Consensus 9MM?

[NoviceGunGuy]

I’m looking to buy my first semi auto and after reading a lot of the threads here I’d decided on either a Glock 17/19 or the S&W MP 9. It seemed like people here agreed you couldn’t go wrong with either of those guns. But now, it looks like each of them is having some issues that haven’t yet been fixed.

So my question is, is there a new consensus 9MM? I’ve read a lot of the recent threads and it seems like there is a lot of different advice out there. From buying Glock or M&P and having it fixed, to buying a used Glock, to just buying an M&P and hoping you get a good one to buying other brands.

I’m leaning towards just buying the M&P with the 5 “ barrel and hoping I get a good one, or that I’m such a bad shot I really can’t tell the difference.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

[nhskull21]

These forums are just a tiny part of the gun community. A lot of the same people say the same thing over and over again. Both are good companies and of you have a problem they will make it right.

[Hogsgunwild]

Ideally, you would shoot both guns extensively until you could decide what works better for you. I have actually (like many on this forum) purchased several of the same or similar model guns from several manufacturers over just the last couple of years in order to find out for sure if or how well the gun works for me. Presently, I am in a nip and tuck race between the Walther PPQ and the S&W M&P. I have three PPQs and five M&Ps at the moment and it is a very tough choice. I need a PPS to compare to my Shield and then I will continue to carry and train with them until I can (hopefully) make a choice between the two manufacturers.

Yes, you could go wrong with either the Glock or M&P if they just don't work for you as well as something else. Yes, it is a Glock world, yes they are generally a great platform, but, for me, after 21 years of Glock ownership (I've owned seven) I am clear on the fact that the ergonomics of the Glock are not the best for me and it creates more work for me to keep as proficient with a Glock as what I have found that I can do with several other manufacturers guns.

There are a ton of people that do great with the Glock and swear by it.
There is also group of us that are clear that they do not care for the system and have chosen guns that work much better for us.

If you try the M&P 9MM, use the models made in recent months. They have made some important improvements to them. You can use the search function to research the M&P and Glock issues.

The Walther PPQ is very worthy of a look. Mine are more accurate than any semi-auto that I have ever owned. 100% reliable as well.

[lethal dose]

I think a used gen 2 g19 is a great gun... One of my favorites, actually. They can be had under $400 and are arguably one of glock's best ever.

[KalashniKEV]

I've shot a lot of different Glocks and never experienced ejection or reliability issues.

I've put thousands of rounds through my CZ-75 and I'm still on my original slide stop (another oft-repeated internet flaw)

My SIGs are all accurate and reliable, but are mostly W. German.

I had an M&P 9c that had a bad trigger and terrible accuracy (we all get a lemon now and again).

I vote Glock 19. Gen 3 or Gen 4.

[mkmckinley]

I'd look for an older used Glock or an M&P.

[elnino31]

There's definite differences in the ergonomics between glocks and m&P's. So at the least, you should handle them, even rent or borrow before buying.

The m&p suits me better for a full size gun, but I feel very comfortable with a subcompact glock. No way to be sure until you give each a try.

FWIW, used glocks can be had for excellent prices, which makes them hard to pass on.

[Salamander]

After mostly shooting a Glock for quite a while, I've just recently acquired my first M&P. They're both good guns; the M&P fits my hands better, and I like the ambidextrous capability. I've only had time for one trip to the range but thus far, I'm really liking the M&P.

The PPQ isn't on the California compliant list, so I have no experience with it.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Glocks seem to be getting on track, and most are reliable. Randy will be throwing out another batch of APEX extractors soon which will HELP turn the tides for that. I'm a Glock guy.

Walther PPQ is an amazing pistol. My girlfriend just bought one, and it will be replacing her HKs.

Smith M&P works. It just does. Most are accurate. They like hot ammo.

HKs work. Super reliable, super accurate. And the P30 remains Todd Green's favorite pistol, and he shoots more pistol rounds per year than anybody I'm aware of. Vickers has also stated that they're the highest quality pistol of their type on the market.

