View Full Version : I'm going NFA =)
Hey Guys,
Well, I am taking the big plunge, just started paperwork to go NFA, I have my Colt 6920 with 16" barrel and decided I am going to have it shortened to 14.5 overall.
Sending in the paperwork to the feds through a local Class III dealer, and will see how things go. I will post the end results hopefully when they come along.
Luckly, I live in a pro machinegun state, and my county sheriff is a big time supporter of Class III.
Once it's all done I will post before and after pics of the rifle.
Have you considered registering the weapon for even shorter just in case?
If you're going to the trouble you could register it for 10.5 or 11.5 inches and get an extra Short barreled upper to go with the 14.5.
I agree with Demigod on how to register......$200 is a lot to spend on 1.5"
If I register shorter, say a 10.5" barrel, would I still be allowed to use a 14.5". I would have thought I was only allowed to have what I got the stamp for? Forgive me I am new and learning to the NFA stuff..
You can register it say at 10.5" and use a 14.5" on it but the 10.5" upper has to be on the weapon the majority of the time. If you just want the 14.5" barrel I'd recommend just going with a 14.5" barrel and pinned flash hider so you can save the $200.00 tax. Plus, easier to travel to schools and courses with a non-NFA rifle as some states SBRs are forbidden. The 1.5" difference just isn't really worth $200.00 IMHO.
You'll be fine. I have a Short Shotty that's registered for 12", but I found the 14" 870 barrel to be less useless, so I run it.
I just did 2 SBRs and I went 11.5.... I know I'll never go shorter than that. But if I fall in love with some 12.5 or 13 inch upper, I'll just swap out.
My whole reason for the shortening of the barrel, is that I just want a 14.5 overall. I hate the look of the 16" barrel on rifles. Seems like a big jump for something so trivial, but we each have our own things we like as fas as "taste" goes.
And paying $200 for "the look" I want is not that bad. I may go the 10.5 route, and buy an 14.5 upper. Also I hate the idea of having anything pinned where I no longer have the option to change flash hiders or add items.
I am also considering buying a suppressor at a later date, and that would not work with the pinned hider.
I am also considering buying a suppressor at a later date, and that would not work with the pinned hider.
You can use a suppressor on a pinned/welded flash hider. I will eventually use a Surefire can on the Noveske N4 I order with the pinned Surefire FH.
I stand corrected, I see that one manufacturer does use a phantom flash hider as the mount point for thier suppressor.
Never the less, the overall look is 14.5 exact as the military M-4, and being able to take off the bird cage and add other items is the bonus.
Another way to look at "why pay extra money for a small change" is the concept of would you spend say $200 more for certain color of a car because you liked that color better ? people do that ever day.
And with this being my first NFA jump, it would pad the future for me to save up and take the huge plunge to an M-16 or M-4 in full auto.
You can list 7.5",10.5",11.5 and 14.5" or 7.5"-14.5" and not worry about which length upper is mounted.You can always go longer than registered but not shorter.
You can list 7.5",10.5",11.5 and 14.5" or 7.5"-14.5" and not worry about which length upper is mounted.You can always go longer than registered but not shorter.
Are you sure about that? If so, can anyone else chime in as to whether this is still the case? I always thought the Form 1 asked for overall length rather than barrel length?
Are you sure about that? If so, can anyone else chime in as to whether this is still the case?
I myself haven't done that but I personally know others that have and their Form 1's were approved just as stated above.
I myself haven't done that but I personally know others that have and their Form 1's were approved just as stated above.
How long ago do they get those approvals? Just asking becasue I know a lot of things have been changing lately with the approval process. I have seen a few guys get rejected for entering "Multi" under the caliber section....which used to be okay.
Jay Cunningham
02-05-08, 16:36
bad info deleted
You should replace your barrel with a factory 14.5" instead of it having it cut down.
You should replace your barrel with a factory 14.5" instead of it having it cut down.
