View Full Version : USGI Vietnam 20-round mags: GTG or not so much?
Doc Safari
09-25-12, 10:25
I've managed to find a few threads with complaints about the reliability of 20-round PMags, but not too many mentions of USGI 20-rounders.
To muddy the waters even further, I've noticed two styles: the straight body Vietnam-style mags, and a more modern design with the little curve to it like the 30-rounders.
I'm assuming the change was made to increase reliability, but does that mean the Vietnam-era 20-rounders are not GTG?
The reason I ask is I've got a bunch of straight body 20-rounders that look like the Vietnam era mags. All seem to work reliably so far (except one that was oversized right out of the wrapper).
All have black followers which I've considered changing if possible.
I just prefer the 20-rounders for some applications like hunting, and want to be confident that they are fine.
I think you've answered your own question. If the magazines function reliably in your rifle, then use them.
The 20 round magazines have their place. I keep a few loaded with specialty ammo, and one for use on extended searches. That rifle gets heavy after a while. Of course, reloads are 30 round mags.
In a hunting role, worst case scenario is that you don't get off a quick follow up shot.
Those curves GI looking 20s were most, if not all, Cprod Trash.
The original and current NHTMGs are fine.
I've got two Colt 20 round mags with metal followers that are beat to shit and run great. I picked them up at the local surplus store and have no idea how old they are.
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KalashniKEV
09-25-12, 14:30
Those curves GI looking 20s were most, if not all, Cprod Trash.
I've got 3 or 4 and they run just fine for me. I use them from the bench quite frequently.
The curve is just because they're made on the same machine as the standard 30 round mags.
Even with springs on the weak side, and heavy wear on the followers, I've found them to be incredibly reliable.
If they snap in and drop free from your rifle, load em up and run them. I think they'll surprise you.
I've got 3 or 4 and they run just fine for me. I use them from the bench quite frequently.
The curve is just because they're made on the same machine as the standard 30 round mags.
Cprod did make a few mags here and there that indeed work. But they were a dog shit manufacturer overall.
I mean... even olympic arms kicks out an occasional functional gun. All you had to do back in the day was go look at the threads in Cprod's industry forum on ARFcom and look at all the "where are my replacement mags" threads.
That company was a joke. I wouldn't keep functional Cprod mags just on principle.
Missileman
09-25-12, 19:28
I've got two Colt 20 round mags with metal followers that are beat to shit and run great. I picked them up at the local surplus store and have no idea how old they are.
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I have half a dozen straight 20 round Colt magazines with metal followers that came back from VN with me an they work better than any other mags I have even though they are beat to crap. I always check the surplus store in case a few show up and I have a standing order in 2 local stores in case they get any in.
I never saw any of the poly followers. Of course I got out (83)before they started issuing 30 round mags except to front line units.
nineteenkilo
09-26-12, 11:06
I've got some old 20's that run just fine for me. They are beat all to shit, but they drop when they should. I also mostly use them for hunting though they do see they range from time to time. Hell, if they work - run 'em!
The USGI 20 round mags are close to perfect, a lot of my fellow LE guys use them in their patrol carbines.
I've been stockpiling 30rd Colts from Grant more as an investment than anything. I keep some loaded in a bandoleer, but there's always a 20rd Colt in the 6920 or the musket. Been stockpiling 20rd NHTMGs also, and would bet my life on my old Adventure Line/ Universal 20s. No mods whatsoever, and GTG.
Have thirty something 20rders. Most have been great, have a couple who are beginning to cause issues, worn out springs, which is an easy fix once I fine a place selling quality replacement springs.
Doc Safari
09-26-12, 17:03
Have thirty something 20rders. Most have been great, have a couple who are beginning to cause issues, worn out springs, which is an easy fix once I fine a place selling quality replacement springs.
You made me think of something: does somebody sell parts for the 20-rounders?
I have seen many places selling springs and followers for the 30-rounders, but I don't recall seeing parts for the twenties.
Brownells sells SS and CS springs for straight body 20 rd mags.
You made me think of something: does somebody sell parts for the 20-rounders?
I have seen many places selling springs and followers for the 30-rounders, but I don't recall seeing parts for the twenties.
The reason you don't see replacement followers for the 20 round magazines is there isn't anything to improve. The 20 round magazines never had the follower issues the 30 round magazines did.
I've got a few 20-rounders, Colt marked, practically sans finish, metal followers than run like the proverbial sewing machine. I see nothing wrong with the old 20's.
Doc Safari
09-28-12, 21:35
I have to say this thread has been a real eye-opener. I came to this discussion with the attitude that 99.99% of the responses were going to be derisive of the 20-rounders, with the occasional hunter or benchrest shooter defending them as "the ones I use cuz they're better for prone shooting."
Little did I realize that in some ways they are actually superior to the 30-rounders.
Gene Stoner called it right on the money again.:blink:
Little did I realize that in some ways they are actually superior to the 30-rounders.
Wasn't the AR-15 originally designed to use the straight 20 round mags, and the 30 rounders are actually the deviation from Stoner's original intention, hence some of the issues with them? Also, wasn't there a 25-round, straight, waffle-style magazine in the original AR-15 design?
A little digression in topic, but I figure this thread is the best place to ask this question in then starting a new thread.
Anyway, short question, was organizing some equipment and pulled out my box of twenty rounders and am thinking about loading some of them up and storing them and tried to find if the twenty rounders needed to be downloaded for reliability or if they were fine fully loaded. So any reason not to load them to full twenty rounds of capacity? Or should they be downloaded like my 30 rounders?
Any seating issues in your carbine? They need to seat easily and resist a firm tug.
I have and run alot of Old Colt straight 20 rounders love them they have had no issues that I have had with 30 round mags. Being in NY I have to use the preban stuff these colts run like a top.
Doc,
You haven't heard lots of complaints because the 20s work. I have a box of 100 USGI surplus 20s at work and the only ones which give me problems are the ones with obvious damage (they just plain look damaged or out of spec). Most are without finish and many are marked Colt AR15 with a mixture of other types.
I believe it was written that 'Gene Stoner said the 20s were perfect but the 30s were designed because GIs were complaining about the mix-match in capacity vs the AK47 during Vietnam.
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