[rackham1]

As a "novice gun guy" it won't matter to you, frankly. You'll either be a couple-boxes-of-ammo-a-year person in which case you'll never wring enough use out of it to ever tell the difference, or (hopefully) you'll get the bug, shoot the piss out of it, then quickly learn for yourself everything you want to know.

So don't stress the decision. Much more important to just get one and start training. Neither is a BAD choice... pick on cost or availability.

[Nephrology]

Yes both might have issues - both are also more likely to be good than not.

Hunt around for a used Glock and I think you'll do good. Look for a serial number that begins with the letter N or lower (Arbitrary cutoff- a G17 Serial # NLExxx is my youngest glock and works great).

Otherwise the Walther PPQ is a great pistol as well.

[avengd7x]

I wouldn't play the hunt for an older glock game. my generation 2s and early gen 3s have been flawless, but when you can get a brand new m&p9 for around $450 (g&r) I would save myself the trouble of worrying about which serial number to look for, which parts need to be replaced, and how much use it has really had, when finding a used glock

to me, my newer m&ps have better ergonomics, reliability, and just as good triggers as my glocks

[sarge1967]

You cannot go wrong with either pistol. Yes some have had issues, but as others have mentioned both companies will stand by their products.

The Walther PPQ is a GREAT pistol. I have one in 9mm. Very very accurate, awesome trigger. The only drawbacks I have found are, higher bore axis so it is a tad bit snappy. Mags are $50.00 each. Being a new pistol, accessories are harder to find.

I have a newer manufacture M&P9. Best ergos of any of the plastic pistols IMO. Very soft shooting. My model is accurate. Trigger is worst of the bunch. It is useable but I will probably do some APEX work on mine.

I used to have a Glock 23 3rd Gen. I just could never get comfortable with the ergos of the Glock. I sold it to get the M&P. I never did have any issues with it. It was accurate.

As others have said. Get a gun and train, train, train.

[anubismp]

Besides the guns you listed I'd take a hard look at the PPQ and the sig 226. The 226 is my favorite 9mm gun in any flavor. The PPQ has a bit less history and I own it in 40 but its one hole accurate at handgun distances and its been reliable so far.

[maximus83]

Sounds like you've already researched the brands. The "consensus" (to the extent there is one) on this forum is that you want a Glock in 17/19 in 9mm, an M&P, an HK P30, or a Walther PPQ. Something on that list is pretty well "shooter approved" around here. There are other choices but these come up the most often.

The ideal thing to do is rent these and try them out at a range, then just get one you like and shoot the heck out of it. If you're just getting started I wouldn't over-analyze it. As others said, you have to shoot for a while to figure out what you really prefer. Even if you don't like what you get, all of these brands are easy to sell.

[Twisted10]

former glock owner, current M&P owner.

both are excellent guns.

as for the 9mm, im also a previous .40 fanboy. Ive switched all my pistols to 9mm for cheaper ammo and easier control ability.


YMMV

[sarge1967]

former glock owner, current M&P owner.

both are excellent guns.

as for the 9mm, im also a previous .40 fanboy. Ive switched all my pistols to 9mm for cheaper ammo and easier control ability.


YMMV

I have switched all my fighting handguns to 9mm as well for the same reasons. I also reload and I wanted one less caliber to have to reload.

[gun71530]

I vote for a gen 3 Glock 19. I own several 9mm Glocks, and have never had any sort of reliability issues.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[DocGKR]

Used pre-2010 G17/G19 or a new post-July 2012 M&P9. HK P30 is another solid option, but I am not a fan of the trigger.

[Caeser25]

Another vote for a gen 2 or gen 3 19. The 19 is more easily concealed and the 17 does nothing the 19 can't do. This is coming from a 17 owner that wishes he bought a 19.