I've never been willing to have even the best barrel dudes cut on a Colt barrel. I just can't bring myself to do it. Even if it meant paying out the butt to get a factory barrel of the length I want.
Better yet, call Clyde Armory and order a 6933 or 6921 for about the same as you will pay for a 6920 and not have to fool with engraving the lower or cutting the barrel down. You will come out cheaper that way, and have a colt lower that says M4.
A 10.5 with suppressor would put you right about 16" overall barrel length if and when you decide to go that route. Should be easier to handle that way. Also the Form 1 I just completed which I got in the mail from the ATF the other day asked for both barrel length and overall length.
-RD62
Holy Crap :eek:
What a bunch of red tape for such trivial differences.
Really great info you guys pass along, thats why I love reading the forums here, I am gonna ask the Class III dealer I am using, see what he says, Ideally the best way would be to either state "Barrel less than 16"" or List them out as 7.5 10.5 11.5 14.5.
Rest assured I have decided against cutting my barrel down, I just cant bring myself to cutting a beautiful brand new barrel down. Heck I haven't even fired it yet.
With that being said, anyone have a new or good used Colt 14.5 upper they wanna trade. Or I might just hold on to it.
Army Chief
02-06-08, 08:24
Bob,
As a former Class III owner and police officer in The Granite State, I do commend your enthusiasm, but it seems to me you're also getting a bit ahead of yourself. Making an NFA decision based upon "looks" strikes me as a rather foolhardy proposition; doubly so when you can just go with a pinned flash suppressor on a 14.5" and avoid the whole mess. Class III ownership involves a great deal of scrutiny and potential inconvenience -- even in a gun friendly state -- and unless you have a real desire to get down and dirty with a 10", 11.5" or 12" barrel, there is almost no reason to go through all of that just for appearances' sake.
I think I'm reacting, in part, to the fact that you popped up on the grid here the other day having just barely finished paying for a Colt, and you're already rushing headlong into the NFA question without really even knowing why ... unless you count "because it looks cool" as a real reason, in which case you may be on the wrong forum. That has poseur written all over it, and I'm sure that you want to avoid that just as badly as we want to help you do just that. There is a learning curve here, and no one is suggesting that going the NFA route is a bad thing (far from it), but you might want to relax a bit first. My advice would be to get yourself out to the range once you get some decent weather up there and put your unmodified, unmolested, unimproved Colt through it's paces. See what you like and dislike about it. Consider how your needs/wishes/desires may change over time. Get to know your rifle a bit. Put some thought into where and how you most want to use it.
Shorty configurations offer considerable convenience in handling along with a healthy dose of pure fun, but they can also be loud and impractical if you plan to spend a lot of time on the range, or intend to travel much for training. That's why it is almost always better to start with a standard LE carbine, and consider getting a dedicated Class III upper a bit later if you are willing to register the lower; otherwise, you can just buy a complete Colt SBR straight out from SAW or Clyde Armory, etc. In general, I would agree that barrel cutting on an AR is an answer to a question that needn't even be asked, as there are factory NFA components readily available. (This isn't one of those situations like the PS-90 guys face when they want to SBR it with a short FN factory tube that is simply unobtainable through non-official channels.)
Perhaps it sounds like I'm whizzing in your Wheaties. I'm not. I'm just trying to help you temper your zeal just a bit so that you can settle in and be taken seriously around here, and not find yourself lumped into the heap of those who are simply preoccupied with "the über-tactical cool factor." There isn't a thing in the world wrong with your attitude, but the whole crawl-walk-run principle probably has some application here. Reading the M4CN boards will certainly help some. Getting out onto the firing line will help considerably more. Signing up for some competent instruction will bring you the rest of the way to where you seem to really want to be. The good news is that you're on the right path ... just have some patience. Remember: this isn't about looking good; it's about being good.
