had it sent to MAC Tactical in NH (highly recommend).* Waited for my stamp, and a couple days after my son was born got the email my can was out of jail. This was early June and I hadn't had any range time until today.

*I would recommend Griffin make their markings a bit deeper. They're hard to read with the Cerakote which resulted in a shipping mistake adding time to my delivery.

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s611/joe_freerider/2014-01-31%2017.11.34_zps1iqzxwgg.jpg

Shooting It
Today I met with my buddy who's an instructor at a local firearms academy. I just won the NH NG TAG match and needed some help with my pistol work before the MAC regionals this next month. After spending the afternoon running handgun drills I pulled out my 11.5" SBR and my new can to wind down.

This guy was one that had originally warned me against buying an "off-brand" can. He professionally tests suppressors and works as a test engineer in the firearms industry, so I took his input into consideration and ended up ignoring it. He looked at my can, was impressed at the construction and thought the mount was a very cool very simple setup, but was suspicious of the reduction claim due to the size.

Note: The mount has a couple of degrees of rotation around the bore axis to it due to the tolerances of how the mounts locks on the wrench flats. However, because the collar fits around the diameter of the BFA groove that rotation doesn't add any movement to the can itself.

We ended up firing 120 rounds in <10 minutes from an 11.5" with a Griffin Flashcomp shooting M855. While not hearing safe, mainly due to the sonic crack, it was incredibly comfortable to shoot. I dumped my first mag without ear pro and didn't feel any discomfort. The sound was much deeper than other cans I've played with in the past, and so while the sound reduction wasn't as great numbers-wise it was much more pleasant on my SBR than, for instance, the above SDN-6 on a 16" bbl. I can't in good conscience say "hearing safe" because I know better (and have moderate tinitus from my last 2 jobs) but it was not uncomfortable to shoot without earpro and wouldn't worry about my hearing in a non-range rifle use situation.

After firing this can on my rifle my buddy commented how impressed he was with the sound reduction, and especially impressed because of its size. He also agreed on how comfortable it was to shoot and be near the shooter.

A note on POI shift. I use a 50m zero. I didn't take the take the time to bench the rifle because I was POA/POI at 50 offhand with my first few shots and we were running low on time. I'm sure there's some POI shift, but on my setup it seemed minimal.

As for the rifle function, I've tuned my SBR to fire ~700RPM without a can (using M855), which is the bottom of the ideal function range. With the can, I'm experiencing a slight function increase, but only by a small amount. The gun has very little recoil and gas blowback wasn't terrible.

While at some point I'd like to meter the can (which I planned back when I bought it but due to a change in employment have been unable to do) I took some video today. Now, video is completely unrealistic but some people seem to really get a hard-on for youtube silencer videos so I figured I'd take some.

Overall this is a great can and I'd highly recommend it; especially if you want a smaller 5.56 can but still want decent sound reduction. It's not a do-it-all every caliber can but it's an excellent compromise 5.56 can. I've never been a fan of the "buy a Spec-War 7.62 for your AR15 because one day you may own a .300 MinMag" viewpoint, but this can has really confirmed my preference and recommendation for dedicated task and caliber cans.

As for "off-brand", I fully believe Griffin is an up-and-comer. I remember hearing about "these new guys Silencerco" and I've seen what new-comers to the market can do. I've also seen Freedom Group cause some damage to AAC and seen what can happen to the monoliths of the industry when they stop innovating.

Yes, Griffin has had some (deserved) bad press and yes, Austin can come off as abrasive. I've ripped into Austin on here on quite a few occasions if you read back in the archives. However, taking the time to talk to him via PM and seeing his passion for quality suppressors I put his passion for his product into perspective. He made me a great can and I hope they do well.

http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s611/joe_freerider/20140831_161239_zpsj5kzbfqy.jpg


http://youtu.be/ZNbkLeNdNB0
http://youtu.be/ZNbkLeNdNB0

[TCBA_Joe]

Here's the 2nd video I couldn't attach

http://youtu.be/2MgE4ilR7SY
http://youtu.be/2MgE4ilR7SY