[davebee456]

Somewhere in the N Serial range they introduced the dipped extractor. By P Serial numbers you had the dull grey finish on barrel, dipped extractors and the HOT BRASS TO FACE Feature called BTF




Yes both might have issues - both are also more likely to be good than not.

Hunt around for a used Glock and I think you'll do good. Look for a serial number that begins with the letter N or lower (Arbitrary cutoff- a G17 Serial # NLExxx is my youngest glock and works great).

Otherwise the Walther PPQ is a great pistol as well.

[Nephrology]

Somewhere in the N Serial range they introduced the dipped extractor. By P Serial numbers you had the dull grey finish on barrel, dipped extractors and the HOT BRASS TO FACE Feature called BTF

I have a dipped extractor and am well over 3000 rounds in my hands without any extractor issues at all. Gun had been shot a lot more before it hit my hands, too - had some trouble with FTEs and popped in a replacement spring and it's been GTG since then. Have had maybe 1 piece of brass hit my head every 300-500 rounds and that's usually while shooting wolf...

My G19 (2007) has had just as many problems with wolf. Also required a replacement RSA after round ~7000 or so.

[DocGKR]

Caeser25--Cut the G17 grip to the size of a G19. This gives the increased reliability and sight radius of the G17 with the "concealability" inherent with the shorter G19 grip.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

HK P30 is probably the safest option out of the box. Quality is expensive. Second on my list are the M&Ps which have terrible triggers but I really don't care about triggers. Since my main carry and practice gun is an air weight j frame with a 12 pound trigger I consider all auto loader triggers pussycats.

[davebee456]

the P30 with the LEM Trigger is a great alternative to Glock 19/17.
the M&P too...
There are always used great condition glock 19's or 17's on gunbroker.
P30's are expensive and the magazines are too.

[davebee456]

thats great, I want to start believing in Glock again, I like buying new guns better than used ones.



I have a dipped extractor and am well over 3000 rounds in my hands without any extractor issues at all. Gun had been shot a lot more before it hit my hands, too - had some trouble with FTEs and popped in a replacement spring and it's been GTG since then. Have had maybe 1 piece of brass hit my head every 300-500 rounds and that's usually while shooting wolf...

My G19 (2007) has had just as many problems with wolf. Also required a replacement RSA after round ~7000 or so.

[jyo]

I tried and shot a bunch of 9mm pistols and settled on two (OK, three)---the HK P30 and it's siblings, the P2000 and my older USPc---all in 9mm, and all the DA/SA versions---I am used to this trigger system and like it. Yes, I've shot LEM pistols and like it too! My current examples are DA/SA and I don't see any real reason to change.
Good luck with your choice!

[oldgus3836]

I'll say it try a Beretta either the storm models or the 92. I have large hands they fit and my 92 compact shoots like a laser one of my most accurate pistols. Make sure the gun fits take a good grip at your side focus on a spot on a wall at eye level, close your eyes bring gun up to eye level with eyes closed. Open your eye you should hopefully only need a little right or left if the pistol points up (like a glock and a ruger 22 does for me) the pistol does not fit your NPOA. Try a different gun. In a self defense high stress situation the better the pistol points the easier to hit your target. You can adjust your wrist to make it work but it takes way too much for me to lower a Glock to the target. But then I can could be full of it but I do not buy a pistol with out doing this test. YMMV IMHO (I like acronyms)

[brickboy240]

With the release of the Apex extractor....buying a new G19 is not altogether the gamble it was a few months ago.

The PPQ seems like a good option as well.

If you have the dough...the P-30 is also a good choice.

-brickboy240

[Bullseye-777]

I have a Glock 19 now but it is still taking a back seat to my favorite
9mm, the HK P7. If you can buy a P7, you won't regret it.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/HK-P77.jpg

[NoviceGunGuy]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm having a tough time finding any of the guns that were mentioned at my local gun stores, or even online right now. Used Glock prices are all over the place and I'm concerned about getting a gun that isn't in great shape. The best I found was police trade G19 that they want close to $400 for.