The NFA administrative issues/forms issue is a bit hit-or-miss, as different folks tend to have different experiences depending upon how they write things up, and which examiner processes their application. Overall length must be included, of course, and that generally means that you'll need to define the barrel length as a function of overall length, if nothing else. Some folks have no trouble with annotating the barrel as "less than 16 inches," while others have had applications returned for the very same reason. Some folks put multiple barrel lengths on the form, and get it through; others get them kicked-back and asked for specific clarification.
In general, it has been my experience that the best approach is to write down the actual barrel length of the tube you intend to use most often (i.e. the one that will most often be physically mounted on the registered lower), and then followed up with a letter to the ATF that specifies that your registered SBR will "also be used with barrel lengths of x or y inches." At that point, the weapon is already on the NFA registry, so the point is largely moot in the legal sense -- and you've gone on record with your intentions, should they ever be called into question later.
You've found the right place to learn, and you're asking most of the right questions ... just slow down a bit and enjoy yourself, brother. :)
Chief
I have twice written "barrel length less than 16 inches" and they have both been approved.
How long ago was this? All reports I've seen in the last year+ of people trying to do this have been negative with BATFE returning the forms without a stamp.
How long ago was this? All reports I've seen in the last year+ of people trying to do this have been negative with BATFE returning the forms without a stamp.
Indeed. I wouldn't try shennanigans with Big Brother. Just put a stamp on the gun and be done with it.
Grettings all,
I guess looking back I did come off rather as a "yahoo" just wanting cool looks, and gave the impression that I was "Brand new" to the M-4 community.
So, with that being said, I will slow down a bit, and add some background.
This rifle is my 5th rifle, I have 2 Bushmasters in 16", and old Colt SP1, and a Rock River Arms Entry tactical. I recently decided to get the Colt as I have wanted a 6920 for a long time.
My decision to NFA the Colt came not just for the "Look" factor, I have always wanted to make the NFA jump and go full auto. I love the 6920 more than all my guns I own. And just decided it was time to make the jump.
I am well aware of what the "pains" of owning NFA is, with regards to big brother being able to come check on me, and restrictions on travel to other states.
As far as looks goes, Yes, I want the 14.5 M-4 military look, but not just cause it looks cool, but more cause it's eye appealing to me, just as one might buy a certain car in color for what "They" want. Some may view that as "silly".
As far as my background in weapons goes, I am no amateur, having military experience (1/75 U.S. Army) and 8 1/2 years law enforcement, along with owning various weapons for the past 23+ years now.
I do apologize if I came off as some new yahoo, was not my intention guy's, guess I got a little excited with my new purchase, and jumped into the forums not thinking so to speak.
Overall, I really do want to go NFA, not just for looks, but for the confidence of owning something other's don't. And I do plan on going full auto as a serious journey, I go to the range often, and since leaving the military I have missed the fun and thrill of throwing some rounds down range.
I am new to the NFA arena, so I am in my learning mode, and that's why I value the comments you all have posted, as I take it all in and decipher whats what in the community.
Again, if I came off "yahoo" or "poseur" to you all, I do apologize. was not my intention.
How much is your NFA dealer charging you to do the paper? It's not hard, pretty easy, actually, to do yourself.
When were you in 1/75? I was there '84/'85, B. Co.
I agree on liking the 14.5.
To me it's the optimal length in the compromise between velocity loss and handling, and it can be fired without rattling your fillings loose. 16 is just plain LONG, and I wouldn't want to fire an 11.5 or shorter inside a structor with unprotected ears... let alone outside.
Dealer said around $50 for the paperwork, but that if I ended up ordering a new upper as I discussed with him he would work the price into the whole deal. Originally I had told him I was gonna cut down the 16" barrel but I have decided against that. And was 1/75 C-co 87/88 stationed at Hunter Airfield.
Jay Cunningham
02-06-08, 16:12
Ok, I just looked at my paperwork and I WAS INCORRECT.
I did in fact write "rifle with barrel less than 16 inches" in block 4b. but in block 4e. I wrote "12.5 inches".
So on both of my forms the barrel length is specified.
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