I think you all gave great advice on the caliber. There are lots of .40 caliber used guns for sale, especially in compacts. I'm guessing people buy them and don't like shooting them because of the kick or maybe the cost.

The latest manufacture date my dealer had on the MP 9 was Jan 2012. I haven't tried talking to online stores about the manufacture date, but have my doubts as to how much they will work with me. I'd feel better knowing what I'm getting before I buy it. One option might be the 5" barrel, but not sure if they had the same issues.

The H&K I haven't found local and the online stores I checked are out of stock. Looks like a great pistol, I could afford it, but at close to $900 it's almost double the other pistols. I'd buy as a last resort.

It could be you all have better contacts than me, or have a better local gun store. I'm going to do some more searching today and see what I come up with. I'd really like to buy this pistol soon. I'll let you all know what I find.

Thanks again.

[avengd7x]

I'd recommend talking to grant at gandrtactical.com. He is an active member here and he will answer your questions and make sure you get what you want

email: Sales@GRTactical.com

[Brian Brazier]

As others have said, handle a few different guns, go to a range and rent a few different models, make sure the gun fits your hand and the controls are accessable. I am not a fan of polymer guns, I perfer steel or aluminum framed semi autos, if this is going to be a range and home defense gun you might want to consider a CZ 75b, Beretta 92fs or M9, or a SigSauer P226 right now Buds has a ton of CPO (certified pre owned) P226 9mm for $580. All of these are solid shooters, the Beretta had a problem with the slide separating, but that was fixed back in the 90's, of the ones I listed I perfer the CZ 75b, it fits my hands like a glove. The 9mm as a defensive round is not the best, but with a good JHP will put a person down in one shot, do your homework on JHP ammo, make sure whatever gun you choose will properly feed the ammo you choose. I carry the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr Flexlock round, it expands consistently, and my M9 loves it. If your considering a. 40 you may want to shoot one first, it is a really snappy round, especially in a polymer gun, personally I dont like the .40, for a larger caliber the. 45 is the best. If you like the. 40 Buds also has CPO p229 in. 40 for $600.

[packinaglock]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm having a tough time finding any of the guns that were mentioned at my local gun stores, or even online right now. Used Glock prices are all over the place and I'm concerned about getting a gun that isn't in great shape. The best I found was police trade G19 that they want close to $400 for.

I think you all gave great advice on the caliber. There are lots of .40 caliber used guns for sale, especially in compacts. I'm guessing people buy them and don't like shooting them because of the kick or maybe the cost.

The latest manufacture date my dealer had on the MP 9 was Jan 2012. I haven't tried talking to online stores about the manufacture date, but have my doubts as to how much they will work with me. I'd feel better knowing what I'm getting before I buy it. One option might be the 5" barrel, but not sure if they had the same issues.

The H&K I haven't found local and the online stores I checked are out of stock. Looks like a great pistol, I could afford it, but at close to $900 it's almost double the other pistols. I'd buy as a last resort.

It could be you all have better contacts than me, or have a better local gun store. I'm going to do some more searching today and see what I come up with. I'd really like to buy this pistol soon. I'll let you all know what I find.

Thanks again.

Sounds like a pretty good bet.

[fowler]

I would look at a Sig 226 Navy or standard and if cash is short a CPO factory 226 at around $600 on the cheap. As far as Glock you cannot go wrong. The Browning High-Power is another fine 9mm as is a Sig 228. As far as SW its on par with a Ruger middle of the road entry level 9mm.

[brushy bill]

I would look at a Sig 226 Navy or standard and if cash is short a CPO factory 226 at around $600 on the cheap. As far as Glock you cannot go wrong. The Browning High-Power is another fine 9mm as is a Sig 228. As far as SW its on par with a Ruger middle of the road entry level 9mm.

When did you get your last SIG? Current materials (MIM) and QC under Cohen have really taken SIG to their lowest levels. I wouldn't consider SIG as superior to an M&P in any respect and in no way would I tote Ruger SR series as equivalent to an M&P. You CAN go wrong with Glock. There are multiple threads posted here that go into the details on that subject. Fortunately, once production meets demand, Apex has the fix. Not faulting the BHP, but like the 1911, it is an enthusiast's gun and there are better options.

[Brian Brazier]

When did you get your last SIG? Current materials (MIM) and QC under Cohen have really taken SIG to their lowest levels. I wouldn't consider SIG as superior to an M&P in any respect and in no way would I tote Ruger SR series as equivalent to an M&P. You CAN go wrong with Glock. There are multiple threads posted here that go into the details on that subject. Fortunately, once production meets demand, Apex has the fix. Not faulting the BHP, but like the 1911, it is an enthusiast's gun and there are better options.

Most every production gun has MIM parts, I cant think of one that doesnt. I am not sold on the theory that Sigs made in the USA are inferior, I have both US and German models and neither has had a faiure, both have very crisp trigger breaks, and both are super accurate. I have never shot an M&P but I have handled a few, the trigger material is soft and makes the trigger feel spongy. Also it has been posted by many M&P 9mm owners that they arent accurate, and the best result is a pattern not a grouping, but that is only what I have read.

[fowler]

I have bought 3 new Sigs in the last year. And have a W-German P226 1991 ,MIM hammer, 1997 P228 German MIM hammer. Side by side there made very well and are 100% reliable and accurate. In many ways the post 2006 Sig's have a better Nitron finish by Ionbond and there stronger one piece stainless barstock slides,external extracter. They are very well made and I would not trade a new Sig for 3 SW Mp's or Rugers . Kimber's are MIM as most firearms today. We all can spend our money and use what we like. The Navy,homeland,secret service,Coast Guard,US army,Naval pilots all like there Sigs. As well as most Specail Op's in the free world,Brits Commando's S.A.S. and many,many more L.E. world wide. And of course the Navy Seal's are not using SW MP's.

[NoviceGunGuy]

I wanted to follow-up and let you all know I just purchased a 2008 Glock 17 Gen 3 with night sights and a case for $399. While I was hoping to pay less, prices seems have run up a bit recently.

Thanks for all your help and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I get it shipped and get it to the range.

[brickboy240]

Prices on older Glocks are probably up because of the ejection problems with the newer 9mm Glocks.

I know that around here...it is nearly impossible to FIND a used 2nd gen Glock 9mm in our gun stores used cases.

[clarkz71]

I wanted to follow-up and let you all know I just purchased a 2008 Glock 17 Gen 3 with night sights and a case for $399. While I was hoping to pay less, prices seems have run up a bit recently.

Thanks for all your help and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions once I get it shipped and get it to the range.

Congratulations, you made a good choice. Look's good as well.

[Nephrology]

With decent night sights I'd say you came out on top of that bargain. My G17RTF2 is from 2009 and has been just fine, outside of a clapped out RSA. Wouldn't worry about ejection if I was you unless it comes up.

[NoviceGunGuy]

I finally received my Glock 17 last week, serial number starts with LMR with a date of manufacture of 2008. Took it to the range and fired about 200 rounds of 124 grain Aguilla ammo.

Unfortunately had multiple cases of erratic ejections. Several rounds over the head, one to the forehead and even one that ejected over the gun and past my left shoulder.

Disappointing given how much effort I put into getting a used Glock that was supposed to be made prior to the ejection issue.

Other than that, it's a nice gun to shoot and a lot of fun with the big magazines. I'm going to hang onto and once a reliable fix is in I guess I'll pay to replace some parts.

[Hmac]

Walther PPQ. My plan is to see if Apex' new extractor fixes my BTF issue on my Glock. If it does, at least I'll be able to sell it as a functional pistol. With the PPQ, I can't think of a reason to keep the Glock around.

[Cylinder Head]

I really need to get my hands on a PPQ. This is a hard crowd to sway and that gun has really caught on.

Out of the pistols mentioned so far, the P30 is the one I have the most experience with and is a fine, near invincible weapon. I also have an M&P9 that had an awful stock trigger until I installed some Apex treats that turned it into a tack driver.

[Tzook]

Really, you just need to get some range time in with each one and make your pick, you can't lose!! I for one, shoot the G17 exponentially better than the 19, even though the 19 really is more practical.

[Brian Brazier]

I handled a G19 the other day, and the finger grooves are way too small for me, my middle fingers knuckle was crushed by the trigger guard, I ordered anCZ75B Omega, apparently CZ did another run, cannot wait till its here. I also picked up a M9, first handgun I ever bought and sold, have missed it ever since.

[rauchman]

I really need to get my hands on a PPQ. This is a hard crowd to sway and that gun has really caught on.

Out of the pistols mentioned so far, the P30 is the one I have the most experience with and is a fine, near invincible weapon. I also have an M&P9 that had an awful stock trigger until I installed some Apex treats that turned it into a tack driver.

Greetings Cylinder Head,

Haven't seen you around the range lately.

I picked up the PPQ a while back and it's quickly working it's way up to my fav' plastic 9mm. As others have said, it's very accurate and easy to be accurate on. Excellent trigger. I am a huge fan of the Euro style mag release as well. Yes, it does have a bit more muzzle lift than the G19 and M&P, but it shoots very well and is manageable. Only real downside is that mags are pricey.

I find the M&P to have the least felt recoil, but I've never felt quite at home w/ it's ergo's and it's accuracy is ok, but not great. As an NJ'
er, I have to give props to S&W for making a 15rnd 9mm mag. I've installed the Apex sear, rounded the firing pin safety and polished all contact points internally. The trigger is now considerably better than it was. Just wish the accuracy was a little better.

I have a Gen2 and Gen3 G19. These pistols have been very reliable. I'm able to shoot these pistols a bit better than the M&P for slow fire accuracy, whereas repeat shots are a littel easier on the M&P. Triggers are stock w/ polished internals. I've tried various connectors / springs and have wound up at the stock configuration.

I have some other 9mm's (W. German Sig P226, wife's Beretta 92FS, Gen2 G17, G26, etc.). Lots of nice pistols, but I'm somewhere between the PPQ, M&P and G19. If I get the nerve up, I may try chopping the G17 to fit G19 mags. I think this might make a great pistol.

[beschatten]

I've bought a lot of handguns and wasted a lot of money/time on too many platforms on the basis that Glocks were ugly and awkward to hold.

I eventually got fed up with all of them (they were all great, but they all couldn't fill all the roles; HD, CCW), but I ended up picking up a G19 G4 and I haven't been this happy.

Not a single issue, easy to replace parts, maintain, and very accurate. I'm not saying I'm a fanboy because it sure as hell is ugly, but it gets the job done.

All the others are kinda just stay in the safe now except for the 1911 which gets some play-time here and there.

With that said, my vote goes to the G19 Gen4.

[Omega Man]

I finally received my Glock 17 last week, serial number starts with LMR with a date of manufacture of 2008. Took it to the range and fired about 200 rounds of 124 grain Aguilla ammo.

Unfortunately had multiple cases of erratic ejections. Several rounds over the head, one to the forehead and even one that ejected over the gun and past my left shoulder.

Disappointing given how much effort I put into getting a used Glock that was supposed to be made prior to the ejection issue.

Other than that, it's a nice gun to shoot and a lot of fun with the big magazines. I'm going to hang onto and once a reliable fix is in I guess I'll pay to replace some parts.

The 08 Gen 3's are supposed to be the "good" Glocks. :confused:

[NoviceGunGuy]

The 08 Gen 3's are supposed to be the "good" Glocks. :confused:

Yes, that's what so disappointing.

[StrikerFired]

Either gun is a good choice. Get out to the ranges and rent ( or try to) the guns that you feel best with. The general rule is that you are going to shoot better and more apt to carry the gun that you "like" the best. That being said...I really, really like how the M&P's feel in my hand and I have pretty much made the move over to them. I still have one G17 that I keep to run in classes and IDPA, just can't get myself to sell it off...

[Kevin P]

I finally received my Glock 17 last week, serial number starts with LMR with a date of manufacture of 2008. Took it to the range and fired about 200 rounds of 124 grain Aguilla ammo.

Unfortunately had multiple cases of erratic ejections. Several rounds over the head, one to the forehead and even one that ejected over the gun and past my left shoulder.

Disappointing given how much effort I put into getting a used Glock that was supposed to be made prior to the ejection issue.

Other than that, it's a nice gun to shoot and a lot of fun with the big magazines. I'm going to hang onto and once a reliable fix is in I guess I'll pay to replace some parts.


One thing I always do when I get a used Glock is to replace all the springs and use new magazines. I would at least change the recoil spring and see if that solves your issue.




On another note do the newer m&p 9 still have some tendencies to auto forward? I have been wanting to try an m&p 9 but between the potential accuracy issues and the auto forwarding, I don't want to really take a gamble. It's a shame because I would love to use the CTC for the m&p pistols.

[Mickey]

On another note do the newer m&p 9 still have some tendencies to auto forward? I have been wanting to try an m&p 9 but between the potential accuracy issues and the auto forwarding, I don't want to really take a gamble. It's a shame because I would love to use the CTC for the m&p pistols.

My 5" pro does auto forward almost every time. it is however just as a accurate as my Glock 34.

[Hmac]

My 5" pro does auto forward almost every time. it is however just as a accurate as my Glock 34.

My M&P 9L auto-forwards almost every time too.

[Cylinder Head]

Greetings Cylinder Head,

Haven't seen you around the range lately.

I picked up the PPQ a while back and it's quickly working it's way up to my fav' plastic 9mm. As others have said, it's very accurate and easy to be accurate on. Excellent trigger. I am a huge fan of the Euro style mag release as well. Yes, it does have a bit more muzzle lift than the G19 and M&P, but it shoots very well and is manageable. Only real downside is that mags are pricey.

I find the M&P to have the least felt recoil, but I've never felt quite at home w/ it's ergo's and it's accuracy is ok, but not great. As an NJ'
er, I have to give props to S&W for making a 15rnd 9mm mag. I've installed the Apex sear, rounded the firing pin safety and polished all contact points internally. The trigger is now considerably better than it was. Just wish the accuracy was a little better.

I have a Gen2 and Gen3 G19. These pistols have been very reliable. I'm able to shoot these pistols a bit better than the M&P for slow fire accuracy, whereas repeat shots are a littel easier on the M&P. Triggers are stock w/ polished internals. I've tried various connectors / springs and have wound up at the stock configuration.

I have some other 9mm's (W. German Sig P226, wife's Beretta 92FS, Gen2 G17, G26, etc.). Lots of nice pistols, but I'm somewhere between the PPQ, M&P and G19. If I get the nerve up, I may try chopping the G17 to fit G19 mags. I think this might make a great pistol.

Hey buddy, thanks for the info. You haven't seen me because I moved to Colorado!

I will have to borrow someone's PPQ to run some rounds through it once I've mastered my M&P.

[Magic_Salad0892]

I've bought a lot of handguns and wasted a lot of money/time on too many platforms on the basis that Glocks were ugly and awkward to hold.

I eventually got fed up with all of them (they were all great, but they all couldn't fill all the roles; HD, CCW), but I ended up picking up a G19 G4 and I haven't been this happy.

Not a single issue, easy to replace parts, maintain, and very accurate. I'm not saying I'm a fanboy because it sure as hell is ugly, but it gets the job done.

All the others are kinda just stay in the safe now except for the 1911 which gets some play-time here and there.

With that said, my vote goes to the G19 Gen4.

Grip Force Adapter makes them even better.